“poorly judged and tasteless”

A couple of days ago I was presented with a copy of the Gown by a fairly outraged student, and I have to say that I wasn’t all that impressed by their attitude to a Queen’s student, no matter what he did or did not do, being found dead. Chekov isn’t impressed either.

  • Kinkyt in the aresa

    Rich, coming from the rag which represents the students who have turned the Holylands into a circus.

    A large proportion of the students in the area bring terror and criminal damage, rubbish, late night parties and foul mouthed abuse on the few permanent residents left in the area.

  • What do you expect from undergraduates at Northern Ireland’s premier university except ‘ill judged’ and ‘tasteless’….

  • Richard James

    Came across the article myself yesterday. Although I’m pretty sure the man concerned wasn’t a student.

  • Bertie

    Just like an average day on Slugger.

  • RepublicanStones

    God I miss Rugby Ave.

  • An Lochlannach

    This kind of thing is done to offend – like the racist jokes in the Rag Mag and the regular invites to David Irving / Nick Griffin et al. Every year someone apologises for the worst of the poision in the Rag Mag and promises it will never happen again….

  • fair_deal

    Maybe they want a job with the Sunday world

  • RG Cuan

    Is this actually a real story, or some kind of late, sick April Fools?

    It seems too hard to believe.

  • joeCanuck

    RGC

    The late April Fools joke was the blog yesterday on the N.I. flag, or lack thereof.
    Some people still haven’t got it.

  • jone

    Some scrote dies…people who had a bad experience of him not displeased…zzzzzz

  • PeaceandJustice

    RepublicanStones – “God I miss Rugby Ave.”
    Ah, reminiscing about the good old days at Queen’s? The only question is, does Rugby Avenue miss you? 🙂

  • It’s scarcely believable that RS has a university education. Where have we gone wrong as a society?

  • Rory

    It is also scarcely believable, Chekov, that, as you say in your own blog response to this story, that you are not “any longer a man in his twenties”. The strangulated, nervous pomposity of style with which you attempted to dress down rather than address the students had me convinced that you might indeed be a self-righteous but disappointed assistant manager of a small provincial bank from the 1920’s.

    You write in the style with which that fussy, prim but nasty little man, Bill Craig used to speak.

    I do not think it might work with the students, not that they are not callow but they are painfully conscious of style (or the distinct absence thereof).

  • You don’t like the style I wrote the piece in – woe is me. Do you think the piece in the student newspaper is justified?

  • Eddie

    Bill Craig wasn’t a little man. He was a fat man. Maybe still is

  • RepublicanStones

    Whats not ‘scarcely believable’ Cheekov is your immature post.

  • I don’t think it’s an immature post. I think it’s a serious point about falling standards.

  • PeaceandJustice

    Chekov – “It’s scarcely believable that RS has a university education. Where have we gone wrong as a society?”

    It’s a very good question. Many assume he only went to the Sinn Fein PIRA University of Death … I mean Life. As regards immature posts, well that is something RS does know about.

  • RepublicanStones

    Standards may have fallen alright Checkov, its just unfortunate that its within your P&J;’s own commutnity.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/article3566425.ece

    Ouch !

    Hows that for immature P&J;

  • McGrath

    This thread is reaching hadopelagic depths.

  • RS – they actually needed research to determine that? Christ there’s far too much money flowing about the public sector in this country.

  • Rory

    Ah! the good old Depths of Hadopelagia, a site visited by blogger tourists almost as frequently as the beautiful and renowned Heights of Foolishness.

  • joeCanuck

    From the tele article”
    `So in that sense, while you can’t talk starkly about winners and losers in the last decade in Northern Ireland, what you can do is point to a community on the Catholic side which has more uniformly enjoyed the benefits of the changes than has been the case on the Protestant side of the divide.”

    What a long winded roundabout way of writing a self-contradictory sentence.

  • Rory

    “Do you think the piece in the student newspaper is justified?”

    I really don’t have an opinion, Chekov. Students have ever been idiots – I was one myself – there is not much point in getting exercised by them thus demonstrating that one shares their immaturity.

  • PeaceandJustice

    To RS – The report states that “[Roman Catholics are] now more likely to have a degree than Protestants”.

    First of all, you should be calling for an inquiry into why young Protestants are not accessing University education at the expected levels. There could be many reasons e.g. Sinn Fein PIRA cultural intimidation at places like Queen’s.

