Barack: They said this day would never come….


BAD news for Hillary Clinton, coming third in the Democratic caucus in Iowa. Just watched a pretty passionate victor’s speech from Barack Obama – it’s only 4am here – emphasising American unity, healthcare reform and an end to the war in Iraq. Over on the Republican side of the fence, Mike Huckabee has defeated Mormon Mitch Romney in Iowa. On a tangent, while Mick has already alluded to Romney’s problems with the Bible belt, one of our local Free Presbyterian fundies has pointed to some secret outreach he’s been up to with Paisley’s alma mater.

  • Greenflag

    America’s young people are not looking forward to 200 years in Iraq or any other war zone . Obama has been against this war from the outset . Edwards now admits it was a mistake . Hilary still minces her words .

    On the economy the rich are getting richer – millions face foreclosure – fewer people have pensions to look forward to and the health care /health insurance system is a mess .

    Perhaps America is going through a necessary ‘revolution’ . About time . They haven’t had one for over 200 years . Time to move on .

  • Bob from Boston

    Greenflag..

    Americas young people are not looking forward, period. The illegal immigration-terrorist caucus (aka Democratic Party) is seeing to swelling the revolutionary ranks. Hope I’m around to partake in the festivities. Should be easy pickins’. I love our 2nd Amendment.

  • Dewi

    “Should be easy pickins’. I love our 2nd Amendment.”

    You ain’t real Bob – you are a parody. Ever read any George Higgins with his Boston lawyer Jerry Kennedy? Very good.

  • Bob from Boston

    Ha, a parody….
    ‘Friends of Eddie Coyle’ a cult classic in some Boston circles.

    I’ve met Mr. Higgins at some functions over the years. A South Shore Irish guy. I’ve read most of his books, great stuff.

    I know a few ‘Jerry Kennedy’s’ btw. Higgins hits it right on the head.

    BTW I’m ‘from’ Boston, moved to West Palm Beach not to long ago. (no gun laws);-)

  • Dewi

    Bit long but NBC Barack interview quite good-Gotta wonder a little about substance – but seems to be taking it all pretty calmly.

  • Greenflag

    ‘I love our 2nd Amendment.’

    Of course you do . Nothing like 40,000 homicides a year to maintain the USA’s status as the world’s most civilised state? Now that the USA has moved to expanding it’s overseas empire you should get not only to love your second amendment but maybe get in some practical exercise in Iran ? Pakistan ? North Korea ? or somewhere else .

    Not to worry your ‘compassionate conservative’ President is (now that he has been seven years in office )on his first ‘peace seeking mission’ to Israel ? Imagine that . Seven ****ing years ?

    As somebody wise said never mind what they say just watch what they do !On that basis Bush must be the worst incumbent ever to have sat in the Oval Office . No wonder USA voters and especially the younger people can’t wait to see an end to the gobshite’s term ! Neither can the rest of the world !

  • Greenflag

    ‘I love our 2nd Amendment.’

    Of course you do . Nothing like 40,000 homicides a year to maintain the USA’s status as the world’s most civilised state? Now that the USA has moved to expanding it’s overseas empire you should get not only to love your second amendment but maybe get in some practical exercise in Iran ? Pakistan ? North Korea ? or somewhere else .

    Not to worry your ‘compassionate conservative’ President is (now that he has been seven years in office )on his first ‘peace seeking mission’ to Israel ? Imagine that . Seven ****ing years ?

    As somebody wise said never mind what they say just watch what they do !On that basis Bush must be the worst incumbent ever to have sat in the Oval Office . No wonder USA voters and especially the younger people can’t wait to see an end to his second term ! Neither can the rest of the world ! It’ll take a generation for the USA to recover from the trillions wasted on an idiotic war .

  • Greenflag

    Dear Moderator ,

    Please remove post 6 above Jan 08, 2008 @ 09:38 PM. in which there is a reference to the present USA President as a gobshite . This is a gross misrepresentation and a lie and I expect that ‘gobshites ‘ everywhere will be highly upset at the comparison .

    Yours etc GF

  • Bob from Boston

    Greenflag,

    Blow me.

  • dewi

    “Blow me” – now that is enough mun. What’s with the abuse ?

