Adams interview: Most Democratic Ever

According to The Irish News, Mr Adams is to take part today in two discussions, at the O’Neill Arms in Toomebridge, Co Antrim, and then at the community centre in Galbally, Co Tyrone, and is also due to address the Seamus Harvey commemoration event in south Armagh, at Flynn’s Cross, Coolderry in Crossmaglen at 2.30pm today. He will also will address a public meeting at Derry’s Millennium Forum next Thursday. (A UTV report is also available.)Sinn Fein is also preparing to mobilise voters watching the March 7th, election day Celtic v AC Milan Champions League match, and “blitz bars across the north with half-time announcements aimed at getting voters to the polls.” .

SF policing position ‘will not lead to serious split’
Politics
By William Graham

Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams has indicated he does not think there will be a serious split in his party over policing but the challenge ahead should not be underestimated.
Speaking as meetings of republicans take place across the north ahead of an ard fheis on signing up to policing structures, Mr Adams was asked by The Irish News about the dangers of a split.
“I think not,’’ he said. “Contrary to what our detractors from outside Sinn Fein say, this is the most democratic phase of republican politics that I have seen in my lifetime.’’
The West Belfast MP said during internal meetings the party had argued ferociously about the right things to do, but it was united in its pursuit of “a better Ireland, a national republic, in which citizens are treated on the basis of equality”.
He said he believed the vast majority of people who have been involved in republican activity “are broadly speaking with this strategy.’’
“Do we all agree on every step that is taken? No we don’t but we are mature enough to know that we will have our argument and stay united afterwards,’’ he said.
Mr Adams was asked when, if the policing motion is carried, he believed police officers would be able to live in republican areas and indeed republicans join the force.
He said the party’s ard chomhairle believes a threshold has been reached on accountability mechanisms for the PSNI “which allows us to have a sustainable involvement in a new policing dispensation’’.
“Our job is to keep the police accountable, whether in the Garda Siochana or the PSNI.
“We also have a job to defend our communities from rapists, from criminals, from death-riders, from those who prey upon the most vulnerable sections, from those despicable elements who go in and terrorise old people in their own homes.
“If policing is to be genuinely a service of civic policing, then of course people who join that service, as other public servants, need to feel free to live wherever they want.
“It may take a number of political generations for the PSNI to win the confidence of those who have been on the frontline of the tactics employed by the old RUC.
“But that’s for the PSNI to do – to energetically win the confidence.
“They do that by being professional, by being non-partisan, by upholding people’s rights as opposed to upholding the state.
“People have to be persuaded that regardless of our political allegiances and political objectives, we can have some confidence in the agencies of the state, that they can be kept accountable.’’
Mr Adams said he had been meeting a lot of republicans in recent times, including people who are not activists but whose loved ones had been killed by the RUC.
“Those people are saying to me: We know what you are trying to do and good luck to you, but we could not support the police. I have to say fair enough.
“There is a huge challenge for the PSNI.”
Asked about the weeks ahead, Mr Adams said the ard fheis was being asked to agree with the leadership “that we are in a position now to support the PSNI and it will set out the terms of reference for us doing that’’.
“It will also mandate the ard chomhairle of the party to implement the motion.
“My focus has not been on the implementation of the motion but on getting the support in the first instance of our own organisation and our own support base for this initiative, and secondly to win at least some understanding from those opposed to us.’’
Sinn Fein would not take up positions on the Policing Board until a power-sharing executive is restored.
Mr Adams said: “We are doing what we are doing because we think it is in the common good.
“We made a very genuine and sincere effort to engage with the DUP – despite the refusal of the DUP leader to meet with us in a negotiating configuration.
“We made the effort. It is over to the DUP. The issue is does Ian Paisley go to the unionist section of our people and say we are not up for power sharing?
“Does he go to them and say we are now going to have to go to plan B, the two governments will run the place, Dublin will have a greater involvement, and the assembly will not deal with issues?
“I say that in a non-belligerent way. It is a challenge to the British government and the Irish government.’’
The party leader said he thought Mr Paisley had spoken in a genuine way at St Andrews about young people having a better future.
“I look to him [Mr Paisley] to deliver on that,’’ he said, adding that there was potential for achieving an “entirely new politics, and a realignment of politics across this island’’.

  • Rubicon

    RN, a key part of your report is, “Sinn Fein would not take up positions on the Policing Board until a power-sharing executive is restored.”. It is not reported as a quote from Adams since it is not given in quotes. What is the status of this statement?

    If this is Adam’s position then it sounds like he’s asking the DUP to jump first. I can’t see that happening. March 26th looks as if it’s getting further away.

  • Jeremy

    Is Sinn Fein not taking a unilateral step by holding the Ard Fheis. Is that not effectively a solo jump. The DUP now have their chance to jump across to the next stage of the process. That will then be reciprocated by SF joining the boards. Again the DUP will need to move forward at that stage by working the executive.

  • Rusty Nail

    Rubicon: That is part of William Graham’s narrative of the interview. The quotes from Adams following that statement elaborate.

  • poneill

    I don’t give a toss how democratic Mr Adams interview was I DON’T TRUST HIM or his collogues. Mr Adams has a way with words and seldom do these words mean what they are percieved to mean.

  • mickhall

    Gerry Adams said,
    “We also have a job to defend our communities from rapists, from criminals, from death-riders, from those who prey upon the most vulnerable sections, from those despicable elements who go in and terrorise old people in their own homes.”

    “People have to be persuaded that regardless of our political allegiances and political objectives, we can have some confidence in the agencies of the state, that they can be kept accountable.’’

    Mr Adams means the UK state here, I doubt Paisley can believe what Blair has managed to get Adams to spout. Adams can say what he likes, but no Irish republican would attempt to persuade people to have confidence in the northern State apparatus. For to do so goes against the whole purpose of Irish Republicanism.

    To hold those who govern that State-let accountable and to highlight the fact when they break their own laws yes. But persuade the nationalist community that they can have enough confidence in that state to trust their future to it. Come on it negates the who raison detre of Irish republicanism.

    Adams whole statement is a tip of his cap at the people of property. By the way what is this obsession shinners seem to have with rapists these days, is West Belfast awash with them? It is just typical NL scare-mongering, rapists are every where, you must support the PSNI to protect your wife’s and daughters, please, what crap.

    I am surprised Mr Adams has not gone the whole hog and started trying to terrify old ladies with talk about fanatical muslim suicide bombers being on the patch, or is he saving that one for when he gets around to asking people to support MI5? Because that is the logical outcome of his position.

  • joeCanuck

    Get a grip mickhall.

    I think we need an equivalent Godwin’s law for muslim suicide bombers/terrorists.

  • Henry94

    mickhall

    He is saying that it is for the state and it agencies and the PSNI in particular to persuade people of this.

