Another informer (re)revealed?

Greg Harkin is doing the spade-work on unearthing the dirty secrets of the world of IRA informers, as seen in his weekly series currently running in the Sunday Life. This week, he looks at the Sandy Lynch case, which sentenced Danny Morrison to jail for eight years. He reveals the farce of two informers interrogating a third informer. What makes this week’s article different from previous allegations (see below) is this: “Three separate, reliable sources – none of them known to each other – have now confirmed that his other interrogator was also working for Special Branch.” Previously, it had only been Kevin Fulton publicly making the claim. Now Harkin has three other reliable sources confirming the allegation.

This is bittersweet but good news for Morrison, who is in position to have his conviction overturned.

Once there, there are two options for the Crown – a re-trial, which would expose the role of agents in the case, giving official and public confirmation to the roles of Scappaticci and the second IRA man as informers and chief prosecution witness Lynch as a double murderer. Or the Crown agrees to drop all charges and Morrison’s conviction is quashed. Few would be surprised if the second option is preferred.

Bad news continues all around for those who ran dodgy informers as it is also revealed that Lynch was a double murderer.

When questioned about his role in the double-murder, Lynch admitted his involvement. Special Branch detectives reported this admission but were ordered by senior officers to keep using Lynch as an agent. Police Ombudsman Nuala O’Loan did investigate the Morrison case, but the investigation was cut short when it was taken over by the Stevens Inquiry because of Scappaticci’s involvement in the case.

The bloody history of Scappaticci is now well known. The messy question of where the moral lines get drawn is still up in the air.

Background: Cryptome (also carries denials)

West Belfast bricklayer Freddy Scappaticci, said to have been second-in-command of the IRA’s feared nutting squad, has denied the allegations that he was a paid informer. Senior republicans now accept he was.
It was Scappaticci who helped set up the arrest of former Sinn Fein publicity director Danny Morrison in January 1990 at a house in west Belfast where informer Sandy Lynch was being held.
Maguidhir had been at the same house that weekend and, like Scappaticci, had escaped the subsequent police operation. He went on the run after being named by Lynch as the IRA’s No2 in Ardoyne. He had been best man at Lynch’s wedding as well as a friend and IRA colleague of Fulton’s.He returned to Belfast following the ceasefires and trained as a journalist.

Background: Agent names second IRA chief as key British mole

More recently, Maguire was involved with Scappaticci in the abduction in 1990 of Sandy Lynch, a police agent. Police and troops swooped on the house where Lynch was being held, arresting those who were holding him. Both Maguire and Scappaticci had left before Lynch’s rescuers arrived.
Neither Maguire nor Scappaticci was aware that the other was being run as an informer by the army’s secretive Force Research Unit.

Background: Another army spy in IRA, claims ex-agent (Rosie Cowan, The Guardian)

Background: Man ‘shocked’ at agent claims (BBC)

Maguire has been an editor of the North Belfast News and a director of the Andersonstown News Group. This is what the management of the Andersonstown News Group had to say when the claims first surfaced:

In a joint statement Máirtín Ó Muilleoir, Managing Editor and Robin Livingstone, Group Editor Andersonstown News Group, condemned the report as scurrilous and irresponsible gutter journalism.
“It comes as no surprise to the Andersonstown News Group that the increasingly vitriolic campaign of vilification against our newspapers by certain media outlets has culminated in this outrageous and baseless allegation against a valued and trusted senior member of staff. The journalists who publish this type of scurillous allegation based on one discredited source and without producing a scintilla of evidence are a disgrace to their profession. It is an attack on our integrity and independence and we will defend ourselves vigorously. The Andersonstown News Group will be throwing all its resources behind Sean Mag Uidhir in whatever steps he deems necessary to vindicate his reputation.”

Sean Maguire also recently signed the nomination papers for Gerry Kelly in the past election, and spoke alongside Kelly and Bik McFarlane at a tribute to Larry Marley last month.

  • Bangers

    So who shopped Bangers Morrison? Who shopped Denis Donaldson, best friend of Bobby Sands? Who does Ed Moloney’s The Sectet History of the IRA make out as the top tout? Who gained by having Bangers banged up? Reminds me of Fr Faul’s words when he advised kids not to get mixed up with the Provies: touts through and through. And I wonder how many RIRA men have been touted on by PIRA men “just following orders” from the descendants of Stakeknife, Bob Storey etc.
    Fair play to Bangers for not dining with the PSNI. Bobby Sands and Richard O’Rawe would be proud of him.

  • heck

    Ingram has made this allegation on sluggerotoole on a number of occasions so it is nothing new. This time I guess the Belfast Bellylaugh group of papers think they have enough evidence.

    Given that this has been in the public domain for years why has he no done a runner like Scap and Donaldson, and stayed involved in republican politics. (If the allegations are true!)

    I should admit to some bias here. I went to school with Sean Mcguire.

  • wise-up

    These allegations are coming from none other than Peter Keeley. Such a source should be shunned. There is nothing new in this article by Ingrams’ side kick Greg Harkin. Neither is there any proof. New unnamed sources could be no more than a figment of ingrams’ mind. Hmmm…. who could they be, 3 Peter Keeleys? Mr Ingram above writing as bangers is a silly little man trying to stir the pot when there is nothing in the pot to stir.

    A media junkie craving attention.

    As for danny morrison, he is being used by this dubious trio. Make him look good and innocent of this charge and someone else in the republican movement is a tout. Playing one off against the other. A good ploy but none the less a ploy.

  • mickhall

    Monty Python indeed, but then this whole security service world reeks of incompetence and criminality, as it is increasingly becoming clear that one UK intelligence organization not only did not trust another, but a times they worked against each others best interest.

    With such a level of distrust it is difficult to see how the information these Intel groups gained from their informers etc could be centrally coordinated to the benefit of all the security forces.

    For example if one of the informers Greg Harkin mentions within PIRA security had gained vital information during an interrogation, which he then passed on to his SB handler, if they shared it with other Intel groups like FRU or MI5 they would quickly be able to work out that the SB had an informer at the top of provo security.

    I presume to ensure this did not happen they simply passed on the info in the widest terms, for example they refused to inform their colleagues in the other intel organizations that it was perfectly safe to wait for Morrison to visit the house Lynch was being held in, as to do so would have revealed their source.

    Far from running as a Tout Lynch, they should have had him arrested for murder, he had after all confessed to a serving police officer. Instead they settled on Morrison for allegedly committing a lesser crime to gain brownie points with their bosses and the UK media.

    Although I have to say this distrust and dislike between security officers who belonged to different organization may in the end be beneficial to society as a whole, as it is becoming increasingly clear many of them have carried their hatreds and petty slights and jealousies into retirement and have now decided to refight their differences in the media by doing each other down.

    The more journalist expose the more ridiculous but deadly the behavior of the security services looks. It is one thing for them to be party, with their cut and paste report on WMDs to the tragedy that is far away Iraq, but to turn loose killers on the people they have pledged to protect is a different matter for most ordinary people.

    The Chinese have a saying that if you sit on the river bank long enough, your enemies come floating by.

    I would add this, there will be those who will wish to argue over who was/is a tout or not. But this is not the most important issue, which is the destructive and counter-productive behavior of the British security services in Ireland; and that these organization,those who served in them and those politicians who had responsibility for overseeing them are made to answer for what increasingly looks like collusion in criminality.

  • lib2016

    All part of the great game to muddy the waters while the Brits get out of Ireland and put the blame for the unholy mess they created here on Special Branch and the unionist population.

    No wonder Paisley and the real unionists have realised that they have to do a deal now. The UUP and their friends are old enough not to have to worry too much about 2016 but the DUP have to think about the continued welfare of their community and their need to have a separate NI entity.

  • susan

    The related article in this morning’s Sunday Life, http://www.sundaylife.co.uk/news/article2472305.ece, includes further claims from eight serving and former members of SB. One detective insists that the IRA had its own spy within SB for years, and that he, and not Larry Zaitschek, was responsible for the Castlereagh break-in.

    A second SB detective speculates about the mole, Donaldson, and the collapse of the last Assembly: “Let’s put it like this, Denis Donaldson was working for someone in Special Branch when the so-called ‘spy ring’ was uncovered, but it was Denis who was running that ring, so it was a rogue Branch spy ring rather than a Provo spy ring.”

    An interrogation in which not only the interrogee but both interrogators are working for the Crown. A Special Branch man who is actually a loyal member of PIRA. Rogue Spy rings within spy rings and the collapse of an Assembly. I’m not in position to prove or disprove any of these accusations, but to say all this merely “borders on farcical” seems too kind.

    At the time of Denis Donaldson’s press conference , I found myself obsessing over why Donaldson’s intelligence handler(s) told him his role as an agent was going to be revealed, and why at that particular point time. However his handler expected or desired him to act on this information, I doubt he (or she) expected Donaldson to schedule a press conference to release the information, with McG and Adams at his side.

