Happy 6th July to our Czech readers!

Today the Czech nation mark the life of Jan Hus, who was burned at the stake for his religious beliefs. The teachings of Hus ultimatley led to the establishment of the first ‘reformed’ church in Bohemia, a century before the Lutheran Reformation.

  • Sam Flanagan

    You don`t say who burned John Huss ? Was it the “religious institution” described in Rev 17? How many others has this religious institution” butchered since?

  • As good an excuse as any for a pivo or two tonight.

  • Dev

    from the wikipedia article:

    “Five centuries later in 1999, Pope John Paul II expressed “deep regret for the cruel death inflicted”; he then went on to suggest an inquiry as to whether Hus might be cleared of heresy.”

    That’s good to know!

  • Dec

    It might be an idea for Slugger Admin to preface this and similar religous threads with the legend Sky Fairy Alert in large red bold, thereby saving normal people precious seconds that they’ve since wasted on reading bollocks about the Book of Revelations.

  • Bluer

    When I read this blog about an obscure Czech figure I started to think about Loyalists hanging Israeli flags. Irrelevant but try anything to annoy the taigs when the 12th blood is boiling.

  • forlorn fairy

    Who the feck cares?

  • Gerry Lvs Castro

    People being burned alive over religious belief?
    Thankfully that sort of thing could never happen nowadays.

  • “try anything to annoy the taigs when the 12th blood is boiling”

    Stop talking through your fundament, Bluer. Huss was an important figure.

    If any Sluggerites haven’t had enough Protestantism this July, I throughly recommend a trip to Geneva to see St Pierre Cathedral and the excellent Museum of the Reformation, and then to Zurich to see the Grossmunster where Ulrich Zwingli preached.

  • Rory

    I don’t know how to respond to this news. I hope Mr Hus is comfortable and I wish him a speedy recovery or, failing that, a seat in heaven.

    Have his attackers been detained or are the Czech police a wee bit like you know who? – they don’t try too hard with “sectarian” stuff.

  • I recall seeing Hus’ statue when I visited Prague some years ago, but I was’nt fully aware of his background until now. He seems to have had a huge influence in both a religous and literary sense, and I look forward tp perhaps reading a little more about him.

  • Greenflag

    Got to hand it to the Czechs . There are more Czech RC’s than Hussites yet Jan Huss remains a national hero and quite rightly IMO. Most Czechs are not ‘into’ religion just like the English , Germans , French and now increasingly many Irish .

    NI remains the odd man out in modern Europe being the only State which has elected a cleric as it’s political leader even if only by a minority of the total electorate.

    NI can learn from the Czechs . In particular how the Czechs and Slovaks peacefully ‘repartitioned ‘ the former Communist Czechoslovakia without firing a shot and without rancor .

    When the present ‘power sharing’ nonsense in NI finally comes to it’s inevitable end -NI politicians should visit Prague to see the next step for NI politics .

    Greenflag

  • jpeters

    the early history of protestantism is fascinating especially if lookked at though what might be called a “marxist” viewpoint. A lot of the early history can be seen a class unheaval rather than a dry theological dispute

    how times change! would the founders of the early protestant movements recognise their ansestoral brethern with their acceptance of government authority and could medieval catholics envisage their faith operating in a secular society and perhaps being the underdog?

  • Juan

    its an important day for Bible Christians everywhere, as well as for the advancement of literacy, and a a day to reflect on a lofty and truly worthy (as compared with local attempts) example of the resistance of the totalitarian (having the advantage of facing genuine totalitarianism in Hus’s case I suppose)
    it is also an important historical moment for those who stand against the exploitation of superstition, as Hus’s address ‘Quaestio magistri Johannis Hus de indulgentiis’ will attest, a stand a few brave pioneers were beheaded for and that all Bible Christians feel they should honoured for, it is important to show respect top the genuine Martyrs of worthy causes and peoples right to do so, or even for unworthy causes, should be respect (if politely scrutinised in the commemorations of the Horst Wessels’ of this world)

    The people who care are genuine Christians keen to learn about and appreciate an most vital part of their heritage, as Slugger covers cultural issues for a country with a very noticeable Protestant element,someone deriding the inclusion of the commemoration of a bible faith Martyr on such a site is clearly suffering from a sectarian, exclusionist impulse.

