“We need to make an example of this particular incident..”

Interesting interjection by DUP MLA Jim Wells, and one I entirely agree with, on the felling of a number of protected trees in a private estate on the outskirts of Newcastle, County Down. One for the Northern Ireland Minister for the Environment, the DUP’s Arlene Foster, to ponder.. As the Woodland Trust spokesman says,

Patrick Craig from the Woodland Trust said: “We’re just absolutely appalled that yet again some more native trees have been destroyed.

“The legislation is very, very strong, but unfortunately when it comes to enforcement, there doesn’t seem to be the willingness or ability of anybody to actually enforce those protection orders.”

Also from the BBC report

A DOE spokesperson said: “Planning Service can confirm that investigations into a possible breach of planning control in the Bryansford area of Newcastle are ongoing, however we cannot comment on the details of the investigation at this stage.”

A possible breach?

, , ,

  • Mark McGregor

    And maybe they’ll start to care about the some of the last street trees being removed in West Belfast when? When the area suits? It was in the papers too.

  • Turgon

    Am I correct in saying that in GB one requires some form of statutory permission to cut trees down? Here is seems possible to cut practically any trees down that one wants to. My mother used to have great fun ordering various people who offered to cut our trees down off the premises.

  • Pete Baker

    Did those trees also have a protection order, Mark?

    A link to any reports would help.

  • Mark McGregor

    Pete,

    One of the two incidents in West Belfast this week did involve a protection order, behind the Balmoral Hotel, the other was on Finaghy Road without local consultation under DRD instruction.

    Both were reported in the ATN but we shouldn’t allow that to damage the credibility of a story needlessly.

  • Pete Baker

    Mark

    Feel free to add links to those incidents, rather than to imply bias against those incidents.

  • Gregory

    “And maybe they’ll start to care about the some of the last street trees being removed in West Belfast when? When the area suits? It was in the papers too”

    I came out one day to find a Pol Pot committee talking about removing my lovely big tree for being too tree-like.

    Kids used it to shelter from the rain. So it had to die by order of the group-think Gauleiters. The bloody indignity of it all.

    G.

  • Steve

    lol trees is just big weeds and they interfere with the enjoyment of a prairie vista

    I have killed a couple thousand myself, I am sure there are more in my future

  • Gregory

    You Canadian or something? I’ve watched South Park, I don’t trust you people, you want to steal America from God’s people.

  • Harry Flashman

    Did I read correctly on a “private” estate, in other words the trees were someone’s property?

    I do appreciate that posters on Slugger love being peons of the Gub’mint, but trees are just large lumps of wood, if they are privately owned then get stuffed and mind your own business

  • Gregory

    Property is theft.

  • Gregory

    In West Belfast it will soon be stolen in any case.

  • Danny O’Connor

    perhaps Jim will get some help from his colleague,the MP for east Antrim on the issue ,but given Sammy’s track record on environmental issues,I doubt it.

  • The Raven

    Harry

    They were native trees. Not your usual conifer types. Even that aside, this region is the least wooded in Europe, with a paltry 6% against the 36% for the latter. It’s for reasons like this that TPOs are put on certain trees.

    Not that I am sure you are really very worried about silly little things like the natural environment.

    Doubtless, they have been felled to make way for yet another estate of second homes for chip-eaters in one of our coastal areas.

    I believe the trees surrounded, or were in the grounds of, a listed building? Doubtless, this estate will be built so close to that building it will be ultimately be de-listed, and no quicker than you can say “Bryant & May” a piece of built heritage will be gone, as quickly as the environmental bit did. Please note this paragraph is merely conjecture on my part. Any contributors who are aware of the site? I’d like to hear more.

    Mark, interested to hear about the incidents in West Belfast – take care though – many urban trees are felled simply because they are past their sell-by date. Even the Dark Hedges near Armoy and the Frosses fall into that category. Several of the posher streets in East and South Belfast have also suffered this fate, for no reason other than public health and safety. But then I believe that is the excuse that the developer in THIS particular story also gave.

    Personally? I hope he gets screwed to the full financial letter of the law. £30,000 PER TREE is the figure. I understand – though stand to be corrected – that around 100 trees were felled.