    We are always told that the dirtiest aspects of the security forces’ involvement in a very dirty war were to prevent even greater loss of life and to “guide” republicans towards a path of politics, and politics alone, in achieving their aims. Yet now on the brink of power-sharing every week brings new revelations seeming to depict republicans as puppets on a string. Reports of unresolved murders and still grieving families accompanied by a chorus of “Ding-dings, and LOLS,’ from Ingram, and deafening silence from most other quarters.

    I support the calls Mick Hall and others have made here and elsewhere for an independent, inclusive Truth and Reconciliation Commission. If there is an emerging Northern Irish identity, the two great possibly unifying strands I see are 1.) obsession with sports, and 2.) the rising gorge from revelation after revelation after revelation of how interwoven the knots truly were between paramilitaries on both sides and the quote endquote forces of law and order.

  • eyeball

    mickhall

    Instead they settled on Morrison for allegedly committing a lesser crime to gain brownie points with their bosses and the UK media.

    was “brownie points” a freudian slip?

  • Yea I agree.

  • jake

    eyeball: you mean ‘a big lad bonus’ not brownie points!

    mick hall: all british intelligence op’s were put together by TCG’s, Tactical Co-ordinating Groups, composed of reps of RUC SB, FRU and MI5 who met to co-ordinate activity and make sure they didn’t trip over each other and to ensure uniformed, non-intel security forces were in the right spots during sensitive operations – they may not have known officially the precise identity of each other’s touts but they would have had a very good idea – morrison’s arrest would have been a classic example of such a TCG op, tightly controlled and well executed – the big question with morrison is why they chose to remove him from Adams’s circle – was it a shot across adams’ bows, did they want someone else on the army council in his place, was morrison becoming a threat to adams or was it revenge for his part in the scuppered Tandanya yacht attempt on RUC chief Jack Hermon’s life? the various intel groups were also rivals for sure since control of an agent brought with it power – eg FRU controlled Scap and therefore RUC would have to bow the knee to the Brits during operations involving him, which would stick in their collective craw – if Brian Nelson’s example is typical you can be sure the RUC SB tried to recruit Scap behind FRU’s back;
    happy days!

  • Alexander Lynch.

    There is of course the possibility that Maguire is indeed a tout, and if this is the case then he deserves to be outed and ostracised from the community. In by gone days his fate would have been much harsher. Curly top has come under suspicion during his years in the IRA, but then hasn’t everybody who was in that organisation come under suspicion at some point or other? As indeed has the other people named by Peter keeley and Ian Hurst. Martin McGuinness was the most famous on their list.
    One must ask ones self who profits from bringing out the touts at this stage. Keeley in his fight against his former employers who believes he is entitled to more money for his involvement in murdering the citizens of Northern Ireland. What of Hurst? What is his angle in all of this? He claims he doesn’t want money, but perhaps is in for a share of Keeleys’ if indeed he gets any. Is he trying to make a name for himself by writing books, pretending to know more than what he does?
    How much can one corporal know even if he did work in Army HQ Lisburn? He must have his limit. Keeley must have his limit. Or are they being fed information from people inside the security forces who are not willing to come forward and put their names on the line, because the information is suspect or untrue?
    Unless or until someone else with a reputable reputation comes forward about agents, then claims originating from these dubious sources must be held accountable and examined and ultimately binned, until further information as to its veracity and accuracy becomes available.

  • Irish Republican in America

    Susan,

    The link isn’t working. Any way you can post the article in a comment, or email it to me?

  • Alexander Lynch

    Here is the article IIA, that Susan refers to.

    Special Branch Files: No closure without justice for victims
    [Published: Sunday 22, April 2007 – 09:54]

    The brother of Mary Travers – shot dead outside a south Belfast church in April 1984 – says he believes Northern Ireland cannot fully move on without justice for victims of the Troubles.

    Paul Travers was responding to a Sunday Life investigation into his sister’s murder that uncovered allegations of a cover-up in the killing.

    The Historical Enquiries Team of the PSNI is said to be carrying out a ” thorough” investigation.

    Mr Travers told Sunday Life: “It’s a real shame that we didn’t go the way of the South Africans with their truth and reconciliation commission. It might have brought some real comfort to many affected by the past 30 years.

    “It would, in my view, give real substance, depth and meaning to what we are apparently seeing reflected in the make-up of the new government at Stormont.

    “I also think it is a reasonable and fair solution when victims are asked to live with the release of prisoners involved in these atrocities and the elevation of those to Government who, in the past, were only too happy to justify the murder of those they now want to govern.”

    Mr Travers had intended to work as a barrister in Belfast until his sister’s murder, but left instead for London in 1988.

    He emigrated to Australia in 1993 and is now director of cultural heritage with the Government of Queensland, working on the rights of the Aboriginal peoples.

    He added: “If they (the politicians) genuinely believe in reconciliation and want respect for their office, then surely they should tell the whole story of what happened. We all need healing. We all need to understand. To me, it seems unusually cold-hearted that victims are being required to struggle to obtain the truth, or are simply being asked, as an alternative, to forget.”

    This is a view shared by serving and former members of RUC Special Branch. Eight of these detectives met Sunday Life last week.

    One serving member told us: “We’ve had the Stevens Inquiry for 18 years costing tens of millions, the Ombudsman has spent £40m and the Historical Enquiries Team are set to add to that cost.

    “But this is not just about money, though, this is about telling the whole truth about the Troubles.

    “We are ready to play our part in any truth and reconciliation tribunal as long as it is properly constituted and doesn’t turn into another expensive public inquiry.

    “More than 3,600 people died in the Troubles and 30,000 people were injured. We need to address that before we can move on.

    “We fully support the establishment of devolution on May 8 – let no one be in any doubt about that. This is a massive step forward.

    “However, we don’t believe we can have a proper future without clearing up the debris from the past.”

    A fellow officer then dropped a bombshell: “The IRA had a spy inside Special Branch for years. We know who he was and yet nothing was done.

    “He is the person responsible for the Castlereagh break-in. Forget about the chef (Larry Zaitschek), this was a Branch mole helping the Provos.”

    The codenames of scores of informers, the information they had provided to detectives and the telephone numbers and addresses of Special Branch officers were taken in the raid on St Patrick’s Day 2002.

    More than 300 police officers and others were forced to move home at an estimated cost of £30m as a result of information falling into the hands of IRA intelligence.

    The encrypted computer disks and notes were in the hands of the IRA within hours of the burglary.

    Police said nine months ago that they want to charge US-based Lawrence ‘Larry’ Zaitschek, a former chef at the police base, but an extradition warrant still hasn’t been issued.

    Another former Special Branch officer said the Branch mole may have had a role in the collapse of the last Assembly.

    He said: “Let’s put it like this, Denis Donaldson was working for someone in Special Branch when the so-called ‘spy ring’ was uncovered, but it was Denis who was running that ring, so it was a rogue Branch spy ring rather than a Provo spy ring.”

    Donaldson’s arrest as part of ‘Stormontgate’ in October 2002 led to the collapse of the last Assembly. When charges were dropped against Donaldson in December 2005, he admitted having worked for Special Branch. He was shot dead at an isolated cottage near Glenties, Co Donegal on April 4 last year.

    This Branch officer added: “Donaldson was killed because he had too many secrets to tell and I believe those secrets related to his work with Special Branch rather than the IRA.”

  • Irish Republican in America

    Thanks for posting the story AL.

    If that’s to be believed, raises more questions on Donaldson’s murder-how come the SB guy was the camerman who “outed” DD’s hiding spot?

  • Alexander Lynch

    I believe he was ex special branch at the time working as a freelance reporter.
    My question is would Donaldson/PIRA have had the money to run a rogue ring of SB spies for the provisionals?

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Gentlemen

    Having listened to the republican old guard for years and hear them say:-

    “Belfast is rotten to the core – Full of Touts & Tout Commanders”!

    After all the outing of Touts over the years -Isn’t it nice to see the real TOUTS being outed one by one!

    I am expecting to hear 2 other former Northern Command figures also outed SOON! (And they are really gonna show the Provies up BIG STYLE.

    Keep up the good work Greg Harkin – Lets bring it all Out.

  • susan says let greenflag be greenflag

    Rory (South Derry), supposing just for one moment what you said is true, wouldn’t it bother you to think that those you label as “touts” would have been deliberately protected and built up by the Brits with the pre-determined objective of tearing them down again (by exposing them as “touts”) if they ever got close to exercising genuine political power?

  • susan

    Sorry, greenflag, didn’t mean to drag you into this. You’ve your hands full at the moment.

