Shots fired in murder suspect chase

Reports are connecting the attempted arrest following a car chase in Ardoyne with the, now linked, murders in Belfast earlier in the week. With shots being fired during the attempted arrest Sinn Féin’s Gerry Kelly has criticised police actions claiming that the individual wasn’t armed, because people “would have seen that”, that there was “no exchange of fire” and that there had to be another way to apprehend the suspect.. despite the fact that the suspect was not actually apprehended. The claims will ultimately be assessed by the Police Ombudsman Office whose investigators are at the scene.From the BBC report

The party’s north Belfast assembly member [SF’s Gerry Kelly] said: “Whatever this person was or was not at, and none of us know, he was not armed, there was no exchange of fire.

“There had to be another way of apprehending this person as opposed to firing shots. We could have had another dead person in this community tonight.”

In relation to the earlier murders

Detectives want to talk to anyone who saw a silver Skoda car, registration number PKZ 3760, in north or west Belfast late on Sunday afternoon.

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  • picador

    These Wild West style antics are a slap in the face for SF’s calls to local people to co-operate with the PSNI investigation.

    It is a Godsend that we do not have a dead bystander or a CIRA ‘martyr’ on our hands.

    Firing bullets through the windows of people’s houses! Another inglorious day for the PSNI. Gerry Kelly is spot on.

  • picador

    Some highly selective quotation there.

    From the same BBC report:

    “A window of a nearby house was shattered by a bullet and children were playing in the street at the time of the incident.”

    Pull your socks up, Pete. Your spin is tiresome.

  • Doctor Who

    “Sinn Féin’s Gerry Kelly has criticised police actions claiming that the individual wasn’t armed”

    If only Gerry Kelly had thought that when he pumped a bullit into the head of a prison officer when breaking out of the Maze.

  • Pete Baker

    picador

    I expect people to follow the links provided and read the reports in full.

    As you said, presumably after reading the report

    These Wild West style antics are a slap in the face for SF’s calls to local people to co-operate with the PSNI investigation.

    But the fact is that the Ombudsman’s Office will determine the circumstances.

  • Pete Baker

    Doctor

    Can we keep to the actual topic, please.

  • Doctor Who

    Peter

    I do think it relevant to the topic. Did it not happen.

    His comments also show that there is a certain uneasiness at the top of the Sinn Fein pile, in relation to policing. We had Gildernew´s nonsense, then Gerry asking anyone in the know to pass info to poice, and now Gerry K´s trying to contradict his “bedfellow”.

    Not is all well with Sin Fein and Policing.

  • reap what you sow

    Dont know what Gerry Kelly is crying about. This is the police force Sinn Fein accepted – even with 71% of the RUC still in the ranks!!!

  • ronnie

    The keystone cops are still alive and well.

    Some eegit in a uniform Shooting at a lorry full of fuel in a built up area, another eegit shooting rounds through houses in another chase today.

    Almost as bad as the murder of the young guy in the car a few months ago.

    Not a wonder these guys wear balaclavas on duty!!

    Perhaps ITV could fix a new phone in quiz – Spot the incompetent & lunatic copper

  • heck

    Doctor

    What on earth are you on about?

    Black US politicians often criticize the police when similar incidents occur in minority areas in the United States. Do their “comments also show that there is a certain uneasiness at the top of the Sinn Fein (read black) pile, in relation to policing”

    I suppose you look at uppity fenians the same way white racists look at uppity blacks. They should know their place and not criticize the white (loyal) police.

    Wise up

  • picador

    Pete,

    ‘I expect people to follow the links provided and read the reports in full’.

    Really? So why bother quoting selectively? Is it perhaps, because you know that many people will not read the report in full?

    Doctor Who,

    How is Gerry Kelly contradicting Adams?

    As poster 7 pointed it out this kind of incident makes SF look foolish.

    Police are supposed to open fire only when they beleive that their lives ot the lives of others are at risk. I look forward to reading what the Ombudsman has to say.

  • observer

    probaly some exprovo recruit who was just itching for a chance to fire off a round or two

    How does Gerry kelly know whether or not the person was armed?

  • GPJ

    The only true way to judge a police force is to find one which recruits less criminals than it catches…

    Incompetent PSNI/RUC again showing itself to be full of the very people it should be arresting.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    heck
    Black US politicians often criticize the police when similar incidents occur in minority areas in the United States. Do their “comments also show that there is a certain uneasiness at the top of the Sinn Fein (read black) pile, in relation to policing”

    I guess it depends. Have these black politicians bombed the police a la Gerry Kelly? If so, then its a good analogy.

    ‘uppity fenians’ – now there’s a phrase you don’t hear much of these days. Except on Slugger. MOPEry writ large.

  • fair_deal

    Does anyone have historical data for the number of times shots have been fired by police officers? Maybe they are simply being reported more but I get the sense that officers seem keener to pull their gun.

