Currently in the Assembly….

The Minister for Education is currently in the middle of a tirade (wont work in Firefox, at least for me). Apparently opposition to the political use of the Irish language in Education is just “bias and prejudice”.

  • Bert

    Sounds like the Minister has it spot on then

  • nmc

    political use of the Irish language in Education

    Can’t get streaming media in work, can you explain the above? What is political in the use of the language in schools? Are some schools offering politics A-levels in Irish? Or is it your own prejudice Michael, in that all spoken Irish is political and not cultural?

  • heck

    “Apparently opposition to the political use of the Irish language in Education is just “bias and prejudice””

    sounds right to me

  • The DUPes would need to keep quiet about this seeing as they’re about to sell out on this issue to keep the grammar schools.

  • Free Agent

    Sorry to point out the big white elephant in the middle of the room guys, but isn’t there a severe lack of demand for education in this type of medium? hence a perfectly justifiable level of opposition to tax payers money being spent on it? and no I don’t support the DUP or any unionist party for that matter.

  • Bradán Feasa

    The bias against Irish in the north by hard line unionist amazes me. This archaic bias against minority languages disappeared in Scotland and Wales in the 1970s. This anti Irish language prejudice is embarrassing at best and has elements of ‘our language is superior and so are we’ at worst.

  • pith

    “bias and prejudice”. Is that not overuse of the English language?

  • Bert

    “Sorry to point out the big white elephant in the middle of the room guys, but isn’t there a severe lack of demand for education in this type of medium?”

    No, quite the opposite.

  • Dec

    Despite the scant detail in the thread, I’m assuming Shilliday is frothing at the prospect of 3 new Irish-medium schools being opened. Apparently the champions of ‘culturally-diverse Britain’ can’t get their heads round a bit if, well, cultural diversity. Glad Michael’s got time to watch live streams on the Assembley on a Monday afternoon though.

    but isn’t there a severe lack of demand for education in this type of medium?hence a perfectly justifiable level of opposition to tax payers money being spent on it?

    Free Agent

    Hardly. The 3 schools in question have enrollment figures of between 105 and 140. The Minister is reacting to public demand. But as I’ve said before, if saving money is Unionist’s real passion then maybe they should ask the loyal institutions to cut down on a few hundred marches each year saving the taxpayer a few million.

  • nmc

    but isn’t there a severe lack of demand for education in this type of medium?

    No, obviously not what with the increasing numbers of Irish Language schools, and high demand for places.

    The money aspect is a diversionary tactic. Shall we start dividing the amount of tax money spent by political allegiance? Do you think the twelfth (including bonfires, security considerations and rioting) is free? Nope, costs the UK millions each and every year.

    Break that down, as we’re incredibly concerned about the way that money is spent in a fair way, 60 Million UK taxpayers spending fourty fortunes on the twelfth, an event designed for the needs of < 1 million people. How do you justify that? Or perhaps we can just spend the insignificant amount of money without trying to balance the books between orange and green.

  • Pounder

    Overuse of English in an arguement about the Irish language? The Dark Lord of Irony is apeased by Irish politics once again.

  • pith

    Pounder, completley and utterly.

  • George

    Pounder,
    “Overuse of English in an arguement about the Irish language? The Dark Lord of Irony is apeased by Irish politics once again.”

    Why would a person have to discuss funding for Irish-medium schools through the Irish language?

    Maybe the Irish Republic should simply fund Irish-language education on an island-wide basis and be done with this charade.

  • Can’t blame the poor chap for his shite English. Probably he only speaks it as a second language.

    *retires whistling*

  • Pounder

    Try re-reading what I said George [i]overuse of English in an arguement about the Irish Language[/i] it was a vein attempt by me to be funny and difuse the tension in this thread. Why do so many Unionists lack a sense of humor and an utter unappreciation of irony. You’d think people claiming the same nationality as the Monty Python team would understand the concept of irony. I feel my comments here are wasted sometimes.