  • Greenflag,

    Your comments are interesting but I always think it’s a mistake to surmise that the conflict here was based on religous ideaolgy. I know many Republicans who never had any time for The Catholic Church whatsover. They deeply distrusted them. The actions of Bishop Cathal Daly, when he refused to support the family of Larry Marley whose funeral was held up by British Crown Forces for 3 days, created a huge chasm between most republicans and The Catholic Church.

    Most Republicans saw the conflict as a battle for eventual liberation from what they regarded as being a foreign army of occupation. Of course, the realities meant that there were numerous clashes with Loyalist paramilitaries, and Republicans were also guilty of sectarian atrocities, but I think that the vast majority of republicans ultimately saw the conflict as being a political battle and most not definitely not a religous one.

  • barnshee

    You might also spare a second for

    Jan Palach, a student at Charles University in Prague, protesting the occupation of Czechoslovakia by Warsaw Pact forces as well as the abandonment of democracy by Czechoslovak politicians, doused himself with flammable liquid, set a match to his clothes and set himself aflame on Wenceslas Square near the statue of St. Wenceslas at 3 p.m.

  • Sam Hanna

    The Pope never said that his predecessors in the Vatican who ordered Huss’ death were sinful and wrong. Note the careful use of his weasel words.

    On the same point, why has the Pope not condemned and apologised for the genocide of the “Holy” Catholic Church against the Waldensians, Hugenots, Albigenis, St Bartholomew’s Day Massacre, La Mon, Kingsmills etc? Why has Benny the Nazi not condemned John Paul II for sending a golden crucifx to Mass Suicide Slimmer of the Year Bobby Sands? I could think of at least a billion more deerving Catholics than unrepentant childkiller Sands?

  • jpeters

    Sam

    thats just a rant and you know it!

    La Mon Kingsmill? you must be joking! do you even know the beliefs of the republicans who did that? Republicanism per se is a secular ideology, i’m not one by the way but i cant sit here and listen to that!

    I won’t even consider if you have a real beef with the pope etc over the past as you seem to have a problem with separating your subject matter on this point

  • Juan

    What about Darkly and the Catholic Reaction force, were they secular ?
    was that not a Republican cover name for an endevour by these ‘secular’ Republicans ?

    commemorating Palach is problematic as this would be an endorsment of suicide protest, something which, outside the minds of imhumanian, is horrible and totally unpermissable.

    and as well as Robert “racially distinct republic” Sands, we should recall the imitation crown of thorns and address of “your excellency” afforded to one Jefferson Davis, another incarcerated man honoured by the papacy.

  • Low Country Boy

    Is this guy anything to do with Derek in West Tyrone

  • jpeters

    name one church sanctioned murder during to troubles go on i dare you show me one leader of any church acting in their formal capacity who said go forth and shoot

    this is a totally ludricous debate! what damaged you lot so much that you can move from an obscure czech theologian (who would probably be a socialist or even a republican if born four centuries later) and honest christain debate to this idea that the terrorists that caused NI so much suffering can be linked to the cause of any christain religon.

    This thread isnt about NI but just for clarities sake i’ll say this religous distinctions in the political shpere are just labels nothing more

  • Rory

    If the Catholics apologise for all the Protestants martyred by Catholics because they were Protestant and the Protestants apologise for all the Catholics murdered by Protestants because they were Catholic can we all be nice and start over again?

    Shall I start off? …

    “I apologise most sincerely for the St Bartholomew Day’s Massacre and I promise not to do it again (unless badly provoked).”

    There, how’s that?