  • Harry Flashman

    Looks like Hillary is making a come-back, no surprise there, just as I predicted, she’s the most ruthless operator in US politics.

    Prediction; January 20th 2009, “Barack Who?”.

    Unfortunately the “maverick” (read ‘unbalanced’) John McCain is surging ahead on the other side. Romney and Thompson snooze and lose while Guiliani hasn’t even got the ball rolling yet.

  • Bob from Boston

    Dewi,
    Lighten up, for cryin’ out loud. It was an appropriate response to a rabid, factless(?) Yank hater. I’m not subtly ironic, nor do I care to toss witty comebacks to what was an obvious, hateful, attack. Yeesh….lighten up. We don’t want to have you sobbin’ in the corner…

  • Rory

    Why-oh-why we ask ourselves is it always the 2nd Amendment, Chuck Norris/Arnie movie character loving, gun-toteing, wish fulfillment type of guys who inevitably wind up being cheer leaders for alcoholic, draft dodgeing stooges of bullies just like them who just happen to have more money than they have been able to steal.

    Is it their hope that added power and unearned acquisition of greater wealth will somehow justify their own misery of being?

    But then the answer comes – clear and true – it’s the American way.

    Some of us don’t think so and, we suspect, neither do some Americans.

    Excepting James Joyce’s Ulysses there is no work of literary fiction in the English language in the past century that tells of the human heartbeat and foibles of all that century was to become than F Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby. Yet the political leaders of the very state* that gave birth to that work and that yet promotes it in all of it’s schools appear to have learnt nothing from it.

    *By “state” I mean the USA which, being an amalgam of disparate states, is simply itself a larger state. Whether or not it can be described as a nation/state I leave open to discussion.
    Any contributions from the people of the American Nations might add value to that discussion.

  • Dewi

    It was the tears wot won it?

  • Bob from Boston

    (BDS)Rory, if you’re referring to Bush, I carry no water for that man, soft on terrorists and criminal, border hopping, immigrants. Thank God The Goracle lost, though (fair and square).

    Otherwise..

    Clot thee, the donkey you rode in on, the little dog following behind,and the fleas jumping off his ass. Thou’rt the out-of-wedlock-begotten
    offspring of a syphilitic Port Said bum-boat operator and a scrofulous camel. I could carve a better brain out of congealed bacon grease.
    Thou’rt so narrow-minded couldst see through a keyhole with both eyes. Were I like thee, thou unmuzzled fly-bitten maggot-pie, I’d throw away
    myself. Couldst find a better mind in a reliquary. Thou art a churlish earth-vexing clotpole. Igneous rocks exert a firmer grasp upon empirical reality than thou dost. Thy bones are hollow; thy brain is
    clabbered; impiety hast made a feast of thee. My sincerest wish is thy beslubbering mother runs out from under the porch and bites what little thee hast left smooth off.

    FLLUUUSSHHH… Away, moldy fen-sucking creamfaced loon, away!

    Better Dewi? (compliments of Madra Dubh, of newsgroup fame)

  • Dewi

    Subtle as a shovel – but funnier…..

  • Greenflag

    ‘It was an appropriate response to a rabid, factless(?) Yank hater. I’m not subtly ironic, nor do I care to toss witty comebacks to what was an obvious, hateful, attack.’

    Listen here gobshite if that’s the best you can do you need to find some other blog .

    Far from being a yank hater I look forward to the replacement of the present retard incumbency by either Barack Obama ,Hilary Clinton or John Edwards .My preference would be for Edwards with either of the other two as VP 🙂

    America is undergoing a major shift in it’s politics . The fact that you have failed to notice it should make the November result something of a surprise for you. With Independent voters going 60/40 to the Democrats which is a complete turnaround from the last election and the numbers voting for Democrats almost double those for Republicans it would seem that the Republicans are in for a major drubbing in November !

    Now go away and play with your gun or go shoot a fully armed deer or rabbit !

  • Bob from Boston

    Greenflag,

    Your a Yank hater, just like Hillary, Barack, and Edwards. You are a BDS wacko, the type who can deliver invectives but a never valid, factual, adult, argument. ‘retard incumbency’ indeed. Give me a cite on the independent voter comment. I have some of my own. You can stay, mucs like you make my points so much more valid, thank you. 😉

  • Dewi

    Bob – it is difficult to engage with such constant invective. Insults are fine now and then but lose effectiveness in diatribe.
    On the election I’d love to know the view of any NH democrats on how that happened.