  • bob wilson

    Ziznivy
    ‘The DUPes would need to keep quiet about this seeing as they’re about to sell out on this issue to keep the grammar schools.’
    Why so – academic selection can only be changed by cross community support

  • pith

    Monty Python? Nationalist? Oh.

  • DK

    “”Sorry to point out the big white elephant in the middle of the room guys, but isn’t there a severe lack of demand for education in this type of medium?”

    No, quite the opposite.”

    Well there were several Irish language schools in the list of schools without enough pupils in them that caused some controversy earlier in the year.

  • Bob. The issue will effectively be put to bed and some form of academic selection can be decided upon. The selection issue is currently in limbo with nobody supporting the status quo. Concessions on Irish Language schools will be the price to pay to reach an agreement on selection.

  • pith

    And Pounder, what do you mean that unionists have no sense of humour or appreciation of irony? Did you not read Jeffery Donaldson’s recent coments regarding Folks on the Hill.

    “… as a leading character on the show, I get a little bit of a dig…”

    “…everyone who knows me for real knows that isn’t the real Jeffrey Donaldson at all…”

    Put that in your ironic pipe and smoke it.

  • merrie

    No worries about streaming. Opened link in Safari, then used Quick Time for the live stream. Though by now they are talking about something else.

  • To watch the video in Firefox you need the the Windows Media Player plug-in… https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:7

  • gaelgannaire

    Ziznivy,

    ‘Concessions on Irish Language schools will be the price to pay to reach an agreement on selection’

    For example?

  • George

    It was certainly wasted on me pounder but thanks for the hammer to make me eventually see the light. Even if irony is wasted when you need hammers.

  • Lorraine

    in the gaelic speaking communties of the Hebrides, one of the defenders of their gaelic heritage is “the wee Frees” – the Free Presbyterian church. why can we not be like that here and free a language older than the arguments we have from the predjudices of our arguments?

  • “why can we not be like that here and free a language older than the arguments we have from the predjudices of our arguments?”

    Whilst people produce sentences like that in English, no time or money should be wasted on the Irish Language.

  • “For example?”

    Not opposing the opening of new Irish Language schools whilst existing schools which there is a demand for remain underfunded. There will be Irish Language schools in every board area under this deal.

  • gaelgannaire

    Zizivy,

    ‘Not opposing the opening of new Irish Language schools whilst existing schools which there is a demand for remain underfunded’.

    Not a perfect example of the Queens English but anyway.

    – IM schools are just started by by parents who then seek to attract as many pupils as possible in order to gain official recognition. The Council for IME does not have the authority to open a school.

    So, there is very little that ‘opposition’ can do about it. Even a unionist education minister would be bound by the GFA and Education Act 1998, although they could certainely trow a spanner or two into the works.

  • interested

    ziznivy
    “The DUPes would need to keep quiet about this seeing as they’re about to sell out on this issue to keep the grammar schools.”

    I wouldn’t bank on it!

  • My reply was functional and typed in a hurry, but it certainly isn’t comparable to the monstrously clumsy , barely readable sentence Lorraine produced. The point is that spanners in the works will no longer be dropped, as it were. I’m not privy to exactly what this horse-trading will entail, but I’m informed that a deal involving Irish Language schools and academic selection is very much on the cards.

  • Fraggle

    Ziznivy, how about sticking to the topic and stopping the grammar-nazism?

    Does anyone have a link to that list of schools with low pupil numbers?

  • Fraggle, there is actually a serious point. Why not concentrate on delivering a high quality education in existing schools and concentratin on subjects pertinent to the real world, rather than pandering to a tiny minority of parents intent on playing political games with their children’s futures?