  • Harris

    The World’s Gone Mad

    “Have these black politicians bombed the police a la Gerry Kelly?”

    Gerry Kelly didn’t bomb the police (RUC), he was convicted of bombing the Old Bailey.

    More importantly, it is the kelly statement that, had they (Sinn Fein) currently been in govt, would have seen Ian Paisley resign.

    Paisley seems to think that once you give your endorsement to th epolice service, then you should have nothing to say against their methods.

  • Nevin

    Reports, so far, don’t indicate any need for the police to have fired shots. Not only were lives put at risk but tension and fear in the area will have been escalated; these police officers may have made a bad situation worse. Perhaps the police squad used in this operation have not been properly trained.

  • Zorba

    I hate to draw this whole issue back to its essence, but the rumours on the street are that these deaths were all down to a few ‘tough’ men having over-indulged in alcohol last Sunday. Let’s be realistic, there was all day drinking going on in most of Belfast due to the early kick-off for the Old Firm derby. The fact is that by late evening the number of drunk people and rows were spelling a recipe of disaster. Whatever happened, if alcohol had have been taken out of the equation, these two men would have been alive in all probability. Belfast has had too many deaths due to alcohol and bravado … The cult of the hard-man, tanked-up, has seen too many bad endings…. Third-rate hard men and drink do not mix..

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Harris
    ‘Gerry Kelly didn’t bomb the police..’

    Really? What’s Scotland Yard – a scout hall?

  • mnob

    So is this Gerry (K)s way of taking politics out of the police ?

    If so its a strange way of doing it.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    “Really? What’s Scotland Yard – a scout hall?”

    Your post seemed to be referring to Kelly bombing the NI police (RUC), and how could local politicians want to associate with him.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I do not know what the PSNI’s firearm guidelines are, but firing shots at someone who is running away on foot does not seem like appropriate use of that level of force.

    Personally I would back the PSNI to the hilt if they fired shots while believing that their lives were in danger or that they were faced with someone who was armed. If that is not the case here, then the officers involved must be severely reprimanded.

  • Dessertspoon

    …and there you have it Comrade…We do not know what happened or have a full understanding of the situation in which the shots were fired. Perhaps rather than everyone (Gerry Kelly included), jumping in with both feet condeming or condoning the police in equal measure, we should get all the facts!

  • Harris

    Comrade

    “If that is not the case here, then the officers involved must be severely reprimanded.”

    You’re taking the piss here, right?

    After all, we are talking about the PSNI.

  • Dec

    …and there you have it Comrade…We do not know what happened or have a full understanding of the situation in which the shots were fired. Perhaps rather than everyone (Gerry Kelly included), jumping in with both feet condeming or condoning the police in equal measure, we should get all the facts!

    One confirmed fact is that a PSNI bullet went through the window of someone’s front door.

  • ardoyne

    word has it that the cops shot at local car thieves, one of them named Scar

  • harry

    The joyrider story seems to be the main one coming out of the area today.

    Seems the wee scumbag got a bit of a shock

  • URQUHART

    I remember SDLP South Armagh rep John Fee getting the sh1t kicked out of him for criticising a provo action in Cross. He dared to suggest that firing mortars (famously accurate) over local houses at the cop shop showed total disregard for the local population and put innocent lives at risk.

    Funny how these things shake out, no?

  • grumbleweed

    ronnie > “Almost as bad as the murder of the young guy in the car a few months ago.”

    The car was stolen. He deserved to die.

  • Ghost Light

    Harry

    “Seems the wee scumbag got a bit of a shock”

    Pot, kettle, black..

  • Pablo

    Edwin Poots in his usual quiet non-grandstanding manner had a dig at Paul Butler during his election speech…something about the need for support for policing and not shooting a policeman in the back.

    Supporting the police does not mean never needing to criticise them when they clearly get it wrong. Emptying a service revolver at the back of a fleeing man wouldn’t pass for normal policing in any part of the world and shouldn’t be accepted here. Anything to say Edwin?

  • I don’t have too much sympathy for the wee joyriding shitehawk either, in fact I think daytime joyriders are about the lowest form of human life… but if you have the rule of law it has to apply equally to people you hate as to you yourself.

    My instinct is that the cops were using excessive force especially given it was a densely populated area but we have a Police Ombusman who has access to human and other resources that Slugger posters and Gerry Kelly do not. Let’s let her do her job.

  • graham

    It now seems that the car was not stolen but was one of these ‘runarounds'(no tax or insurance)

    Was speaking to someone from Ardoyne this evening, seems the guy was not a joyrider but panicked when he saw the police, got out and ran.

    No tax or insurance is a crime but hardly worth murdering him for the offence.

    Another b*lls up by the PSNI.