  • Gerry Bruddy Fryday

    Remember when Fine Gael were outing the “senior Fianna Fail figure” who took bribes and Charlie said “it ain’t me”.
    Read Ed Moloney’s Secret History. The Brtis ran the North and still do. They groomed their foes,people like Gerry and McGuinness, and sidelined the real republicans. The parameters are now as the Brits want it, with the DUP/RHC on one side and SF/PIRA on the other.
    PIRA bump off RIRA dissidents, RIRA hard liners end up doing time, Crown Catholics get to strutt their stuff a la Wee Joe Devlin and Darkie Hughes and his type grumble.
    Getting rid of Morrisson helped ensure there was no Northern Sinn Fein opposition to Big Gerry. Getting rid of the East Tyrone guys also shut down PIRA.
    The Brtis are pensioning the UDA/UVF off and the North is at a well subsidised stalemate.
    PIRA are a discredited force, riddled with touts to the core. Armed resistance is finished. The only way forward is through the doctored and ocntrolled prism of Sinn Fein, the touts’ party.

  • ingram

    Hi,

    Just a cuple of points lads and girls.

    Martin Ingram is not a source to this new information published in the Sunday Life. This information was sourced independantly from me . For what it is worth, it also was not sourced from any former IRA agent either.My understanding is this information comes directly from the horses mouth within the Agents own Handling team.

    Alex

    My rank was Sgt I served over 12 years in the Intelligence Corps 7.5 years in Northern Ireland serving in the FRU and HQNI.I worked long and hard to defeat the Ra and common murderers something I am very proud of.

    In relation to the issue at hand.

    Lets deal in facts.

    1. The Ombudsman as a result of me and Greg meeting with Mr Morrisons legal team a few years ago carried out an investigation into Mr Morrisons complaint that he was set up.

    2. They found evidence of TWO Public Immunity Certificates being issued to the Judge? during the trial of Mr Morrison for the abduction of My Lynch.That information based upon a taped interview with former Ombudsman investigators was first revealed in the best selling book Stakeknife.

    3. The TWO certificates protected the role and identity of two Agents:

    a. Freddy Scap.

    b. Sean Maguire.

    End OFF

    Best Regards.

    Ding Ding

    Martin

  • So, Marty, if Danny Morrison was set up by the British security forces to protect the real “Lord Chief Justice” on the PIRA Council to make sure that no more Joe Fenton type executions occurred – see Ed Moloney’s A Secret History of the IRA (p.335) – who was he?

    It certainly could not have been either the lowly Freddie Scappaticci or Sean Maguire, and your candidate and Moloney’s, Martin McGuinness, doesn’t wash since he was nowhere to be seen.

    It must have been ‘Steak knife’, and Greg Harkin’s latest ‘exposé’ is primarily intended to cover up the fact.

  • EyeSpy

    Trowbridge – keep taking the pills; you are more deluded than George Michael out driving.

    As for Mr Maguire, just ask anyone who was anyone around north Belfast during the ‘war’ and they’ll tell you someone was protecting him.

    There weren’t many volunteers who got away with taking up with (several) prisoners’ wives never mind the compromising of several operations. (CastleCourt ring a bell Sean?)….

    Ingram – Morrison was set up and you know it.

  • ingram

    Eye Spy.

    When I was contacted by Mr Morrisons legal team I did not make the meeting with the aim of having his conviction quashed. Indeed I made it very clear to Barra that I thought his client was guilty of many offences although at the time of this incident I believe Mr Morrison was not guilty of any offence save being a member of an illegal organisation( PIRA)

    The reason that I got involved was to demonstrate clearly how due procees was suspended during this period and killers were allowed to operate with an open cheque book.

    Mr Maguire was a well used Belfast security lad who had a role that did involve him working for GHQ with Freddy Scap in a roving role. The judge in the Lynch case made it very clear that he would have like to have seen both Maguire and Scap in front of him BUT what he did not know was at the time of his summing up that both were Agents of the state and both had been protected by the state from his court by the issue of PIC ( public immunity certificates)

    In relation to Sean. His present wife is the former wife of a prisoner that he managed to get arrested for terrorist offences ( set up) and then whilst he was banged up moved in to take the prisoners wife for himself.

    In the normal run of Republican communities that was a complete NO, NO ! Maguire was a serial predator of IRA prisoners wifes.HE WAS PROTECTED FROM WITHIN?

    The major issue that needs to be addressed and Danny knows it and is using it for his case is the the issue of the Public interest imunity certificates.

    Danny is no fool,he will not even have to go to court. This case will be settled and Danny will be free to visit the states and his conviction quashed. It simply is not IN THE BRITISH NATIONAL INTEREST for the case to be aired in a public court.

    Danny knows that.

    That is my final comment on this thread. let others debate the issue without me becoming the ball to be kicked.

    Regards.

    Martin

    PS. Trow. LOL

    Ding Ding

    Martin

  • mickhall

    Why Morrison is an interesting question, him being a potential oppositional figure- head to Adam’s back then just does not wash, it is not in the nature of the man. He was a useful tool for the Adams leadership, indeed the likes of danny morrison can be found these day within the coterie of most leading politicians these days.

    But his absence was never going to bring the PRM house down and for the security services to risk the exposure of a number of their informers for such a prize is odd to say the least, unless they thought he would buckle under interrogation. [it does not seem this occured]

    The where about’s of Lynch must have been on a need to know bases within a small group of Provos, so the security services must have known that their touts would fall under a cloud at least if they went ahead and arrested DM at the house.

    What motivated them, were they star struck, or?

  • EyeSpy

    You misunderstood me Ingram.

    There is no doubt whatsoever that Maguire was (and is) an informer though now it’s all perfectly OK.

    The journalist Harkin is lifting the lid on a great
    big pile of secrets but the Maguire one is hardly
    a secret anymore.

    He’ll end up in internal security (again) for another
    friendly chat and that will be the end of it. It makes you wonder who is running internal security
    these days.

    Maguire’s role for the IRA now is not disimilar to that of Denis before he was sent to the great big tout house in the sky. Maguire ‘puts people right’ when the Shinners want something fixed.

    Maguire’s other ‘paid’ role is working for the Andytown News, presumably giving the Brits “an insight into the thinking of” the paramilitaries as the BBC used to say. The Andytown News’ star columnist (for which millionaire Marty Miller pays handsomely) is one, er, Danny Morrison.

    Thank God for email!!! Can you imagine Danny leaving this week’s column off at the office where Sean works…

    Conversation would go something like this:

    Danny: Sean, that’s column in that envelope…
    Sean: Thank Danny
    Danny (striking Sean):…As opposed to the wad of cash you normally had stuffed inside envelopes you **** ****ing ***** *******
    Sean: Somebody call the police before Danny kills me….

    Just surprised Gerry Kelly has so much faith in Maguire, unless of course……

  • ingram

    Mick.

    Only because it is you I am replying.

    quote The where about’s of Lynch must have been on a need to know bases within a small group of Provos, so the security services must have known that their touts would fall under a cloud at least if they went ahead and arrested DM at the house.unquote

    The same house had been used previously and the householder did crack under questioning to admit that Joe Fenton had been interrogated at the same location prior to him being dispatched to pastures new.

    The forensics proved that the material used to secure Lynch had also been used to secure Fenton.

    At the time the house was raided NO AGENT was present on the premises although CID did find some evidence of their presence and an arrest warrant was issued but was subsequently withdrawn with NO EXPLANATION.

    Danny Morrison knew he had been set up. When I spoke directly to him well before Scap and Maguire were outed he was clear that he knew he had been fecked over and had one person clearly in his mind for his HMP experience.

    Lynch knew his time was up and was compromised but he was and remains today with his Handlers considered to be one of the most bravest of all Agents. The fact that he is a murderer, does not factor into these internal equations.

    Lynch was adamant that he wanted and was prepared to be the bait for this job, Morrison was not liked by the peelers and in some ways it was personal.

    Ask yourself why did a very senior Provo and Agent of the state who knew both Seanie and Scap very, very well.Deliberately give two physical descriptions of both individuals to the CID , one who had driven him to the house and one who had interogated him that that were so wrong that their mothers would not have been able to recognise them? LOL

    It all comes back to the achiles heel of the state today. Public Immunity Certificate.

  • EyeSpy

    Ingram

    Are you saying that Lynch also gave a false description of Maguire?

    Harkin says he has THREE sources on Maguire. Why are people speaking now?

    What do you think Maguire will do now? What do you think he should do now?

    Word on the street is that the peelers were looking for Maguire in Belfast on Saturday. What do you think that was about?

    Answers please……

  • all aboard

    I sincerely hope Danny Morrisson does not get any compensation. He never would of done time if we would of supported the Brtis like the rest of his comtrades.

    Ding Dong.

  • ingram

    Eye Spy,

    1. Yes.

    2. He does have three, I am not one of them. In relation to why now. Well, lets be honest the Ra is defeated and its members dejected about the process. Many security force members can see the way the Government would like to portray this conflict, ie acknowledging collusion but not taking any responsibilty for its own actions and policies. I am aware that there are others who want to lay a marker down in the sand to HMG to not play politics with the past and if they want to deal with the past do so but in a fair and objective way.

    Selective amnesia will not be tolerated.

    3. Ride the storm protected by the senior touts.

    4. Probably to make sure he received his monthly retainer.LOL Seriously No idea.

    Regards and Ding Ding.

