“Nothing is as it seems in rugby any more.”

If the opening games of the 6 Nations Tournament are anything to go by it’s going to be an eventful and close series. The BBC report correctly sums up Ireland’s win over Italy at Croke Park, “Ireland labour to opening win” – the ghosts of the World Cup have clearly not been fully exorcised. Ireland twelfth straight win over Italy, “perhaps the least satisfying”. The Guardian’s Kevin Mitchell gives an overview of the scene. Meanwhile The Ospreys Wales triumphed over England at Twickenham for the first time in 20 years in a remarkable second half comeback. Eddie Butler is worth reading as always. Scotland face France today at Murrayfield, kick-off 3.00pm. [All games will be available on the BBC i Player here] Update France “[send] out a warning to the rest of the Six Nations.” Scotland 6 France 27

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  • happy lundy

    Hmm..

    Just tried it with the lines in the right order.

    Stinks.

    Dewi,

    This girl from Ardoyne.

    Her name wasn’t Mary was it?

  • Dewi

    And what’s all the saucepan nonsense about Dewi?

    All makes perfect sense

  • happy lundy

    Crikey Dewi,

    It’s no wonder everyone’s injured or dead in your song. Saucepan’s boiling on the fire, saucepans boiling on floors.

    Havn’t you lot heard of health and safety?

    Tragic story.

    No wonder you all start crying when you sing it.

  • Greenflag

    ‘There was a substantial minority in the RoI who considered themselves British – before they were burned out, murdered or forced to leave. A case of conform or else.’

    Thee was an even more substantial majority in Ireland- North and South who suffered a whole lot more . An estimated 685,000 or one third of the population died /starved/burnt out etc etc during the Second Englsih Conquest period 1550 through 1700 . Throw in the 1840’s Famine, mass emigration and the 40,000 dead in 1798 not to mention the War of Independence and the recent conflict in NI and ‘conform or else ‘ looks like a good deal to any neutral observer.

    ‘ What steps have the RoI taken to represent the Irish-British people of the RoI? ‘

    They have the vote and the same rights as everybody else . They have been elected to the Dail . One even made it to President -Erskine Childers . Ernest Blythe was Minister for Finance . Martin Mansergh son of Sir Nicholas Mansergh the famous British historian -Oxford educated etc has even been elected to the Dail for Fianna Fail. Erskine Childers father was in the RAF . That fact did not prevent Childers winning the Presidential election by mass popular vote over his ultra Catholic opponent Tom O’Higgins . I could go on but I’ll wait to hear from you on the long list of Catholics in Northern Ireland who were honoured or elected to high office by the Unionist Party . You might even start with that Belfast Catholic chap who won a VC during the war and the great reception Belfast City Council gave him :(!

    ‘They certainly haven’t changed the military and offensive SS anthem to accommodate them.’

    I notice that Northern Ireland has not changed it’s offensive GSTQ to accomodate the 47% of Northern Ireland’s population who would prefer the Soldiers Song ? Pot , kettle and black come to mind .

    ‘And you could do a tour of the RoI without seeing a Union flag.’

    This could be because the Republic is not part of the UK not since 1922 anyway . I’ve seen Union Jacks flying at sporting events and where British firms are represented at business exhibitions . There’s a UJ at Dublin Airport among other flags which I regularly see .

    ‘Apparently the natives like to burn them’

    I can recall only one occcassion when a Union Jack was burnt by a mob and that was in the 1970’s during a protest march on the British Embassy following the Bloody Sunday atrocity in Derry . IIRC during the protests by a mob of 20,000 only one British person was injured as a result of a fracas in Dublin -a sprained elbow I believe .

    The ‘equality’ of esteem you seem to be suggesting exists in Northern Ireland obviously does not take account of the ‘ritual’ burnings of the Irish Tricolour by loyalist and orange order mobs not once but hundreds of times every July 12th all over Northern Ireland wherever loyalists are a majority.

    ‘Campaign for equality in the RoI and then I might take you seriously.’

    We’ll take you seriously when you get your facts right .

  • Greenflag

    “There was a substantial minority in the RoI who considered themselves British”

    Just like me and I find it difficult to live there

    So what’s the problem ? Too many Polish people ? Too many Chinese ? Lithuanians ? French ? Latvians ? Russians ? Oh I get it 🙂

    Too many Irish – enough said .

    And if it’s too difficult to live there I’m sure it’s much easier in Blighty or somewhere else . It’s a free country and if ye don’t like it there’s an airport /ferry port . Presuming you hold an EU passport you can choose to live in about 25 other countries in Europe .

    Good luck in your choice 🙂

  • PeaceandJustice

    Greenflag – “It’s a free country and if ye don’t like it there’s an airport /ferry port.”

    The same applies to those who don’t like Northern Ireland being British. But your attitude is typical. Ignore the suffering of the Protestants in the RoI and forcing them to conform at gun point. And then claim that those that stayed don’t need any special consideration as they all love the tricolour and sing the Soldier’s Song before breakfast.

