“Trying to enforce the law..”

One of a series of reports from UTV about attacks on the emergency services, tonight’s report, on police on patrol in the Suffolk and Lenadoon area of West Belfast, was presented as evidence of an improvement in circumstances. The report is notable for the absence of any elected representatives, despite the repetition of the ubiquitous ‘community’ label.. and it’s notable for the prominence given to the opinion of a “community worker” – the Suffolk & Lenadoon Interface Group are currently the recipients of a 36 month period of funding worth £2,000,000 from Atlantic Philanthropies which began in January 2007.

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  • The__Raven

    “They have to work with the community…”?

    “We don’t want heavy-handed PSNI behaviour in our community”…?

    Across the north, “anti-social behaviour” (as it is broadly named) is fast becoming the main scourge on the street. You’ll forgive me for starting to sound like a Republican (in the right wing American sense of the word), but it becomes very easy to see how an older generation looks at this with some disdain.

    I hate to even write this, and it is a reflection of being mid-thirties as opposed to teens, but *shudder* in my day….

    I remember being caught by a local peeler with a bottle of cider in my hometown when I was 17. I was terrified of what would happen when “me ma found out.” Where has that respect gone? Where has that fear of authority gone?

    I’m involved with a lot of neighbourhood renewal groups and other community projects. Yes, the world IS “ill-divid” and those projects provide a lifeline for some incredibly bright and able kids caught in the shittiest of circumstances. But increasingly, I am beginning to question the value and validity of those programmes when I hear some of that report.

    I’m not asking for the birch. I’m not saying to return to the days of “a clip round the ear” and a visit to your parents. But something has gone badly wrong with swathes of the next generation down.

    And I don’t know how it can be fixed.

    Kids go out and stone the fire brigade, and it is rewarded by places on a LIFE scheme?? Someone please read this post and tell me I haven’t fallen off the right wing of the scale.

  • Steve

    for 85 years the police force did nothing to earn respect they relied on murder and violence to instill fear in people. now that they lack the immunity of unaccountability they are as useless as tits on a boar.

    now they must rely on their own re-actions to instill respect and compasion in the populace. they are useless plain and simple

  • Adams praises role of Safer Neighbourhood Project

    Does this mean, in practice, that the state justice system is under the direction of paramilitary godfathers in many parts of Northern Ireland?

    Elected politicians from across the UUP-SDLP spectrum can highlight this debasement of democracy but it’s likely that London and Dublin civil servants will continue the process of appeasement.

    “With the baseball bat in one hand and the ballot box in the other” is the new black – and blue.

  • Dec

    Does this mean, in practice, that the state justice system is under the direction of paramilitary godfathers in many parts of Northern Ireland?

    Nevin

    This excerpt might help you answer that:

    The West Belfast MP went on to praise the local people, particularly local women, who have taken a stand in defence of our community. He said:

    “As we came to deal with repeat offenders, and with criminals in breach for example of bail conditions, it needed citizens to come forward to make statements or to go to court to give evidence.

    “I want to praise those who have done so, particularly local women, who faced up to intimidation and harassment in the interests of our community.”

  • Frustrated Democrat

    They wanted Human Rights now they don’t like the outcome be careful what you wish for.

  • Dec, I think we know what the loyalist and republican godfathers did to those who had such courage in the not too distant past. Do they really need the praise of such an unctuous hypocrite? He should have the common decency to hold his tongue.

  • kensei

    Nevin

    Dec, I think we know what the loyalist and republican godfathers did to those who had such courage in the not too distant past. Do they really need the praise of such an unctuous hypocrite? He should have the common decency to hold his tongue.

    Except he’s the MP, and SF have signed up to the Policing and Justice system and there is still potentially mistrust and problems there so he bloody well should not hold his tongue.

    Don’t get churlish when you’ve been shot down.

  • cut the bull

    This must be the only place in Europe were there the police continually repeat the same worn out message “we cant investigate crime if a complaint has not been made to the police”.

