“sheer persistence and refusal to give up.”

In an effort to avoid hitting the quick in the nail-biter we’re following here.. at 81 for 4 off 27.3 overs there’s a rain delay [which would apparently leave Ireland in a winning position and put Pakistan, a seeded team, out of the competition – Ed]. How about a player’s perspective, from Andrew White, of Ireland’s opening match in the Cricket World Cup.. only the third ever drawn match in the competition. [Hmm.. “a best wishes fax from Mr Bertie Ahern” but not from the Secretary of State for Wales, etc? – Ed]

Having watched the final few overs on television replays the emotions that were etched across every face of every supporter shown meant I could only smile. If ever there was an indication to me that it’s easier being in the middle than in the stands, then this was it.

Adds The Guardian’s Andy Bull will be there ’til the end. He adds “And for all you Irish folk trying to figure out the rain rules I’ll say this: at the moment Ireland will win by Duckworth Lewis calculations (D/L is an incredibly complex formula that decides who wins rain-affected matches). When play starts expect Ireland to be facing a reduced total from the original 132 because of those calculations. OK?” New target 128 runs.. from 47 overs? 133-7, 0 needed. Superb 6 to finish with. Ireland win. Pakistan out of the competition. Unless Zimbabwe replicate that performance against Pakistan, Ireland will go through to the final stages. Final Cricket history, guys, cricket history.

,

  • SuperSoupy

    Is it too early to laugh at Ed Joyce?

  • slug

    “Is it too early to laugh at Ed Joyce?”
    Yes, this is still awfully tight.

  • slug

    Though saying that N OBrien has just knocked a SIX! Giving 108/4. Which makes it better…

  • slug

    Then he’s out and were on 108/5 which makes things a lot worse under D/L.

  • inuit_goddess

    118-7 – it goes to the wire…

  • inuit_goddess

    FOUR! excellent… 122/7

    anyone know where we can get radio commentary?

  • Garibaldy

    IG,

    Apparently radio 4 or 5 Live extra. Ive got sky

  • Garibaldy

    so that’s second hand it shoud say

  • inuit_goddess

    Excellent – thanks a mil, 5live extra online i’ve got it…

  • Garibaldy

    Nay bother. Those who support foreign games are having a stressful day. 🙂

  • GavBelfast

    Live coverage on BBC Radio Five Live now, too – on the Ample Nolan’s show.

  • GavBelfast

    Scores level!!!

  • Garibaldy

    Sin e. Let’s hope Musharraf nukes Dublin

  • SuperSoupy

    Woo hoo! A 6 to finish.

    *opens a tin, raises it to the boys and laughs at Ed Joyce*

  • inuit_goddess

    Ah brilliant brilliant that does it…

  • Liam Gordon

    Nice touch getting 133- got past Pakistan’s first innings and did not need the D/L ‘help’.

  • Mick Fealty

    Stunning…

  • merrie

    I am amazed. Ireland may be playing Australia on 27 March! If so, I’ll be in a dilemma: I never have had to support both sides in a game.

    Ireland may beat the Aussies. Look the Poms beat them in the finals of the 1-day cricket series just finished in Australia.

  • Mick Fealty

    SS,

    Ed Joyce did what any talented Irishman would do who had the chance. But tonight you’d have to say that at least some of the main chance tips towards Irish Cricket!!

  • esmereldavillalobos

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

  • esmereldavillalobos

    Stuff the rugby, this is the proudest I’ve ever felt to be Irish!

  • merrie

    Ireland may be playing Australia on 27 March!

    That is, if the Aussies aren’t thrashed by The Netherlands. That has happened before

  • Liam Gordon

    Can’t agree with you on the Joyce thing- reminds me of the fast one pulled by James McIlroy on the Irish Athletics a few years ago. Mercenary.

    You seem to be advocating “I-must-do-right-by-myself” as the only measure. Thankfully the likes of Félix Savón and Teófilo Stevenson had higher motivations.