  • susan

    Bob, the 60/40 split of NH Independents opting for Dem over Rep primaries is at any of the usual sites — CNN, Washington Post, NY Times. Independents in the Dem primary backed Obama over Clinton, but Clinton pulled an edge among women and Democrats who viewed the economy as top concern.

    Complicated, fascinating race. Harry F, we should know a lot more after “Super Tuesday” — Feb 5 — but it may not be over til the convention.

    Dewi, I am finding the CNN cite, cnnpolitics. com, a wealth of info on nuts and bolts, money trail, etc. Have a blast!

  • Rory

    I’m not a New Hampshire Democrat, Dewi but I think Hilary probably won because more people voted for her than voted for Obama.

    As to the reason why I’m afraid I can’t help. Our resident bean-eater probably reckons its because the majority of voting US citizens in New Hampshire are anti-American.

    But what else is to be expected from people who continue to admire such other notorious anti-Americans as: George Washington, Betsy Gray, Paul Revere, John Wayne and J Edgar Hoover?

  • Dewi

    Thanks Susan !

    And Rory : “I’m not a New Hampshire Democrat, Dewi but I think Hilary probably won because more people voted for her than voted for Obama”

    …for that you deserve a BfB tirade!

  • Greenflag

    ‘Your a Yank hater, just like Hillary, Barack, and Edwards.’

    And here are the results of the New Hampshire primary. These facts i.e numbers should appeal to your desire for facts. If you have any dificulty absorbing these facts could I suggest you return to kindergarten and learn your numbers !

    Yank Haters (Clinton, Obama, Edwards)

    261,186 votes

    Yank Lovers (McCain , Romney, Huckabee)

    186,643 votes

  • Greenflag

    ‘Our resident bean-eater probably reckons its because the majority of voting US citizens in New Hampshire are anti-American.’

    LOL 🙂 Good one.Come November same resident will no doubt discover that the majority of the American electorate are anti American . Where do they dig up these nutters 🙁

  • Dewi
  • Rory

    That was a refreshing link, Dewi. If the folk up in Michigan had thought that we Nornironers were a politically crazy bunch (as well they might) we can now laugh right back at ’em and say, “Who yall callin’ crazy now, Zebediah?”

  • Dewi

    “Who yall callin’ crazy now, Zebediah?”
    Or: Bob, you couldn’t organise a party in a harbour!

  • Dewi

    Fascinating stuff Susan – astonishing contrast in process to here. If I was faced on a Wednesday with an opinion poll deficiency in double figures in a constituency for an election the following day I’d know I’d lost.
    A couple of points:
    1) Primaries very different from caucases. If the primary reason for Clinton victory (and contradicting the opinion polls) is organisational competence then Obama in huge trouble.
    2) In my dark heart I reckon Hillary blubbing was a consequence of a female Concord focus group. Turning that facet of her personality on and off over the coming months might just be counter productive.

  • BfB

    Ha! http://tinyurl.com/2fc42w

    You Dem/libs would eat your own young.

    The Yank lovers will win in the end. If Diebold has anything to do with it…. no wait, Diebold helped Hillary….

    And the typical nutroots mind reading and motive assigning from whiteflag.
    I think it’s a combination of power drinks and facebook that sends you wackos round the bend.
    J. Edgar Hoover….

  • Dewi

    “I tried to rig it for Ron Paul, but I accidentally switched two wires and I foiled my own scheme. Sorry.”

    Now Bob that comment from your link was funny!

  • BfB

    Now Ron Paul would be a good matchup for the whiteflag. My “ACME Internet Nutter Gauge” reads the same when I grep either one of them…..

  • Greenflag

    New Hampshire -final words ?

    One American commentator put it like this !