    Secondly, an earlier post stated “It’s scarcely believable that RS has a university education”. The point being that if you are holding yourself up as an example of the university system, then is it worth having and what has gone wrong with that system?

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘The point being that if you are holding yourself up as an example of the university system’

    when was i doing this P&J;, i was merely feeling nostalgic for my time in the Holylands.

  • Queens Student

    Few Prods attend Queens because of RCs and Republicans. Queens have an image problem that they need to address.

    I know that there are Unionist groups in the University pushing the rights of prods and Unionists in the University, namely the Democratic Unionist Party.

    Take a walk around the Holylands after 1pm onwards and see who is causing the trouble. You can easily identify them by their football tops.

  • Queens Student has a point. The students in the Holy Land area do let the side down. There have even been TV documentaries on their contempt for the locals.
    Was this man frightened to death? Bouncers often have heart attacks as all the thugs want a piece of them. Standing up to an unruly mob of students night after night would not do the old ticker any good. And then to have these Tyrone thugs dsance on your grave.

    Of course, the other thing is: should people like this be at university at all? Maybe we should go back to the Doing Law or Doing Life days with more emphasis on the Doing Life stream. Then the Huns can get their old screw jobs back. Win-win.

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘And then to have these Tyrone thugs dsance on your grave.’

    Apologies Dave if i have missed it, but what is the beef with the Red Handers?(apart from the misappropriation of the symbol by certain undesireables)
    I didn’t see the greatest county in Ireland being lambasted anywhere in the story.

  • Brock

    As much as you would like to accuse students of immaturity in the case of this man in the holylands, let me point out a few things:
    1. This man had a history of drug taking and violence, as I, who live near the area, experienced as he threatened my flatmates and offered to “sort us out if we wanted something”.
    2. Its very well scolding the students for their attitude, but if your children had been subject to this influence, you too would be rejoucing as they would now feel safe.
    3. Finally, how narrow minded must you people be if you cannot construct an argument without resurrecting the past problems of tribalism in this country. Congraduation for proving to students that people like yourselves lack the capacity for constructive arguments, and therefore mean that students will continue to ignore whatever pleas you make.

  • Brock

    Oh and its statistically proven that young protestants dont access universitys in NI as their schools encourage them to go to England and they are less likely to return. There is a rising willingness in young Catholics to push for better jobs due to pressure by parents.

  • “This man had a history of drug taking and violence, as I, who live near the area, experienced as he threatened my flatmates and offered to “sort us out if we wanted something”.”

    That may well be the case, but the crux of the article isn’t to defend the man as is made perfectly clear. He may well have had a history of drug taking and violence and the law should have taken its course in protecting society against him. That is not justification for publicly celebrating his death. As for drug-taking and violence, I have lived in South Belfast for a good many years, and there are students who are guilty of both these things. I wouldn’t for a minute think that anyone should celebrate if a student who took drugs and engaged in vandalism or violence was found dead.

    “Its very well scolding the students for their attitude, but if your children had been subject to this influence, you too would be rejoucing as they would now feel safe.”

    I certainly would not be rejoicing. I would have more dignity and decency than to rejoice in someone’s death.

  • QUB undergrad

    Queens Student, let’s hear some examples of the “image problem” at Queens… you’re making it sound like Crossmaglen or something.

    I think if you took a survey of queens students, you’d find that most feel that the university is a neutral environment – to suggest that protestants are put off by the uni is RIDICULOUS. Obviously you’re just a protestant with a massive chip on your shoulder and feel “discriminated” against somehow…

    oh and the DUP and UUP at Queens are hardly “pushing the rights for prods” – becuase protestants are hardly disciminated against or denied any rights that Catholic students get… quit your little injustice fantasy and grow up.

  • Brock

    Point taken that the man did not deserve to have his death publically praised but you can understand the relief of a large group of young adults that the will not be subject to intimidation. You can complain that the article could have been written more compassionately, but the students relief you cannot measure or understand.

    As for the students taking drugs, you would not be so rigourous in your defence of this man had he been selling drugs in your area. Indeed, for your community and childrens sake you would be glad to get rid of him. His death as a person and father was not desirable, but the end of the drug dealer was.

  • blinkers

    brock, i know of a few students in that area who deal e and speed every weekend…will u celebrate their deaths too if, god forbid, anything happens to them. you are one sick cU_nt trying to justify this. a bit like pete baker rejoicing at republican deaths.

  • “You can complain that the article could have been written more compassionately, but the students’ relief you cannot measure or understand.”