    Ingram

  • ingram

    Eye Spy,

    In relation to Lynch and his evidence to the Trial judge and his statements to the Police ( CID)

    He gave a number of misleading and downright untruthful statements to the police that had the overall affect of providing the innocent trial judge with the clear belief that Lynch was quote A lying and untrustworthy individual unquote

    The Branch had led Lynch to provide enough to obtain the conviction and yet to the ignorant judge he looked like a man who was deceitful and manipulative.

    That was a clever yet very obvious attempt at muddying the waters for the two principles. If it had not been for the Ombudsmans investigations the use of the PIC would not have been known.

    Ding Ding

    Ingram

  • EyeSpy

    Ingram,

    OK. All understood.

    Surely volunteers (excluding Morrison) who did time as a result of Maguire operations will be asking whether or not the handsome Mr Maguire screwed them (as well as their wives). Until now they might have blamed Mr Lynch.

    In your experience what will happen next? You say he will ride the storm but surely there will be those who don’t give a damn about the Ra now, but will take this all very personally (a la Donaldson).

    And one other question: Do you think Bill Lowry will know who the IRA mole in the Branch is..?

  • ingram

    Eye Spy,

    1. Volunteers are war weary. Defeated and dejected and reliant upon the ceasefire soldiers for their next few quid.

    2. Morrison knows who set him up, ask yourself why Danny left the movement on his release! he knew what he was up against. Danny is no fool.

    3. I doubt it. Maguire is protected.

    4. I would be surprised if he did not.

    Regards.

    Ingram

  • EyeSpy

    Heck

    Did Sean ever tout on you at school?

    Where there occasions when teachers discovered things and no-one in the class knew how?

    Ingram

    The last time Maguire was outed, what did you hear happened?

  • Alexander Lynch

    Eye spy what storm is maguire riding? Can’t say anyone else other than yourself who thinks the peelers were looking for Maguire on Saturday. If anyone is looking for him he is there in all his usual haunts.

    Theres an awful lodda crap in this thread.

    The insinuation that the other person in the Carrigart house was wired was first floated in an article some time back.

    Why would anyone want rid of Morrisson other than he was a high profile figure. He’d make no difference to anything.

    Eye spy re your little conversation between Danny and Sean, its very funny, but I haven’t seen any contributions from Morrison in a long time, not since he switched from andy town news to daily ireland, and since that paper is now defunct, theres nothing from Morrison anywhere at all.

  • EyeSpy

    Alexander – or should I call you Sandy – I agree there is a lodda rubbish on this thread, but Trowbridge is getting treatment for it.

    I accept the Maguire thing is just a rumour and I should not have posted it here.

    To be serious about it, I’d never read a previous story about the other person (Maguire) in the Carrigart house was wired.

    I agree with you on Morrison. It was just a good coup for the RUC to get him.

    As for the Andytown News column, didn’t realise Morrison wasn’t writing there anymore. I’m sure it makes life more comfortable for Seanie – and means more money for Marty for his gas-guzzler.

  • “Theres an awful lodda crap in this thread”.

    Alexander, that’s the single most accurate comment I’ve read so far.

    The trouble with threads of this nature is that they allow Ingram and others to perpetrate any amount of contrived nonsense (and then some…!)

    A perfect example being Ingram’s truly ludicrous comment that;

    ” Volunteers are war weary. Defeated and dejected and reliant upon the ceasefire soldiers for their next few quid”.

    What complete and utter hogwash! For his information – the ceasefire has actually been in place for more than a decade now. I do not know a SINGLE republican who could even remotely be described as “war weary” let alone looking for handouts for their “next few quid”. Most are in comfortable full-time employment and lead very happy family lives.

    Comments of this nature show how far removed Ingram actually is from the realities of daily day to day lives here. He simply has no idea…

    The other point worth making is that there are many areas in The North that were virtually untouched by informers. Areas such as Short Strand where the RUC failed to make any significant headway during the entire 30 years period of The Troubles and whose Active Service Units were regarded as virtually impenetrable by Security Forces.

    If informers were as widespread as Ingram portrays then the war would NEVER have lasted for more than 30 years. The fact is that many areas of The North remained informer-free zones despite the best attempts of the RUC and British Intelligence.

  • EyeSpy

    Macswiney,

    I agree. Ingram is talking carp about ‘war weary’. My point was that there may be some people who will suddenly realise that Maguire played a part in their lives that they may not be very happy about and whatever about the peace process, may want revenge.

    As for the Short Strand however, that really is crap. DENIS DONALDSON ring any bells.

    Ding dong!!!

    And you forget one very important point. Scap ran interntal security for the entire (11 counties I think) of Northern Command, so he knew EVERYONE!
    That’s serious penetration. And he only left the Ra in 2001 – not ten years earlier as some would have you believe.

  • Eye Spy,

    Having been born and lived in Short Strand my entire life, I am a lot better qualified to talk about it than yourself.

    Donaldson’s involvement within Short Strand Active Service Units ended long, long, before he was first recruited by British intelligence. That particular unit was long regarded as being responsible for many of the major attacks in the city centre area and was regarded as particularly dangerous purely because British Security simply could not get any tangible information on its activities. Your lack of knowledge of internal Republican structures is also both naive and surprising (bearing in mind the amount of posts that you place on this subject).

    The idea that any ALLEGED leader of Northern Command “knows EVERYONE” is totally ludicrous. The whole idea behind the introduction of The Palestinian Cell Structures within the organisation was to prevent any such scenario, no matter how high-ranking the volunteer may have been. Such an individual would have had responsibility for strategic planning primarily, but would most certainly not REMOTELY have known everyone under his command.

    You’ve been watching too many 007 movies, I fear….

  • EyeSpy

    Macswiney,

    Your lack of knowledge of how internal security for PIRA worked (especially after arrests/operations) is most alarming for someone who has survived your entire life in the Strand (where some of your leaders tended to line their own pockets with cash rather than fight any war).

    I fear you have been spoonfed a great deal of nonsense in your life and there is little that will change that now, unlike many republicans I know in the Strand who wised up to that nonsense a long long time ago. And none of them are fans of Mr Bond.

  • Eye Spye,

    Clearly you have no adequate response to offer and that weak response has only served to clarify my earlier point that the likes of yourself and Ingram are little more than fantasists and conspiracy theorists.

    I will repeat my earlier comment;

    “If informers were as widespread as Ingram portrays then the war would NEVER have lasted for more than 30 years. The fact is that many areas of The North remained informer-free zones despite the best attempts of the RUC and British Intelligence”.

    Im afraid that comment is indisputable Eye Spy. If there had been a spy in every “cupboard” the war here would not have lasted for 30 minutes let alone 30 years. The majority of Republicans were decent people who perpetrated a campaign against The British based purely on principle and ideaology. (However uncomfortable that may have been for some).

    I suggest you leave the spy books alone for a bit and read something with a tad more credibilty instead…

  • EyeSpy

    Macswiney,

    I will leave you alone in your own deluded world. If you believe that stuff about informer-free zones, then that is your decision. Many of your neighbours wised up after the murder of Robert McCartney – others years earlier when one of your leaders fecked off to the USA with a large amount of cash that didn’t belong to him.

    Enjoy dinner with Mr Maguire……..

    I’m off to re-read Spycatcher
    Slan

  • ingram

    Macswinney,

    We can agree to disagree upon the war weariness of IRA Volunteers. That is my opinion you are entitled to your own.

    Let us return to the topic.

    What is your opinion on the issuing of Public immunity certificates for both Maguire and Scap in the Lynch case?

    Best regards.

    Ingram

  • Alexander Lynch

    macswiney, this thread is made up entirely of posts where ingram is talking to himself. He knows F**k all.
    Firstly the stuff about the carrigart house and the agents being wired was printed (and on line in an article shortly after the affair of stake knife broke.)
    Secondly the stuff Ingram posts on here is regurgated stuff from the internet and nothing more.
    Thirdly he knows nothing either about maguire or morrison.
    Fourthly if the house in carrigart was swept for listening devices why did sinn fein not sweep connolly house and find the huge bug returned to Tony Blair a short while back in a blaze of media by adams? Was there really a sweeper in those days? I think not, its more acurate to say perhaps a search took place. Why strip lynch for listening devices when all they had to do was run the sweeper over him?

    Keep reading the 007 books Ian Hurst

    ding ding

    Sandy lynch.

  • Eye Spy,

    The fact that the McCartney campaign completely disintegrated after they lost support within their own area, speaks volumes I’m afraid…

    As for our residents “wising up”, Sinn Fein were polling over 1,000 votes in the area prior to the McCartney incident and they are still polling more than 1,000 votes now. (Sorry for letting FACTS get in the way of one of your many “assumptions…”).

    Revealingly, what seems to lie behind your comments is an anti-Republican agenda. if so, then just be honest Eye Spy and say so rather than hiding behind a load of ludicrous nonsense about cash-hungry informers at every corner…

  • ingram

    My Lynch ( Frank).