  • Sean

    Ziznivy
    ‘The DUPes would need to keep quiet about this seeing as they’re about to sell out on this issue to keep the grammar schools.’
    Why so – academic selection can only be changed by cross community support

    Posted by bob wilson on Sep 24, 2007 @ 03:37 PM

    Sinn Fein is just sitting on their hands waiting for the DUPers to force through the Giants Causeway Fiasco and then once the DUPers show that ministers CAN get their way with out going through Storomont and then we will see about how things settle out.

    By the way academic selection IS dead! What remains to be seen is what will replace it

  • noel adams

    Because local bigots version of history has got in the way. For instance one edward carson was a hurler for trinity. I am not able to say if doring the peroid he plaid at croker but it is possible. this is not a plea for ogra SF to reclaim his statue by tapeing a hurley in that hand but a call for a bit of common.

  • George

    Ziznivy,
    “rather than pandering to a tiny minority of parents intent on playing political games with their children’s futures?”

    You really don’t get it, do you? A lot of people actually like the idea of having their children educated through Irish.

    Irish-medium schools are the top performers academically south of the border and I wouldn’t be surprised if this was replicated north of it.

  • Fraggle

    “Whilst people produce sentences like that in English, no time or money should be wasted on the Irish Language.”

    Luckily money spent on Irish Language education isn’t wasted then, isn’t it?

    Am I right in saying that when a (unionist) MP asked about cost westminster, the reply was that children educated through Irish were costing less per pupil than the average?

  • ulsterfan

    Sean
    If you think SF will give DUP a free run with Giants Causeway in the hope of getting away with some dubious deal on education then they are more foolish than I thought.
    This is the era of accountability and long may it last.

  • fair_deal

    Lorraine

    “in the gaelic speaking communties of the Hebrides, one of the defenders of their gaelic heritage is “the wee Frees” – the Free Presbyterian church. why can we not be like that here and free a language older than the arguments we have from the predjudices of our arguments?”

    1. Different place, different history, different context. By and large the Gaelic language movement has avoided the cul-de-sac of being a language for nationalists.
    2. Its cherrypicking the bits you like. If the nationalist community wants to become evangelical protestants, have a conservative/biblical view of politics as well as use gaelic then I envisage Unionism and the DUP in particular developing a larger comfort zone around the use of it.

    “Because local bigots version of history has got in the way. For instance one edward carson was a hurler for trinity. I am not able to say if doring the peroid he plaid at croker but it is possible. this is not a plea for ogra SF to reclaim his statue by tapeing a hurley in that hand but a call for a bit of common.”

    Sorry to get in the way of a dream. It is very unlikely. It would have been a bit hard to play hurling at croker for trinity whenever he left trinity years before either the GAA was formed or Croker was used for/associated with Gaelic sports.

    IIRC there is also the slight problem that the rule book of that particular club was closer to hockey than the rules for hurling later adopted by the GAA.

  • gaelgannaire

    fair_deal,

    “By and large the Gaelic language movement has avoided the cul-de-sac of being a language for nationalists”.

    Even from your point of you thats not entirely true …
    http://snp.org/people/westminster/angus-macneil-mp/

  • BonarLaw

    Sean

    “By the way academic selection IS dead! What remains to be seen is what will replace it”

    The 11+ may be dead but academic selection is not- everyone knows a Common Entrance Test will replace the current state sponsored system.

  • observer

    our language is superior and so are we’ –

    english is superior, it is the language of the world.

  • observer

    By the way academic selection IS dead! What remains to be seen is what will replace it
    Posted by Sean on Sep 24, 2007 @ 05:05 PM

    Sean, i think youll find it is the Irish language that is dead, there will still be some form of academic selection

  • Pancho’s Horse

    I think that it’s too good a point to gloss over,the millions spent policing the Orange/Black/Purple/pink? Order marches. For decades they have used their personal police force to flaunt their “Britishness” – a police force that we had to pay for too and none of us in it! Irish people here pay taxes/rates etc so why can’t we have a say in how it’s spent. If there was a grant for learning Irish or free Kash & Karry cards, we natives would be trampled in the rush.And how can you be British when there’s no such country as Britain.