    “But that’s for the PSNI to do – to energetically win the confidence.
    “They do that by being professional, by being non-partisan, by upholding people’s rights as opposed to upholding the state.
    “People have to be persuaded that regardless of our political allegiances and political objectives, we can have some confidence in the agencies of the state, that they can be kept accountable.’’

    By taking the quote out of context you may have got the impression that it is Sinn Fein has to persuade people. No indeed. If the Ard Fheis passes the motion then the confidence of nationalists is there to be won but the PSNI will have to prove themselves.

    “Those people are saying to me: We know what you are trying to do and good luck to you, but we could not support the police. I have to say fair enough.
    “There is a huge challenge for the PSNI.”

  • heck

    “He said the party’s ard chomhairle believes a threshold has been reached on accountability mechanisms for the PSNI “which allows us to have a sustainable involvement in a new policing dispensation’’”

    I guess the party’s ard chomhairle has a very liberal definition of the word accountability or Adams is talking bullshit. Accountability has not been achieved until the issue of collusion is addressed. Even our resident spook, Ingram, points out that the police still have the information in their special branch files and are refusing to release it. The chief constable is not accountable to anyone in Norn Iron. Ingram’s buddies can still get away with murder. The issue of collusion is central to the issue of police accountability and without a resolution of the first you can’t have the second. The very concept of the “rule of law” is to constrain the state and we don’t have that in Norn Iron.

    Every time I point this out some unionist will claim that SF would be embarrassed if details on collusion were released. I am glad that there is such concern in unionist circles for the feelings of the shinners but, to quote Col. Nathan Jessop/Jack Nicholson in the movie A few Good Men, “I WANT THE TRUTH, I CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH”.

    Mickhall is right about another part of Adams’ piece. Adam’s claims “We also have a job to defend our communities from rapists, from criminals, from death-riders, from those who prey upon the most vulnerable sections, from those despicable elements who go in and terrorise old people in their own homes” I am not aware of a lot of “rapists”, “criminals”, “death-riders” or “despicable elements who go in and terrorise old people in their own homes” running wild in South Armagh. In fact I feel safer going to bars and walking the streets of that part of Norn Iron that I do in parts of London, Glasgow or other cities where the queen’s constabulary patrol the streets. The only problem unionists have with crime in south armagh is that of a few enterprising citizens buying their diesel in the south and reducing the money going to Honest Tony’s war machine, and god bless them for that. Every penny that Britain can’t send to Iraq is a blow against this war criminal.

    I’m beginning to think Gerry has lost it in his old age.

  • mickhall

    Henry,

    I understand perfectly what Gerry Adams means, “trust me suckers and through me trust the police”. If he was coming at this problem in the manner you propose, why is he putting the cart before the horse, he would be saying when the PSNI have proved their worth to the nationalist community, SF will go into the policing committees etc. But he is not, he is saying SF will do this if the DUP enter into an arrangement etc. Nothing to do with the police.

    In the meantime he is demanding of SF members at the Ard Fheis that they support the writ of the PSNI and UK justice system, whilst as he admits the PSNI still has to earn the nationalist peoples trust, which in reality amounts to giving the PSNI a blank cheque.

    Tell me can you name any country in the world in which the first duty of the police is not to uphold the State? All else that flows from their work may be useful to some, but it is incidental, as their first duty is to protect the state. Of course the police would claim that by protecting the State they are protecting its people, but that is another argument.

    Adams knows this otherwise he would not try and hide his dirty deed behind infantile terminology such as ‘civic police’.

    Why cannot he just come out and say he is no longer a republican but has morphed into a nationalist, just like the SDLP and the majority of sticks. We could then stop all this bickering and move on. M O’M admitted as much on the Hearts and Minds program.

  • Paul

    Not unlike the time Sinn Fein denied that anyone had left the movement at the time of the last split in 1997.

    It would be most interesting if one could imvestigate SF membership and see how many “new” members there will be around the time of the Special Ard Fheis vote.

    If they can manipulate British and Irish elections with their dirty tricks and fake votes then surely they can manipulate their own elections.

  • Sean

    The big question here is “do you trust adams?”.

    I think the answer must be a resounding No. Its about time that the PSF membership started to think for themselves. They have been led down the garden path.

  • lib2016

    “The big question here is ‘do you trust Adams?'”

    We can’t know every step of the negotiations and most of us wouldn’t want to if we could – in fact that’s why we call it ‘representative politics’.

    At the moment I’ll be voting for Sinn Fein but when/if the dissidents ever come up with some sort of strategy I’ll certainly be prepared to listen.

    In the meantime I’ll continue to support the way the present generation of republicans and their leadership are forging steadily forward.

    It has been too slow for my taste but that’s what real life is like. Slow, painstaking and boring until suddenly success arrives.

  • susan

    Mick Hall, I would agree with you that I would have less fear of rapists harming me or my daughters in South Armagh than I would anywhere else on the planet.

    But you almost seem to be implying that only chauvinistic middle class property owners worry about rapists preying on their wives and daughters — an implication that would be the most shameful and shameless rubbish, needless to say.

    Poor and working class women are most apt to be victims of violence, just as members of the poor and working class are most apt to be victims of all crime, and most likely to be accused of crime too.

    Mick Hall, what specific course of action do you recommend for victims of rape and other violent assault? Dial “1916” and try to carry on comforted in the knowledge that true republicans, the rightful heirs of 1916, will soon be using their pain to win valuable propoganda points on Slugger O’Toole threads?

  • BeardyBoy

    What will SF advise when the police batter nationalists to allow orange marchers to trample over their rights ?

    When this happens SF will have a lot of explaining to do.

  • lib2016

    BeardyBoy,

    The republican struggle is for all the community. If someone wants to block the road for an Orange parade or a Hibernian one, or even a for road race then they should be facilitated as far as possible, though aany or all of them might cause me personal inconvenience.

    All communities have rights and we all have to find ways to reconcile those rights. Please remember that the Orange Order is in decline precisely because they abused their rights and give some respect to the goodsense of ordinary decent people, whichever community they come from.

  • BeardyBoy

    I will hold that the rights of the residents have priority – if you wish to inconvenience them then they have the right to decide if they want to be inconvenienced – and everyone has to respect that.

  • Jesus Christ

    MIck Hall: Comparing Gerry Adams to the Sticks is totally uncalled for and way out of line and you should apologise for it. The Sticks had some sense of decency. They changed the name of their party and they gave up most of the fireworks after Ranger Best got it. Adams, in contrast, gave us 30 years of hell with Ian Paisley. And all so we could have the RUC and Mary Lou tell us what to do.

  • lib2016

    BeardyBoy,

    I agree with your point that people have the right to peace and quiet especially in their own homes, if that’s what they want.

    There may even be times when the situation is not black and white. The surburban villages around Belfast are gradually being taken over by nationalist families with teenage children who are very ready to be provoked (been there, done that!).

    The older unionist population surrounding those villages have been used to attending their local Orange Halls and in my opinion they should be facilitated as far as possible.