    Folks, I’ve said it before, and doubtless will have to say it again: when it’s gone, it’s gone. So in the week when the RSPB’s survey has postulated ANOTHER 20% drop in birdlife across the UK (and let’s face it – the Brits look after their built and natural environment much better than we ever do) I’m giving a big shout out in favour of TPOs and the retention of PPS14 as well.

    In the meantime, our Environment Minister is minded to…well…do not very much at all, it seems.

  • Steve

    Greg

    Yes I am CANADIAN LOL

    We are quite used to being blamed by americans as per South Park

    So if the Irish need some one to blame we have broad shoulders, besides we can always go enjoy our trees when it gets too much

  • Gregory

    I know all about Canada, I was asked to target your exotic dancer clubs, filthy things.

    I never make generalizations, but I thought you were all commies, some more dangerous than others. Barb wire needed etc.

    Other than that, you were just fine.

    G.

  • willis

    Interesting concept Harry

    Where does the ownership bit end? Animals? Children?

    And I thought you were a conservative!

  • TreesRUs

    The property was purchased about 12 months ago by a well known NI developer of significant wealth.

    The initial Tree Protection Order was granted on a temporary six month period and expired on 17th March. A new 12 month order was granted but did not come into effect until 18th/19th March. It is understood that persons within Downpatrick planning dept notified the owner and tipped them off about the gap in the order and the loophole this gap represented.

    The trees run from the property down to the Shimna river which a native Irish salmon spawning river. These trees are act as an important canopy to the breeding grounds.

    Clearing the tree’s means that the entire site now has full views of the area’s money shot i.e. the mts of mourne.

    Even if the owner is fined at £30,000 a tree they will view this as acceptable on the basis that the site is now cleared and can now be extensively redeveloped. The removal of one tree opens up another site with a potential value of £200,000 a site..

  • willis

    TreesRUs

    That’s more like it. Exactly the reason why this board is a lot more use than the MSM.

  • The Penguin

    Just wondering when Finaghy Road was moved to west Belfast as implied somewhere above.

    Anyway, God knows the said Mr Wells is far removed from my cup of tea politically, but he has an outstanding record and reputation on environmental issues, and has been lobbying from long before the issue ever came even close to being fashionable.

    I know some people who vote for him on this basis alone, and I have to say I can’t really blame them.

  • Former Idiot

    Regarding Finaghy road, if the tree removal being talked about is where I think, it was at the bridge over the railway. To the best of my knowledge, this is in South Belfast from a parliamentary POV.

  • RepublicanStones

    i think the worst case of moronic tree felling in recent years has to be the removal of the trees from O’Connell St in Dublin. Fair enough they have got the Phoenix Park, but a little greenery in a busy street is always welcome.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Must say this tree luvving movement is so old, it was invented in Glasgow just before the Papal visit of 1982. It’s champion was an extraordinary man, apparently he fell out with Paisley over minor scriptural matters;

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/27/db2702.xml

    Oh and that’s me up at the back near the high flats;

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4421461.stm

  • Prince Eoghan

    Naw that’s no me, picture 4!

  • “It is understood that persons within Downpatrick planning dept notified the owner and tipped them off about the gap in the order and the loophole this gap represented.”

    Will the Minister or her Committee be ‘minded’ to investigate this allegation?

  • darth rumsfeld

    Don’t knock Canada
    The world’s greatest right wing polemicist, Mark Steyn, is Canadian (er.. though he lives in Vermont)

  • Eoghan, are inveterate tree huggers barking mad or just informers for the Special Branch?

  • Steve

    we always export our right wing nuts

    and like almost every great thing in the states…..they got it from Canada. its a good thing they have such excelent neighbours

  • Harry Flashman

    *Don’t knock Canada
    The world’s greatest right wing polemicist, Mark Steyn, is Canadian (er.. though he lives in Vermont)*

    And he’s currently being dragged through the star chamber that is known as the Canadian Human Rights Commission for having the temerity to express opinions that the government doesn’t approve of.

    Canada, what a nasty little country.

    Back on topic, so the private property in question was not subject to any preservation order at the time when the owner of said private property disposed of it according to his own wishes.

