“there is a small number of people intent on dragging us backwards..”

Local Sinn Féin councillor Dessie Ward was reasonably quick to condemn the attack on Seagoe Orange Hall, in Portadown, in the early hours of Thursday morning – one of a number of attacks noted yesterday. So what exactly was a member of Ógra Shinn Féin, the party’s youth wing, doing on the roof of another Orange Hall, in Newcastle Co Down, in the early hours of Friday morning.. Adds It’s not clear from the Newsletter report which date this occured on, it may actually have been last Saturday morning.. ie before yesterday’s statement was made.

  • Alan Anderson

    Praying? one would hope.

    Doesnt look to good in fairness little spide was surely upto no good. ÓSF is a youth wing, youth wings tend to be more “radical” than mainstream parties unfortunatly ÓSF has a way to go, when it comes to alot of things, one would hope tho in the bulk of their membership dont think their Spiderman.

    “Spidershinner, spidershinner does everthing a shinner can, ‘cept grow a beard cos hes 14”

  • slug

    Actions louder than words?

  • barnshee

    Pity the poor chap fell. All those people available to provide an alibi and thepoor chap fell

  • jpeters

    just shows the misguided idiots who are behind the latest spate of violence, they can’t even follow their own party’s line, who said something about school holidays yesterday?

  • Alan Anderson

    From that individual i agree slug, but a party policy to climb up buildings i doubt it.

  • slug


    “From that individual i agree slug, but a party policy to climb up buildings i doubt it. ”

    I agree. But the actions of the party with respect to the individual will surely speak loudly here?

  • The Penguin

    I’m no ally of Sinn Fein, but feel we shouldn’t jump to too many conclusions over this incident.
    It really is true that no organisation can be responsible for the individual actions of all of its members – particularly those of its younger people.

    The real question, is will the Shinners see this incident, and the involvement of one of its own, as an opportunity to build better community relations, or as something to be glossed over.

  • Rory

    It is funny though. I’ll bet it’ll be a while before this fellow attempts to get “high” again.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    ARSON attacks have been to the fore this week… we’ve also seen the burning of Michelle Gildernew’s office and the petrol bombing of a home – where an 18-day old baby was living – by nationalists in Belfast.

  • Damien Okado-Gough

    Sinn Fein has to take measures to address the sectarianism within its own ranks.

    Indeed, both the SDLP and Sinn Fein must take seriously the reality of often severe sectarianism within the Nationalist community and take the lead in the North by doing something concrete about it.

  • interested

    Sinn Fein cant be held responsible for the actions of everyone who joins either their senior party or their youth wing.

    However, given the fact there have been several Orange Halls targetted in recent weeks, and one the night before which they were ‘quick’ to condemn – it really puts it up to them to see whether they are just paying lip service to condemnation or actually will do anything about it.

    They must support the prosecution of this fella. They must expel him from OSF and SF as a whole.

    They also cant hide behind this ‘school holiday’ excuse or “these thugs attack everyone – its just mindless” stuff every time. Yes there are little hoods in every community who just engage in recreational violence. However, there are still clearly plenty of people who go out with the sole intent of attacking people on a sectarian basis.

  • joeCanuck

    I wondered on the previous thread as to whether or not these attacks were just being carried out by mindless morons out to have their bit of “fun”.
    Now there’s a strong, not very nice, smell.
    I agree that, now, actions will indeed speak louder than words.

  • Alan Anderson

    Expulsion-(or perhaps long term suspension) from the party can be the only conclusion SF could come to on this one, logicaly.

  • joeCanuck

    From Ogra Shinn Fein website:

    Ogra Shinn Fein are making a difference in modern Irish politics and at the moment have a campaign called A.R.I.S.E, referring to Anti Racism, Imperialism, Sectarianism and Exploitation.

    Doesn’t seem to be working for some.

  • Lilly ‘O

    Is this the same Ogra Sinn Fein who were present at the Whiterock parade with a banner stating “Make Sectarianism History”?

    Complete hypocrisy. Shame on the individual involved!