    Could the rugby and cricket lads that toured South Africa in the 70s and 80s not use the same defense? Doing right by myself?

    If you represent a country and use that as a spring board to jump ship, or pick your national affiliation simply on what’s best for you at that moment in time, then you’ve got a big hole where your ethically core should be.

    If you represent a country and use that as a spring board to jump ship, or pick your national affliation simply on what’s best for you at that moment in time, then you’ve got a big hole where your ethically core should be.

  • SuperSoupy

    Completely agree with Liam. Those who change Nationality for personal glory can’t compete in the sportsman stakes with those who won for Ireland today.

    Joyce is very small Englishman compared to the giants of Irish cricket who delivered today.

  • Garibaldy

    Yeah Soupy and Liam. Did you hear the accents of the giants of Irish cricket?

  • Mick Fealty

    SS,

    “Joyce is very small Englishman compared to the giants of Irish cricket who delivered today.”

    A neat argument, but it completely ignores the fact that without Ed we would not have been here in the first place. And in the second, we relied on the English first class county game to give us the quality of Morgan and Niall O’Brien, who gave us the backbone to pick off the runs as they came (not even mentioning the Aussie lads, who get through purely on cricket’s residency rule).

  • Doctor Who

    Folk please please please can we not just celebrate a wonderful and amazing victory…right now i couldn´t give a toss about Ed Joyce, and if you understood cricket you would know that Mick is right.

    The greatest moment is Irish cricket ever and probably the biggest cricket upset ever.

    I am imensely proud of them.

  • SuperSoupy

    Garibaldy,

    Is your point the 5 northern players or the 5 non-Irish players (who have never played for another national team)?

    Joyce jumped ship.

    I’m not convinced about having foreign players but I certainly think changing allegiance after declaring for a country is a bit pathetic.

  • SuperSoupy

    Dr Who,

    I’m celebrating alright but what’s an Irish victory on St Paddy’s Day without a bit of banter?

    Joyce was the biggest story in Irish cricket until very recently, until Irish Cricket replaced him as the biggest story.

  • Doctor Who

    Supersoupy

    Point taken but can we leave for another day, i´m sure if I get involved in this argument I might mention football and former Northern Irland youth international Darron Gibson now included in the ROI senior squad …damit you got me you fink…

    Ach just crack open another beer and leave it for later.

    What a performance.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    FFS – Joyce has done what any Irish cricketer would do, given the chance – he’s given himself the opportunity to play Test Cricket. He’s been on an Ashes tour, he’s opened the batting against McGrath, Lee, Shane Bond and as Mick says, was a major reason for Ireland being at the World Cup. From cricinfo – ‘In the 2005 tournament he was invaluable to the cause, racking up two hundreds and two more fifties in five innings, to ensure qualification for the 2007 World Cup in the Caribbean’.

    Its not about changing allegiance, its about Irish sportsmen giving themselves the chance to play against the best. A hit-out against Pakistan and the West Indies in the one-day jamboree is all well-and-good, but Joyce has the possibility of playing regular One-Day internationals and the pinnacle of cricket, Test matches – you should be proud of him rather than begrudging him.

  • SuperSoupy

    Dr Who,

    And the best counter to Gibson’s decision was for the country he left to become better/bigger.

  • Liam Gordon

    Gar- how many of the current Irish team played with their native countries, helping them to qualification and then jumped ship?

    It is the ‘I must do right by myself’ attitude I’m objecting too re: Cuban boxers and supporting discrimination through sporting links. The “Joyce-McIlroy” defense can be use to justify anything.

    Like the ‘two-wrongs-make-a-right’ defense. I tried that last time when I was nine- the primary school teacher didn’t buy it.

  • SuperSoupy

    Did the Joyce brothers make sporting history when they played against each other for different nations?

  • Liam Gordon

    “Its not about changing allegiance, its about Irish sportsmen giving themselves the chance to play against the best.”