    I am a son of New England — my father is from Framingham, Mass., my parents met in college in Maine, and over a lifetime of immersion I came to know the psyche well. The core of the older, native New Hampshire population (albeit in a state that is rapidly changing) is still made up of the sons and daughters of the original Puritans. They take civic responsibility seriously, they take care of those who need it and they take pride in process. In modern political terms, they generally don’t like negativity, they reward the downtrodden, they earnestly deliberate over their choice of candidate and they venerate the sturdy among us. In short, they are good people to have in your corner. Hillary Clinton was bloodied in New Hampshire. The people of New Hampshire saw it and didn’t like it. They saw assumptions forming and didn’t like them. Some felt they were being told what to think: the race was decided, Hillary was desperate and inauthentic. Worst of all — and this was made very clear to me by more than one person — when some in the media quietly doubted that Hillary Clinton’s emotions at that roundtable were real (there was quiet snickering about an “acting job” born of an urgent need to seem normal) it was proof to them that cynicism had taken hold of the politics/media realm, and they simply refused to believe that.

    Had Bill Clinton not famously coined the title “The Comeback Kid” for himself, his wife would have rightfully claimed it for herself in New Hampshire. That the same state rewarded these two imperfect politicians, in the same way, years apart, is remarkable.”

    Well done New Hampshire 🙂

  • Dewi

    Greenflag – good post and I’m sure the commentator is sincere. I’m not convinced on Hillary’s teras though.

  • Greenflag

    ‘I’m not convinced on Hillary’s tears though. ‘

    It appears to have convinced many although on balance I think the primary format in NH played to Hilary’s advantage more so than to Barack’s . Anyway if it was ‘staged’ it was a brilliant tactic but that’s it . It can’t be repeated .

    Seems to me that any two of Obama/Clinton /Edwards will defeat the Republicans easily come November . On the Republican side I feel sorry for McCain . He’s the only one IMO who could defeat the Dems but not this year . The USA is going through what they call a paradigm ‘shift’ that has not been seen for a generation .

    As an economic and social conservative ‘independent’ my natural leaning would be towards McCain if I had a vote. But not this year . The USA is in deep trouble -economically, internationally and domestically – the result of 7 years of ‘idiocy’ masked as ‘compassionate conservatism’ .

    Having basically ignored the Israel/Palestine problem for all of his Presideny – now in year seven of the “retards’ incumbency – we have a USA President in Israel trying to start ‘peace’ talks ? Why do the Palestinians even bother to meet with him or Condoleeza Rice ?

    *&*^%&#^&

    is all I can say:(

  • dewi

    FYI – The Economist : – RARELY have pollsters and pundits been so wrong. Riding a wave of momentum from the Iowa caucuses, which he came from behind to win, Barack Obama had every reason to expect a second victory over Hillary Clinton in the New Hampshire primary on Tuesday January 8th. Almost every poll showed him in the lead, and some gave him a double-digit advantage over Mrs Clinton. But the famously ornery voters of New Hampshire reminded the chattering class that it is the ballot-boxes that matter.

    Mrs Clinton won a narrow victory—with just 39% to Mr Obama’s 36%, or a difference of about 7,000 votes. She had long been the front-runner in the state, before Mr Obama’s Iowa momentum pushed him ahead of her in polls. But no matter: the narrative is now one of a scrappy comeback for Mrs Clinton.

    What accounts for the turnaround, and the polls’ awful predictive ability? One is that in New Hampshire independents can vote in either primary. More than expected may have voted in the Republican primary; perhaps they thought Mr Obama had the Democratic vote locked up. (Mr Obama does much better than Mrs Clinton among Republicans and independents.) Women also voted heavily for Mrs Clinton, in contrast to female voters in Iowa. Perhaps a moment of emotion, when she almost cried on Monday while answering a question about the stresses of the campaign, made her seem more human to women. And Bill Clinton’s efforts, in which he angrily said that the media had unfairly scrutinised his wife while going easy on Mr Obama, could have resonated with New Hampshire voters who don’t like being told for whom to vote by journalists.

    The race now moves to Nevada and South Carolina. John Edwards finished third in New Hampshire, as expected, and plans to continue fighting. His hopes now depend more than ever on South Carolina, which borders his native North Carolina. But Mr Obama and Mrs Clinton will still take most of the limelight: he among the states with large black populations, in particular, who were enthused by his victory in snow-white Iowa. Polls give her a lead in Nevada. Both will then pour money into “Super Tuesday”, when almost half the states in the country vote, on February 5th.