    The last time the Orange Order tried to parade in Dublin it had to be cancelled due to threats and intimidation. And while the RoI flag flies in many areas in NI, the same isn’t true in the RoI due to the same threats and intimidation.

    No wonder there is a problem concerning rugby matches given the sectarian nature of Pan-Nationalism.

  • janeymac

    [i]”Liverpool fans sing “The Fields of Anfield Road” to the tune of “The Fields of Athenrye”…same tune, different lyrics…pretty sure King Kenny and Steve Heighway on the wing don’t appear in the original.[/i]

    The important thing is the tune … not the words. Do you really think Munster fans sing “The Fields” because of the words? “Stand Up and Fight” is a great song, appropriate words, but difficult to sing for your average match goer. Anyway, here is Sky’s BRITISH commentator comments on the Fields being sung in Thomond Park: “You can even enjoy the injury breaks here. Fantastic.” (Munster v. Sale).
    http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=IJMf6XBS4H8

    Even a comment from someone on youtube declaring himself to be an Englishman saying what a great song it is.

    [i]”All those who won’t support Ireland as they don’t like the songs/anthems/flags/pints/ craic/….Ho Hum, see you then. I guarantee there’ll still be bus and train loads of people coming down from all over NI to watch it, most won’t bat an eyelid over which song gets sung. Go and play politics with someone else’s game.
    Ireland’s Call won’t get dropped. It will remain. Phil Coulter is more powerful than provincial hacks in Cork ; )[/i]

    Don’t know why you are picking on Cork hacks here. The only good word I’ve heard about “Ireland’s Call” came from Phil Coulter. In fact, I can’t think of anyone (hack or otherwise) who have had a good word to say about “Ireland’s Call” as a song (distinct from the sentiment as to why it is used).

    [i]Jackman & Heaslip in is good news i’d say, delighted not to see Horgan thrown in on centre as he isn’t in shape just yet, hoping he’ll be fit & ready for the England game. Poor Tommy Bowe…perhaps the quota conspiracy theorists can stop their dreary rumours.[/i]

    Ah, but the particular tune that Tommy sings is AnaB. LOL.

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    “Ignore the suffering of the Protestants in the RoI and forcing them to conform at gun point.”

    What “suffering” are you talking about?

    Infact the population of Protestants in the Irish Republic is increasing. Probably coming over the “border” wanting to get away from the likes of yourself.

  • The Dubliner

    P&J;, the days when Ireland was ruled by a minority against the will of the majority are long gone. And as much as it distresses you, they are never going to return. The majority decide their affairs, child, not a tiny minority of die-hard unionists stuck in an enclave in the top right corner of the island surviving on handouts and borrowed time who have delusions about being joint-owners of Ireland. That majority decided what their anthem and flag would be, and that is the way it will stay unless they decide otherwise. Instead of whinging at Fenians and “natives” on the Internet, why don’t you repeat this sentence until its meaning is absorbed into your mind: “I am a beggar without dignity or self-respect who choses to live as a parasite on the enterprise of others. I give daily thanks to my keepers, the UK taxpayer, without whose subvention I would live as my merits dictate: utterly bankrupt in an utterly failed statelet.” Now, isn’t it good to be properly acquainted with reality – even if just for a brief moment?

  • Democratic

    “That majority decided what their anthem and flag would be, and that is the way it will stay unless they decide otherwise.” – another familiar argument it seems…

  • good grief

    Janeymac..

    tis a good tune, and i’m sure it’s fantastic a thomond park, however the tune is the only thing shared by fans at both stadiums. Anyway, i’m not trying to make a political point about it, merely a bit of pedantry.

    As i recall the conspiracy theorists claims were in regard to quota’s for Ulster players…please don’t tell the conspiracy only applied to some of the Ulster players !

    Poor Cork hacks…i promise not to single them out. Another post made reference to local media rumblin about getting rid of Ireland’s Call. We’re probably stuck with it on some sort of long term expensive contract based on it being used successfully before we went to the world cup….ahem.

  • Greenflag

    ‘Ignore the suffering of the Protestants in the RoI and forcing them to conform at gun point. ‘

    Okay I confess – I spend every Sunday knocking on doors of ‘protestant houses’ in Dun Laoghaire forcing the residents out at gunpoint and marching them down to the almost empty Catholic Church to make them ‘conform’with the few remaining old fart practicing RC’s left in the neighbourhood . However not being one of the latter I insist on waiting outside the church until the mass is finished . I’ve no time for that carry on.

    Then I march em all back home and force them to sing the Soldiers Song in English on the way because I don’t know all the words in Irish . I believe they’re coming around to my way of thinking for only last week some of them asked if they could wait outside and read the Sunday Times . How could I refuse ? But on the whole they seem to enjoy the weekly torture . One of the more overweight ones has even thanked me for he has lost a fair amount of excess avoirdupois over the past year . My OC has now reprimanded me for going soft – and has now ramped up the torture to include forced listening to the Angelus at 6.00 pm every evening . This is really bad news as it cuts into my free time . But my ‘kind protestant prisoners’ have signed affidavits stating they promise to swith on the Angelus every evening as requested and promise to listen to it with the sound turned off which I think is a nice compromise . Thank Christ my southern prods are so tolerant for to be honest I don’t enjoy the angelus at all at all .

