Flag wars in Kilrea

I was brought up quite near Kilrea which contrary to some people’s views is not actually noted for particularly good community relations. The latest problem has been the “tit for tat” flying of flags. Apparently this episode began when the Irish tricolour was raised over the St Patrick’s Church of Ireland church on Easter Sunday. As some form of “retaliation” the Union flag was then raised over the Marion Hall in the town.

This unpleasant silliness has been condemned by both Olive Church the local UUP councillor who is a member of St. Patrick’s CoI and John Dallat the SDLP MLA. I am slightly disappointed to see, however, that Dallat described the misuse of the Union flag as a sectarian desecration (which I entirely agree with) but seemed not to use the term sectarian when describing flying the tricolour over St. Patrick’s. Overall I thought his condemnation of the attack on the CoI was less fulsome than that on the Marion Hall. Maybe I am being too sensitive.

  • RepublicanStones

    Im not entirely sure of your view on the flying of flags Turgon, but the use of them as proxy weapons is childish. I do believe in equality as regards areas designated as ‘shared space’, but tit for tat, or posting them on any available street lamp is akin to a dog takin a piss. There is little which annoys me more than the sight of a tattered and torn tricolour left to rot in the wind, whilst the sight of any union jack hurts my eyes….joking (or am i?)
    If a flag goes up in the morning, it should come down before sunset, it seems laziness grabs these paitriots in the last half of this endeavour.

  • Turgon

    RS,
    That is an interesting point. A long time ago I heard that it was considered disrespectful to fly a flag after the sun had set. Clearly Northern Ireland seems not to accept this. If so do other countries have this convention?

  • Garibaldy

    Pure sectarianism. Which of course doesn’t actually exist, except in so far as it is the other side. Or a group of kids. And all the other excuses.
    These people should be charged with incitement to hatred if they are caught.

  • Mark McGregor

    Gotta agree with Gari, pure sectarianism.

    But the fact churches have flag poles to fly them from and can have a flag that doesn’t suit their religion is also an indictment of their own contribution to sectarianism.

  • Gregory

    I think flagging from Orangies is more fun when there is snow and ice, nothing quite like a chum sliding off a Jaffa Hall to provoke giggles amongst his loyal crew.

    If the tricolor was about the steeple top, I suggest it was a brave enough effort.

    I think it is digusting that some black hearted eejit would stick a union flag of all things on a Marion hall, it just shows what pratistants are capable of.

  • slug

    “I thought his condemnation of the attack on the CoI was less fulsome than that on the Marion Hall.”

    Fulsome means insincere/weak. So you are saying that Dallat was sincere when criticising the attack on CoI and weak when condemning the Marion Hall? Or are you misusing the word?

  • RepublicanStones

    Turgon in the military (you know those boys who actually get paid for soldiering) the flag is raised in the morning and lowered before sunset. Because if it is not lowered before sunset, its akin to playin a tape of your national anthem and then walking out of the room so you can’t hear it, in other words, disrespectful.

    Mark???
    ‘and can have a flag that doesn’t suit their religion’

    im not sure we in the west have national flags to suit a religion….you wanna be headin east a good bit to find those.

  • ben

    Why is it anyone’s business what flags a church or a “Marion Hall” (whatever that is) fly? Unless the flags depict tentacle porn or something, who cares and why does everyone feel they have to stick their oar in?

    Ireland and the UK are friendly, neighbouring nations and members in good standing of the international community. It takes a unique brand of hysterical provincial paranoia to get lathered up about “unpleasant silliness” about some displaying the flag of one such on their own private property.

  • Garibaldy

    I agree that the churches have their own guilt on promoting sectarianism. I hadn’t thought that the churches might have flagpoles, and had assumed they were stuck on the buildings themselves. As I’ve seen before.

  • dub

    slug,

    where did you get this definition of fulsome from????

  • Turgon

    ben,
    I think with respect you misunderstand. In this case the Union flag was flown over a building owned by the RC church (clearly offensive and sectarian to the RC community) in supposed retaliation for a tricolour being flown over a CoI church (again offensive and sectarian to the Protestant community). It is the use of flags not to mark one’s own territory (problematic as that sometimes is) but to antagonise the other community by flying them over their property which is the issue here.