    The Republican primary did not defy the polls. But it nonetheless provides a fascinating story ahead of the South Carolina contest, and the February 5th states. John McCain repeated his 2000 victory in New Hampshire, with 37% of the vote to Mitt Romney’s 32% and Mike Huckabee’s 11%. In 2000, Mr McCain was ground down soon after by George Bush’s powerful Republican establishment machine. But this time, the machine has no candidate. And so the race remains open.

    Mr McCain remains loathed by many at the top of the party, for voting against George Bush’s tax cuts, for campaign-finance reform and, more recently, for co-writing a bill that would help illegal immigrants gain American citizenship. So while New Hampshire’s unusual voters pulled him through, his path to the nomination is far from clear. Mr Huckabee will hope to reprise his Iowa win in South Carolina, which like Iowa is full of religious Republicans.

    But these two are not the only ones still in the race. Mitt Romney came second in both states, and won a small and little-watched vote in Wyoming. He can plausibly claim to be the only candidate who is acceptable to both religious and economic conservatives and has a broad geographic appeal: he has taken first or second in a mid-western, north-eastern and mountain state so far, and many polls put him second in South Carolina too. Repeatedly taking second place is not the most dramatic way to win, but as polarising figures such as Mr McCain and Mr Huckabee pull the party this way and that, everyone’s second favourite may yet have a chance.

    Mr Romney loosened up after his secondplace in Iowa, and many thought he won two debates held over the weekend before New Hampshire. Rudy Giuliani is also hoping for a late surge; polls still show him in the lead in Florida, the biggest state to vote before February 5th, and he still has nationwide appeal, although social conservatives distrust him.

    Four men plausibly have a shot in the Republican race. The Democrats will almost certainly nominate either the first black or the first woman to a big-party ticket, after a see-saw race. An irony is that this year’s front-loaded primary schedule, in which many contests were stacked early and back-to-back, was supposed to make it easier for an establishment candidate to wrap up a nomination and prepare for the general election. The Republican and Democratic bigwigs who dreamed up this scenario never had anything like 2008’s race in mind.

  • BfB

    Food for thought…

    http://tinyurl.com/34aj9m

    ‘Many Britons will feel it would be rather nice to have a vote, too. Well, maybe not a whole vote: I would settle for one worth 50 per cent of those cast by American citizens.

    After all, since we are a strategic colony of the US, it would be nice to have even a marginal say in how the empire chooses to dispose our goodwill and our blood and treasure. Such considerations were explicit in the founding of the US, and what’s sauce for the goose…’

  • dewi

    And your view Bob? – be sure to cloud in piles of vitriol….

  • BfB

    You’re not misting up like Billary are you, Dewi? I hope I haven’t singed your delicate sensibilities.

    The article makes sense to me.
    ‘The only question that seriously occupied me for ‘some time was what will all the BDS sufferers do next January when George W. Bush will no longer be president? I have long ago given up hope that they will accept that he was president for only 8 years and many events happened in the United States and in the world without his involvement.’
    Two things made me go against that decision. One is the usual blather about the need for non-Americans to take part in the election in order to ensure that those misguided yanks elect someone the tranzis and European elites will like who will understand the complexity of the modern world.’
    ‘I am not going to waste valuable time analyzing this extraordinary piffle but shall merely ask two questions: how exactly is the rest of the world going to vote in the American elections, given that most of it has no elections to vote in at home; and would Evita Neefs agree that Europeans should be allowed to vote in their own elections and, indeed, on whether they want the Constitutional Reform Lisbon Treaty imposed on them.’
    Brilliant stuff. I only ‘cloud in piles of vitriol….’ when a loud mouth bully is spewing some piffle or another. And will continue to do so.
    Go get yourself a hankie.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Bob, you’re getting a bit boring. Are you going to contribute anything that isn’t ad hominem ?

    The fun and games haven’t started yet, folks. I wouldn’t say Billary made a comeback – instead she successfully defended turf that she couldn’t possibly afford to lose. I still reckon she’ll utterly tank outside of the northern Eastern Seaboard. Would you want a national leader who bursts into tears in public when under stress ? That little display was ridiculous.