  • observer

    And how can you be British when there’s no such country as Britain.

    – how can you be irish when you dont live, or werent born in Ireland?

    police force that we had to pay for too and none of us in it! – stop believing the SF crap, if there were no catholics in the RUC why did SF spend time murdering them?

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Two small points, Observer. Firstly, no matter how you spin things, this is still Ireland. It may not be the Free State or the ‘Republic of Ireland’. Secondly, you seem confused about the RUC. There may have been Catholics in it but there were certainly no Nationalists.A person from India, who came to say Bradford in the ’50s would have grandchildren by now – two generations of people born in England. They are now English – OK? People who were planted here 400 years ago, surely their 10th generation descendants are Irish by now? When are you going to let go of Mammy Mainland’s apron strings and be your own people?

  • fair_deal

    gael

    An SNP MP does not a “gaelic language movement” make.

  • gaelgannaire

    Fair_deal,

    Of course not, but you cannot dismiss that the people of the heartland of Gaelic in Scotland chose a nationalist as their MP, maybe somethings are not as different.

    BTW

    “If the nationalist community wants to become evangelical protestants, have a conservative/biblical view of politics as well as use gaelic then I envisage Unionism and the DUP in particular developing a larger comfort zone around the use of it”

    Please clarify, are you saying that that the problem with Irish speakers is that they are Catholic and that you believe that if they weren’t that there would be no problem?

  • fair_deal

    gaelgannaire

    PS it was the Labour Lib Dem governmnet who brought forward the gaelic language act of 2005. Also Angus McNeil is a “native speaker” so he would have spoken Gaelic before he was even politically aware.

  • gaelgannaire

    FD

    ‘Angus McNeil is a “native speaker” so he would have spoken Gaelic before he was even politically aware’

    so …?

  • Chris Donnelly

    Why not concentrate on delivering a high quality education in existing schools and concentratin on subjects pertinent to the real world, rather than pandering to a tiny minority of parents intent on playing political games with their children’s futures?

    Same was said of integrated education movement, Ziznivy.

    Oops- forgot the DUP’s latest line was to close all catholic, Irish medium and integrated schools (check DUP MLA Michelle McIlveen of the Education Committee for that priceless reminder of why educationalists are grateful the DUP have yet to get their hands on Education.)

  • fair_deal

    gaelgannaire

    “Please clarify, are you saying that that the problem with Irish speakers is that they are Catholic and that you believe that if they weren’t that there would be no problem? ”

    Nope. First, I did not restrict my comments to the religious views of the Free P’s but political views and linguistic heritage as well. Second, my comment was to show the serious flaws of cherrypicking from somewhere else. If you want to apply the norms of somewhere else then you have to go the whole hog not just ask for the bits you like to be\ applied. Hope that clears that up for you.

  • fair_deal

    gaelgannaire

    So his gaelic speaking came first not the politics.

  • Dewi

    http://www.wfn.org/1997/12/msg00105.html

    And that

    http://www.ultach.dsl.pipex.com/english/Presbyterian%20and%20Gaelic.doc

    Fascinating stuff on Presbyterianism worship in Irish at the present day.

    “english is superior, it is the language of the world.”

    Observer is superiority determined by popularity ?

    Ziv – a deal in the offing ? Why not consider this subject on its merits.

    Can’t remember who wanted to know about closing low roll schools but

    http://www.deni.gov.uk/index/85-schools/10-types_of_school-nischools_pg/schools_-_types_of_school-_irish-medium_schools_pg/schools_-_types_of_school_lists_of_irishmedium_schools_pg.htm

    (Sorry – don’t know how to reduce length of the link)

    That’s the list – some consolidation was considered recently as bigger schools were opened close to smaller schools – but the pattern is of growth.

  • páid

    “This archaic bias against minority languages disappeared in Scotland and Wales in the 1970s.”

    bradán, they’re not against “minority languages” in general, just one in particular.