    Where they abuse that privilege they destroy their own credibility – witness the sight of track suited UDA men lurching up the Ardoyne like something out of a 19th Century Punch cartoon about those awful Irish! 😉

    Where so many dissidents seem to me to be going wrong is that they believe unionist propaganda and conspire with them to deny the facts about the way this society is changing.

    Traditional unionism is reduced to one lone oddball representative at Westminster and Paisleyism is an even more odd throwback to the 16th Century.

    Nationalists have to change also and prepare the ground for generosity in victory rather than be tied to the self-fulfilling defeatism of the past.

    The Brits were always going to declare ‘Victory’ and piss off home here as they have done everywhere else. Let them go in peace now that they are at long last preparing to do so.

  • brian

    Excellent debate in Toome today. There were a number of the other republican groups representatives in Arby’s hotel but they didn’t come into the SF debate.

    Adams said at the start that if anyone wanted to put forward an alternative strategy he would give them the mike and hear it, there was none forthcoming.

    Republicans are at their strongest, the leadership is totally united behind the strategy and they will only get stronger. Meanwhile the DUP are clearly split into 2 or 3 camps and this will only worsen the closer they get to powersharing. Republicans just need to hold their nerve.

  • Sean

    lib2016
    “We can’t know every step of the negotiations and most of us wouldn’t want to if we could – in fact that’s why we call it ‘representative politics’.”

    I disagree with you on this. PSF members need to have “informed opinion”. The other approach, to just let the politicians get on with it, is intellectually lazy. This is the kind of attitude which has allowed politicians to rip us off, both north & south. These matters are to serious to be left solely to the leadership of PSF.

    The PSF leadership need an informed membership to keep them honest. Sadly any kind of informed membership input has been missing for years, replaced instead by the cult of leader worship

  • gerry

    The honourable MP for west belfast Mr Adams is in my area now, at a community hall, his entourage is huge. Why does adams feel he needs that level of security in his own areas? There are loads of minders inside the hall and outside, and cars sitting about with suspicious looking dudes inside watching what is going on all around the place.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    All Posters

    As I type:-

    Sinn Fein have 450 supporters in Arbys and all parties who oppose the leadership have been excluded from this public meeting – The cameras have been excluded and even with all this there are raised voices!

    The provo’s have not included any grassroots people or all the dead volunteers families!

    The meeting is a sham and not a proper representation of feelings on the ground!

    This is Sell out behind closed doors!

  • Mary

    “Adams said at the start that if anyone wanted to put forward an alternative strategy he would give them the mike and hear it, ”

    Typical Adams big bluff. Always the big publicity angle. Anybody stupid enough to get up and speak would have quickly been put in their place. Not to mention the hassle they would get after the meeting. The audience knew this. I’m sure you knew it also, which makes me wonder as to the purpose of your posting.

  • Mary

    Rory (South Derry)

    Have PSF restricted entry to the “public” meeting?

    Do people at the meeting feel intimidated by leadership heavies?

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Mary

    The following has happened:-

    (1). Threats have been made by Provo stormtroopers
    over the last 24 hours to at least 8
    prominent anti-policing republicans locally!

    (2). The people who have been permitted to enter
    Arbys are only PSF activists!

    (3). Families of dead volunteers are missing as
    they have been told not to come!

    (4). Belfast Heavies are on the scene together
    with local thugs ensuring that no dissenting
    voices can enter to state their case!

    (5). People are not shocked that this has happened

    Gerry Adams and the Top table (Brabara & Gerry K)
    together with Francie Molloy want to be ashamed1

    Adams is out making state of the nation addresses earlier today but is a traitor to the Republican family as he is not letting democracy in the movement take place!

  • Rory (South Derry)

    The Events at Arbys this afternoon show that Adams is definitely not interested in hearing any alternative afternoon!

    The comments that he made about meeting with the RIRA, CIRA etc are bollix – The provo thugs policing the events at Arbys and the later meeting in Galbally have threated people and intimidated people from putting there point forward!

    The Belfast entourage with Adams are suspicious looking characters and it would not surprise anyone if there was an MI5 or special branch presence protecting Adams and co!

  • Paul

    It seems that those there to police this event were working off some kind of list, probably those who were invited. Anyone not on list or known was checked out with locals and if you werent known to be a supporter then entry was refused. This was a complete sham, far from a public meeting.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Paul

    The list was not evident when we arrived!

    The Provos told us (all 12 in total) to F**k off as we were not welcome as this was a Sinn Fein event!

    When the Belfast Bearded Man stood up and asked for an alternative view he new that no one would be present to challenge him.

    In history even Michael Collins gave his knockers a hearing when they opposed partition but St Gerry condones threats made to real republicans who only wish to air their views!

    Sinn fein are now enemies of the republic and should be treated in such a manner!

  • mickhall

    Susane,

    If you feel I implied that working class women do not face the threat of domestic violence etc I apologies, as I certainly do not believe it is so. I will admit when the issue of opening battered wife’s homes and the rape crisis centers first arose way back, I was as ignorant and apathetic about this problem as the next working class man. But I was fortunate to have worked with some fine women back then, who unlighted me on this issue and since then I have tried to live up to the standards these women set.

    As to what is the way forward on policing, here I agree with Gerry McGeough, these negotiations have been going on for approx a decade on and off, yet when they are brought back to the street people are given two weeks to make up their minds as to how they stand. That is surly not good enough and one cannot help but wonder if all these time frames have not been set to bounce people into supporting the police.

    SF should have put out a paper with the details of the negotiations on policing etc, they should have then put their argument for supporting it, the dissidents and others could have put out a paper as to why they feel it is not on/whatever.

    Then a respected community organization or group , maybe the Trade Unions, Irish Rights Watch, whoever, should have called a serious of public meetings both local and regional, open to all within the community. Many people, some with good reason simply do not have enough faith in SF to allow then to organize these meetings. This might be unfair but we are already getting reports of individuals being excluded from the SF meetings due to their politics.

    Adams is right about one thing policing is an issue for the whole community so the whole community should participate if they so wish.

    There is no good reason for the two week period as people for good or bad have gone by without recognizing the PSNI and RUC for decades so what is a few more weeks, if that is what people decide to do.

  • dublinsfsupporter

    Today Gerry Adams was making the argument that policing will move republicans into a new area of struggle. That we can’t leave policing to the unionists or to the securocrats and that policing has been very bad its the job of Sinn Féin “to serve our communities, to make sure our communities have depoliticised and non-partisan policing”.

    Now whatever you think of that its important to face up to this issue that has been out there for some time and which is best seen in the context of a GFA based on partnership and equality.

    He went on to state the importance that police services require to be kept under democratic accountability and surely that is a valid point for all republicans.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Dublin SF

    So where was your parties democracy this afternoon at the entrance to Arby’s?

    Also is visiting people make sure they do not attend Arbys part of your democratic accountability process?

  • Chris Donnelly

    Rory

    All your rambling appears to simply confirm what most of us suspected: the tidal wave of support for the ‘dissident’ line suggested has been exposed as a myth.