  • BfB

    No, CS…I RESPOND to ad hominem behaviour. I present opinions, and facts to support them. I am touchy about bare teeth anti-us behavior. Man up, for Christs sake… sovnarcom.su … Says alot.

  • BfB
  • Rory

    Hillary Clinton did not cry tears during her change of tack speech, she did come noticeably close to tears. It was the acceptance of that portrayal that honest emotion and, moreover, the discipline to control it, that I believe may have been the factors that won wavering and undecided voters to her side.

    But who knows? I’ve been wrong in the past and am generally wrong in the present ( at least according to Herself who knows best) and I expect I will be wrong in the future.

    Yet somehow I think I might be right this time. After all every dog must have his day.

  • Harry Flashman

    Oh dear Rory you poor deluded fool, Hillary is the ultimate machine politician, she has neither emotion nor scruple, she does precisely what the party wonks programme her to do.

    “The focus groups say we admire a tough woman? Ok make her do tough woman. We’ve overdone the toughness, get her to get all teary and well up in her next interview. Yes, just like that, perfect.”

    Can someone tell me who this surprise friend is in the crowd that Hillary spots on her arrival at every venue? You know the person that causes her to step on to the podium to resounding cheers and almost exactly three seconds after she arrives she spots this person, opens her mouth and eyes wide in surprised delight, points vaguely to the middle distance and nods or mouths something to them.

    You’re not telling me she really can still be surprised at all these individuals who suddenly “ohmagawsh!” turn up at her rallies?

    It couldn’t be that like her husband she’s just a complete phoney?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Dewi: “On the election I’d love to know the view of any NH democrats on how that happened. ”

    Barak led in men 42% to Hillary’s 30%
    Hill led in women, 47% to 34%

    They split the “just off the fence vote” 38 to 38

    Not a NH-ite, but best guess — women vote, college students don’t.

    Susan: “Complicated, fascinating race. Harry F, we should know a lot more after “Super Tuesday”—Feb 5—but it may not be over til the convention. ”

    This season makes me nostalgic for the old “dark and smokey room” approach.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Greenflag: “It appears to have convinced many although on balance I think the primary format in NH played to Hilary’s advantage more so than to Barack’s . Anyway if it was ‘staged’ it was a brilliant tactic but that’s it . It can’t be repeated . ”

    Actually, there are a couple more states that play to her favor — New York springs to mind.

    New Hampshire is nothing special — I think Iowa, for all its idiosyncratic aspects, has done a slightly better job of predicting the eventual candidate, at least since they discarded the smoke-filled room.

    Greenflag: “Seems to me that any two of Obama/Clinton /Edwards will defeat the Republicans easily come November .”

    Uh-huh, and all of last year, Hillary and Romney were all but unstoppable… There is ten months to go and all sorts of things can go wrong for either side. All the candidates are flawed — Hillary is divisive, Obama is vague, Edwards is an empty suit with a nice hair-cut, Thompson seems to be sleep-walking, McCain is idiosyncratic in behavior, Romney has a political sea-change from left to right, whilst Huckabee just plain scares me…

    Comrade Stalin: ” I still reckon she’ll utterly tank outside of the northern Eastern Seaboard. Would you want a national leader who bursts into tears in public when under stress ? That little display was ridiculous. ”

    Please, let us get back to reality, CS — that moment was staged, all that was missing was Cecil B. Demille with his swagger-stick and beret. If Hilly were really that fragile, she would have gone to pot long before now.

    Rory: “It was the acceptance of that portrayal that honest emotion and, moreover, the discipline to control it, that I believe may have been the factors that won wavering and undecided voters to her side. ”

    *snort*

    Mrs. Clinton hasn’t had an honest emotion since the Eisenhower administration.

  • lib2016

    “Mrs. Clinton hasn’t had an honest emotion since the Eisenhower administration.”

    There is a rule about playing ball not man on this board. DC may honestly believe what he is saying but I don’t see how he can possibly be in a position to know it as a fact.

    I realise that the ‘ball not man’ rule has been relaxed but surely this sort of nonsense has to be stepped on?

  • Dewi

    BAck to Michigan

    Some confusion

    “Leaders of both state parties expect to regain the lost delegates at their respective conventions”

    Seems very strange that Obama and Edwards not standing if that’s the case.