    Case closed.

    As I said above, get stuffed and mind your own business.

    You want to have rights over another man’s private property? No problem, buy it off him, otherwise bog off and hug your own trees.

  • The Raven

    Harry

    If the current levels of woodland mirrored those which are across Europe as a whole, I’d be the first to agree with you. But they don’t. You aren’t, by any chance, Seymour Sweeney?

    By the way, you say “You want to have rights over another man’s private property?” State already does. The lodge is listed. That didn’t come from the local W.I. There’s planning permission. Building Control. Lots of little things like that. Your argument is a non-sequiter, and frankly in this case, just trollish.

    I hope this guy gets well and truly butt-fucked. He is symptomatic of the piss-poor environmentally-challenged private sector in this region.

    TreesRus

    Did the developer pull the trees down during the loophole dates? UNless I picked this up incorrectly, there was a two day window, yet he seems to have done this outside of the dates…?

    Also, I doubt very much if any judge would be lax enough to say “Oh you did on those two day? Oh that’s ok then”. The developer knew the notice would be renewed and yet pulled the trees down in full knowledge of this? That ain’t gonna stand.

  • joeCanuck

    Care to explain how a country can be nasty, Harry.
    Or are you just taking man (and woman) playing to an extreme?

  • TreesRUs

    The owner/developer commenced his destruction on the 26th March around 7am and was still pulling down trees at 11.30pm that night.

    They parked their vans over the entrance to block access throughout the day to police, planners, reports etc.

    The owner/developer is a very wealthy man whose family own an estate agency in Newry (some might say it is the best agency in Newry – it may well bee or it may not bee) and have a large development company that have extensive properties throughout England and Dublin.

    This property was purchased for £3.5m some 12 months ago at the peak. A neighboring property was purchased around the same time for £6m and resold 6 months later for £8m. Its believed the TPO effectively made the redevelopment a non starter and the market conditions prevented a flip on meaning potentially a significant loss to the developer (£2m).

    This was a blatant act of destruction to make this property more commercially viable, persons in the planning dept are involved in this tip off and one would suspect what their motivations are..

  • Harry Flashman

    In what way am I taking “man playing” joe?

    Is Canada a man now?

    I make my assertion about Canada’s nastiness as a result of following the kafkaesque censorship laws which are enshrined in Canadian law to allow the Canadian government to suppress dissenting thought.

    I dislike such censorship in China, I hate it in Russia and I loathe it in Cuba and when I discover that kangaroo courts can operate in Canada to suppress free thought I am entitled to my opinion that a country which would allow such a travesty of free political expression is a nasty country.

    If Canadians want to rejoin the community of nations which support the idea of freedom of expression than they can abolish their despotic censorship courts, until such time I am entitled to my opinion that Canada is a nasty society (note “entitled to my opinion”, it appears to be an alien concept in modern day Canada).

    As regards the trees, here’s my point; trees can be planted and can grow again, believe me, the last time I checked there were an awful lot of trees out there. However civil and social liberties once surrendered to the state can never be brought back.

    Far too many people in wee Norn Iron have an inbuilt, illiberal, “the government should do something” attitude. If the trees belong to this man and he has broken no law (though what the hell the state is doing telling a private individual how he can dispose of his own property defeats me – you want the trees? Fine, buy the feckin’ things or leave the free born citizen the hell alone) then it is of fuck all concern to the posters on Slugger O’Toole what the man does with his own property.

    As for the idiot poster above who seemed to believe that trees equate to human children I can only suggest he go and boil his head.

  • Gregory

    “Regarding Finaghy road, if the tree removal being talked about is where I think, it was at the bridge over the railway. To the best of my knowledge, this is in South Belfast from a parliamentary POV.”

    Yes it is, though fights between SDLP election canvassers turned it into a no-go area for a while.

    I wrestled one SDLPer to the ground as he lunged at another with a packet of sandwiches. If I’d had a piece on me (pun itended) I would have just capped the sucker.

  • Gregory

    “Eoghan, are inveterate tree huggers barking mad or just informers for the Special Branch?”

    Environmentalism is not like SF, it is possible to rise through the ranks without being a tout.