    ‘The last time the Orange Order tried to parade in Dublin it had to be cancelled due to threats and intimidation.’

    IIRC the British Government in earlier times wanted to ban all Orange Marches as they always led to a disturbance of the public peace and sectarian conflict /property damage /injured policemen and even the occassional Catholic cadaver or two or three followed by a complimentary protestant equivalent etc etc .

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    ha ha …hilarious Greenflag!

  • PeaceandJustice

    To Greenflag – your post might be funny if you also used such humour about the suffering of other peoples. It’s a fact that many Protestants were forced to leave their homes or murdered by Republicans in what is now the RoI. Making a joke about it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. But it doesn’t fit into your neat definition of Republicanism given to you by the Great Bearded One.

  • Greenflag

    I endeavour to give satisfaction on appropriate occassions particularly when some of our more maniacal contributors go beyond the beyonds if you catch my drift .

    But I’m still worried about the French -jayzuz it’ll be a tough one

  • lib2016

    The organisers of the last Orange march in Dublin gave up when the CoI refused to allow their parade to enter it. How many times does it have to be posted? – most Protestants in the South are republicans and support any of the republican parties which exist there. Fianna Fail or Fianna Gael mostly, just like the rest of the population.

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    Peace & Justice,
    a candidate for the couch no doubt, tonight and why not put the feet up and watch the Oscar winning ‘The Queen’ on RTE 1 at 9.30.

    Dads Army is on UK Gold earlier I think.

  • Greenflag

    ‘your post might be funny if you also used such humour about the suffering of other peoples. ‘

    I’ sorry you found it unfunny . You’re not a Swede or a German or Japanese by any chance ?. Rumour has it that the latter peoples are somewhat ‘deficient ‘ in the humour department ? Although I must say I could not say that about those I have met .

    ‘It’s a fact that many Protestants were forced to leave their homes or murdered by Republicans in what is now the RoI.’

    This is true . Alas it’s also true that in our sad country the reverse has also happened which is a fact you appear to be entirely oblivious of 🙁

    ‘It’s also a fact that many Catholics were forced to leave their homes or murdered by Unionists and Loyalists /British in what is now Northern Ireland and indeed across all of Ireland over a period of centuries .

    I don’t know if I mentioned it but the best reference re the problems mentioned above is in Tanner’s ‘Ireland’s Holy Wars ‘ . Tanner puts all the nasty stuff in context and doesn’t gloss over the gorey details . Tanner is English by the way and has also written on other ‘ethnic /religious civil wars ‘ such as Yugoslavia /Balkans etc. Might give you some perspective .

    ‘But it doesn’t fit into your neat definition of Republicanism given to you by the Great Bearded One. ‘

    As I’m not a Republican well not in the SF sense -My politics being a rugby/soccer Nationalist with a very small n I don’t recall accepting anything from the Great Bearded One ?

  • George

    Lib2016,
    St. Annes pulled the plug over the shenanigans at Drumcree if I recall. They were none too pleased at the idea of giving that terror show any credence.

    Greenflag,
    so you’re the one I was told about in my youth when we spoke the word “Kingstown” in hushed reverential tones under the stairs before heading out to the conservatory with a trowel on a Sunday for some publically viewable toil.

  • Greenflag

    ‘so you’re the one I was told about in my youth when we spoke the word “Kingstown” in hushed reverential tones ‘

    Doubt it old chap I was reared on the north side of Dublin which is a longway from St Vincent & the Grenadines : Can’t imagine you needing a conservatory in the tropics ? I would have thought those native chappies would have done a better job with the bananas and coconuts .

    For the geographically challenged

    ‘Kingstown’ population 15,900, is the chief port of Saint Vincent, and the capital of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines. It is located at 13°10′N, 61°14′W. Kingstown is a center for the island’s agricultural industry and a port of entry for tourists. Exports include bananas, coconuts, and arrowroot.

  • Wrong sport but GAME SET and MATCH to the Southern boys. This debate has made me smile, genuinely funny stuff in there (intentional and non-intentional).

    By the way, Ireland’s Call is shite, an awfully dreary dirge.

  • Greenflag

    ‘By the way, Ireland’s Call is shite, an awfully dreary dirge.’

    Naw it would easily get to the top ten except for two things – the lyrics and the music 🙂

  • Dewi

    And back to the Rugby………….or perhaps not. I don’t reckon the Haggis munching, Caber tossing, Whisky swilling, Bagbipe players got a chance on Saturday. But I’ve been wrong before (Fiji !)

  • Campaign for C19th intolerance begins here now!!!

    British people are renowned for their sense of humor.
    Peaceandjustice displays that he has none therefore he is not British.