  • Greenflag

    ‘There is ten months to go and all sorts of things can go wrong for either side.’

    True but the issues which are driving this election will not go away in 10 months – The Iraq War- The Economy- 2 million foreclosures – The 30 year long economic emisseration of the American ‘middle class’- Bush’s perceived ruinous foreign policies – a devaluing dollar – health insurance fiasco- immigration reform turmoil- etc etc etc. America knows it has been ‘conned’ by the ‘conservative republicans’ . Even many liberal Republicans know it and will probably abstain come November .

    America is shifting from centre right to centre left. Even the ‘evangelicals’ are moving left on economic issues. Bush’s compassionate conservatism will be seen by historians as being as flawed as soviet totalitarianism. It’s interesting to see that as Bush & Cheney have lost the confidence of the American people they have resorted to the tactics of the totalitarian regimes they profess to abhor -Guantanamo- etc.

    ‘All the candidates are flawed’

    Full marks for the obvious 🙂 IIRC What have the following flawed candidates got in common?

    Nixon , Kennedy, Blair, Paisley, McGuinness, Ahern,Clinton etc etc etc etc etcetc .

    IIRC they were elected to lead their respective countries .

  • Greenflag

    Correction

    ‘What have the following flawed candidates got in common? Nixon , Kennedy, Blair, Paisley, McGuinness, Ahern,Clinton etc etc etc etc etcetc .

    Should read!

    What HAD the following flawed candidates got in common?

    Nixon , Kennedy, Blair, Paisley, McGuinness, Ahern,Clinton etc etc etc etc etcetc .

  • BfB

    ‘The Economy- 2 million foreclosures – The 30 year long economic emisseration of the American ‘middle class’- Bush’s ‘perceived’ ruinous foreign policies – a devaluing dollar – health insurance fiasco- immigration reform turmoil-‘liberal Republicans’
    ‘America is shifting from centre right to centre left.”totalitarian regimes’

    All of the above are result of liberal Democrats, from the lowest rated Congress in HISTORY, to the sneaky, underhanded, billionaire control freaks. (Soros) The silent majority will once again put this paper tiger in it’s place.
    It’s seems whiteflag, you are a typical sockpuppet
    with not much original thought. Well, you always have voter fraud to fall back on.

  • Dewi

    Tell you what Bob – tell me how much Bush has reduced Central Government will you?

  • Wilde Rover

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

  • Dewi

    I’ll answer meself:

    The government spent $2.3 trillion and ran a $412 billion deficit in 2004, compared with the $1.8 trillion it spent and the $86 billion surplus it ran in the final full year of the Clinton administration.

    According to the Washington Post

  • BfB

    Move along, there’s nothing left to see here….

    ‘ Barack Obama has won the presidential endorsement of Sen. John Kerry, the Democrats’ 2004 nominee who lost to George W. Bush.

    Kerry, a senator from Massachusetts, plans to announce his support Thursday at a rally at the College of Charleston, said a Democrat familiar with Kerry’s decision. The 2004 nominee will argue that Obama can best unite the country and has the potential to create transformational change, the person said.’

    transformational change

    Dewi…….investigate pork barrel spending by the CONGRESS……
    Report back..

  • Will people kindly stop feeding the troll.

    If you really must have his kind of nonsense, don’t take sloppy seconds: go to the fountainhead (which usually offers some factual basis, and can be amusing in a “laugh at the baboon’s bum” sort of way).

  • Dewi

    Sorry Malcolm – Behind the belligerent offensive exterior lies a sensitive informed caring bloke. Liked the link – might not add to my favourites just yet.

  • Greenflag

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Blackwater sic Iraq custodiet 🙁

  • BfB

    Not one factual reference to dispute my points. A few labels, the odd assignment of motive, a bit of mind reading…..My GOD, it’s Assachusetts!!!