  • The Raven

    I’m not sure to whom Harry refers to with regard to tree/children thing. But it was not I, so I can only assume he’s referring to TreesRus.

    It’s very easy to bury your head in the sand on this, Harry. But I would suggest to you that when you do, and you cut your head because it’s full of human detritus, old breeze blocks and hazardous materials, you may think differently.

    Easy to write off any concern for the environment as tree-hugging, isn’t it? I’ll bet you’re the sort of person who believes nuclear energy is a good thing, and that all those clusters of leukemia in proximity to Sellafield were “coincidence”.

    Certainly the trees can be planted again. But if they are forming a part of a localised eco-system, there’s not much point. Anyway, the land will have already been built upon for second home owning chip eaters. I hope that clarifies for you the statement, “when it’s gone, it’s gone.”

    I’ll write it again for the hard of understanding, Harry: “You want to have rights over another man’s private property?” The State already does. The lodge is listed. Listing has been around since the 1960’s. There’s planning permission to gain; this has been around since the 1950’s. Building Control to satisfy – building control has been around in one form or another since the Great Fire of London. People have not had rights over the building purposes of their land for decades. And rightly so.

    Your argument is a non-sequiter, and just trollish. But given your past form, Harry, that seems to be as far as informed debate ever runs with you.

  • willis

    Harry

    “However civil and social liberties once surrendered to the state can never be brought back.”

    Absolute Boll***s

    But then the hyperbolic exaggeration is no stranger to you my friend.

    Head Boiler.

  • Gregory

    The state can do what it wants, you need to own the National Gallery or something before you can turn billet hungry troops away.

    Before WWI ( I think) they discussed cutting down *all* the trees to make acetone for munitions.

    Me no chemist, so go easy on me.

    G.

  • The Raven

    TreeRus – thanks for the clarification by the way. In addition to the potential loss you mentioned, I’d like to add that the full force of the law, with £30k per tree, over 100 trees, would take another £3m from his already depleted wallet.

    That old “last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned” Cree proverb springs to mind. I hope this developer likes his money crispy…

  • The Raven

    Greg…environmentally, at least, things have come on, *just* a tad since then.

  • Gregory

    “Greg…environmentally, at least, things have come on, *just* a tad since then.”

    Just give me time to read up on it.

    There is a wierd thing, my tree is still there in the magnified view of those satelite maps. Do you reckon ‘he who must be obeyed’ called up NASA or somebody and said “use archive stuff or Curleys will stop advertising on the side of your space ships”?

    G.

  • Gregory, tree .. bark .. branch. Twigged it? 😉

  • Gregory

    I don’t think I have quite twigged it.

    You mean ‘somebody’ asked SF to whack my tree because I exposed CEOP’s porn-fest?

    UK Government Caught at “Child Protection” Conference with Porn Industry

    By Terry Vanderheyden

    BELFAST, November 16, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) – A Northern Ireland Assemblyman is condemning a British government MP for attending a “child protection” conference at a Belfast hotel known for its purveyance of pay-per-view pornography, an industry that is often guilty of trafficking in women and underage girls.

    Well, the Castle spooks will not sit still for being brought to notice by uppity taigs.

    On the other hand you may have completely lost me, but don’t worry about that, you won’t be the first. I can be as dumb as anything at times.

    I liked your web-site by the way. The Carrickarede Rope Bridge is a big hit with my US coleagues, I have to find them things to do when they’re not up at Stormont or whatever.

    All the best

    G.

  • Gregory

    “In addition to the potential loss you mentioned, I’d like to add that the full force of the law, with £30k per tree, over 100 trees, would take another £3m from his already depleted wallet.”

    In Hampstead, I think they can take a lot of cash from a person who does a tree wrong if the tree is protected.

    G.

  • Mark McGregor

    I could be wrong but I thought the railway was the boundary for the Ladybrook ward which falls into West Belfast, I’m open to correction as others disagree.

  • Gregory

    Is Appleton Park SB as well? I seem to recall the Reverend Martin Smyth MP having to do their stuff? Orchardville is SB, Ardmore also, I never canvassed (for the UUP) over the railway bridge though. I did Stockmans Lane, and Diamond Gardens etc.