    I was pleased to correct your misinformation this morning about my service record.

    In respect to Maguire and Danny.

    1. Greg Harkin was present when I met with Barra McGrory at Cork Airport.

    2. The Omdudsman as found the public immunity certificates regarding both Agents and that is what Greg wrote in his piece and explained. Nothing todo with me.

    Do you have any worthwhile comments about the actual topic or is it a poor attemp at moving the debate into other areas more comfortable for you.

    Comments on topic please

    Best regards.

    Ingram

  • Since ‘Martin Ingram’ has been on a rampage ever since he said he was leaving the topic to others – posting at least five more posts since -I suggest that we get back to the primary subject of the thread – why Danny Morrison was set up to look as if he were the PIRA Council’s representative to personally make sure that there was not a repeat of the hurried execution of Joe Fenton during Sandy Lynch’s interrogation?

    I continue to claim that it was to prevent damage control from a far more important agent than either Scap or Sean Maguire – ‘Steak knife’ who had gone off the reservation after he had been made to look as responsible for the cull on The Rock to satisfy the falsely imprisoned Captain Simon Hayward here in Stockholm, and whose killing was more dangerous than that of his solicitor since Pat Finucane obviously would have considerably more credibility in explaining what ‘Steak knife’ had done, and not done for British security agents.

    In sum, ‘Ingram’ is just trying to help Greg Harkin’s false leads in this matter, and Eye Spy is doing what he can to help out.

  • Alexander (not Frank) Lynch.

    Comments are on topic Ian Hurst.

    If there were sweepers in those days then why did they not sweep Lynch instead of stripping him naked? Why did they not sweep Connolly House and find the huge bug returned to Tony Blair in a blaze of publicity a short while back.

    Your service record is very interesting Ian. The stuff you came accross has no limits. Belfast Derry Loughgall Garda etc. For such a lowly servant of the crown forces you really spout an awful loadda crap.

  • ingram

    Hi,

    Alexander and Trow deserve each other.

    Frank.

    My service record is proven. The director of British Irish Rights Watch a well respected by all sides NGO will confirm.

    Back on topic.

    I note both Macswiney and Alexander Frank Lynch both avoid after a number of invitations to address the issue of public immunity certificates which form the main thrust of the Sunday Life Greg Harkin piece!

    I wonder why? LOL

    Ding Ding

    Martin

  • Alexander Lynch

    Ian can you confirm for us, that you are Ian Hurst a once lowly servant of the crown who did nothing but work a desk?

    A) You are Ian Hurst.

    B) Answer the questions put to you first.You are Ian Hurst and why did they strip search Lynch when they had a sweeper, and if they had a sweeper why didn’t they use it in Connolly house and other places and find the bugs?

    Stop making things up, and pretending to know things when you don’t.

    LOL

    ding ding

    Alexander Lynch.

    You are trying very hard. Meanwhile everyone else is getting on with life.

  • watcher

    Alexander Lynch or should I call you “Frank Doherty, Tony, these are just some of the silly names you go under. Frank act your age & not your shoe size.

  • ingram

    Alexander Frankie the wig lynch,

    Get back on topic. Like the Sunday Independant said.

    Martin Ingram the man with a good record at getting it right. Ask Sir John stevens, afterall I got it right about the burning down of his offices. Sir John confirmed that a few years later that I was right.

    You were wrong this morning about my service record and your obviously determined not to stick to the subject of this thread. That is a shame.

    The state as already admitted in court correspondance and in the Blood sunday inquiry that I was a former FRU Handler with 7.5 years Northern Ireland service and that I was an Intelligence corps soldier not a desk Clerk (LOL) You really are not well versed on this subject are you.LOL

    Once more I invite you and Macswinney to comment upon:

    Question: Why would the British state have issued PIC for both Maguire and Scap ? in the Sandy Lynch case

    In your opinion?

    Best Regards.

    Ding Ding and Ding a long

    Martin

  • heck

    Martin Ingram makes a good point about the “public interest certificates”. Brigadier Frank Kitson who wrote on British counterinsurgency policies in various colonies said that the law should become “a propaganda tool for disposing of unwanted members of the public”. This is what the system of law enforcement is in Northern Ireland. At the end of the day the only person telling the truth in this affair is Danny Morrison. I hope he sues the state and makes millions.

    It also shows that that the prosecution service is an integral part of the state’s control apparatus. We need a system to hold these people to account and the US system of electing local district attorneys is my preferred solution.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Susan (Green Flag Woman)

    Rory (South Derry), supposing just for one moment what you said is true, wouldn’t it bother you to think that those you label as “touts” would have been deliberately protected and built up by the Brits with the pre-determined objective of tearing them down again (by exposing them as “touts”) if they ever got close to exercising genuine political power?

    Posted by susan says let greenflag be greenflag on Apr 22, 2007 @ 11:08 PM
    ————————————————-
    Listen Darlin the Brits filled the Provos with Touts from top to bottom and the graveyards filled up with Republican Youth!

    The Man Mr Murray from the Springfeild Rd, interogated every silly little boy who stepped out of line in the mid-late Ninties when the real culprits sat around him.

    My Question is did the Northern Commander Know as he seemingly new everything?

    Now before all the Provo’s jump into the ring – Stop and think – Who sold out who?

  • Mick Hall (Former Daily Ireland journalist)

    Martin Ingram –

    For the public record, when I was working for the Irish Post in 2004 I asked you whether Sean Maguire was an agent. I fielded the question through your publisher’s press officer.

    You said he wasn’t. Why do you now suggest otherwise?

    Mick Hall (Former Daily Ireland journalist)

  • ingram

    Hi Mick,

    For the record you asked me THREE YEARS ago did I know if Sean Maguire was working for the security forces.

    I replied to you that I did not Know! I told you and this remains the case today that I was 100 % certain he was not a FRU source.

    I also fielded a similar question from the blanket and gave a similar response.

    Subsequent to that conversation with you three years ago I have seen certain information and met with various people who have convinced me that he was indeed an Agent . The biggest factor was the Ombudsman discovering the PIC that were issued during the Lynch case for BOTH Scap and Maguire. That information was not available back in 2004. I was aware of the Scap PIC but not the Maguire certificate.

    Some of that new material was published in the book and some it was not available untill after the Ombudsmans investigation was carried out as a result of the complaint made by Danny Morrison convicted IRA man after his legal team met with me and Greg at Cork airport.

    Mick, Our conversation was 3 years ago and subsequent to that conversation new material was uncovered. Thanks for asking though.

    As Greg Harkin makes clear in his Sunday life piece, the Ombudsman found the evidence of the PIC and that other evidence was withheld from the trial judge.Greg makes clear in his piece that his piece is based upon THREE seperate SOURCES, I can confirm that none of those sources are me.

    I will remind you that it was you who made contact with me during 2004 and specifically raised this issue with me about Seanie Maguire being a TOUT.It was you who made the point that it was suspicious how a person Like Seanie could get away with shagging every other prisoners wife and that you would not be surprised if it turned out to be true.You said it was normal to be Knee capped for those offences.

    The Sunday Life piece By Greg had no input what so ever from me and I had no influence over the Ombudsmans inquiry that found the evidence of the issuing of the PIC.

    Do you have a comment to make about why your friend and fellow employer Sean Maguire was protected by the state along with Freddy Scappaticci by the issuing of the Public immunity certificates? if so I will be happy to debate the issue further

    Best Regards.

    Ding Ding

    Martin

  • Dingo Dong

    We are all touts now. Some of us just get paid. n every war, there are winners and losers. Get over it.

  • Watcher.

    The silence from Sean is deafening, he isn’t so quick to rubbish the story now.

    2/1 alpha wait out.

  • heck

    Ingram. I thought your allegation was based on first hand information. Now I am coming to the opinion that you are a conduit for rumors and allegations designed to sow suspicion among republicans. Those using you are hoping your background will convince journalists that these stories are real. Your MMcG allegation seems to me to be a disinformation attempt by some faceless people. I had though the Maguire allegation had some substance but now I doubt that. You are hanging your allegation on the fact that there were two public interest certificates. This could have been deliberately designed to hide the real one.

    By the way I agree with you that these devices make the prosecution service complicit in crimes up to and including murder.

  • Ian

    “You are hanging your allegation on the fact that there were two public interest certificates. This could have been deliberately designed to hide the real one.”

    That’s a good point. If the powers-that-be had allowed one name to be released but not the other, it doesn’t take much nous to work out which one’s the agent – the one that wasn’t named. By getting a PIIC for both, it leaves a bit of ambiguity.

    Ingram’s jumping to the conclusion that it must mean both are agents. But the fact that he can’t even get the terminology right undermines his credibility – it’s PIIC not PIC (Public Interest Immunity Certificate).