    WGM- isn’t that what the ‘rebel’ criketers and rugby players said when they played South Africa?
    We wanted to play the best?

    I understand Joyce’s motivation and I understand the role that English club criket plays. I also understand pulling a Keano and leaving the team with a gapping hole is wrong. Using your teammates as a stepping stone is stunningly selfish. At least McIlroy only let himself down- Joyce dropped the rest of his squad in it.

    “What is one million dollars compared to the love of eight million Cubans?”
    Teófilo Stevenson

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    The McIlroy situation is different to the Joyce situation. McIlroy could still be in the Olympics regardless of the country he represents. Joyce cannot play Test cricket for Ireland.

    Brian Carney, who has just signed for Munster, played in the rugby league World Cup for Ireland, the Tri-Nations for Great Britain (as the team are now called, having dropped the Ireland bit) and will possibly line up for Ireland in the rugby union World Cup. Will anyone care if he scores the winning try against the French?

  • Mick Fealty

    Guys, just get on and read your Wisden. It may not be ideologically pure, but it’s entirely understandable. Ed got us here: “end of…”

    NB: Kyle McCallon’s wee bit of Gaelic Footballing with the ball after a catch on the outfield, should be taken as it was given: ie, with the kind of generosity that is rare in these parts…

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    ‘isn’t that what the ‘rebel’ criketers and rugby players said when they played South Africa?’

    Not anywhere remotely close to the same thing, and disingenuous to suggest it is.

  • brendan,belfast

    I do not understand this game for a second (what duration is an ‘over’? and why does their quantity matter?) but….this was great to watch on BBC highlights just now. from a gaa fan to Ireland’s cricket team (cricket team! holy flute….) – congratulations.

  • esmereldavillalobos

    Were there any complaints about nationality at Italia ’90?

    Nuff said.

  • Garibaldy

    Seeing as Mick has decreed an end to discussion on the nationality issue I’ll leave it there, except to say that I have no problem with people representing different countries if the laws of the game allow them to do so, whether they’re either too good or too bad for their native team. The exception is Kevin Pieterson whose attitude to quotas in South African cricket I find reprehensible.

    On a more pleasant I also noticed the solo with the cricket ball and thought it was cool. The important question as I see it is now can I afford to go for part of the Super 8 at least.

  • Liam Gordon

    IIRC the ‘rebels’ claimed they wanted to play against the best. They were mercenaries…as is Joyce.

    Point taken re: McIlroy. However, he was not in a team sport. Only he suffered from the consequences. Joyce used his team mates as a stepping stone. Pretty shoddy.

    This has nothing to do with being Irish. I’m getting the impression that Mick thinks there is a ‘national identity’ component to this. Not so. In my line of work I sign a do not compete clause- the skills and knowledge I acquire on my job should not be used to enrich myself should I decide to go work for a competitor.

    However, according to yous- the “I’m alright jack” attitude is the way forward.

  • SuperSoupy

    Brendan,

    6 balls in an over. Each game has 50 overs per team. It matters as that limits the time to score (if not all out) or limits your chances to chase the other team’s total.

  • brendan,belfast

    supersoupy – thanks.

  • Mick Fealty

    Gari,

    I was not trying to legislate, just trying to grab the tall end of a specious argument, and turn it over (rugby style)…

    Feckin’ superb end to a Paddy’s day though…

  • esmereldavillalobos

    Garibaldy

    Re: KP

    On quotas, please elaborate.

  • SuperSoupy

    Another Irish cricketing treat courtesy of YouTube:

  • Garibaldy

    Es,

    He said he didn’t want to play in the South African team because it has to have (I think it’s 2) players who are black and he didn’t want to play for a team that was weakened like that. Although in fairness to him I think he moved to England before he became an established cricketer, never mind an international.