  • Harry Flashman

    Oh Christ, Cree proverbs, lord lift me out of it!

    So that’s the standard of debate, jesus wept.

  • The Raven

    No, the debate ended two or three posts up.

    The bit where you postulated that the State has no rights over what you do with your property, and then I went back to around 1600 to underline the fact that you’re just a silly arse, who most likely lives in a bungalow in Helen’s Bay, and has nothing more to do than troll on subjects you have little worthy opinion on?

    That’s where it ended.

  • Steve

    Harry

    to put it plainly you are full of shit

    Canada has one of the strongest free speach rights in the world

    But neither the government nor the people will stand for hate speach

    we don’t allow nazik’s to advocate the murder of jews or skin heads on blacks

    I havent a clue who this person is but if the governmet is prosecuting him I am more than confident that he is deserving of censorship

    Complete freedom of speach is total bullshit but post here exactly why this man deserves protection and why he is being persecuted instead of just spouting bile

  • Steve

    Steyn reported on 1st March 2008 that the Ontario Human Rights Commission had declined to hear the suit against Maclean’s.[19] In Ontario, the Human Rights Code specifically prohibits the Commission from “interfer[ing] with the freedom of expression of opinion.[20]

    So harry in Steyn’s own words you are full of shit, so apologize before you lose all credibility

  • willis

    I think Harry’s problem is that there isn’t a Cree proverb which says

    “When the white man comes just hand everything over, especially the trees. It will be better for you in the long run.”

  • Prince Eoghan

    Nevin

    >>Eoghan, are inveterate tree huggers barking mad or just informers for the Special Branch?<

  • Harry Flashman

    *you’re just a silly arse,*

    *to put it plainly you are full of shit*

    Ah such wit, such erudition, my what devastating rebuttals! Good to see that the man playing rule is alive and well and being fully abused on this thread.

    Let’s deal with the towering intellectual steve first shall we? It’s usually a good rule of thumb steve old chum that when you as you yourself admit “haven’t a clue” about a subject not to allege that someone who does actually know what he’s talking about is “full of shit”.

    Steyn is not a nazi, he’s a perfectly legitimate commentator for a leading Canadian magazine who are both being prosecuted in several star chambers (one, and only one, of the HRC’s has declined to pursue his prosecution) for his having the temerity to express opinions that the government disapproves of.

    In the course of this prosecution the accuser gets to have his legal fees paid for but the defendent has to pay for their own defence. The particular law invoked has so far had a 100% conviction rate and half of the cases have been brought by one man, a former employee of the HRC who has got very rich indeed out of these cases.

    In the course of another case it has been proven (despite the efforts of the HRC to cover it up) that several HRC staff have joined Nazi organisations in order to plant evidence that they then use to convict.

    If you believe that constitutes free speech in Canada then I am afraid sir it is clearly you that is full of the excrement.

    Your asinine statement “if the governmet is prosecuting him I am more than confident that he is deserving of censorship” shows that you know nothing about civil liberties, freedom of speech and censorship, you are in short a government lickspittle who would join the queues for the”showers” giving your passive little bleats and apologising to the state troopers for your thought crimes.

    For the full details see “Canada vs Free Speech” in “steynonline.com”.

  • Harry Flashman

    You might also want to check out this article in Der Sturmer, oh sorry the National Post;

    “http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=391873&p=1”

    Cut and paste the webpage, I still don’t get the hang of this link posting thing.

  • Harry Flashman

    Now to the trees, my point is a simple one; there is too much infantilising of debate when it comes to environmental issues.

    Let me make it plain; trees are not some sort of Disneyfied mystical beings, they are big lumps of wood with leaves on them and we’ve been knocking them down since time immemorial. They’ve provided fuel for our homes, timber to build ships and houses and even paper to spread literacy, we have dragged ourselves out of the caves and swamps by cutting down trees, believe it or not folks they grow again!

    Furthermore, the societies that have been knocking down trees when they felt it was necessary are the exact same societies that are today the most advanced, progressive, best educated, healthiest, longest living and cleanest on planet earth, Northern Ireland along with the rest of western Europe fall into this category.