    I note you also omit to mention the presence of Sean McGlinchey on the platform in Toome.

    Not fit in with the picture you’re attempting to sketch?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    The micro groups knew this debate was on and yet again failed to give us their alternative; ducking, diving and squirming.

    Their gameplan is clear enough, have one or two meetings with a single transferable audience then bark and brey at the moon for an hour without even addressing themselves with a coherent and winnable strategy.
    In studio debates be trite and argumentative and when pressed on an alternative press on and ignore the question.

    Although there are a number of set piece meetings dozens of smaller meetings are taking place in virtually every area. The ordinary people are getting the message while the micros back slap and preach to the converted.

  • gerry

    I’m glad the people in that area came on quickly and informed us what happened. Nothing wrong with someone telling the truth about what they saw.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Chris

    Sean McGlinchey is the only member of the McGlinchey family inside that hotel!

    Paul, Gerry, Young Declan & Dominic are not there!

    Sean McGlinchey is now the only member of the family currently associated with the Provo leadership!

    Sean is a local provie enforcer and a personal friend and former cellmate of Gerry Kellys!

    No one with any local knowledge of South Derry is surprised at Sean so I guess this cancels out you last comments!

    No present were 26 former prisoners, the hughes or McElwee families, Patsy Grogan, Geraldine Dougan, Oliver Hughes, Liam Avril, any of the Lynch family – 21 people from Bellaghy (all former PSF suppoerters).

    Attempts were made by many to attend this fiasco but they were either refused entry or threatened in advance!

    The picture I am telling you is clear mo chara the provos orchestrated a nice wee setting for the top table!

    Chris your attempt to get the Provo PR machine underway is not convincing me or anyone else!

  • susan

    Thank you for your considered and considerate response, Mick Hall. I have no quarrel with those who call for more transparency, and you are right there could and should have been independent discussion and debate within the community before the deadline was set, not after. The deadline is real, but the decision to leave what should have been inevitable community discussions til now was a political tactic, not the result of a swift and sudden change of heart or principle.

    The real problem is that for some there is little point to further discussion and debate within the community, because for them no compromise or reconciliation is possible. For them, any move to participate in policing is to accept the institution of British rule in Ireland.

    Where does this stance leave the most vulnerable members of society in 2007? Women, children, the elderly, victims of sexual assaults, victims of domestic violence, victims of assault, arson and intimidation? These victims are on no timetable, and the quality of their recovery and/or even survival is often dependent on the quality of first responders (usually police) to their emergencies.

    What is owed to the most vulnerable, to current and future victims of crime?

  • Ulick

    Rory, these meetings are being organised by Sinn Fein to outline and explain the SF position on policing and justice to their grassroots supporters and activists. It’s obvious from your posts here the past few weeks that you are neither so why in the name God do you expect to be welcomed into it? You have your view and you are entitled to it but if you want to convince others of the logic of your argument you would be better off organising your own meeting instead of embarrassing yourself on public forums with your childish tantrums.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Ulick

    These meetings were termed by the Provo leaders as “Public Meetings”. In the real world public means that opponents of an issue are allowed to air their views in a public areana!

    Throwing out the press from A PUBLIC MEETING is childish and not so public don’t ya think?

    I am not throwing any tantrums but purely informing the republican and nationalist electorate of the hypocracy & broy harrier tactics employed by the provos!

    Gerry Adams and the provo leadership clearly do not want debate on any issue with any party outside of their own nodding dogs!

    Over the coming week the position of other republican parties will be voiced in the Elk in Toomebridge if anyone is interested – The provos will probably try to threaten people from attending but people will not be knocked or waver in their determination to expose the tramps that used Arbys to express their position publically in SECRET THIS AFTERNOON!

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Rory,

    just an observation, you seem to have a bit of an anger management problem.

    Also, just because you repeat posts time after time doesn’t make it any more robust.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Pat

    Anger may be your view – frustration is the fact!

  • Ulick

    Rory,

    I have no intention of getting into an argument over your ridiculous hyperbole, so I’ll keep my response brief. I am a republican, though I am not a member of SF and am not associated with their party. I have not yet made up my mind on the policing issue and have put some of the concerns to SF activists. In response I have been invited to attend one of the public meetings. I know of other republicans who are not supportive of the SF motion who have also been invited to the meetings. So your assertion that only nodding dogs are attending these meeting is both wrong and insulting.

    I assume SF are targeting their traditional base in order to put their position to them. I would not expect them to invite people who would stoop so low as to label fellow republicans as “traitors” any more than I would expect them to invite DUP members. I’m sure space is at premium so good sense would dictate they are selective on the door policy.

    Regards
    Ulick

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Ulick

    Let me address your points one by one in adignified manner in case i get accused of throwing tantrums or having anger management issues:-

    (1). I only base my nodding dogs comment on the
    people who were allowed to attend at Arbys &
    that is what they were!

    (2). The reason the provos did not let any
    dissenting voice into the room was to stop
    embarassing issues such as provo harassment,
    threats and bullying being highlighted!

    (3). They put the camera’s out as they feared
    that public (their version of it) could be
    very embarassing if someone stood up to them

    (4). Arby’s for those who know is well able to
    cater for at least 750 people of which 400-
    450 spaces were filled.

    (5). The word traitors is a lot less strong than
    some of the allegations that Martin
    McGuinness posed to the McGlinchey family in
    the middle of the road outside their house in
    Bellaghy!

    The things that the provos have stooped to
    locally in the past 3 months doesn’t bear
    talking about!

    Today was clear- They saw dissent coming head on and side-stepped it in advance!

    Now I am being dignified and certainly am clear with no anger issues just the truth and remember I and other live in the middle of it down here in South Derry!

  • Ulick

    Rory,
    in response to your post:

    1. You were not at the meeting today at Arbys nor did you witness the debate, so you cannot say for certain those present were “nodding dogs”.

    2. You were not at the meeting so you cannot say for certain there were no dissenting voices. Besides the meeting was to discuss policing not “harassment, threats and bullying”, so any good chairperson would rule such comments out of order.

    3. You were not party to the decision to refuse admission to the press so you cannot say for certain what the reason was. Another more likely reason is that many of those attending did not what their faces on the telly. SF has supporters in all areas of NI society and many would be sensitive as to how colleagues might view their attendance at political meetings. I would place myself in that camp, hence my use of a pseudonym.

    4. You weren’t there so I don’t know how you can say that. I seen pictures on the television and it looked pretty full to me.

    5. By labelling a fellow republican as a traitor because he has a different opinion to yours, you are in effect felon setting, a nasty, dangerous tactic that has so often been used by our enemies to justify murder. It is a low to which no republican should stoop and if McGuinness used such terms about someone over a difference of opinion, then I’d be the first to condemn him. Though the fact that a member of the McGlinchey family was at the meeting today would indicate there was more to the matter that you portray.

