Prof O’Neill’s latest words of wisdom

Almost as predictable as an IRA statement at this time of year is unionists arguing about what it means. Rusty Nail has helpfully provided a link to the text below along with lots of other links to assorted terrorist cheerleading ramblings and some other stuff. Here is another link to Professor O’Neill’s own comments.

Jim Allister has pointed out that the IRA still seems committed to a united Ireland and criticises those who try to imply otherwise. Sammy Wilson on the other hand found the IRA statement “defensive” and reports that SF are now trapped in a partitionist settlement.

To be honest Professor O’Neill’s statement does not really say very much which is of course itself interesting. Certainly no mention about any disbandment of the Army Council nor anything else of substance though of course absolutely no evidence of loss of commitment to the “cause” and, whilst there are words for imprisoned “volunteers” and the families of deceased “volunteers”; not a word of remorse for any victims of the said “volunteers”. No changes there then.

  • dodrade

    Now we know where Allister stands. He can share power with Sinn Fein as long as they become Unionists!

  • Conor Murphy: “The people of south Armagh (OOPS) west Belfast will stand together and face down this threat and those who are charged with statutory responsibilities need to stand shoulder to shoulder with this community and convince the people that they have their interests at heart.

    “Now is not the time for despair, despite the understandable grief and anger, now is the time for resolute action.”

  • Greenflag

    ‘He can share power with Sinn Fein as long as they become Unionists! ‘

    Which should be around the time the earth changes it’s obliquity, the moon is ejected from it’s orbit , and the Sun expands into a Red Giant.

    Whem all is said and done more is said than done especially at this time of year and again come July 12th . Just bed down for a generation of mediocre politics and even more mediocre politicians /councillors etc etc !

  • interested

    So Jim Allister has pointed out that republicans still seem committed to a united Ireland. All that legal training really didn’t go to waste did it….. he doesn’t miss a trick.

    And next week we’ll have Chairman Jim and his analysis of bears bathroom habits…..

  • interested, you seem to have been misled by Turgon’s interpretation!!

    JA: “Some deluded Unionist politicians have foolishly claimed that Sinn Fein is signed up to “British rule”. Yet, in their Easter Message Sinn Fein’s senior partner, the IRA, makes clear their unwavering commitment to the goal of a united Ireland. Interestingly, P O’Neill says “Since 28 July 2005 IRA Volunteers are playing a positive role in the new phase of our struggle.”

    Those IRA volunteers who have been enabled to play this “positive role” in the new phase of their republican struggle within the Executive, is something for which we can thank those gullible DUP leaders who admitted them to government.”

  • ben

    The “disbandment of the Army Council” has become the latest tedious Unionist bugbear because … why, exactly? Just because you need something of no consequence to cry and whinge about? When and how did this particular pettifogging detail make your agenda? Why is it important to you all of a sudden? This isn’t even moving the goalposts, it’s creating a new and incredibly stupid goalpost ex nihilo and proving, as if further proof were needed, that there’s a good chunk of unionist opinion that just hates everyone else and likes complaining and being the world’s most boring victim.

  • McGrath

    What does it mean? Its a load of socialist clap trap not worth wasting bandwidth over. The only interesting aspect is that Unionists would wonder what it means.

    As for an apology:
    (A) Would Unionists really accept one?
    (B) Would Republicans really mean it?
    I venture sentiments invariably wouldn’t change in the least little bit.

    Meanwhile we have Jim Allisters drivel which equates to nothing more than moral sodomy. His alternatives relegate him into a pathetic minority of other assorted dinosaurs.

  • Enda Kenny, said “we do not need a structure like the army council of the Provisional IRA.”

  • Dewi

    Happy Easter Turgon – hope u enjoyed whatever flat earthers do over Easter. Don’t think it’s Professor however – is it Phelim?

  • CS Parnell

    Actually, the most interesting thing on that page is that they are only printing 1,500 copies of Iris.

    They used to have an army of about that size, now they cannot even get their wider supporters to cough up the cash.

    Wouldn’t it be great for Ireland, though, if the IRA were to announce its disbandment? Nothing to do with what Paisley et al want, but a fundamental sign that physical force has been rejected as a way of resolving our differences.

    Mind you, it is not unreasonable to ask, what is the army council there for? Why are there any IRA volunteers? etc, etc, etc

  • CS Parnell

    By the way, how thick is Jim Allister that he needs a statement in AP to work out that republicans are committed to a united Ireland?

  • CS Parnell

    And another thing…It seems to me AP has no listing of any 1916 commemoration in Kerry. Kerry is one of the most pro-republican counties in the south, with an SF TD and all the rest.

    What’s the story behind that?