    Societies that worship trees and rocks tend to have a life expectancy of 35 and most of their children don’t make it to their fifth birthday, you don’t hear so many proverbs from the Crees today you may have noticed.

    I am a fan of the human race, I like human progress. I dislike smug, self satisfied beneficiaries of that same human progress (posters here) pretending that they would rather live in buckskin loincloths around campfires singing hymns to mother Earth. They’re being hypocritical “silly arses”.

    Another element in human development has been the hard won and long fought for rights of the citizen against the state, as well as the right of a citizen to enjoy ownership of his property free from the whimsical fiats of the state.

    Now if these trees were so goddamned precious the government could have bloody well bought them and turned the area into a national park, the posters of sluggerotoole could have had a whip around to pay for this, but they didn’t. Instead they purse their lips like anal retentive nannies and demand that the government tell some person what he does with his own property.

    Cheap, self-satisfied hypocrites tend to get my dander up.

    Maybe the trees are lovely, maybe the developer is a brutish philistine, but when I hear the nanny statists get on their high horse I reach for my chain saw and let ‘er rip.

  • Steve

    the human rights commision of Canada investigates only complaints that are filed with them

    And have you considered that the reason for upholding nearly 100% of those cases that are taken as far as a trial is that they only prosecute those cases that are in violation of their rules and in cases like Steyn they Refuse to prosecute frivolous cases

  • willis

    Harry

    My heartfelt thanks.

    There was me considering a future of tree and rock worship but just in time I read your wise words and reconsidered.

    I had not previously thought that we were discussing primitive religion, rather the extraordinary capacity of certain individuals to flout the law.

    Perhaps you would like to congratulate these other rugged libertarians.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=548431&in_page_id=1770

  • cynic

    “Will the Minister or her Committee be ‘minded’ to investigate this allegation?”

    …or even better will she investigate why a gap was allowed to develop, who allowed it, why they allowed it and will she ensure that suitable disciplinary action is taken to discourage them from doing it again.

  • Gregory

    I’m on the Liberal Party’s list of public enemies in Canada, I suspect they’ll skip the Human Rights Commission approach and arrange a boating accident instead.

  • Gregory

    Ezra Levant’s magazine (Western Standard) helped me out with the Pettigrew issue.

    He was also brought up in front of the Commission for publishing the Danish cartoons.

    “I’m not going to try to minimise what I’ve done and beg for mercy,” he told the BBC News website. “I have the right to violate all those Koranic precepts because we follow Queen Elizabeth’s law, not Muhammad’s law.”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7273870.stm

    Which is a position I suppose.

    G.

  • NP

    Mark Steyn : isnt he one of DAVID ICKE’s lizards ?

  • Harry Flashman

    Steve, let me help you here, Steyn is being prosecuted, only one court declined to pursue the complaint the other three are prosecuting him.

    Clear enough for you so far?

    Good, let us continue, you say no frivolous complaints get prosecuted, you believe only nazis get prosecuted, you say nothing about the shocking abuse of legal process whereby state officials planted evidence against these ‘nazis’, I mean if they’re such a danger why the need to make stuff up?.

    So the restaurant owner who was prosecuted and fined for asking a vagrant not to smoke dope in his doorway, he was a nazi was he?

    The plastic surgeon who declined to carry out a labiaplasty on a transsexual on the reasonable grounds that he’d never worked on transsexuals before, he was a nazi too?

    And Ezra Levant, the only editor in the civilised world to face prosecution for publishing the Danish cartoons, is he a nazi? Look at his name again and tell me whether a man called Ezra Levant is likely to be a nazi?

    Canada presents herself to the world as the shining beacon of freedom and liberty (especially in relation to her southern neighbour). Unfortunately the nasty suppurating herpes sores all over her lips called the “Human Rights” Courts, would indicate that Canada has quite a few ugly secrets that she would prefer the rest of us not to know about.

    Try a little research steve, read about these cases, don’t just swallow the government propaganda, find out the truth, your country abuses civil, religious and press freedoms, it’s ugly and you should be thoroughly ashamed of what your government is doing.

  • willis

    Harry

    I took your advice and read up a little on these cases.

    Maybe you should too.