  • jim

    ‘People being burned alive over religious belief?
    Thankfully that sort of thing could never happen nowadays.’

    Drumcree & the Quinn children spring to mind.

  • jpeters

    Rory

    I will as well though its a strange feeling to be a war criminal!

    now i know how germans today must feel : )

  • barnshee

    Jeepers

    “name one church sanctioned murder during to troubles ”

    Try http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2002/12/20/story81533.asp I seem to remember a priest and a a bomb Claudy was it?

  • Czech mate

    What about the defenestration of Prague?

    I don’t really care, but it is not very often you get to use the word.

  • abucs

    Rory,

    i always suspected it was you. :o)

    Good sentiments though.

  • Cruimh

    “Irish Republicanism” has a very checkered history. ‘Orthodox’ republicanism of course tends to be secular – but the history of the Irish variety is all over the place – from the Republicanism of Tone – whose views on the Roman Catholic Church would make many Orangemen of today uneasy through to the Rosary Bead Republicanism of Pearse ( and back to Gerry McGeough) and in between the battle between catholic conservative and red that see-saws all over the place. Certainly the RC Church in Ireland has had it’s ups and downs with the IRA but let’s not forget that the Bishops were all for he Provos in the early days – as they saw them as good catholics as opposed to the Godless Marxists of the stickies. That’s why for the decades (bad pun) of the 70s, 80s and 90s the Rosary – in Irish of course – was said at republican commemorations.

  • jpeters

    Jeepers

    “name one church sanctioned murder during to troubles “

    Try http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2002/12/20/story81533.asp I seem to remember a priest and a a bomb Claudy was it?

    Posted by barnshee on Jul 06, 2007 @ 02:48 PM

    You got me a bit out of context there mate. was he acting under his authority as an RC priest? He was certainly abusing his position but hardly think he was acting under orders from the vatican

    but imagine if he was, a terrorist cell in every town city and village in half the world AL Quiada better what out : )

  • navrata – lover

    I am sure it will come as a great disappointment to any Czech who comes on line in the genuine hope of celebrating their national day to discover that as usual we are looking up our own a—

    However, so be it, clebrate our own country

  • jpeters

    Cruimh

    You dont need a priest to say the rosary mate dont think to presense of a priest conveys support even murderers in prison get to hear mass

  • Cruimh

    “You dont need a priest to say the rosary mate ”

    I didn’t make that claim JP.

  • jpeters

    i know i was making the point that the presence of a priest doesnt convey the support of the church of any particular political position

    god whats wrong with me today ive ended up supporting the position of the Church and the GAA i must be out of my f*cking mind!

    thats what happens when you give up on truth and try to stick to the facts, im away of a lie down

  • Latino Right

    i do no want to be offensive, but I believe the Rosary should have a capital R

  • Cruimh

    ” i must be out of my f*cking mind! ”

    the rest of us already knew that LOL

  • Gréagóir O’ Franclín

    Gas how every thread turns into a blame game and slagging match about the NI troubles.

    Jan Hus however was a great bloke and indeed so was anyone who questioned the oppressive and hypocritical authority of the Catholic Church in bygone days.
    Such inquisitive Protestants in time took it another step forward giving religion the boot altogether. Unburden yourself and be a Freethinker! Don’t be a sheep!

    (That makes me excommunicated then by the infallible one! Am I bothered? Not at all!)

  • Sparta Prague

    Does anyone remember Jan Koller, what a striker

  • Frank Sinistra

    Since we are doing religiously linked anniversaries, here’s one closer to home:

    July 6th is the anniversary of the execution of Thomas More by Henry the VIII over his refusal to accept the monarch installing himself as supreme head of the Church of England.

  • Cruimh

    “Does anyone remember Jan Koller, what a striker”

    Cantona was the king!

  • Anonymous

    “However, so be it, clebrate our own country”

    No, I’m going to celebrate Czech culture, apart from supping their beer, I don’t do it often enough.