  • Ian

    Similarly, if Scap had been the only one who left the scene and avoided arrest, that would have looked suspicious. The fact that both he and Maguire got away could have been at Scap’s suggestion to cause obfuscation.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Ian: “That’s a good point. If the powers-that-be had allowed one name to be released but not the other, it doesn’t take much nous to work out which one’s the agent – the one that wasn’t named. By getting a PIIC for both, it leaves a bit of ambiguity. ”

    Comme ci, comme ca. There are two places that make excellent places to hide a secret. One is in plain sight. The second is inside another secret.

    Ian: “Ingram’s jumping to the conclusion that it must mean both are agents. But the fact that he can’t even get the terminology right undermines his credibility – it’s PIIC not PIC (Public Interest Immunity Certificate). ”

    Maybe, but maybe not… the man was a sergeant, not a bureaucrat or lawyer. Tongues (and fingers) are lazy — “pee-aye-cee” sings, conversationally, whilst “pee-aye-aye-cee” or “pee-double aye-cee” is a bit more awkward.

    Enlisted men don’t talk like bureaucrats, especially if they have a job that requires them to get their hands dirty.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Ian: “Similarly, if Scap had been the only one who left the scene and avoided arrest, that would have looked suspicious. The fact that both he and Maguire got away could have been at Scap’s suggestion to cause obfuscation. ”

    Mayhap, but it doesn’t explain other things, such as Sean’s alleged flouting of the IRA’s “cultural norms,” if you will, seemingly with impunity. Now, it could be that no one had the heart to do for Sean what he was doing to others… or it could be something else.

  • mick Hall

    ’Martin Ingram’
    In your response to my question you have included a number of factual inaccuracies – I can only conclude in an attempt to personalise the debate and deliberately disinform.

    First, while writing a review and feature on the book ‘stakeknife’ for the Irish Post in London I approached yourself and Greg Harkin for comment. I was told by your publisher’s office that I should email questions to them so they could be passed on to you. Apparently you did not have access to email.
    My final question asked specifically whether reports in a Sunday Times piece about Sean Maguire were true, i.e whether he had worked as a security force agent.

    In a written reply passed on by the publisher’s press officer you simply said Sean Maguire had not worked as an agent. YOU DID NOT say you did not know.
    More sinisterly you claimed I made remarks about Maguire’s sex life and expressed a personal opinion that he was an informer.
    You stated: “It was you who made the point that it was suspicious how a person Like Seanie could get away with shagging every other prisoners wife and that you would not be surprised if it turned out to be true.You said it was normal to be Knee capped for those offences.”

    I assume you mean’t I expressed these opinions as a (somewhat bizzare) preface to the question passed on to your publisher’s press officer? Can you prove I made these remarks? I can categorically state that I NEVER DID.

    Your dishonest and personalised reply to my enquiry has cleared up one thing in my mind. You are a liar, plain and simple.

    Any credibility you once enjoyed has been disappearing with every opportunistic comment you post on these sites.

    If the truth does prevail it won’t be because of a British army guttersnake like web-cipher ‘Martin Ingram’. Like you said Jack, Greg referred to three sources to stand up his story – you weren’t one of them. I’m sure Greg was well aware that had your finger prints been spotted on his Sunday Life page the veracity of its content would have been open to serious scrutiny.
    We all read with interest what journalists like Greg Harkin have to report. Most now treat your self-serving comments with the contempt they serve.
    The moral, political and factual inconsistencies of your dubious position have become so apparent that it is difficult to justify spending time giving you a considered reply. I will not waste my time responding to anything further you have to say.

    The other Mick Hall

  • Watcher

    Mick, are things getting too hot for you ? you just kicked it off, now finish it.

  • EyeSpy

    EVERYONE…

    To conclude….

    Everyone hates Ingram aka Jack
    Magic Mushroom Macswiney thinks there weren’t any informers; Rebel Rory thinks they were all over the place.
    Walter “Frank D” Mitty is spouting the sort of nonsense that made him a laughing stock in the 80s.
    Barry “registered informer” P is also still mixing it although he gets paid for it.
    Mick Red Under the Bed Hall didn’t say Sean “Throw Sandy on the Bed” Maguire was a love-cheating FRU agent who got away with jumping prisoners’ wives (and then some) but did say Ingram aka Adam has (belatedly) lost the plot.
    Ian (probably Marty Millar) takes the theory a little too far in order to create obfuscation!
    Dread – despite the name – is dead on the money, rather than dread on….
    And Heck is good craic – Watcher’s just a mixer.

    To really conclude….

    Sean Maguire was a Special Branch agent
    Scap was a FRU agent.

    Together with Alexander Lynch (the real one, not the one posting here) they helped put Danny Morrison away.

    Sean keeps his head down and hopes it all goes away. Another grubby secret from the dirty war has been exposed and the victims get feck all as usual…

  • ingram

    Mick,

    As you know but do not make clear in your above piece we have enjoyed many telephone conversations about this and other aspects of Republican collusion with the Brits over the years.I did indeed provide you with a number of written answers posed to a broad subject and I have not sought to deny that. You are clearly embarrassed by me revealing that it was you who raised this subject about Maguire being a tout with me. That is a shame, but cast your mind back to your book review about Stakeknife and Freddy Scap. You ridiculed the story when that Book was published yet in conversations with me you made it clear that you did believe that Freddy was a tout but that your readers dont like to read about it and that you had to toe the party line. I understood that point , just like I understand your defence today of your friend and former employer Seanie Maguire . Your reluctance to debate the core issues surrounding this case are a clear example of your reluctance to address the substance of the issue and feel comfortable in mounting a diversionary attack upon me. May I remind you I was not a source to the Sunday Life piece.

    The main thrust of those answers both in writting and on the phone were as I made clear yesterday and you appear not to contradict.

    1. I did not know that Sean Maguire was a tout over three years ago and that I was CERTAIN that he was not a FRU source .

    The piece by Greg last weekend actually reinforces that position of mine. The latest exposure of information comes from other agencies and Officers not connected to the FRU and should confirm to the reader that he ( Maguire) was not an Army source.

    Today we have seen many developments in this case, primarily the complaint made by Danny Morrison which resulted in the Ombudsmans investigation. That investigation revealed a number of certificates were issued by the state to keep the roles of two Agents from the Trial Judge. Back in 2004 my crystal ball was not clear and nobody could have predicted that save one or two inside the Branch and of course the prosecutors office.

    I note that you along with one or two others on this board completely avoid the main plank of Greg Harkins piece published in the Sunday Life even after a specific invite to debate the issue.

    1. Why DO YOU think the state issued the certificates to the court .

    2. When this story first broke Sean Maguire and the Andytout News promised to take up the legal fight and to mount a strong defence. Maguire failed to carry out that public promise. Why do you think he backed down Mick?

    3. Maguire could ask either Danny Morrison or the Ombudsman to publish what they know of the case so far and to ask that they make it clear that he does not feature within their investigations.? Do YOU think he will??

    Come on Mick,

    Lets get back on topic and discuss the real core issues to this excellent story by Greg Harkin former journalist of the year.

  • EyeSpy

    Mick

    I’m afraid Ingram is right on one point at least. Maguire and Marty Millar and Robin Livingstone issued statements three years ago saying they were going to sue a newspaper which said Maguire was an informer (I think it was either the Mirror or the Sunday People).

    From memory the Irish News even carried this legal threat on its front page – but nothing ever happened.

    At the end of the day there will be those who believe Maguire and those who believe Sunday Life. People will take their pick.

    But there is another angle that no-one picked up from Sunday’s articles.

    Lynch shot dead two people (in INLA feud). This was known to the RUC yet he was allowed to continue to work as an agent. I’ve heard the family of one of those men is now planning a visit to the Ombudsman….Nuala will be glad of the retirement.

    Love and peace…

  • Markus

    Ehh, Ingram…

    I’ve just looked up the Irish Post’s archive:

    http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irishpost/ents/theenemies.asp

    It contain’s the reporter Mick Hall’s original 2004 review and feature on Stakeknife book. It contains comments by Harkin and a positive appraisal of the book.

    Nowhere does it rubbish the Scap claims. You obviously never read the pieces, so you are invariably talking bollocks when you say he publicly rubbished the Scap story but privately voiced his real suspicions to you.

    I find it hard to believe someone like Mick would have phone conversations with you on these matters.

    Obviously Jack you’re trying to stir the pot here on the Maguire story. Nice try, but you’ve been caught out. Again.

  • EyeSpy

    Markus

    Forget Ingram and his views which most people on here seem to disagree with anyway.

    There is no pot to stir. It appears many republicans now believe what some of them suspected – that Maguire was an agent/informer/tout – call him what you like.

    This has serious repercussions because one victim of his work was Danny Morrison (no less). But what about all the others who either lost their lives or ended up doing porridge at the Maze stadium. You can bet your last penny that this is being investigated right now….