    The republican movement is bigger than one area and personal enmities or grievances should not be allowed to delay progress for the movement as a whole.

  • Sinn fein are now enemies of the republic and should be treated in such a manner!

    Really?

    Would you care to elaborate on this Rory?

    I am a Sinn Fein member, how am I and others like me traitor’s to the Republic? What should our punishment be?

  • gerry

    Ulick do you live where Rory lives? Where you there this after noon, if not then Rory is trying to inform the rest of us what happened, and I for one would like to know, infact i am quite eager to know.

    Rory thank you for your honest assessment of events this afternoon.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    The alleged actions of limiting the audience at Toome (Rory) don’t seem to have happened in Galbally where Mc Geough was part of the audience and asked questions from the floor.

    One would have thought that if there was a policy of exclusion then it would have been consistent across all the meetings, given that the so called heavies who accompanied Adams would have travelled on to Galbally from Toome

    I have to say that the allegatons of Rory have to be treated with a lot of scepticism.

  • Ulick

    Gerry, my comments were in response to what Rory alleged was going on inside the meeting. He has already told us numerous times he wasn’t allowed in, so I don’t see how he could know what was going on inside. Therefore I think my comments are fair.

  • Rory

    Gerry

    I was standing in Arbys Car Park alongside Paul McGlinchey and other! I am truthfully telling you & others what happened!

    The fact that Pat McLarnon & the ULICK Provo did not witness the Provo roadshow is clear!

    Sinn Fein are supposed to represent “FREEDOM JUSTICE & PEACE

    Where was the FREEDOM in Toomebridge tonight when bomberjacket clad louts patrolled event?

    Where was the JUSTICE in threatening people to make them stay away – and what about the comments made by the party faithful towards Paul McGlinchey in the Car Park?

    Where has peace ever been achieve in 850 years by accepting the participation in the british administration of Ireland?

    callin you Traitors – If you accept the re-establishment of the right of the british to continue to administrate the 6 counties you are!

    What else can you call yourselves?

  • If you accept the re-establishment of the right of the british to continue to administrate the 6 counties you are!

    That’s a load of crap and you know it!

    You said that

    Sinn fein are now enemies of the republic and should be treated in such a manner!

    How exactly would you suggest we are treated?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Rory,

    your part in the give Paul Mc Glinchey a mention campaign is acknowledged, but it neither confirms or negates your allegations, just the fact that you have a rather obvious bias.

  • Ulick

    The fact that Pat McLarnon & the ULICK Provo did not witness the Provo roadshow is clear!

    Rory, I’ve already told you I’m not a SF member and am not associated with the party. I’ve also told you I’m sceptical about the SF motion, so why you do want to label me as a Provo? One would have thought, I’m the type of person you want to win over. Your infantile slagging of those that question or disagree with your approach merely highlights the inadequacies of your argument.

  • Aontroim

    Rory (South Derry) is coming across as doing the job of the enemy. I am increasingly concerned as to what his intentions are on this thread. Let me remind you Rory – the enemy has been and always will be the Brits. Not fellow Republicans.

    I am not a local in the Toome area and would not be known within the SF activist base. I had no trouble at anytime entering the PUBLIC debate on policing today.

    If you are so scathing of Sinn Féin’s political strategy – please state in detail your alternative?

    Anyone who signed up to the GFA knew the roadmap ahead. Those within Republican circles who are displaying a clear inability to deal with the issue of policing and justice, are blatantly displaying a weakness. It is this weakness and inability to deal with the issues that our enemies within the DUP thrive on. They believe we are not capable. Let’s stand together and dispel these notions. Let’s stand together, united and stronger in breaking ‘their’ police force, in the same way that orangeism and unionism has been broken beyond repair.

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Aontroim

    I can not stand by while republicans in Bellaghy & indeed throughout South derry who have supported the cause as fiercely as they have are pushed around by the enforcers for the leadership1

    We opponents of the PSNI Issue do not want to go to war with you people.

    We want an open debate within the greater republican family but the Belfast mob and Marty Mc don’t want to talk!

    What we witnessed at the home of the McGlincheys before Christmas was shockin as their uncle Sean stood back and watched martin McGuinness personally threaten the sons of Dominic McGlinchey. How do you propose we trust anything PSF say?

    I am all for unity but surely you could not condone a republican being publically threated by his supposed own or could you?

    I also do not want to be patronised with you comment that this is playing into the hands of the DUP – This is between republicans and if we can not debate things to a conclusion you boys go and get into goverment with them with your new policeforce!

  • We opponents of the PSNI Issue do not want to go to war with you people

    So much for Comradeship, eh Rory?

    I think you should calm down and read over some of your posts again tonight. I am not being patronising either, it’s never a good idea to blog when you are angry.

    I too have concerns about the policing issue but Republican division will only serve the enemies of Republicanism.

    We are only as strong as we are united and only as weak as we are divided.

  • Rory

    Rory from South Derry is annoyed that Sinn Fein hold a series of public meetings to explain their strategy on policing and to get feedback from their constituency but that they do not allow their meetings to be dominated by disgruntled individuals intent on disrupting the very purpose of the meetings.

    “Go buy your own bag ‘o’ chips!”, is the response that most readily springs to one’s lips. Surely you fellows can organise your own public meetings or is it that with the dominance of mobile phones your choice of suitable venues has been severely curtailed?

  • Comrade Stalin

    I do appreciate the sensible republicans on here arguing in favour of supporting the police. The support for the police is in the context of a devolved government and as such the arguments being made about “British state apparatus” are less compelling.

    However, I find it interesting the way both SF and the DUP are emphasizing the validity of their position on the basis of the suggestion that the opposite party is split, divided and in big trouble.

    So let me get this straight. These people are arguing that the basis for a stable devolved government is to work with another party which is at war with itself internally ?

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Rory

    The meeting this evening was 100% Staged managed -Spike Murray played a blinder!

    Now following on with a reply to your wee comments mo chara:-

    The last meeting organised by some Concerned republicans (The McGlincheys) invited the wider republican Family to debate the issue so that things did not get blown out of all proportion!

    The meeting was widely public knownledge with the express intent of engaging the public in the Area.

    Heres what happened:-

    3 days prior it PSF told there members not to
    attend and got heavy with the likes of Lawrence ONeill & Oliver Hughes which resulted in their resignation.

    Martin McGuiness turned up in Bellaghy Mob handed threatening to sort out the McGlincheys for as he termed it “Stepping out of Line” and it turned into to a slanging match in the middle of the Street.

    Later in this event accusations were made by local PSF members to the PSNI that Declan McGlinchey was ready to detonate a bomb – all lies.

    The Belfast Mob visited houses in Maghera & Dungiven reading the riot act.

    The meeting caused so much controvesy it had to be re-arranged from Arbys to the Elk at a later date!

    Again the provos tryed to terrorise people from attending

    Now speaking calmly Chris & Rory were do you see democracy in any of the above events.