    I’m off, I’ll leave you drooling mutual admirants, to your communal nose picking.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Greenflag: “True but the issues which are driving this election will not go away in 10 months – The Iraq War- The Economy- 2 million foreclosures – The 30 year long economic emisseration of the American ‘middle class’- Bush’s perceived ruinous foreign policies – a devaluing dollar – health insurance fiasco- immigration reform turmoil- etc etc etc. America knows it has been ‘conned’ by the ‘conservative republicans’ . Even many liberal Republicans know it and will probably abstain come November . ”

    American elections have turned on such minutiae as a crying candidate (oddly enough, with one win (Clinton) and one loss. Likewise, as much as they would like to, the Democrats aren’t going to be running against Bush… and are presently throwing muck at one another, signalling the traditional “circular firing squad” formation, used in past elections. Obama will start to get the Dean treatment — the radio is already discussing one indicted associate, with, I am sure, his membership in Trinity United Church of Christ will bubble to the fore — the pastor is a loose cannon and, arguably, a black seperatist… we will get another iteration of Hilary’s failures, et al and ad nauseum — and that just the Democratic primaries, with the Dems pegging one another…

    Political quiz — who first brought up the Massachusetts furlough program as a political issue durring the Dukakis run?

    As for who will vote for whom, that will have to come down to cases. I’d vote against Huckabee in a heart-beat, preferring a real liberal socialist to religious liberal socialist who tarts up his beliefs as “heroic Christianity.”

    lib2016: “I realise that the ‘ball not man’ rule has been relaxed but surely this sort of nonsense has to be stepped on? ”

    Lib, if the woman had honest emotions, she would have snapped long ago, probably somewhere between the Healthcare commission fiasco and the outting of her husband’s serial indiscretions. This is not what I would call a normal personality. She, like her husband, is an uncommonly good liar — mayhap better than Bill, seeing as she wasn’t caught.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Dread Cthulu, if the American public voted on the basis of such muckraking then surely they would get the representatives they deserve. I’m wondering, though, to what extent muckraking actually hurt previous failed Presidential bids.

  • Comrade Stalin

    BfB trolls:

    The silent majority will once again put this paper tiger in it’s place.

    Are you sure ? Majorities have a tendancy, albeit rare, to lose elections in the USA.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Comrade Stalin: “if the American public voted on the basis of such muckraking then surely they would get the representatives they deserve.”

    The excercise of democracy guarantees that the public gets the government they deserve, Josef, at least in an honest representative democracy.

    And, to be honest, they do it to one another, drawing in even such august (if over-rated) institutions as the NYT. I’m not saying it’s right and I’m not saying it’s fair — all I’m doing is saying that it is — they do this to one another damn near every time.

    But, hey, who am I to get in the way of the traditional internal intramurals of the Democratic party? If they can’t keep all their ships sailing in the same direction, whose fault is that?

  • Wilde Rover

    Bob from Boston

    “Not one factual reference to dispute my points.”

    Not one? Poor Bob from Boston, one should avoid absolutes in arguments. I think that my linking the articles pertaining to Romney’s flip flopping is at least one.

    “I’m off, I’ll leave you drooling mutual admirants, to your communal nose picking.”

    Ah yes Bob. Slugger: divided by ideology, united by nasal mining.

    Comrade,

    “Are you sure ? Majorities have a tendancy, albeit rare, to lose elections in the USA.”

    Rare over the life of the Republic; common over the last few years.

    It puts one in mind of the World Wrestling Federation.

  • Yvonne

    with just 39% to Mr Obama’s 36%,

    If it was this close why was everyone saying Obama would win?

    Why were non-license fee funded stations able to get hold of polls that showed Clinton winning?

  • Wilde Rover

    “If it was this close why was everyone saying Obama would win?”

    Yes Yvonne, there are many questions.

    Dennis Kucinich seems to have a few questions, although it seems unlikely that his call for a recount of New Hampshire will see any of them answered.

    It is a cruel saying, but perhaps people do get the governments they deserve.

    Sorry Bob, missed this one earlier:

    1. Now Ron Paul would be a good matchup for the whiteflag. My “ACME Internet Nutter Gauge” reads the same when I grep either one of them…..
    Posted by BfB on Jan 09, 2008 @ 05:38 PM

    Very good Bob. So what you are saying is that you have a device that tells you who is an “Internet Nutter” so you don’t have to bother your head with things like policies or positions or the dreaded thinking?

    And what, prey tell, is the name of this device?

    TV?