  • DK

    Markus/EyeSpy,

    The internet is a wonderful thing – while Markus’s link is to a bland journalistic piece, try this link for a more robust article by Mick Hall:
    name

    Here is a quote, from the article:

    “‘Martin Ingram’ is described in the book publisher’s blurb, as a whistleblower. Maybe, but for all the accusations he makes in the book about informers, the British Army, the RUC Special Branch and the British security services that where running in the north of Ireland during the post 1969 troubles, those he makes concerning the man who has been publicly named by him as Stakeknife, Freddie Scappaticci, can at best, if we are to believe ‘Ingram’, be described as tittle tattle, more often than not seemingly gained second if not third hand. On what evidence does he name Scappaticci as the informer Stakeknife?”

    and another:

    “As to Freddie Scappaticci being Stakeknife the evidence is circumstantial, but in the north of Ireland circumstantial evidence has never stopped people being sentenced to life imprisonment nor having the back of their heads blasted off. What is clear the day Scappaticci decided to speak to the team from the TV programme the Cook Report and badmouth Martin McGuiness (transcript of the conversation pp69), whether he was an informer of the FRU at that time or not his goose was truly cooked.”

  • mickhall

    There is no pot to stir. It appears many republicans now believe what some of them suspected – that Maguire was an agent/informer/tout – call him what you like.
    eyespy

    I know not whether there is a pot to stir nor whether Sean Mag Uidhir worked for an agency of the British security forces. However, unfortunately Sean does have questions to answer as he undoubtedly said he would be taking legal advice etc when these allegations last arose. It could be that his legal advisors told him to drop the matter, what ever their advice he should put it into the public arena not least because he is not a private citizen but a public figure, due to both his work as an editor and a political activist.

    As to the sources for these claims, myself on a matter such as this, I do not regard a former or current member of the security forces as being an impartial source. Although having said this Greg Harkin has a good record as a diligent checker of facts and he claimed he had three sources and I see no reason to doubt him on this, although all three could be telling lies, after all that is part of the deadly and destructive game of criminal collusion.

    The alternative is that they are telling the truth, which would be yet another reason to bring the dirty war out from the shadows
    into the light of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, after all this was not a victimless war, now was it?

  • EyeSpy

    MickHall/DK/Ingram et al…

    Mick has hit the nail on the head….Truth Commission Time.

    As for his book review, he was not the only sceptic about Scap at the time. Morrison himself publicly at least would not condemn his former comrade. It was only last year in an article that Morrison accepted publicly that Scap was a tout who may have killed innocent volunteers (innocent of touting that is).

    And ask yourselves this question: Do you believe Morrison would have lodged his case with the Criminal Cases Review Commission (as reported in Sunday Life) if he did not believe that agents were involved in setting him up.

    Mick – Sean took no action because he had no action to take: simple. He and his Mercedes-driving pals in Andytown went bonkers over the first revelations, filled acres of newsprint about how they were going to sue rings around them and then, suddenly, not a single word. Not a writ, not a column in one of their fine organs, not even a sentence.

    It is my belief that this is because the Ra knows full well about Maguire. He will be found out. They always are. And ceasefire or not…just look at Denis

  • mickhall

    DK

    As confusing as this must be for readers, I [mickhall] wrote the Blanket piece you posted, not the Mick Hall you were referring to. Clearly the two of us should get together to see if we can work some thing out over this byline.

    I have made my own position on outing informers on a number of occasions clear, before I publicly accept than an individual is an informer and state they are in print I need hard evidence.

    Having said that I realize revealing people as informers is a complex business and one of the tactics people use is to drip drip info in the hope that the person accused of being an informer will cut and run etc.

    What ever anyone may think about ‘ingram’ he did play a part in outing scap, who was a pretty unsavory figure, but eyespy is correct in that this type of thread should not be diverted around ‘ingram’..

  • Ian

    “Ian takes the theory a little too far in order to create obfuscation!”

    I wasn’t not stating an opinion one way or another on who is or isn’t an informer. I was just outlining one possible scenario. i.e IF only one of the two people carrying out the interrogation was an informer, then applying a PIIC to only one of them would effectively have revealed that fact to the Republican movement, rendering the PIIC pointless. So logically, PIIC’s would have been issued in respect of both of them whether one or two of them were actually touts.

    IF this scenario is correct, it could also answer another question that has been raised:

    “Sean took no action because he had no action to take: simple.”

    For Maguire to publically put forward the scenario I suggested would be a de facto admission that he was present at the scene of a crime, effectively incriminating himself, unless a Truth Commission is set up to allow such issues to be publically aired without fear of prosecution.

  • Ian

    Sorry about the double negative there “wasn’t not”.

    Anyway, so the fact that Maguire is still signing nomination papers for Kelly etc may suggest he has explained himself more fully in private, to the satisfaction of the Republican movement, than he is able to do in public without leaving himself open to the actions of the Historic Enquiries Team. Which I suppose ties in with the discussions on another thread on that topic. i.e. to what extent should former PIRA members be telling what they know to the HET?

    This issue is likely to remain messy until a Truth & Reconciliation Commission is set up to allow a de facto amnesty for such information to be publically aired. I would have thought it’s the British Government rather than the Provos who are most opposed to such a set-up, as they’re the ones who make the bigger claim to the moral high ground.

  • EyeSpy

    Ian

    Points taken. I wasn’t having a go…just having a laugh.

    However I do not accept your theory was possible. The PIICs and the issuing of them were only uncovered by the Ombudsman 14 years later (and that information leaked from the Ombudsman’s office to Harkin see: Stakeknife Morrison chapter).

    The idea that anyone knew they had been secretly issued other than those involved does not stand up to scrutiny.

    As for Maguire and the acceptance by Gerry Kelly, Carol Cullen et al that he is a sound and trusted man, this is clear.

    However – and it is a very very BIG HOWEVER – there are others in north Belfast in particular who are of a different view.

    I also agree with you that Sean can’t mention his role in Morrison’s arrest for fear of prosecution – that’s why we need a Truth Commission.

    And you are right – the British would have more to fear of one than anyone else.

  • sweet

    the irish post article

    [i]The MoD has currently imposed an injunction on Greg’s collaborator Martin Ingram, accusing him of breaching the Official Secrets Act. This means that for legal reasons in England and Wales, reporting specific details from their book is precarious. The injunction, interestingly, does not apply to Northern Ireland, and Greg is contemptuous of this fact.

    He says: “It’s clear that they don’t care what people think — as long as no one is being offended in the Home Counties.”

    So what motivated the two men to write the book? Harkin’s personal and professional reasons are easy to understand, but what has Ingram to gain? Why would he turn his back on his former comrades to expose dubious activities and misinformation to which he was once institutionally linked?

    “I was suspicious about his motives myself,” says Harkin. “But I came to trust him. He contacted me initially after reading my article on the Steven’s Inquiry to point out inaccuracies.

    “Shortly afterwards, we met up and subsequently collaborated on some articles. When the injunctions came, I was convinced Ingram was telling the truth.[/i]

    was that not the purpose of the injunctions? lend credibility to ingram and allow revelations where damage can be inflicted.

    nice touches in that article, the irish wife, living in the south. add to that his love of dear old ireland and the wearing of the green.

  • As usual, I cannot understand how this thread about Greg Harkin’s discovery started out, and how it has continued.

    As I understand it, Danny Morrison, one-time Sinn Fein director, is going to have his conviction of being the sixth member of the PIRA Council, and its representative at the interrogation of Sandy Lynch – to make sure that another Joe Fenton fiasco didn’t occur, killing the suspect below a full, fair inquiry was conducted – overturned because he was never in the Council, and did not go to Lynch’s interrogation in this capacity but under a hoax, apparently to protect someone else really on the Council who was apparently behind Fenton’s execution, and other false counterespionage inquiries.

    British security officials apparently decided to suit up Morrison in this fashion – what would protect the real tout on the Council while seeing this fallguy off in the process.

    The question then has nothing to do with either Freddie Scappaticci or Sean Maguire since we know that whoever’s agent they might have been, neither of them was ever on the PIRA Council.

    So who is the person no one is willing to talk about?

    And, of course, if my analysis is wrong, please correct it.

  • heck

    one part of this people seem to avoid

    It is clear (at least to me) that Danny Morrison’s version of events is the most credible-that he went with the intention of setting up a press conference to expose a tout.

    instead the police/security services/army/prosecution service/ judicary conspired to frame him for someting that he did’nt do. (and I hope he makes lots of money out of it!)

    what does this say about the whole british “justice” system? If they can do this to a figure as prominent as Danny Morrison they can do it to anyone, including you and me.
    This is about the power of the state and the rule of law, and in any free society the state has to learn that it only has powers given KNOWINGLY to it by the people. I agree with Mickhall that we need a truth commission but it should be focused at the state and its activities. We know what loyalists and republicans did. Over 10000 people pasted through Nor Iron’s prison system and their activities were exposed. The state’s never where. This is what the british and David Trimble fear.

  • You are so right, heck, but the British will never permit a Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) – what I recommended to SoS Paul Murphy after providing a series of articles about why it was needed, and whose receipt was acknowledged by the NIO – because it would show them to be worse than the Argies, even in the ‘Steak knife’ affair.