  • interested

    Maybe they should have said Anti-racism, Anti-imperialism and Anti-sectarianism” on the website.

    Seems some of the kiddyShinners misread the original.

  • Alan Anderson

    A party cannon be responsable for an indiviuals actions, saying this Hall climbing is part policy is like saying Big Ian was Paul Berrys massuse. Regardless of your politics its highly irresponsible to make such a sweeping comment.

  • The Penguin

    “…is like saying Big Ian was Paul Berrys massuse.”

    I take it you haven’t heard then.

  • Steaky

    While the timing and the actions are unfortunate it still suprises me at how many are jumping on the story of a young fella obviously intoxicated making a mug of himself and asking is it Sinn Fein policy.

    I mean we have all indulged in some stupid things while young and intoxicated, aside from those who dont touch the devil’s urine of course. I myself had enough cones and roadsigns at one stage in my student flat to be passed off as a DRD holding facility.

    Obviously he has his reasons, I suspect alcohol and bigotry but seriously next time a jumped up drunken little eejit shouts IRA during the fields of Athenry are we going to be questioning the policy of Sinn Fein?

  • joeCanuck

    You know interested, the exact same thought crossed my mind.

  • Lilly ‘O


    Climbing up onto a hall roof to pull down a flag (of the occupying state), is not simply vandalism or theft.

    It is a racist and sectarian crime.

  • bootman

    Forgive me if I vomit while listening to the Orange Order talking about sectarianism. They area sectarian organisation.

  • Cromwell

    Possibly his wings of bigotry melted in the moonlight; MacIcarus.

  • Steaky


    “racist and sectarian crime”

    I assume there was a sectarian element to it, yes, racist? i suggest you check your dictionary.

    Occupying state? You having a laugh? So if it were a tri-colour, St Georges flag or a pizza hut all you can eat flag that would be considered petty vandalism?

  • joeCanuck

    Don’t know about others here bootman, but I’m neither a member of nor a flag waver for the OO.

  • Cromwell


    When you’ve finished vomiting…….thanks, what is an “area sectarian organisation”?

  • slug


    “Don’t know about others here bootman, but I’m neither a member of nor a flag waver for the OO.”

    I’m not in the OO either.

  • Dec

    Local Sinn Féin councillor Dessie Ward was reasonably quick to condemn the attack on Seagoe Orange Hall…

    What you mean, within hours Pete? What is your criteria for very quick? Within minutes?

    Anyway aside from the ubiquitous snide innuendo from Baker this is only faintly embarrassing for SF but is clearly not representative of party policy. Equally, groping female council employees isn’t DUP policy either.

  • joeCanuck

    I’m not at all supportive of the concept of predestination, but “whataboutery” was sure to come up here sooner or later.

  • joeCanuck

    Frustrated wannabe English Language teachers.

  • Lilly ‘O


    Racism – “hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.”

    I think you will find this was a racist incident!

  • Paul

    Lilly ‘O

    Race? You realise that the overwhelming majority of Unionists are Celts? You do, don’t you?

  • Dec


    It wasn’t whataboutery. I’m just highlighting that the acts of single individuals cannot reasonably be tied to the policy of the party they are aligned to, which appears to be the general thrust of this thread.

  • Steaky

    Lilly ‘O
    Shame when you spent that time looking up racist you didnt look up just above at “race”.

    1. A group of people having or supposed to have common anchestors AND with similar physical characteristics.
    2. Any group which shares some distinctive features.

  • Greyhound Race

    Nevermind all this what about the poor treatment of Ireland’s greyhounds in a commercial setting that reaps in millions for the racetrack owners and bookies, but still the poor dogs are dumped out when they can no longer turn a euro.

    Where’s the compassion?

  • Anon

    No surprise that people on this thread are trying to change the subject and go off on tangents.

    focus on the issue at hand- sectarianism within the ranks of sinn fein.

  • Alan Anderson

    If this “gent” were a true republican he would not have touched that flag or that hall.