  • Gregory

    “I hadn’t thought that the churches might have flagpoles, and had assumed they were stuck on the buildings themselves. As I’ve seen before.”

    They don’t all have flag poles. They once needed them for Empire Day & etc. Irishman Lord Meath was the founder of the Empire Movement.

  • Gregory

    “think with respect you misunderstand. In this case the Union flag was flown over a building owned by the RC church (clearly offensive and sectarian to the RC community”

    The ‘RC” moniker can also be slightly off-putting. We are not Roman in the sense of a city, we were the state religion of Rome.

    We are therefore just ‘Catholics’.

    The last surviving office of the (eastern) imperium is by the way the office of the (Roman) Patriarch at Constantinople.

    G.

  • Gregory

    Do Canadians still do Victoria day on the original (Empire Day) date?

  • erm?

    “However, no independent evidence has emerged to support O’Rawe’s suggestion that the IRA leadership deliberately prolonged the hunger strike for political advantage for the movement outside. O’Rawe’s cell-mate does not believe that hunger strikers were allowed to die in order to maximise electoral support.”

  • Steve

    Gari
    We mostly call it May long weekend/ 24 weekend and lastly victoria day

    its considered the first weekend of the summer and a large percentage of the population goes camping / cottaging and we drink ourselves stupid

    its the third Monday in May

  • Gregory

    “its the third Monday in May”

    That’s the last Monday before the 24th of May.

    relic of Empire Day in your case. The date in the UK was changed to HM birdday (official) and then to March sometime. Commonwealth day etc.

    24th of May was Empire Day as per the Empire Movement. It wasn’t that bad a deal, it was just little kids and parades.

    It was an easy target for PC types. In ULster the OO stuff would have been to the fore.

    Empire Day Parade – AOL VideoThe whole Empire Day parade from 2004 or 2005. To mark British Empire Day, the Orange Order in Lisburn and Dunmurry districts combine for a parade, ma…

    Maybe they still do it.

    They have so darn many parades it is impossible to keep track. One doesn’t stop to ask “what’s this one for me auld Jaffa”

    G.

  • Steve

    In Canada its really just an excuse to take a long week end

    Our population is not largely from the western european archipeligo ant more so we are hardly going to celebrate “empire”

    I personally could trace 3/4’s of my ancestory to the archipeligo but my last name doesnt fit

    I truly am CANADIAN a mutt, a halfbreed and free of vestigial loyalty

  • Gregory

    I got the blame for Pettigrew’s chauffeur thing.

    ‘Pettigrew’s staff says that driver Bruno Labonté has “some responsibilities that are not on his official job description.” ‘

    I just happened to be targeting him at the moment with the same journalists. I was doing organized crime and exotic dancer visas.

    So most Canadians are not European. Are you sure?

    G.

  • Gregory

    I also queered up the girls in the Dominican Republic relating to Judy Sgro.

    The House of Lancaster’s attempts to source from outside Romania, a cartel had that.

  • Steve,
    I really hope that cottaging has a different meaning in Canada than it does in the United Kingdom!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    The raising of the tricolour over the church of Ireland seems to have been done following the AOH Parade in Draperstown which commemorated the Feast of St. Patrick.

  • Mary Christ

    Turgon: The link you gave is only to the Anglican church, not to any story of a tricolour flying on it. The Anglican Church is the British military at prayer. Although you support these invaders, you should not try to warp the facts. Sectarian baiting is the Protestant “culture”. No point denying it.

  • Turgon

    There was no easily accessible picture link for the Marion Hall so I could not include it. I think the CoI in Kilrea is a very attractive building. It looks even better seen from the centre of the town. I decided to include a link of the picture because I like the building.

  • Mustapha Mond

    I’m against national, flags on or in churches,

    IMO it’s about your affiliation with God, not your political or national affiliations.

    “Sectarian baiting is the Protestant “culture”.”

    What are you on about? are you saying that the culture of the reformed churches across the whole world is based on ‘baiting’?

  • Gregory

    “There was no easily accessible picture link for the Marion Hall so I could not include it. I think the CoI in Kilrea is a very attractive building. It looks even better seen from the centre of the town. I decided to include a link of the picture because I like the building.”

    I had promised it to Opus Dei in 1972 as soon as we had ‘put the heretics to the sword’.