  • agh

    must be no prods to piss off in kerry…

  • darth rumsfeld

    All you sneering analyists of the Allister statement miss the point. It’s not aimed at an audience beyond the bewildered DUP supporters who are now having to digest a daily press statement from some or other senior DUPer with more flatulent self-congratulatory sub-Trimble speculation than even the late and sadly missed Dermot Nesbit was wont to spout.

    JHA’s no fool. He knows his target audience, and he’s just going to keep on reminding them of their concerns.

    The only pity is he can’t download the Youtube recording of the Edendork (how appropriate a name for the participants)CIRA Easter Sunday stunt and distribute it to a wider audience. It seems the Brits can never defeat the republican movement, but grammar and big words can.
    No doubt these great heroes explain their illiteracy by claiming they are still traumatised by Holy Mother Church gulling their ancestors into speaking the Saxon tongue the better to get jobs in Amerikay and Engerland

  • gram

    P O’Neill says “Since 28 July 2005 IRA Volunteers are playing a positive role in the new phase of our struggle.”<< Does the use of the word "positive" imply that PON believes that prevously the IRA wasn't playing a positive role?

  • CS Parnell

    Darth,

    The point is that the CIRA are about as relevant as the IRA were after the collapse of the border campaign – ie not at all.

    We are now in another period of change and reform. Unionists, as the majority, essentially control that. If they can show they can have open minds and welcome nationalists into the tent then they will probably be delivering more security for their preferred constitutional outcome.

    If they react with the usual “no Fenians about the place” rhetoric and suggest that the only way nationalists will ever have a say is if they renounce their Irishness then we all know where we end up.

    (Not a threat by the way – I remain optimistic that people in the North can live together and have multiple and even seperate identities, but I am also not a fool. I hope.)

    Unionists should seize the opportunity the GFA has given them.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “If they react with the usual “no Fenians about the place” rhetoric and suggest that the only way nationalists will ever have a say is if they renounce their Irishness then we all know where we end up.”

    Agreed. But who exactly is saying this? Er.. noone. If all nationalists can do is duck the issue of (from their perspective) their responsibility for working in agreed Northern Ireland for the forseeable future, until the never never day of 50%+1, then the present arrangements are worthless.

    And since intelligent nationalists like yourself seem depressingly attached to the MOPE ” yous don’t want a Fenian about the place” it’s no wonder that lumpens can’t break out of the mindset. Where is the mature nationalist debate on the real possibility that there will never be an Ireland independent and free, only two cooperating regions in Europe?

    When such commonplace issues as inviting the Queen to RoI or rejoining the Commonwealth produce collective hmmming and deep intakes of breath in normally sane people you just know the debate needs cranked up and soon.

    Trimble at least had the vision to try to start this with the east-west dimension, but noone has responded with anything like the commitment required by my community to nail down the unpalatable aspects of the Agreement.

    So if support continues to seep away from the Chuckle brothers , it’s at least in part because all nationalists are addicted to the myth that the Agreement is the hors d’oeuvre to a United Ireland, when all its Unionist supporters have seen it as the main course,pudding, brandy and cigars, and thankyou for a lovely evening Mrs Rumsfeld

  • Greenflag

    CS Parnell’

    ‘We are now in another period of change and reform.’

    Perhaps or so it would seem .

    ‘ Unionists, as the majority, essentially control that.’

    They don’t and this is Allister’s main issue when all is sadi and done . From 1920 to 1972 – Unionists enjoyed untrammelled simple ‘majority’ rule . Since then we’ve had several decades of Direct Rule which Unionists had hoped would be simply majority rule by another name .

    Under the GFA -Unionists have not only lost majority rule but are forced to power share with SF . SF now possess the veto which Unionists in the past were only entitled to .

    ‘If they react with the usual “no Fenians about the place” rhetoric and suggest that the only way nationalists will ever have a say is if they renounce their Irishness then we all know where we end up.’

    They will or at least a number of them will . Can’t be helped . It’s the way they are wired .

    ‘Unionists should seize the opportunity’

    Sorry CS – Unionists would’nt know a political opportunity if it came up behind them , tapped them gently on the shoulder and said in an Oxbridge accent ‘I’m here ‘ 🙁

    darth rumsfeld,

    ‘Trimble at least had the vision to try to start this with the east-west dimension, but noone has responded with anything like ‘

    Well Gordon Brown managed to respond by omitting Northern Ireland from his ‘britishness ‘ inclusion . Thoughtless of him I know but there you are .

    ‘the commitment required by my community to nail down the unpalatable aspects of the Agreement.’

    Ah the spoonful of medecine is just not going down is it ? Like the child who doesn’t like his cod liver oil but has to take it nonetheless . Look upon the cod liver oil /GFA as part of the proce that NI Unionists have to pay for being allowed to remain part of the Union until if and when thay are voted out of it .