    After he tried to lead both sides to agree to a negotiated settlement of The Troubles – what ultimately led to the British setting him up as the fallguy for the cull on The Rock because of blowback from Captain Simon Hayward, Ops Officer of the 14 Intelligence Company’s South Detachment (June 1985-March 1987) – inducing him to conclude that the security forces were worse than the least focused republican killers like Gerard Steenson, ‘Steak knife’ mounted a counterattack which forced Downing Street to the negotiating table.

    In sum, ‘Steak knife’ now has nothing to fear from a TRC.

  • MUTE POINT

    Hey Ingrim

    If you know that much about Maguire what was his role in GHQ staff – its a pretty big department with many functions you know? ‘Roving role’? Is that just another phrase for saying “I know little about Maguire only what I’ve been told by my contemptible, low-level informan… I mean, good Republican friends in Belfast.

    You’re a bit of a joke ding, ding man. Why don’t you spend more time at Bebo. Isn’t that more your level? You can tell the kiddy’s what an important FRU agent handler you were, instead of conceited, bitter little man you are, full of lies, half-truths and hate.
    We all know Sean compromised himself, but your input into these discussions is a constant distraction. Intentional?

  • EyeSpy

    Trow – keep taking the pills.

    Heck – you are absolutely right in everything you said in your last post. Most people will believe Morrison and will understand why he is taking the case. To summarise:

    1. Scap/Maguire/Lynch with their FRU/RUC handlers set him up – it’s called entrapment. Anto Murray, who accompanied Morrison, also has a case.

    2. Lynch lied to the court when he said he’d never been involved in murder/attempted murder. Sunday Life article shows he actually killed two people whilst working as a Branch agent. This is a very very significant development.

    Mute Point – I also agree with you. Ingram’s involvement in this debate only serves to give Maguire cover. Those who don’t believe he was a well-paid tout will use Ingram’s posts as ‘proof’ of their argument.

    Trow – I have just one more thing to say to you – Purdysburn

  • Exactly what I would expect from you, EyeSpy.

    Instead of having anything to say about what I have posted on this thread and others, you continue to attack me most illogically in a personal way – suggesting that I keep talking pills, apparently an allusion to drugs, and that I, living in Stockholm, go to a hospital in Belfast.

    Perhaps, you should stop talking yours, and start doing some basic reading about the world.

  • EyeSpy

    Trow,

    Nothing you say makes sense; it is balderdash.
    To summarise – not the full shilling; six cans short of a six-pack; ten slices short of a loaf etc etc.

  • And, EyeSpy, your continuous personal attacks on me instead of what I contend about British covert operations during The Troubles, and your complaints about ‘Martin Ingram’ only provide him and his ilk cover by claiming that it was all done by Sandy Lynch, Freddie, and Sean Maguire.

    You wouldn’t happen to be another Intelligence Insider, would you?

  • EyeSpy

    Hi Trow

    Any more illusions over the weekend. MI5 kill John Paul 1? Tell us – what mad conspiracy theory have you come up with this time? Bertie Ahern’s a woman…Adams is really Mary Lou in disguise…Go on, entertain us.

  • Just noticed your silly personal attack, Eye Spy.

    Over the weekend and today, I have been checking on the massive cockups MI5 was responsible for during Operation Crevice – what resulted in the Madrid and London bombings which killed nearly 300 people.

    For more on what now Director Jonathn ‘Bob’ Evans aka William Perkins has to answer for, see my post on the thread about the director with the ‘impeccable credentials’.

  • Ian

    When I heard commentators on last nights’ news (regarding the connection between the bomb plotters convicted yesterday and the 7th July bombers) saying stuff like “Yes the 7th July bombers slipped through the net but we shouldn’t be too hard on the security services, they did stop the Operation Crevice plot”, I was reminded of Steve Coogan’s swimming pool attendant character in The Day Today:

    “In 1976, no-one died;
    In 1977, no-one died;
    In 1978, no-one died;
    In 1979, no-one died;
    In 1980, no-one died;
    In 1981, no-one died;
    In 1982, no-one died;
    In 1983, someone died;
    In 1984, no-one died;
    In 1985, no-one died…..”

  • EyeSpy

    Trow – chill – it’s called a joke.

    Ian –
    Taking bets that someone on the 7/7 plot (not one of the bombers obviously) was working for Box 500 and/or Special Branch.

    After all they let Sean Maguire do all sorts in IRA GHQ (including murder) and he’s still working for them, though now it’s acceptable apparently

  • Oilibhear Chromaill

    Apparently the ‘man not ball’ rule is so relaxed on this thread – or in relation to this particular person – that people are allowed come on and accuse people, without any evidence whatsoever, of serious crimes not to mention other activities.

    This is, perhaps, where Mick could come and visit to hand out his famous red cards rather than waste time in other places where the abuse of commenting policy seems less certain.

  • forlorn fairy

    Oilibhear I totally agree. You have been targeted with a yellow, for much less than this stuff here, totally unfair. These type of threads are here only to provide a platform to play the man rather than the ball. This thread is totally useless, and is nothing more than mud slinging at a particular person. Annonymous posters attacking an individual, whose good name has now been dragged thru the mud. It is a place for people with nothing to say on any other subject other than these ‘spy’ agenda and is quite frankly boring and irrelevant.
    I really wish mick would put an end to them.

  • EyeSpy

    Olly, mo chara,

    Couldn’t agree more. Seanie is completely clean. Never worked for anyone. Never compromised operations. Never worked for the Branch or the Ra..cos he’s a genuine and great gaelgoir just like you Mr Cromwell..

    Morrison; CastleCourt; Ardoyne…..

    Slan Abhaile Chromaill

  • EyeSpy

    Forlorn Fairy

    Boring and irrelevant……spot on. Sean doesn’t have a good name.

    You’re OFF!

  • Oilibhear Chromaill

    It’s fairly clear what the agenda of this thread is and it’s fairly clear also that sluggerotoole is facilitating the incessant attempts of character assassination of Seán Maguidhir. Fair enough if there’s evidence to back it up – even though a court room would be a better forum and perhaps that’s where this is headed – but when there’s none, then slugger is riding for a fall.

  • Sorry, EyeSpy, but you must improve your so-called jokes if you expect any laughs.

    John Paul I was apparently assassinated, but his murder has never been established, much less who did it. You are apparently confusing him with his successor John Paul II who ‘Gun-for-Hire’ Mehmet Agca attempted to kill for some yet unknown party.

    With two unsolved assassinations, I would not rule out anyone, not even MI5, especially in the first one.

    As for the 7/7 bombings, MI5 ruined its connection with the bombers by locking up those who knew about the real terrorists from Waheed Mahamoud’s PC UK Inernet Cafe in Crawley after Operation Crevice was closed down after the Madrid mass murder – the five suspects who were convicted yesterday.

    Among them, possibly Omar Khyam, was the MI5 informer, and one of their parents in Crawley complained about their being set up by someone working for the Security Service called “Gould” who was calling for them to flee to Pakistan after the tragedy in Spain on 3/11/2004.

    There apparently is a MI6 officer by that name who was stationed in Pakistan then, helping out in Britain in Operation Crevice in March 2004, and is currently serving in Tehran.

    With the Crawley Five locked up, the Khan group was given over a year without any serious surveillance to arrange the London bombings.

    For more on this, see my article:

    http://codshit.blogspot.com/archives/2004_11_28_codshit_archive.html

    Talk about inter-service rivalry ruining the finished product, this takes the cake.

  • MartyM

    I don’t know whether or not Seán Maguidhir was a tout and nor do I care, Oliver. According to some of the earlier links I’ve just read, he was named in court as the IRA man who delivered Sandy Lynch into the hands of Internal Security. So where’s the legal problem? It’s a matter of record that he was in the IRA – court record and therefore privileged as a man of your experience should know. Then there’s the tout allegation. It is the duty (indeed legal duty) of every citizen to pass information about a crime to the relevelant authorities. Seán Maguidhir has probably asked you to post the last post (or maybe you are he), but it doesn’t stand up. And threatening slugger on a free speech site is the kind of thing people should expect…..

  • EyeSpy

    Agreed MartyM,

    Olly (aka Sean)is hitting below slugger’s belt. Clever use of the fada on Sean’s name too. You are obviously a very skilled Gaelic user….. How do you do that on a PC anyone?

  • Pádraigín Drinan

    Ctrl Alt and letter á

  • Oilibhear Chromaill

    Nobody has asked me to post anything here and obviously you’re as ignorant as you are biased if you think I’m Sean Maguidhir.

    I made no threat regarding free speech on this site as my point was at the uneven application of the man not ball rule by Slugger.

    I think that some of the accusations being bandied about here by some of the posters may actually be a greater threat to free speech as it will inevitably lead to a court room and that’s not at my behest and then you may find Slugger’s very future in peril. Some of the stuff being posted by the likes of Eye Spy et al is downright foolish and irresponsible and it should stop.

    But then again that is presuming a level of maturity about some of these posters which they may not possess.