    Of course these days we would probably need to enable a smidgeon of cross-party support.

  • Gregory

    “I really hope that cottaging has a different meaning in Canada than it does in the United Kingdom!”

    I spotted that as well and moved towards Pettigrew et alia. I will have you know, I campaigned against squirting contests in Canada,

    (I couldn’t make this up)

    I really did, on health grounds of course, nothing to do with the fact that it was undertaken in gay strip clubs.

  • Turgon, it’s the Marian Hall and I’m fairly certain it’s here outside Kilrea. I can’t spot any photos of the hall.

  • patsy

    Just to correct you Turgon it was not a Union flag on the Marian hall it was a Govt of Northern Ireland flag more commonly misnamed as an Ulster flag.

  • Republican Co. Derry

    I don’t live a million miles from Kilrea and knowing the area pretty well, i would suggest that these flag flying actions were most likely undertaken by local idiots as there are alot of young people on both sides around kilrea (like many towns and villages) who like to dable in petty politics but have little understanding of republicanism or for that matter unionism, for who celtic/rangers provide some warped version of politics. i am am not tarring all young people from kilrea with the same brush and acknowledge these idiots are small in number.

    As an irish republican i can’t stand sectarianism in any form and knowing that it was the british (ably aided by both catholic and protestant churches) who cultivated the religious hatred in Ireland from the aftermath of 1798 to the present day, i urge some-one to school the young people around kilrea on the finer facts of this.
    Using the national flag of Ireland for divisive actions like this is a disgrace. i was under the impression republicans had got the point were we are secure enough in our own politics to fly the flag in limited, specific and respectful manners.

    that is why i am sure that the instigators of this do not represent irish republicans and if they had any aspirations of calling themselves irish republicans they would not stoop to these actions, mimicking the activities of loyalists regarding flags.

  • Garibaldy

    What was that I was saying about blaming a few out of order kids and saying themmuns are the really sectarian ones?

    While ignoring the reality that the communalist politics practised by all the major parties is inherently sectarian.

  • CJ

    The primary meaning of “fulsome” is the negative one (that is, offensive, unctuous). The confusion around the word means that it’s probably best avoided.

  • nineteensixtyseven

    I think you are being a little bit sensitive, Turgon. Dallat’s press release said:

    “The congregation of the Church of Ireland have my deepest regret that their church was used to fly a tricolour on Easter Sunday. Likewise as a member of the Catholic community I deeply regret that the Marian Hall, built in honour of Our Lady, was ALSO [emphasis added] desecrateded by the sectarian flying of the Union Flag.”

    I think ‘also’ implies that the former as well as the latter flagflying was desecration. I think you’d have to have been looking in order to find something like that.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    [i]”was ALSO [emphasis added] desecrateded by the sectarian flying of the Union Flag.”

    I think ‘also’ implies that the former as well as the latter flagflying was desecration. I think you’d have to have been looking in order to find something like that. [/i]

    Nice try 1967, but if that’s the case, surely the Union flag would ALSO have to be flown from the other building?

  • sean

    Every village and town has it small brained idiots, and when you take a close look at those involved in sectarian behaviour , like erecting flags on lamp post and painting kerbs etc , you will always find the scum of society. Most have not the brains they were born with, and more often than not come from dysfunctional family backgrounds. Most follow sectarian Scottish Football teams , purely because it gives them a outlet to mix and belong to a much larger group of like minded small brained scum. Their like has always been with us and always will be , sadly we will just have to grin and bear it as their seems to be no solution to this problem.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    [i]”Every village and town has it small brained idiots, and when you take a close look at those involved in sectarian behaviour , like erecting flags on lamp post and painting kerbs etc , you will always find the scum of society.”[/i]

    Sounds like independence day in America.

  • nineteensixtyseven

    “Nice try 1967, but if that’s the case, surely the Union flag would ALSO have to be flown from the other building?”

    I am not sure what you mean. Enough of the pedantic press-release analysis already, it is clear what the man meant.

  • Gregory

    “Sounds like independence day in America.”

    There were aliens and spaceships and stuff in that, we’re talking about Kilrea,

    what we have doesn’t have Jeff Goldblum in it, if it did, we might hang out a few more flags.

  • “it is clear what the man meant.”

    It clearly isn’t.