  • fair_deal

    bradan

    I’m afraid you may been misinterpreting the Welsh situation.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6256142.stm

  • Dewi

    Your point Fair deal ? It’s a struggle but I’d put the debate into four historic phases:

    1) I’d love the language to survive, but…
    2) I’d love the language to survive, how ?..
    3) I’d love a bilingual Wales, but…
    4) I’d love a bilingual Wales, how ?

    I reckon, consensually we are about at 3.5. Discussion and debate seems to be about tactics rather than any great principles. Personal preference is concentrating on:

    a) Getting language heard. Train station announcements, rugby stadium announcements
    Assembly speeches all good stuff.

    b)Now, to normalise things I want Welsh on my cornflake packets just like Sean has French in Canada !!

  • fair_deal

    Dewi

    1. That the position in Wales is not necessarily as pro as bradan was describing it.
    2. Therfore opposition is not as he was described an “archaic bias”

  • páid

    FD,

    from the report you link…

    “The current Welsh Language Act came into force in 1993 and put Welsh on an equal footing with English with regard to the public sector in Wales.”

    The opinion poll refers to an replacement of this existing Act with a more powerful pro-Welsh Act.

  • fair_deal

    CD

    “forgot the DUP’s latest line was to close all catholic, Irish medium and integrated schools ”

    Nothing “latest line” about it a single state system has been policy for years. Also integrated schools wouldn’t close, the state system would become largely integrated in its own right.

  • fair_deal

    Paid

    I know and it shows no appetite for going beyond existing provision.

  • gaelgannaire

    FD,

    A Tadhg in a state school does not an integrated make.

  • observer

    There may have been Catholics in it but there were certainly no Nationalists –

    I suppose thats what SF said just before they murdered them

  • Dewi

    “I know and it shows no appetite for going beyond existing provision.”

    I won’t debate with you on that because you might well be right.

    The truly fundamental point is about philosophy. Do we want the celtic languages to survive as living modern languages ? – If the answer is “no” then do nowt – if the answer is “yes” then u gotta do stuff – we, I think, have decided that the answer is “yes” but still debating what has to be done,

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Observer, SF is a political party. Don’t you mean the PIRA? And still it goes on ……….. there won’t be any republicans in the PSNI!

  • páid

    FD,

    “I know and it shows no appetite for going beyond existing provision”

    and we both know that there is no ‘existing provision’ in NI.

    No appetite?

    From your link…… “The poll found 24% thought all private business should be bilingual”

    Given that Welsh speakers are only around 20% of the population, that is a stunningly high figure for private business, and the Welsh Language Movement are to be congratulated.

    It would appear Welsh speakers have a very large appetite for change.

  • Mick Fealty
  • RG Cuan

    FOLKS

    The BBC poll mentioned above carried a loaded question. View Cymdeithas Yr Iaith Gymraeg’s response here – http://cymdeithas.org/2007/07/02/cymdeithas_reject_bbc_poll.html

    FAIR DEAL

    Scottish Gaelic speakers, be they Protestant, Catholic, Muslim or Atheist, are today more likely to be pro-Independence than not. Many however, especially in older generations, still feel an attachment with Britain.

    OBSERVER

    What planet are you on?

  • fair_deal

    Paid

    “and we both know that there is no ‘existing provision’ in NI. ”

    I am afraid I know there is. This is not 1950’s Northern Ireland. It is not a year zero for Irish.

    What is part 3 recognition (with 36 paragraphs for implementation across a number of public services) under the European Charter?
    What is the statutory requirement on the Executive to produce a strategy for the promotion of the Irish language?
    What is the Irish Language Broadcasting Fund?
    What is the state funded Irish medium sector plus a promotional body for it in Northern Ireland?
    What is Foras na Gaelige?
    What is the Ultach Trust?
    Etc

    None of this is provision?