    I’m not sure that it should have been written at all. And I don’t buy the line as propounded by Rory et al that students shouldn’t know any better. I’m fairly certain that at 18-19 people are quite aware that trumpeting someone’s death on the front of a newspaper as a boon for the community is not appropriate.

    “As for the students taking drugs, you would not be so rigourous in your defence of this man had he been selling drugs in your area. Indeed, for your community and childrens sake you would be glad to get rid of him. His death as a person and father was not desirable, but the end of the drug dealer was.”

    I’m not defending the man. I’ve made that perfectly clear. Again I stress that I do not know what this man did, but if a drug-dealer in my area had died, whilst I might feel that the area would not be damaged by his loss, I would prefer if he had been dealt with by the law and I certainly would remain compassionate enough not to wish his death transparently celebrated on the front page of a newspaper. Did the newspaper attempt to expose the alleged misdemeanours of the man before he died? If so there was certainly no indication of this in the article. The tenor seemed to be, he’s dead and now we can say what we like. It is a cowardly article.

  • ’18-19 year olds’ rather than people.

  • Aldous Duke

    “I have to say that I wasn’t all that impressed by their attitude to a Queen’s student, no matter what he did or did not do, being found dead.”

    This is confusing, the dead man was not a Queen’s student Michael.

    Describing the article as ‘trumpeting’ a death is hardly fair, of the 2 quotes which seem to be offending, one is from a HC judge familiar with Arbuckle, the other is from a student who also knew him. The fact she describes relief HAD she STILL lived in the street is shocking in itself and testament to the grip he had on the area rather than a general desire among students to purge residents from the Holylands, which is the manner some seemed to have framed this issue within.

    As for the police, even when they did bother to arrest him, he was soon back out again with wrists lightly slapped if at all. I’m sorry for those hurt by his death, but i am also tired of the need to eulogise and forget all sins once someone dies. It was news! For students, who are continually portrayed as the problem in the area, covering an intimidating presence who in sad circumstances is gone.

    The area has become a dumping ground for rehoused criminals who won’t be taken elsewhere, including sex offenders. Here we are, another week, another rape, this time Botanic Gardens. The small no. of students who are anti-social in respect of noise do not make the area the dangerous place it is to live in.

  • Aldous Duke

    “Did the newspaper attempt to expose the alleged misdemeanours of the man before he died? If so there was certainly no indication of this in the article”

    I will direct you back to the article. I think people should actually READ or RE-READ it before passing judgment.

  • AD

    “The fact she describes relief HAD she STILL lived in the street is shocking in itself and testament to the grip he had on the area rather than a general desire among students to purge residents from the Holylands, which is the manner some seemed to have framed this issue within.”

    That is certainly not the way that I have framed the matter and it’s not the way Michael has framed it either as far as I can tell. The issue for me is simply an inappropriate article which used the occasion of a man’s death to trumpet his demise as a boon for the community and repeat unsubstantiated allegations about him. The fact that the quote you mention was not attributed and came from someone who no longer lives in Jerusalem Street just about sums up the article.

    “As for the police, even when they did bother to arrest him, he was soon back out again with wrists lightly slapped if at all. I’m sorry for those hurt by his death, but i am also tired of the need to eulogise and forget all sins once someone dies. It was news! For students, who are continually portrayed as the problem in the area, covering an intimidating presence who in sad circumstances is gone.”

    Firstly no-one is suggesting that this man should have been eulogised or forgiven. Neither should his death have been celebrated by a front page spread under the headline chosen by The Gown. Secondly the article did not in any respect convey that there were any ‘sad circumstances’ in the man’s death whatsoever.

    “The area has become a dumping ground for rehoused criminals who won’t be taken elsewhere, including sex offenders. Here we are, another week, another rape, this time Botanic Gardens. The small no. of students who are anti-social in respect of noise do not make the area the dangerous place it is to live in.”

    That is another issue altogether and one that students have the right to raise. Was this man a convicted sex offender? If he was it might be appropriate to discuss the issue of sex crime in an article about him. If he wasn’t, then tacking on a discussion of sex crime in an article concerned with his death is making a connection that is not actually there.

    “I will direct you back to the article. I think people should actually READ or RE-READ it before passing judgment.”

    I have read it and reread it. It does not mention anywhere that allegations were made in the paper about this man before his death. On the contrary a box informs us that attacks on cars were reported in the paper, but that the allegations made in the latest article were not included in that previous story.