    Anyone remember “All I got for Christmas was a Dukla Prague away kit” by Half Man, Half Biscuit?

  • Red DeviL

    Talking of Cantona, what about Karol Poborsky?

    a true red star

  • At this point I’d like to point out my username is Czech for thirsty.

  • abucs

    Those Czechs certainly know how to put on a great spread !

    Enough meat to last for a week. Great stuff !

  • Sean Graham

    Hus deserved what he got. A lot of the 30 years war was fought in Bohemia, all due to this puppet’s paymasters. The Swiss shouid hand back that cathedral to its rightful owners, the Catholic Church. Who thefuck would want to go to Switzerland to look at a bookie’s office?

  • willis

    Of course the reformers would never have executed someone for heresy. Really?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aikenhead

  • Reader

    Frank Sinistra: July 6th is the anniversary of the execution of Thomas More by Henry the VIII over his refusal to accept the monarch installing himself as supreme head of the Church of England.
    Yet Thomas More was happy enough to burn Prods while the boot was on the other foot. Are you a fan of his?

  • Greenflag

    macswiney

    ‘but I always think it’s a mistake to surmise that the conflict here was based on religous ideaolgy.’

    I agree generally apart from a small number of atrocities on both sides. I would at the same time not underestimate the degree of anti catholicism among a large number of ‘unionists’ . Unfortunately in the NI context this is also perceived as anti Irish which it sometimes is but not always . In the same vein unionist perception of the Irish being anti British is exaggerated no doubt because of local political and demographic circumstances .

    As long as NI is a State at least in it’s present 6 county format it will probably never escape the ‘religious’ label for what is/was at base a political conflict.

    Terror begets terror and in all conflicts /wars/rebellions there are instances of mass atrocities . Contrast the Japanese treatment of German POWs in World War 1 with their treatment of British prisoners in World War.
    2 ?

    Had the Germans been Japanese POW’s in World War 2 their treatment would have been the same as that of the British and Australians . Why the difference between WWI and WW2 ?

    The Japanese Army in World War 11 had been brutalised in training to an extent that most contemporary westerners would not have understood . From this sprang contempt for those who ‘surrendered’ . Given the closed nature of Japanese society with it’s rigid social castes surrender by a Japanese soldier would bring shame and ostracism on his family back home.

    Military and political leaders have always known that the way to get your ‘army’ or ‘supporters’ to committ atrocities is to ‘dehumanise’ the enemy . Hitler did this with the Jews – And since Hitler’s time the same phenomenon has been repeated on other ‘minorities’ all over the world.

    In Northern Ireland the ‘minority’ although to a much lesser degree were ‘brutalised’ by the political powers that were . Small wonder that they in turn ‘repeated’ the ‘brutalisation’ inflicted upon them .

    As you sow so also shall you reap . Theres a lesson there for everybody Christian believer or not -IMO

    No matter what atrocity any individual or group on either side may do we should always remember that people be they Unionist or Republican /Nationalist are just that -i.e people and subject to the same human condition of response and reaction to whatever befalls them in their area/life etc.

    Greenflag.

  • Dalek

    Anyone remember “All I got for Christmas was a Dukla Prague away kit” by Half Man, Half Biscuit?

    Posted by Anonymous on Jul 06, 2007 @ 04:04 PM

    Just mentioning that I remember that particularly entertaining song by Half Man Half Biscuit very well. The Trumpton Riots was another great track from around the same time.

    However my favourite is “Turn a Blind Eye” from their later album “Four Lads Who Shook The Wirral” which actually may have some relevance to this thread as it is based wholly upon “First They Came” by the German cleric Pastor Martin Niemoller… although the reworking by HMHB contained a gratuitous reference to Danni Behr!! lol

  • http://www.alexa.org/data/details/traffic_details?url=http://www.sluggerotoole.com

    Actually, you have much more readers in South Africa than in Lower Bohemia.