    I’m not a huge fan of quotas generally but I think in the South African situation the case for them is undeniable. So I find Pieterson’s attitude in that case offensive, with borderline racist undertones. Reminds me of the old Spitting Image song – “I’ve Never Met a Nice South African”.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Garibaldy – my understanding was that he moved to England because his own opportunities were limited under the quota system, not because he didn’t want to play for a weak team.

  • esmereldavillalobos

    KP and his disagreement with the quota system is well known. KP wanted to play Test cricket and felt he would be disadvantaged by staying in SA. Positive discrimination aside, he probably would be in the side instead of Ashwell Prince (who is a damn fine player) but merit should be the only criterion for selection, not the colour of your skin.

    I don’t blame him for leaving.

  • Garibaldy

    TWGM,

    You may well be right. Good night all.

  • lockers

    “former Northern Irland youth international Darron Gibson now included in the ROI senior squad”

    Darron Gibson approached the n.i under 17 manager after being selected by him to play for the u17 team. He explained that he did not wish to play for his team as he had no allegience to the squad, he told him that he wanted to play for Ireland.

    This was accepted by the youth manager and the parting was ammicable.

    Gibson has represented Ireland at u17, u19,u21 & b levels.

    Get over it dr no.

  • dolmen builder

    lockers

    “he told him that he wanted to play for Ireland.”

    Surely you mean Republic of Ireland as the IFA inherited the Ireland side…if he palys for them in the forthcoming internationals and FIFA as expected later rule in June that he is not eligable for ROI, his international career is over.

    But sure then the Wolfe Tonnes could right a good old Mopery Dopery about it.

  • lockers

    The ruling regarding Gibson’s international career was made last November.

    Gibson and all the other northern born Ireland players are well within their rights to represent their country.

    FIFA would be better addressing the rights of players like Maik Taylor to represnt n.i.

    Taylor has absolutly no linkage to n.i

    No Parents, Granny’s, Granda’s, Aunts, Uncles, cousins from the country. He had never even visited the country prior to his inclusion in the squad.

    I think he qualified because he once watched an Undertones video on MTV !!

  • jim

    simply wonderful. great one lads!

  • dolmen builder

    Locers

    You are min informed. Howard Wells recently went to FIFA with the IFA lawyers, no ruling has been made and no player from Northern Ireland has represented the ROI at senior level.

    FIFA are looking into the legalities and will rule in May or June.

    As for Maik Taylor, he was born in Germany to be British parents. This entitled him to paly for any of the Home Nations or Germany. This is straight forward , is it because he didn´t have a pint of Guinness in Dublin that would have qualified him for the beggars, that you have a problem with him.

  • lockers

    “beggars”

    dolmen

    Don’t hold back – just say taig or fenian, it would be more honest

    “You are min informed”

    What does this mean?

    “FIFA are looking into the legalities and will rule in May or June”

    To quote from FIFA confirmation letter October 2007

    “The existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.”

    “FIFA are looking into the legalities and will rule in May or June”

    This is spin from the IFA, the decision was made in October 06, you should ask your association why they are stringing you along, Mr wells actually said early March which has now passed – how surprising.

    “As for Maik Taylor, he was born in Germany to be British parents.”

    To be British parents ???

    What does this mean?

  • dolmen builder

    Lockers

    Only an idiot would point out an Irishmans spelling errors after a long jubliant St. Patricks day.

    The Republic are poaching NI players on the premise that they have only one nationality, this is going to prove difficult for them to justify as some of the players in question have represented NI at various youth levels.

    The FAI have been at best sleaked in their approach of NI players. Themselves and members of the ROI govt. approached FIFA pointing to irrelevant points of the GFA concerning nationality in Northern Ireland. This happened without the knowlege of anyone from the IFA.

    FIFA are believed to be unimpressed with the political influence from ROI. The IFA have since lodged a complaint, and refuse to talk about it because it is on going and does affect individuals.