    Mark Steyn writes very wittily and with considerable self-deprecation, useful qualities when you are expressing a forthright opinion. As he writes here:

    http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/1023/128/

    There are 2 cases outstanding against him. So at last we can quantify your exaggeration. 50%

    Some readers may find this letter helpful in providing balance and maybe even a few facts in some of the other cases you highlighted.

    http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/resources/news/globedop

  • Gregory

    Picking on ordinary people and ruining their business in set-up style charges, is a bit below the belt.

    It is so ultra-PC, like that lottery grant that didn’t happen because the lifeboat wasn’t rescuing enough gay people.

    G.

  • The Raven

    “Let me make it plain; trees are not some sort of Disneyfied mystical beings, they are big lumps of wood with leaves on them and we’ve been knocking them down since time immemorial. believe it or not folks they grow again!

    But only if there is somewhere left for them to grow. And that’s where you stumbled, fell, and ended up in shite the first time round. Read up on it. Take a look around. You may actually learn something.

    The amount of land that is use-able for native tree forestation in this country is down to around 10 percent. This stuff doesn’t grow like the Ministry Men’s favourite weed, conifers.

    The state doesn’t have to step in and buy. It put TPOs on the land. This guy will, with a bit of luck, get screwed royally by the planners. And slap it up him.

    Some of us do pay, and pay heftily. We pay to belong to organisations like the Woodland Trust.

    We don’t wish to live in loinskins. We want to see sustainable development. Again, look it up. It’s the reason PPS14 is in place, and hopefully why the majority of it will stay. Sustainable development is the reason they are installing the tidal turbine in Strangford this week. Just so silly arses like you can leave your PC on stand-by over night.

    We don’t save trees for the craic or because they are “Disneyfied”. Did you read the first post from TreesRus? Did you note the part where he mentioned the salmon run? It’s called interdependency. When we cut down all the native trees, we do more than just clear sites for chipeater bungalows. Again, if you can access it from your Helen’s Bay bungalow, check out EHS’s annual bio-diversity report.

    If you feel that a 20% increase in the number of red-listed species in this region alone is acceptable, who am I to make you look less of a fool…?

  • willis

    The Raven

    Good stuff. Though to be fair to Harry – he lives a lot closer to Botany Bay than Helen’s Bay.

    At this point can I recommend a bit of work I did in a previous life.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/schools/11_16/ks3geography/nonswf/ecosystems/ecosystems.shtml

  • Harry Flashman

    Yes, willis I did think that it’s a bit rich for someone to call me an idiot when he makes a clown of himself twice accusing me of living in a town in which I never set foot, but I didn’t pick it up because small little issues don’t actually matter to the larger point.

    In the same way that it doesn’t matter whether Steyn was orinally arraigned before two or three provincial HRC courts as well the federal one before one dropped out when my blindingly obvious point is that he shouldn’t be prosecuted by any damned court whatsoever for exercising his legitimate rights as a journalist.

    Not too complicated I’d have thought.

    Have a read of what one of the chief instigators in these cases wrote about a leading black politician, Ann Cools, in one of the websites that then got prosecuted by him for what he had himself written (!):

    “Cools don’t belong in our Senate

    Not only is Canadian Senator Anne Cools a Negro, she is also an immigrant! And she is also one helluva preachy c*nt. She does NOT belong in my Canada. My Anglo-Germanic people were here before there was a Canada and her kind have jumped in, polluted our race, and forced their bull**** down our throats. Time to go back to when the women n**ger imports knew their place…And that place was NOT in public!”

    What is odd about this is that the politician in question is a conservative one who had recently spoken out against same sex marriage, and the person who planted the comment after she spoke out against it and who prosecuted based on the comment (and is the plaintiff in half the cases, which have a 100% conviction rate) just happens to be a leading public proponent of gay marriage.

    Hmmmm, stinks to high heaven in my opinion but keep on trying to defend the system that meant Canada was the only so called free society on earth that prosecuted a editor for publishing the Mohammed cartoons.

    Free speech in Canada? My arse.

  • Gregory

    The problem the gays had Amsterdam, was that they were so few. In Britain, to describe them as not terribly numerous would be to over-state their demographic.