    As well as Irish specific measure language groups also gain support from other state funding opportunities such as Arts and Community Regeneration Funding.

    RG Cuan

    Do they make explicit links between the two issues or do they try and develop cross-party support?

  • RG Cuan

    FAIR DEAL

    Just like Gaelic speakers here, Gaelic speakers in Scotland do not make explicit links between politics and their indigenous language.

    It’s the politicians who sometimes do that.

  • fair_deal

    RG Cuan

    “Just like Gaelic speakers here…do not make explicit links between politics and their indigenous language.”

    I am pretty sure that is mistaken but the relevant material is at home so I will respond later this evening.

  • Pounder

    This is an opportunity for real politics to prevail. The reasons that Unionists are putting up against the IRL are petty and stupid in my opinion.

    If this was any other country in the world the position would be to concede it gracefuly and then the Nationalists would owe them a favour. Thats how political deal making is done, not sitting on your high horse screaming NO NO NEVER NEVER. No fecking wonder the Assembly has already been reduced to the political equivilant of a dog chasing it’s tail.

  • fair_deal

    Pounder

    “If this was any other country in the world the position would be to concede it gracefuly and then the Nationalists would owe them a favour. Thats how political deal making is done,”

    Godd political deals tend to have reciprocity not a nudge and wink about the future.

  • RG Cuan

    FAIR DEAL

    What material do you need? Some old quote from SF? As has been noted before, they are hardly representative of the Irish language population.

    99% of Irish Gaelic speakers do not use their language for political reasons. Sin sin. Just ask us.

  • Sean

    Sean
    If you think SF will give DUP a free run with Giants Causeway in the hope of getting away with some dubious deal on education then they are more foolish than I thought.
    This is the era of accountability and long may it last.

    Posted by ulsterfan on Sep 24, 2007 @ 06:29 PM

    Oh but for all the changes SF seek that meet their agenda the Giants Causeway is a small price to pay for the unfettered power of key ministers in the place SF most want to change

    Especially as this Fiasco is increasingly blowing up in the DUPers faces.

    Dupers are playing right into their hands how can the DUPers object to an action they themselves have ordained, I hope sweeney made it worth while for them

  • fair_deal

    RG

    “What material do you need? Some old quote from SF? As has been noted before,

    I can remember the SF quotes from memory. It is other material I want to raise

    “they are hardly representative of the Irish language population. ”

    Hmmm. It just happens to be the party who demanded an ILA.

  • Sean

    b)Now, to normalise things I want Welsh on my cornflake packets just like Sean has French in Canada !!

    Posted by Dewi on Sep 24, 2007 @ 10:59 PM

    Thats Flocons A Mais to you buddy lmao

    I suppose thats what SF said just before they murdered them

    Posted by observer on Sep 24, 2007 @ 11:36 PM

    I know its part of your brain washing but honestly show me a single SF murder

  • gaelgannaire

    Did anyone see the piece in the Irish News today about bilingualism holding off dementia?

    So, to sum up, for the same price as a monolingual education you get 1. two languages, 2. better results and 3. less chance of developing dementia.

    Seems like a good deal to me.

  • páid

    FD,

    When I talk about provision I mean provision to do business with the State in Irish like the Welsh have. Have now.
    Yes, already. Like, in the bag and all that.

    Of course, if the State does not want to do business in Irish with Irish people, like it does in English with British people, then perhaps we should replace it with a State that does.

    If NI wants nationalist loyalty, it has to earn it – though there will be a lot of folk happy if you don’t try.

    And they’re not just Unionists.

  • Rory

    “Did anyone see the piece in the Irish News today about bilingualism holding off dementia?”

    No, but clearly the sooner unionists avail themselves of education in the Irish language the better for their mental health.