    Can you now see why PSF in South Derry have wound people up?

    Ps:- share the bag Rory

  • Aontroim

    Rory (South Derry)

    Are you saying you are disgruntled over a recent event prior to Christmas? You have little spine and appear to be an easy pushover in this difficult period of struggle.

    You still have not convinced me what is your alternative at this time? I am aware that there were people who attended the ‘dissident’ meetings recently in belfast and south derry, and felt more confused going out of the meetings than when they went in. If you seriously give me an alternative, I will consider it.

    Should we just wait idly by for the next 100 years until we have a ‘Nationalist/Republican’ 51% population in the Six and wake up to our utopia Republic. Ádh mór to those like you. That’s the easy way out. Where and what have RSF been up to this past 26 years? what do the ‘Concerned Republicans’ have to fear in the future. Can it be any worse than the unionist militia we have had as our ‘police service’ for the past 40 years.

    I genuinely am trying not to be patronising, but if really frustrates me that ‘the hurlers on the ditch’ (to use the anology in today’s meeting) are only happy to shout negative and lambasting shite at every crucial juncture in this process. remember too that everytime Republicans have made a huge decision, the Republican Movement has grown. With growth there is political power, with political power Republicans have more clout to advance our struggle. Stay united and we could possibly be the largest Party in the Six Counties, if the DUP fragment. I plead with you to look outside the box. Do you want your children to go to jail and let’s repeat history?

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Aontroim

    We here in South Derry are not afraid and as for spine myself and other republicans here stepped in to take guns out of hands of people when the issue happened to stop someone getting killed!

    No one wants to go back to the days of War but at the sametime peacetime must have viable ways forward. The state that Adams and co have taken the Provisional Republican movement to is bewildering. The rules of engagement with the brits have always been disengagement from the 6 counties but the policing issues means a state of re-engagement is where we are being taken.

    Sinn fein have got people hung up on
    how much power they can get in the North & South.

    This may make them the biggest party in the north but still it does not address how we get rid of the brits and live in peace with our protestant neighbours in a unified 32 county nation.

    Now with the Unionists you know what you are getting but with PSF we haven’t a clue where it it is they are going within the context of Irish unification.

    The Brits have to go – No question and no other acceptable solution & this must be sooner rather than later!

    I would really be happy if the provos sat down with people such as ourselves here and sorted our differences but they seem to be on the “road to God knows where”?

    Marginalising a section of their own community is all they want to do while they drive around with their new found wealth!

    I know i get wound up along with others but we have the right to express our opinion and mine quite simple is Brits out with no apologies or excuses and the current PSF strategy as i see it is not gettin us there regardless of how you dress it up or spin it!

  • gerry

    Aontroim, they say the hurler in the ditch is the best hurler of all.

  • whoswhoinsluggerland

    Ingram! Rory (South Derry).
    Look closely. Pay attention.

  • Henry94

    rory

    You say you voted for the agreement like most people. Brits out then requires a majority in the north to vote for a united Ireland.

    Your proposals for winning such a majority would be most welcome.

    Could it be that we should start with “living in peace with our Protestant neighbours” rather than seeing it as a by-product of Brits Out

    how we get rid of the brits and live in peace with our protestant neighbours in a unified 32 county nation

    You remind me of unionist claims that we lived at peace in the north until the pesky civil rights movement.

    The kind of republicanism that can engage with unionists now is not only more likely to unite Ireland but far more likely to ensure that we do live in real peace thereafter.

  • Aontroim

    Rory (South Derry)

    A further couple of points. Firstly, I don’t recall seeing Spike there this afternoon. Where you at the same meeting?

    Secondly, you indeed mention Lawrence O Neill. If i recall correctly, Lawrence O’Neill called up any newspaper that would take his story, to say he was ‘stepping down’ from SF and that he was the core of SF in North Antrim. Blah blah. That was good craic. The truth be told – Lawrence has kept his head down for 20 years while he ran his business in Ballymena. He only joined again in 2005 when he was asked to stand for election! Poor Lawrence.

    His ego got the better of him and he seemed to dominate the microphone at every 81 Commemorative event last year. People were growing weary i presume of his ranting in SF, so he jumped ship knowing that he could be put on a pedastool within the ‘disaffected’. As we all know the anti-SF media love to hear a story like Lawrence’s. It seems that he got his selfish glory a few weeks although evidently this hysteria around Lawrence lasted a month and he now appears to be quickly slipping from grace. Where has he gone?

    So much for challenging Gerry A for a live tv debate on policing! He never posed one question to the SF President at the meeting he attended today! It is blatantly obvious that peoples egos have taken over the dissident crew. Wake up and smell the coffee. Rory (south doire) – u are being led up the garden path.

  • gerry

    I think the reaction on these threads to Rory from south derry, is part of the problem. If you live in an area where intimidation of people is going on, simply because they have different political view points to the leadership of sinn fein, then a man is entitled to strong reactions. On top of the intimidation of the people from his area, he sees the same people being stopped from going to a public meeting, excluded like lepers, with no legitimate reason to keep them out. This would invoke strong reaction.

    I agree with Rorys assessment of PSF. Where are they going with this? How come its ok now to join the police but not months back. this whole policing issue is a distraction, this is about power, and getting into power is the most important thing for PSF. They want into stormont, and they will humiliate themselves for it, they will turn on other republicans for it, they’d sell their soul to the devil to get into stormont.

    Let them get on with it, odds are the DUP will shaft them, or going by past endeavours the life of the assembly won’t be very long anyway.

  • Aontroim

    gerry

    sorry for my ignorance but i do not see the sense in your taking of the hurler anology.

    rory (south doire)

    i await with trepid anticipation on how you would take on this site of struggle IF yous could tomorrow? realistically – say post 6 months-1 year of internal debate … then what??

    Would it not be your assessment that the situation in the North- particularly in relation to equality and civil rights- has progressed significantly over the past 10 years? Can you recall an infamous politician within unionism claiming that on the day of the IRA cessation in 1994 ‘that it was the most destabilizing day for the Union and the state of Norn Iron’

    In the same way, do u not believe that those same people would not want a republican in their ‘police force’? In the same way that Republicans entered local Councils, it has not made them any less Republican. They are the most active body of people at exposing the inequalities and abuses in local government – once controlled by unionism and still under British Rule. Dont wait for the irish republic – get off your laurels and fight for it.

  • ballinascreen

    Rory,
    i arrived at Arbys for the meeting yesterday at 5 to 2, had no problem getting in to the meeting, i would not be known to the local lads as i came up from Dublin, no one batted an eye lid at myself or my wife. The place was seated which mean’t that the capacity would be less than if everyone was standing. there were people like myself who are not party memebers, and there were those who asked some questions and did not agree with the motion that SF are putting forward. I was surprised at how few comments & questions that came from the floor from both those who are pro and anti the montion. however whilst it was not a heavy debate it certainly was a chance to get some limited update of what had been happening in the negotiations. I did not witness any one being intimidated or being refused entry. There was a vote put to the floor if people wanted the media to stay. Personally i voted for them to go, not because of secrecy but from personal security – you never know who records these things to look at the faces !!!!