    “I may not agree with what you have to say but I will defend to the death your right to say it”

    Wave it, march it etc… except in a triuphalist way. I have no objection to an orange lodge flying a ratty union flag, normally hung arseways , with no regard to uk protocals eg not taken down at sun down hung back to front etc. I reckon most unionists dont even know how to treat any flag with the respect it commands especialy their own. The OO doesnt need this muppet to take it down its funnier up and lookin a show.

    I rather like the orange flag with purple star mind its like somethin from a PRIDE festival.

  • Mick Fealty


    “…the acts of single individuals cannot reasonably be tied to the policy of the party they are aligned to.”

    Well, if they are aligned, and if they are refusing to follow senior party policy on this, it is a matter for considerable public concern. Especially since this targeting Orange Halls has been both widespread and has been running hot and heavy all summer.

    The Tories, in the unlikely shape of Norman Tebbit, had to close down the Federation of Conservative Students “after its members caused £14,000 of damage at Loughborough University in what newspapers called a ‘riot'”.

  • jpeters

    what the hell do conservative students riot about? pink gin running out?

  • lib2016

    It’s not the first time individual republicns have disgraced themselves and it won’t be the last but I agree with earlier posters who say that this eijit should be publicly expelled.

  • joeCanuck

    Thank you lib2016 for that sentiment.
    A private (or public) apology to the head of the group responsible for that particular hall might also be in order.

  • joeCanuck

    Meant to add “from a senior party official”.

  • oldruss

    “Molehill to mountain” is the phrase that comes to mind.

    A 17 y/o kid on top of some roof at, what, 2:45 a.m., don’t you suspect that he’d just come from a night of pub crawling, and was pissed to the gills? He FELL OFF, for crying out loud!

    Now, we cannot condone his tearing down the flag, and trespassing on the roof of the Orange hall whatever else he was up to (taking a wee piss perhaps), is a criminal act all by itself, even if he didn’t whip down the flag; but all in all, there’s a whole lot worse that goes on, sectarian or not.

    BTW–did the PSNI find any cans of petrol on top of the roof, or an explosive device? If not, let’s not lump this kid in with the arsonists and bombers; and certainly don’t lump him in with the likes of those who murdered the Quinn brothers in their beds.

  • lib2016


    At the very least the local republicans should supply a new Union Jack for the hall!

  • joeCanuck

    A weird unbelievable vision just entered my mind.
    Would a local branch of the OO, whose Hall was damaged through vandalism, accept an offer from the local SF branch to assist in repairing the damage, should such an offer be made?

  • bobby


    How do you know his age?

    Has he been named yet?

  • oldruss


    Disagree, the kid should be the one to supply the Orange Hall with a new flag.

  • oldruss


    From the link to The Newsletter in the original post.

    “The PSNI confirmed last night that they had responded to reports of “suspicious activity” at the hall on Shimna Road shortly before 2.45am on Saturday.

    “It is believed that a male had fallen from the building,” said a police spokeswoman. “A 17-year-old youth was taken to hospital by ambulance.”

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Dec said: “I’m just highlighting that the acts of single individuals cannot reasonably be tied to the policy of the party they are aligned to, which appears to be the general thrust of this thread.”

    By that logic, you won’t be complaining about loyalist paramilitary banners at Orange parades I take it?

  • interested

    “Equally, groping female council employees isn’t DUP policy either.”

    Agreed – you seem a little sensitive to some of the more ‘humorous’ comments made here – plenty of them were made towards the DUP at the time of scandals involving their members. People have actually been quite reserved (jokes aside) on this particular issue – not claiming Sinn Fein as an organisation are responsible, but as an organisation they must take action against their member who was responsible. Not taking action would be to tacitly condone the actions of this fella.

    When that DUP member was found to have been ‘groping female council employees’ he was expelled from the Party and there was no question of the DUP not supporting any proper legal action being taken against him. People now rightly expect the same kind of actions to be taken by Sinn Fein.

    It is unfortunate though for Sinn Fein when they are constantly trying to promote themselves as the party of anti-sectarianism for this to happen.