    It may not only be dementia which they are staving off. Martin Dillon in his book The Trigger Men (Mainstream Publishing. 2004. pbk £7.99), commenting on the prevelance of sexual psychopaths within the ranks of Loyalism remarks that the unit for treating such disorders at Downpatrick Hospital was closed during the Troubles because of a lack of patients, the inference being that those who suffered from such disorder were now finding natural asylum serving God and Ulster by the time-honoured method of slaughtering Catholics.

  • fair_deal

    RG

    My apologies but I can’t find the document I wanted – my “filing system” fails me. It was research with attendees at irish language classes which included questions about why they were learning the language.

    Do you know one I mean? I am almost certain it was one of the local Universities.

    As I cannot source it I will not include my recollections of its findings.

    Paid

    “When I talk about provision I mean provision to do business with the State in Irish like the Welsh have.”

    A restrictive and self-serving definition of provision.

    However, the Welsh legislation fulfils 52 paragraphs under Part 3 of the European Charter. Scots Gaelic gets 39 paragraphs. Irish gets 36 paragraphs under Part 3. So it is almost equal in terms of practical measures for Gaelic and about 70% of Welsh.

    In terms of use with the state Article 10: Administrative authorities and public services is the most relevant – Welsh gets 14 paragrpahs, Irish gets 9 and Gaelic gets 8. So present provision Irish has more than Gaelic

    For Irish this includes:
    1 Within the administrative districts of the State in which the number of residents who are users of regional or minority languages justifies the measures specified below and according to the situation of each language, the Parties undertake, as far as this is reasonably possible:
    a (iv) to ensure that users of regional or minority languages may submit oral or written applications in these languages;
    c to allow the administrative authorities to draft documents in a regional or minority language.

    2 In respect of the local and regional authorities on whose territory the number of residents who are users of regional or minority languages is such as to justify the measures specified below, the Parties undertake to allow and/or encourage:
    b) the possibility for users of regional or minority languages to submit oral or written applications in these languages;
    e) the use by regional authorities of regional or minority languages in debates in their assemblies, without excluding, however, the use of the official language(s) of the State;
    f) the use by regional authorities of regional or minority languages in debates in their assemblies, without excluding, however,however, the use of the official language(s) of the State;
    g) the use or adoption, if necessary in conjunction with the name in the official language(s), of traditional and correct forms of place-names in regional or minority languages.

    3 With regard to public services provided by the administrative authorities or other persons acting on their behalf, the Parties undertake, within the territory in which regional or minority languages are used, in accordance with the situation of each language and as far as this is reasonably possible:
    c) to allow users of regional or minority languages to submit a request in these languages

    4 With a view to putting into effect those provisions of paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 accepted by them, the Parties undertake to take one or more of the following measures:
    a) translation or interpretation as may be required

    5 The Parties undertake to allow the use or adoption of family names in the regional or minority languages, at the request of those concerned

    “If NI wants nationalist loyalty, it has to earn it – though there will be a lot of folk happy if you don’t try.”

    That old dog don’t hunt. In the past 10 years a lot of polticial changes etc that the nationalist community wanted were agreed to. The political result was a growth in support for the most vociferous nationalist party. Any ‘contentment’ was outwieghed by a growth in ‘expectation’ of success.

    I also have a bit more respect for the depth of people’s beliefs and commitment to Irish unity that it would disappear simply by more provision for irish language.

  • RG Cuan

    FAIR DEAL

    Yes, i think i remember the study you mention. I’m sure there’s some truth in its findings but on the whole Irish speakers use the language as they have an affinity with it and because it’s the native tongue of their home country.

    When i get together with my friends in the pub or converse with my work colleagues we don’t speak Irish for political reasons or to somehow refute the rule of a certain state, we do so because we want to and because the language is a central part of who we are.

    As for SF calling for the Acht, the SDLP also support it. as do the Union of Students in Ireland and other organisations through out the island.

    Opponents to the ILA constantly cite SF’s stance on the issue as a reason why it should not be implemented. But the reality is it’s not about SF or any political party, it’s about the Irish language community who come from varied sections of our society.