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Ballinascreen

    You should have seen the provos efforts at 1pm!

  • páid

    Rory, Rory certainly tells a story. Blogging and Slugger in a league of their own here. Information wants to be free and all that.

    The pain the Shinners are going through now will bring them much gain in the future, methinks. Look at the strategy, the organisation, the discipline, and to be fair to the like of Mr Donnelly, the quality.

    The DUPers will be the next to face a fork in the road, and I doubt they’ll cope with it as well as Gerry and the Peacemakers.

  • lies, damned lies

    what sort of ‘public meeting’ excludes the media?!
    Disgraceful but far from surprising.

  • BeardyBoy

    The sort that wants to make sure that people can go without being victimised by Loyalists afterwards perhaps?

  • fuiseog

    Part One

    Gerry’s post above got me thinking. Thanks G. Apologies to anyone who has suffered at the hands of an abuser. I think the analogy is worth making.

    When I hear about and read about instances of intimidation, isolation, threats and acts of brutality up to and including deaths in the recent past by the republican movement. It conjures up so much of the exact same feelings I have experienced and continue to experience when faced with the state forces when they too intimidate, isolate, threaten, brutalise and kill Republicans.

    One set of behaviour exactly mirrors or models the other. Republicans brutalised by the struggle, not having dealt with it and moved on are now bullies and brutalisers themselves. By Rory’s account … Roaming about the building at Arby’s they appeared to just looking for people to ‘step out of line’ to vent on like Maguiness and his bag-men allegedly did to those gun toting (?) Republicans in Bellaghy before Xmas.

    Then you see in the postings here of the likes of SF-esk voices the the battered spouse syndrome of Pat and Henry and others who seem so readily to heap scorn and contempt on the postings of Rory bocht, South Derry and such in the forlorn (?) hope that if they do everything ‘father’ says then they’ll be spared further abuse and trauma themselves. I mean like RoRy how DARE you reveal the family secrets in public, ugh the shame of it!!

    Rather than be true to their claimed family values and publicly expressed positions. Namely we need to put the past behind us, we need to unite and need to forge ahead, new dispensation, their silence on the repeated marginalisation of former comrades (family members) simply condones this abuse and allows it to form part of the neo-Sinn Féin leaderships policies on the ground and is a dirty shameful family secret. They are totally setting themselves up for years more of a cycle repeating itself. Out of fear? Self interest? Neglect? Conditioning? maliciousness? Who knows … ?

    As long as you not once addressed the obvious wrong in this negative modelling behaviour (or at the very least silent on it) are you not acting no better than the Bullying Brits before you. Why do you think Rory and others are so heat up and annoyed and frustrated to be treated in such a fashion by their ‘family’ both on the streets and here on slugger?

    I would contend SF activists having been traumatised themselves (how else could Pat reasonably make such an ugly callous hateful remark about Joe O’Connor)have been desensitized (encouraged by the leadership/father) to the needs of people like Rory and others to be heard and valued and not be intimidated, not be isolated nor marginalised and ejected from the ‘family.’

    All this simply because they disagree with or cant understand ‘family’ attitude changes of late to them and the family’s historic abusers. Now they have to embrace and support the very people who tried to destroy the family? Who killed and brutalised family members? Is there something wrong with ‘Fathers’ head? The hypocrisy is even more pronounced particularly when their siblings on slugger are so obviously speaking from the side of their mouths in asserting that they want to live peacefully side-by-side with their unionist neighbours in a new Ireland. They don’t even treat their own family with dignity and respect so any guesses as to how are they going to act with Trevor and Diana across the street?

    Contined above

  • fuiseog

    continued ….

    The leadership of Sinn Féin’s position is simply not congruent, they weren’t looking for genuine debate for all over the weekend, they were more concerned about what the ‘neighbours’ would be thinking and putting on a public show determined the family’s shame would be kept hidden (Jeeze arent those Adam’s a great family in the area, lets invite them onto the residents committee) than actually healing and giving voice to and bringing together the ‘family’ to all move forward united and empowered. Rory el all not only see the lack of genuineness and can no longer keep quiet about the abuse and completely feel the pain and abject betrayal of this duplicity and it is THAT which they are railing against.

    For lets not be deluded that its the issue of republicanism and policing that is now significant for Rory. Any casual observer knows that Army orders were broken and discarded by the Adams/Maguiness faction of the movement over the surrender of the peoples arms. If ever there was a time to uphold republican ideals and take a principled stand it was specifically then,

    Rory et al still being in the family at that time were feeling valued and heard and had little or no bother then nor were they much concerned over other ostracised family members. But hey it is what it is we all have our own journey to walk we all find our own truth in our own time!!!

    So I ask what are Sinn Féin leadership making here when they take the tactics the brits used against them and project them onto those in the republican family who are vulnerable and easy targets having been bullied and abused all their lives. What do they think is going to happen? Have they any awareness of what they are doing? Don’t they realise they are perpetuating abuse and hurt and trauma onto their children and the Rory’s of this world to meet their own lustful needs for power and in so doing become ugly emulations of their past abusers. !!!

    As an Irish Republican and keeping with the analogy I believe the ‘family’ needs a new father figure to return us to our traditional family values, to restore love and harmony, to root out the evil presence and influence of abuse, trauma and manipulation and ‘fathers’ distorted thinking in our midst so that we can best heal and resource ourselves.

    This done, together and empowered we as a family can once again face the real cause of misery and hurt and evil in our lives – The british presence in the north east part of our front garden.

    is mise
    Fuiseog

  • fuiseog

    Apologies for the mixup in plcement of the post. The post took me so long to write that when I initially hit the button nothing happened but didnt notice.

    is mise
    Fuiseog

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Fuiseog,

    your propaganda (whingefest) is duly noted and subsequently ignored.

    Your amateur psychology lessons are about as convincing as your knowledge of the contemporay political scene, juvenile and embarrassing.

    As for Rory he comes on with his version of events, they are subsequently challenged on their veracity, nothing new on a politics site. Get used to it.

  • mickhall

    fuiseog

    That is such a succinct post, these days time and again the words of the poem made famous by Martin Niemöller come to mind, “First they came for”.

    I am often attacked for criticizing Gerry Adams so often. [which I do] But I believe, whether it is a political party, a business, trade union, whatever, the organization will reflect the personality of its leader, the more so when they are strong willed and energetic, which GA undoubtedly is.

    Even in his speeches over the weekend he could not resist making some snide asides and half truths, which his supporters quickly picked up on and have repeated almost verbatim on slugger and elsewhere. Yet last Friday he said publicly he wished to try and bring the dissident on side or some such.