    I don’t understand why you find a surprise that Unionists and Nationalists would view the GFA differently . Seems to me that if they could’nt view it differently there would never have been any GFA . It was just another ‘fudge ‘ as was the 1920 ‘settlement’ to get Mother England /Brittania off the hook for another while .

    Just keep taking the cod liver oil . It’s never going to run out

  • George

    Darth,
    When such commonplace issues as inviting the Queen to RoI or rejoining the Commonwealth produce collective hmmming and deep intakes of breath in normally sane people you just know the debate needs cranked up and soon.

    I reckon that south of the border neither of these issues hold the slightest interest for the vast majority of the electorate. If there was a deep intake of breath, it would be a yawn.

    These two issues may be of relevance to some unionists and nationalists in NI but they are an inconsequence when it comes to British-Irish (Republic of) relations as a whole.

    You seem to be calling for a debate between northern unionists and nationalists but at the same time you are using as indicators of to the need for this discussion issues specific to the Irish Republic’s government and electorate (visit of a foreign dignatory or joining an international organisation).

    So I am unsure if you mean a debate between the two sides in Northern Ireland or a discussion that also involves the Irish government?

    Or do you also include the British government in this debate?

    If you do then I can’t see it happening because in my view the Republic has been very careful in separating its own British-Irish / East-West interests from any issue or debate that includes serious input from north of the border.

  • Greenflag

    ‘than even the late and sadly missed Dermot Nesbit was wont to spout.’

    Sorry to hear of Nesbitt’s passing. A good man even if a unionist .

    ‘JHA’s no fool. He knows his target audience, and he’s just going to keep on reminding them of their concerns.’

    So what exactly can he deliver for them ? No power sharing with SF ? No GFA ? Only power sharing with Northern Irish Nationalists who swear loyalty to Queenie and wear red white and blue on St Patrick’s Day ? Be honest DR you are intelligent enough to know that JHA has nothing in his bag of tricks bar a decrepit and much chewed on aged piece of orange toffee.

    JHA may be no fool -but I would’nt say the same for his supporters . Fool me once is something that Paisley’s former supporters may say with some integrity . But fool me twice is the only that JHA supporters will be able to say when the penny finally drops .

  • Greenflag

    ‘I reckon that south of the border neither of these issues hold the slightest interest for the vast majority of the electorate. If there was a deep intake of breath, it would be a yawn.’

    Full marks for the obvious -you got that right .

    ‘These two issues may be of relevance to some unionists and nationalists in NI but they are an inconsequence when it comes to British-Irish (Republic of) relations as a whole.’

    True .

    The DUP and SF are stuck together in midstream like the scorpion on the back of a frog . All they can do is stay afloat and neither can see the other side . Sinking is more a probability than possibility based on previous ‘swims’ .

  • CS Parnell

    Darth,

    That is what Alister is saying. I agree that, by and large, that is not what the majority of unionists, even the majority of the DUP are saying (rhetoric is ok, it is exclusion/inclusion that matters).

    But it is disconcerting to see so many people take a man who spouts the old, old lies so seriously.

    And, yes, the agreement means sitting down with the mutated form of the IRA that is SF. That sticks in a lot of people’s craws, but it is a price very much worth paying surely?

  • darth rumsfeld

    “Sorry to hear of Nesbitt’s passing. A good man even if a unionist .”

    Er, just to avoid causing undue distress, Dermot’s not dead – except in the political sense. Funny choice of words by you though- you seem surprised that a Unionist can be a good person- a lot of generosity there then. I know loads of eminently admirable and decent nationalists, and can admire the courage of some I don’t, like Danny O’Connor

    “So I am unsure if you mean a debate between the two sides in Northern Ireland or a discussion that also involves the Irish government?”

    Well actually I think nationalism here isn’t as mature as in the RoI, so I would favour talking to the irish government. It seems to be more proactive in symbolic gestures like the development of the Boyne site or funding Orange culture in the south- the latter causing muted displeasure up here. It can also deliver on items of mutual crossborder benefit. It doesn’t apparently see the removal of British symbols as prductive, having gone through that juvenile phase in the 1920s.
    No northern nationalist has said anything of substance in this debate, though in fairness, the overdue participation of some in Remembrance day events is a tangible step in their reintegration to British civic society for slow learners.

    “Or do you also include the British government in this debate?”
    Yes, even if Gordon Brown seems to want to forget about us.

    “And, yes, the agreement means sitting down with the mutated form of the IRA that is SF. That sticks in a lot of people’s craws, but it is a price very much worth paying surely?”

    Sort answer. Absolutely and categorically not.