    I accept Gibson does not want to play for his country of birth (his reasons are his own), but that does not enable him to play for another one. I can guarantee you that he will not play any part in a competitive match for ROI until this matter is clarified.

    Lockers you would also do well to remember that the NI football team is representative of all six counties of NI and as a ROI fan it is laughable of you to try and question the legitmacy of the IFA selection rules.

  • frankie

    “Lockers you would also do well to remember that the NI football team is representative of all six counties of NI and as a ROI fan it is laughable of you to try and question the legitmacy of the IFA selection rules.”

    And you would do well to remember that the Ireland football team is representative of every part of this island, with players from all over the 32 counties playing at all levels in the international set up and a large proportion of the footballing public in the 6 counties being totally behind the Ireland team.

    As a huge majority of supporters on the island follow Ireland i presume the FIFA decision was based on the reality that only one team exists for the majority of the football supporting public.

    As they said – The existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

    Growing numbers are opting for Ireland rather than the ‘unionist’ team.

  • dolmen builder

    Frankie

    Wrong. A NI born player has not played for the South yet in a competitive match at senior level. BTW how many players from the Unionist persuasion have the the beggars tapped up.

    Fair play to the many players from Nationalist backgrounds who told the FAI to get on their bikes.

    Your ideas of incluisvenes obviously dont stretch to non Catholic Irish.

    The FAI sells less than 3% of it´s tickets to Northerners, compare this to the IRFU who sell 20% of their tickets to Northerners. So much for your huge Northern support.

    The “unionist” team, you really are a moron Frankie.

  • Dr Strangelove

    If Gibson has an Irish passport surely that entitles him to play for the ROI ? I think FIFA will not have a hope in hell of legislating otherwise.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    SuperSoupy

    ‘I’m not convinced about having foreign players but I certainly think changing allegiance after declaring for a country is a bit pathetic.’

    Tell that to Jeremy Bray, who has represented Australia more times than he has scored centuries for Ireland.

  • james

    realist

    Have you changed your name since you got your award

  • Doctor Who

    Dr. Strangelove

    Carrying the respective passport for a country is no longer enough to qualify someone to play for a particular country.

    The FA in Qatar where offering financial incentives and Qatar passports to various footballers, not connected to Qatar. In particualr they where aiming at young Brazillian players. Apparently Andorra tried the same with Spanish players. FIFA quickly moved to stop the practice.

    In order for these Northern players to qualify for the ROI, they will have to prove that they have only one Nationality, Irish as defined by the govt. of ROI, because they are born outside that jurisdiction the interpretation is does playing for NI prevent them from being Irish.

    To me the answer is no, the GFA stated that anyone in NI could be Irish, Northern Irish, British or all three.

    It will be difficult as well for those who have already represented Northern Ireland at youth level to turn round and say that they have only ever considered themselves Irish as defined by the govt. of ROI. The situation is further complicated by the fact that they are using the GFA to justify it.

    All this and we still have not mentioned that the FAI are invading the jurisdiction of another Football Association, namely the IFA, who are rightly miffed by the whole farce.

    Those people against the NI team do not like to see people form all religious backgrounds from all six counties representing Northern Ireland, because it contradicts their narrow definition of Irishness. They want a republican team for a republican people.

  • Aaron McDaid

    Doctor Who,
    What’s this nonsense about “a republican team for a republican people”? Is the French team ‘a republican team’? No it’s not, it’s just a French soccer team.

    There was an interesting discussion about sport and the arrangements around soccer; but then you decided that because you were running out of things to say, you’d throw in some old hat about the FAI being a bunch of child abusing papists out to disband the Orange Order and ban the English language (“narrow definition of Irishness”).

    Grow up – there’s no point repeating this same thing on many different threads – there will always be somebody to educate you. I look forward to more interesting conversations with you, if/when you realise that ‘themmuns’ aren’t quite like what you were brought up to believe.