    Moving on to Lily’s comment and the reaction re: racism. Why dont we see a similar reaction when I’ve heard people try to claim that anti-Irish jokes made by British are “racist”? I happen to agree with those who say it wasn’t a racist attack, but at least some consistency would be nice.

  • Dec

    Dec said: “I’m just highlighting that the acts of single individuals cannot reasonably be tied to the policy of the party they are aligned to, which appears to be the general thrust of this thread.”

    By that logic, you won’t be complaining about loyalist paramilitary banners at Orange parades I take it?


    What part of apples and Oranges don’t you understand? I won’t be complaining if individual members of the OO are members of the UFF/UVF/LVF. However I will be complaining if the OO actively celebrate that fact.


    you seem a little sensitive to some of the more ‘humorous’ comments made here

    Care to explain that statement with examples?

  • link

    Hardly a surprise when supporters are putting together videos like this – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY9_X1wWRhI

  • Alan Anderson

    whats the vid?

    I consider the OO a parody of itself to be honest.

    Do the right thing and expell the wee child, almost as stupid as the numpie that mooned the Senegalese govenor, sometimes i think the only ulster tradition is that of stupidness.

  • fair_deal

    In the video, 30 seconds in:

    “Brits beware! (Image IRA unit) Or we will DESTROY you!” (Image Shankill Bomb Aftermath)

    Somewhat undermines the old chestnut that the reference to “brits” is about the army.

  • marty (not ingram)

    And later on in the vid – “Smash Stormont!” Er, didn’t they get the memo?

    Also, “PLO IRA, Brothers In Arms” shortly followed by footage of those well known PLO supporters Hamas.

    What age are these OSF characters?

  • Joe

    Look the person who ever did that video obviously isn’t in ogra sure they wrote they discription as an observer and commenting on the youth of Ireland.

  • marty (not ingram)

    Joe – how come it’s got the OSF logo at the start?

  • Outsider

    I remember stating quite recently that these attacks on orange halls were planned by republican elements only to be told otherwise by our enlightened militant republican contributors on this site.

    There have been too many orange halls destroyed as of late and the sectarian thugs behind it need to be put behind bars.

  • CTN

    Maybe the headbin was part of the unionist outreach team.

    SF- What a joke…

  • Liam

    Maybe OSF were volunteering to fix the roof… Just shows you the bin lids that are in that organisation.

  • Manny

    Let’s all pray for the poor wee flying Provo. I thought that Ogra Shinn Fein was running an anti-suicide campaign. Before wanting to help other teenagers they might want to look after their own. This young fellow needs to be counseled through whatever is troubling him. Seriously though, is this the start of a new anti-Orange campaign? Waves of young Provos will now be hurling themselves off Orange halls on the basis that if enough people suffer the authorities will close all Orange halls down to avoid further carnage.

    The other possibility is of course that this is a new Provo suicide campaign in the spirit of the 1981 hunger strikers. I hear that this guy was too fond of his food to take the hungerstrike route like skinny Bobby Sands and skinny Francis Hughes, so he preferred to get his suicide over with quickly. If they are intent on suicide, long may it continue.

  • Danny

    The Orange Order drags us back further than any random of act of graffiti ever could.

  • Danny

    Can’t remember any Loyalists dying for their cause. Remember bigoted Protestant preachers though, a lot of bigoted triumphalist marches, Catholic civilians getting their throat cut on their way home from nights out. Better stop there, don’t want to cross into the unchartered territory of remembering Protestant killers, same ones the government largely turned a blind eye to. A history of institutionalised discrimination and bigotry. Curfews. Internment. Bloody Sunday. Loyalist mobs. RUC. Silly Republicans… Sorry, forgot, its not about one-up-man-ship anymore

  • Danny

    Ten points to anyone who may be able to point out why Catholic youths might attack the meeting place of an anti-Catholic, triumphalist, state-loved organisation? An organisation that embodies the struggle of Catholic nationalists from the past up to the present day? WELL DONE. Sorry, forgot, Protestants can riot for days straight to march up a Catholic road, but Catholics meanwhile have the right to – you guessed it – shut up and not get offended