    This was of course before the days when Blairite stats could turn a million immigrants into 15,000.

    The best way to prevent gay marriage is perhaps to make it a crime to do it more than once, international, same-gender revolutionary, campaign tourism bigamy.

    The politics is about winning, it is not about whether there is a market for the benefits being wrestled from a dazed society.

    Foreigners take lead in Toronto same-sex weddings
    Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:21 PM EDT148

    TORONTO (Reuters) – In the city that was home to Canada’s first legalized gay wedding — and the host of the country’s biggest and brashest Pride Week celebrations — so far this year only one marriage license has been issued to a Canadian same-sex couple.’

    When San Francisco, New Orleans and everywhere in between has to be dragged to Toronto to do weddings, it gets to the stage folks are being married two or three times.

    It is surely funny, it is possibly proof that gay rights is the most successful public relations engine in history, it is not however authentic sexual liberation. Nope, faith, family, patriarchy, that’s all to be destroyed.

    It is of course most certainly a business. When I think back to the COC era in the Netherlands when homophile integration was abandoned, one of the reasons was the cash from pornography, gay-bars, prostitution and narcotics,

    I mean when do the IRA/ETA/FARC stop robbing banks? The thing about revolution, and this works for sexual liberation, and Human Rights Commissions is that it is frequently habit forming, and the money is useful.

  • Gregory

    “At this point can I recommend a bit of work I did in a previous life.”

    I cycled into the 3rd(?) Lock on the Lagan Valley Towpath, the cops at Castlereagh were unable to find it, it is right beside the lock-keepers cottage and new center that was built.

    I trashed a new cycle, wrecked the lights, and the PSNI (Castlereagh) were telling me that although it is in their area, they’ve not responded to anything there since 1959.

    (which is always good to know if one is planning a clandestine meeting of some kind.)

    They tried to bump it over to the Lisburn Road who they thought might have a map. I also done the wheels of a road bike in leafleting for the UUP on New Forge Lane, so I only use hybrids or mountin bikes on the route now.

    I also figure gay people plant a lot of conifers. However the tree debris that chews up cycles will be of the more desirable kind, I’m up for any type of tree,

    I think I’ve mentioned that one of the SF’s more recent acts of landscaping was to whack the big one in my garden.

    So Squinter gor off light in some respects, he could have been chainsawed, or invited to one of their group-think meetings.

    SF would like Canada.

    G.

  • Here’s a 1742 lease for the townland of Ballyallaght, parish of Billy, which details the number of trees that had to be planted during the duration of the lease and the default penalty imposed. The tree choices were ash, oak, sycamore or elm.

  • bunnie

    It is not clear that there was any gap in the TPO. Even if there is question mark over TPO the tree felling commenced well after 18th March. It actually commenced at 7am on Wednesday 26th and ended at approx 11.30pm on Thursday. The police visited the site at around 3pm on Wednesday but did not stop the felling. There was a breach of the law ongoing and no steps were made to prevent it. If it had been some kid on teh street breaking windows he would have been arrested. I believe the planning office also visited as did Jim Wells but no one stopped it happening. By Friday morning the site was quiet. Even the birds were quiet – obviously off looking for new habitat. Badgers, red squirrels, foxes and even a few deer (these animals really do live in gardens such as these) – all gone.

    We have few areas of natural beauty and teh views from teh Mournes are ruined by sites along this area in Newcastle scarred by overdevelopment.

    The fine for breach of a TPO is unlimited. The £30k only applies if the case is before a magistrates court and it is not clear if it is £30k per tree or per order. If it goes to High Court the fine is unlimited and finacial benefit is a consideatoin. The developer shoudl be fined a figure whihc outweighs the benefit from teh felling plus a penalty in other words £3 to £4million.

    This is environmental carnage. It is illegal and the law must be enforced against the rich – it always is against the poor and disenfranchised.

  • JCB2003

    Harry

    May I suggest you enrol in Anger Management therapy. Open your eyes and witness the environmental destruction caused, by amongst other crimes, the felling of protected trees. Are you sure you’re a native earth dweller . . sounds more like you’ve just landed from Mars seeking the company of your fellow “brutish philistines”!