  • Doctor Who

    Aaron McDaid

    I think you will find I was referring to the notion that Northern Ireland is a “Unionist Team”. I contradicted that by stating that our team is fully representive of all six counties from both sides of the divide. The FAI are currently adopting a policy of poaching Northern players from Nationalist backgrounds only. So where is your problem?

    you add

    “you’d throw in some old hat about the FAI being a bunch of child abusing papists out to disband the Orange Order and ban the English language”

    I do not have a clue what your on about, nothing there that relates to anything that I have posted. I NEVER ENGAGE IN SECTARIANISM ON THESE THREADS.

    “Grow up – there’s no point repeating this same thing on many different threads – there will always be somebody to educate you”

    LOL…laugh I nearly shat.

    “if/when you realise that ‘themmuns’ aren’t quite like what you were brought up to believe.”

    Why bring my parents into this, they are fine people without a sectarian bone in their body. “usuns” by the way are not alaways “themuns”. In NI terms I´m neither an “us” or a “them”.

    Now don´t let the toys fall from the pram again, theres a good boy.

  • Aaron McDaid

    Doctor Who,
    My first comment on this thread is the comment just above yours. I hadn’t said anything against the NI team, but you turn on me anyway.

    I simply corrected you on your idea that anybody who supports an All-Ireland team has a “narrow definition of Irishness”.

    I support the All-Ireland cricket team and I’d be very surprised if the team and its supporters have a “narrow definition of Irishness”! They’re probably mostly Protestant.

  • Doctor Who

    Aron McDaid

    I was asked to shove my Brit Flag (St. Patricks Cross) up my arse at a Landsdowne Road Ireland Rugby match. So yes many Nationalists view is if it´s not a tri colour it´s not Irish. This is certainly the view of the Southern contingent of the IRFU who refuse to recognise the many NI supporters and players. For instance in the forthcoming match at Ravenhill against Italy, the IRFU have deemed it an away match. That is the narrowest definition of Irishness by any sporting body on this island.

    Aaron the IRFU says you are not Irish, does that offend you, I can tell you it offends me.

    “you’d throw in some old hat about the FAI being a bunch of child abusing papists out to disband the Orange Order and ban the English language”

    You attributed the above quote to me. As it was certainly not posted by me or insinuated by me in any way, perhaps you will be man enough to apologise and then we can move on.

  • Aaron McDaid

    I have no difficulty in condemning the morons you refer to in your first paragraph, including the IRFU. And as you will have noticed, nobody would have any reason for thinking I wouldn’t.

    Your mistake over and over again is to say that every nationalist is the same, and that every republican is the same, and that nationalism and republicanism are the same. Are you able to find a single word by me anywhere on this site that considers the St. Patrick Cross to be any less Irish?

    Even before I made a single comment on this thread you said:

    “Those people against the NI team do not like to see people form all religious backgrounds from all six counties representing Northern Ireland, because it contradicts their narrow definition of Irishness. They want a republican team for a republican people.”

    Those who support an All-Ireland soccer team do not necessarily have a narrow definition of Irishness. That is patently obvious.

    You have consistently refused to try to show who has this ‘narrow definition’ and you haven’t even tried to tell us what this ‘narrow definition’ is. Why should I even think that such people exist? You throw this ‘narrow definition’ thing about on many threads without any explanation or justification, so I won’t apologize for attributing irrational fear to you. I never claimed you said those words (‘papist ..’), I’m simply showing the folly of your arguing about shadowy figures who might have a so-called ‘narrow definition of Irishness’.

  • Aaron McDaid

    On the subject of apologies, I will apologize for the words ‘child abusing papist’ and so on. I was trying to make a good and justified point about this so-called “narrow definition of Irishness”; however I went over the top with that.

    You do have an irrational unspecified fear about a conspiracy among ALL republicans and ALL nationalists to have a shared ‘narrow definition of Irishness’. But it’s not for me to speculate on exactly what form this irrational fear takes.