    I have felt for some time that Adams is a major part of the problem with SF, as to his Derry side-kick, who has turned into a nasty piece of work, without Boss Tweed he would be pensioned off. It is time for a new generation to step up to the plate.

  • fuiseog

    There it is as predictible as can be. Tell me its not fascinating to see the siblings rather than genuinely engage and evolve a discussion or right a wrong simply rush to condemn and demonise those family members who speak out and attempts to expose the abuse and the abuser.

    No surprise at all its the apple of fathers eye first born Pat Mc Larnon. You are blind to how you belittle and degrade yourself a phadraig, right Im calling child line 😉

    Fuiseog

  • Fuiseog

    Mick Hall

    Thank you for your kind words a bit verbose admittedly but its bound to strike a chord with anyone on the outside and isolated because they cant stand by and support ‘The Family’ being humiliated and bullied into supporting the very abusers we have been fighting most of our lives.

    Ive admired and respected your stance here on slugger for some time and find kinship in what you write. More and more like minded people will bond and move toward creating another family for ourselves and one where we can all be heard again.

    To Pat I say it is you and yours who are blind to the contemporary reality on the ground you personally and actively contribute to republicans being isolated, devalued and without a voice.

    And specific to this thread, when not if, Óghlaigh na hÉireann assassinate a member of the corrupt unreformed PSNI your high brow elitism will melt away in irrelevance just as fast as we each begin to feel sick to the pit of our stomachs that its all starting again.

    is mise
    Fuiseog

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Fuiseog,

    you cant resist the personal stuff, that is ok by me, I simply see that one line and dismiss the rest of your tiresome scribblings at 1.08pm just as quickly.

    One of your more pertinent points 1.29 (where you actually try to engage) deserves an answer,

    ‘on the ground you personally and actively contribute to republicans being isolated, devalued and without a voice.’

    Republicans have a voice and are using it day and daily. None of the republicans I know are isolated or devalued. It is for people to make themselves heard in an honest fashion that is important.

    ‘And specific to this thread, when not if, Óghlaigh na hÉireann assassinate a member of the corrupt unreformed PSNI your high brow elitism will melt away in irrelevance just as fast as we each begin to feel sick to the pit of our stomachs that its all starting again.’

    You merely confirm my suspicions as to the bona fides of these groups. Incompetent for the best part of 20 yrs I have no doubt they will find a new level of professionalism in order to ‘prove’ the SF credentials. That will not make me feel sick, merely pissed off at the predictability of it all.

  • Briso

    Posted by Fuiseog on Jan 22, 2007 @ 01:29 PM

    >…when not if, Óghlaigh na hÉireann assassinate a member of the corrupt unreformed PSNI your high brow elitism will melt away in irrelevance …

    Ah, I see. You’ll be putting that in the election manifesto then?

  • Rory (South Derry)

    Fuiseog

    “when not if, Óghlaigh na hÉireann assassinate a member of the corrupt unreformed PSNI your high brow elitism”

    If the threats continue down here someone is more likely to shoot a Shinner first!

    And as for their audience of Lackies:-

    A former member of the ard comhairle from South Derry once likened its meetings to a shop front where on show are nodding dogs to be displayed in the back windows of cars!

    The dog they find a likening to is called Churchill bit of a thing that ain’t it that that dog was brit! Funny ain’t it as now the provo’s are about to join the other irrelevant parties such as lib dems in the new devolved UK solution that Tony B sees as his legacy to history!

  • sderrynantrim

    I think part of the backdrop to this letter is the SF ‘debate’ in Toome. I was at the meeting in Toome as an unaligned republican but as one who has totally disagreed with SF since the ceasefires. And no Im not calling for war nor even throwing a single stone. I actually went to hear what the Shinners said and if I was perhaps picking it all up wrong.

    For me it bolstered my view that its a Power grab by a Belfast clique with hangers on from around the country. Not a massive turnout even with Adams there, yet the majority were obviously bussed in SF yes men and women. I landed late (about 2.15 so I missed any brouhaha at the start) and no one was at the door except some oul boy so I dandered in and stood at the back. I watched MD and his bhoys do security and it made me laugh, they must have been practicing for PSNI close protection duty and actually had 2 of them dander over to me and eyeball me from about 4 feet and then go away.
    What I heard at the meeting was a few ordinary republicans question a very hostile Panel who reacted like men under a great deal of pressure.
    Adams himself was very derogatory towards an older man who quite rightly questioned the copperfastening of partition. As for Kelly, De Brun, S McGlinchey et al, they spoke in Circles (regardless of politics, Gerry Kely has to be the most mind numbingly boring speaker I have ever heard) in SF speak with a few well placed Glengormley, Antrim (D Kearney!) etc cumann members standing up not to ask questions but to provide SF spin on their ‘way forward’.

    For me the seminal argument was ‘ok if I accept policing and all it entails, how does that strategy take me into a United Ireland?’
    A straight answer ye want? Not a chance at that meeting, they blustered and ignored parts of questions while bumming and blowing about ‘Whats your alternative?’

    As far as I can see beyond ministers, DPP participation, MLAs, committee sittings etc, SF have absolutely no strategy or alternative (except possibly beyond the ‘breed them out scenario’!)to take us to a United Ireland. If I could see a clearly roadmapped path as Mr Kearney helpfully put it then I would consider my position but there is no roadmap, no signposts, no nothing to show me exactly how they plan on giving us a 32 County socialist (or otherwise) Republic.

    So all those ‘real grassroots’ republicans who blindly clap whatever soundbite was uttered by this cabal had better wake up because Im afraid it will dawn on them in a few years that this is it. This is what the mighty ‘Leadership’ got us. The Army destroyed, the revolution watered down. A Stormont assembly vetoed by Unionism under British control in an occupied statelet with (maybe)civic policing.

    Sure as a Republican what more did you want at the outset of the struggle for your dead generations and your generations yet to come?

    As for the South Derry letter I read today, this is the same Ian Milne who wears the British symbols of state on his Mayoral Chain and already has swopped his combat fatigues and Armalite for the Armani suit. These people gave all undoubtedly but let me tell you many others did too and they oppose SF and their Munich type appeasement just as much as others blindly follow it.
    Disunity is bad? Or is it just bad when it disagrees with the ‘leadership’?

    Theres a lot of rumblings in this area and let me tell you thats why the meeting was in Toome with a Earpiece adorned goon squad for protection and that my friends is why theres none of these Stalinesque show trial type meetings being run in Bellaghy, Dungiven, Maghera, Kilrea or Dunloy because it just might get a little too unpredictable for some.

    You see I dont want war but I want a unified Republican movement (with ALL REPUBLICANS not just those who believe they have a copyright on the term) committed to unifying Ireland in a Socialist Republic with 32 county Policing, Army, Justice, Health, Education, Social Equality etc. And I want that movement to do it without bending the knee to the occupiers of our country – Britain. To achieve this goal, do it from a position of strength and belief in ourselves as Irish Republicans and in our principles.

    That my friends, is my alternative!