    They’re no more fit for government than the Mafia in Naples or Russian gangster chiefs in St Petersburg. It’s not their beliefs that need marginalised; it’s their criminality. Most people used to understand the difference.

  • Greenflag

    ‘Funny choice of words by you though- you seem surprised that a Unionist can be a good person.

    I’m never surprised.

    Yet you seem certain that SF people are nothing other than criminals .

    ‘They’re no more fit for government than the Mafia in Naples or Russian gangster chiefs in St Petersburg.’

    Others might say the same about the DUP . If the UUP had been fit for Government why did Mr Heath suspend Stormont?

    The political fact of life is that SF have replaced the SDLP as the main representatives of the green in NI and the DUP have replaced the UUP.

    The fact that it sticks in some people’s craw is neither here nor there . Unionist one party rule stuck in nationalists craws in NI for 50 years before they were able to open their mouths. At least you can open your mouth . But can you keep it up for 50 years and then take to the barricades ?

    You can always hope that the present Assembly will sooner or later collapse . The odds have got to be high that it will . And then it’s back to DR or something else for the next batch of ‘criminals ‘.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “Others might say the same about the DUP .”
    Others would then be wrong. Yes, there are times when the DUP have flirted with terrorist leaders, but that doesn’t make them terrorist leaders and controllers

    “If the UUP had been fit for Government why did Mr Heath suspend Stormont?”
    Well he did regard them as fit for government actually, just not law enforcement. When they refused to accept a contricted role, he proprogued Stormont. If they’d played ball, they’d still be running a pretend parliament.

    Look, neither Unionist party is exactly overflowing with progressive visionary statesmen, and both have been guilty of Duke of York stunts. In seventy years they’ve probably not produced a dozen able politicians betwen them. But it doesn’t make them criminals- just incompetents

    “And then it’s back to DR or something else for the next batch of ‘criminals ‘.”
    Well roll on the day, but by then there may be an evolution in Sinn fein, without the terrorist baggage of the current leadership. Even JHA isn’t saying they can never be in an administration. And if there’s direct rule, it will be in the context of more powerful local councils that may bridge the Maccrory gap

  • Dewi

    “Well roll on the day, but by then there may be an evolution in Sinn fein, without the terrorist baggage of the current leadership. Even JHA isn’t saying they can never be in an administration”

    Is that the condition Darth? A new, younger, leadership….IMHO JHA would thik of another barrier if that happened.

  • Dewi

    Would thik? would think.

  • Greenflag

    ‘Well he did regard them as fit for government actually, just not law enforcement.’

    ??? Did you stand on your head when you typed the above . What you appear to be saying here is that somebody from the UUP or their descendants the DUP can lead a Government can’t be entrusted with Justice ?

    ‘In seventy years they’ve probably not produced a dozen able politicians betwen them.

    Why do you think that is ? Is it nature or the environment ?

    ‘by then there may be an evolution in Sinn fein’

    May? They have an option to evolve or face the consequences no ‘may’ about it .

    ‘Even JHA isn’t saying they can never be in an administration’

    Newsflash for JHA -SF are in an administration and JHA isn’t. JHA is Paisley MK 111 ? IV ? V ?
    . A pimple just not quite the full pox. The latter was Paisley . The latter has now evolved to pimple perhaos even pimpernel .

    More powerful local councils is probably the way to go . That route should facilitate an easier transition to effective repartition with a reduced likelihood of reviving widespread unnecessary violence.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “What you appear to be saying here is that somebody from the UUP or their descendants the DUP can lead a Government can’t be entrusted with Justice ?”
    Not at all. Merely stating the facts relating to the prorogation of Stormont. Heath was a balloon, but unfortunately also the Prime Minister

    “Why do you think that is ? Is it nature or the environment ?”

    Not sure. But if there are only about 600,000 adult Prods, and half of them are women ( thus effectively ruled out so far as party heirarchies were/are concerned) the talent pool is quite small. Of the 300,000 left, probably half are post-Protestant garden centre or pigeon club types. There was considerable bias towards Orange leaders in the past, so knock out another 100,000.

    That leaves about the population of Newry expected to produce the Metternichs, Chamberlains or Lincolns. And the stultifying boredom of being an MP/MLA hardly attracted highflyers. No money, no real power, limited prospects. it was a glorified county council after all. The tragedy is that many of the able ones- Faulkner and trimble being the most obvious- fell for the hype more easily than their backwoodsmen.

    “They have an option to evolve or face the consequences no ‘may’ about it . ”
    Aye right. When have they ever had to face serious consequences? Northern Bank, McCartney etc etc. The slums of West Belfast misled for decades and their vote’s never been hugher there.

    Oh, and there’ll never be repartition. We’ll have the Maze stadium sooner…