    Such shite, the job of the police is to investigate crime wheter a complaint has been made or not.

    Its as if the PSNI are trying to hold communities to ransom. If you dont complain to us, then we dont need to bother doing our job.

  • DK

    “Dec, I think we know what the loyalist and republican godfathers did to those who had such courage in the not too distant past.”

    And now there is a new crop of godfathers (IRSP, Eirigi etc) who are anti-police and no doubt will also be “discouraging” cooperation.

  • “Don’t get churlish when you’ve been shot down.”

    Kensei, I didn’t vote for fascists or mafiaists, loyalist or republican, so I don’t feel the need to defend them – or touch my forelock.

    Those who elevate the thugs should hardly be surprised when the next generation mimics them, even if it is to a lesser degree.

  • cut the bull

    DK
    I think you are missing the point. Sinn Féin took a political decision as a party to support policing and and the judicail system.

    A lot of people many of whom are Sinn Féin voters did not follow blindly.

    There is still a substanial amount within the Republican/Nationalist community who have no faith in the PSNI and they dont need either the IRSP, Éírígí or any one else to discourage them or Sinn Féin to encourage them.

    It usually comes with a life time of experience of bad policing, which doesn’t seem to be changing.

  • ctb, interesting that you should blame the police for those policy and day-to-day decisions that may well have been taken by London and Dublin officials.

    I was given an anecdote recently by a Moyle councillor who claimed that citizens of Ballycastle and Bushmills were being treated differently even when there were quilty of the same offence. That smacks more of a political decision than a policing one.

  • cut the bull

    There is along history of political decisions being carried out by police forces throughout the world.

    I think you have missed by point though. A substansial amount of people within theRepublican/Nationalist community have no faith in the PSNI.

    The PSNI and the RUC particularly the Special branch have a long sorry history allowing people like Mark Haddock to get away with murder.

    Special Branch officers threatening the lives of CID Detective Jonty Brown and his family if he didnt stop talking about informers being allowed to get away with murder.

    Denis Donaldson working for the Special Branch at the time the Assembly was brought down due to him stealing all kinds of documents. Did his handlers who he admitted working for, for twenty years not know what he was donig.

    The blatant lies told at the trial of Seán Hoey.

    The above were due to bad policing.

  • kensei

    Nevin

    Kensei, I didn’t vote for fascists or mafiaists, loyalist or republican, so I don’t feel the need to defend them – or touch my forelock.

    Irrelevant. You were completely shot down, and then tried to cover. Badly.

    Those who elevate the thugs should hardly be surprised when the next generation mimics them, even if it is to a lesser degree.

    I heard a story the other week where one of my uncles had called the police during the troubles after a rough family had moved into their street and had, among other things, beat up one of my relatives and threatened others. The RUC men asked them why they didn’t go to one of their own to deal with it at which point they were asked to leave.

    Tired of your black and white bullshit, Nevin.

  • Kensei, you seem to like the ‘shot down’ lingo. Sad.

  • “The above were due to bad policing.”

    So why not point the finger at the London and Dublin folks who have been and are controlling the policing, ctb? Or even at those who acted to destabilise society for political ends?

  • cut the bull

    Bad policing happens when politicians allow it or in some cases promote it.

    I dont tend to point my finger as it can be sore if some body grabs it.

    I blame politicians and the police respectively.

    This society has long been destabilised by all sorts of people and Governments for political ends.

  • kensei

    Nevin

    Kensei, you seem to like the ‘shot down’ lingo. Sad.

    I could put it as “Your point was comprehensively refuted” if you like but the representation does not change the underlying facts.

    As you know, which is why you went straight for man playing rather than addressing the issue.

  • Kensei, #3 gets straight to the heart of the issue viz whether justice/the law is to be enforced by the paramilitaries or by the agencies of the state.

    “you went straight for man playing”

    Perhaps some of my critics should look in the mirror …