Stay awake at the back..

Just in case no-one was paying attention, Sinn Féin’s Martin McGuinness thoughtfully issued slightly modified statements just before and just after Christmas saying the same thing – i.e. not a lot. The PA report, though, correctly highlights what the statements don’t say

So far Sinn Fein has not even set a date for the special party delegate conference which it has to call to gain backing from its membership for support of the Police Service.

Update RTÉ reports SF to hold ard comhairle meeting tomorrow More Other parties’ responses hereThe report also points out

It is known the party faces a level of internal opposition to the idea of endorsing the police and Mr McGuinness gave no hint in his statement whether the party was getting any nearer getting a date for the all important conference.

Then there’s that little issue of MI5.. and other associated dilemmas

More on target dates, commitments, deadlines and conditions here.

Adds The RTÉ report has some of Gerry Adams’ statement

He said that if plans for an Ard Fheis were agreed, there would be ‘an intensive period of discussion within the party’ which would be led by party chairperson Mary Lou McDonald.

Mr Adams said Sinn Fein would consult with ‘the wider republican and nationalist community across the island, including the families of our patriot dead and victims of state murder and collusion’.

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  • German-American

    Ingram: “… it will be 10/15 years before a serious challenge can be mounted based upon a recognised and true Republican ethos.

    “Adams and McGuinness will be long gone from this scene and given the changing demographics within europe so will, I believe, the passion of a United Ireland.”

    OK, now I’m really confused. How could such a “serious challenge … based upon a recognised and true Republican ethos” actually occur in 10-15 years if the “passion of a United Ireland” is “long gone” at that point? Political parties like FF and New Labour can dispense with passion, but that’s because they have power to offer as a substitute. But if there is no passion, whether actual or latent, then there’s nothing for a brand-new political party to sustain itself on.

    Incidentally, I agree that RSF and 32 CSM are and will remain irrelevant; I mentioned them simply as examples of organizations that self-consciously present themselves as purer alternatives to SF, and hence possible guides to understanding the principles and programs of your hypothesized new republican party.

  • parcifal

    All things considered, tactical voting, splits within the DUP, some SF supporters staying at home, what dya think the structure of the Assembly will look like, March 2007( assuming GA gets the Ard Fheis support )
    Will SF gain or lose seats?

  • ingram


    This exchange says everything about you and Sinn Fein.LOL

    Ingram:You keep forgetting to record the question you wanted answering about Freddy Scap?

    Henry94. You already answered it thanks.

    Dont think so old timer.LOL

    Ding Ding


  • ingram


    Do you still think Freddy Scap was not an Informer? or have you learnt anything recently about understandiing the current situation and how SinnFein have ended up a partitionist party.

    Would you please answer the point raised previously about MI5 involvement in policing? did Mr Adams manage to extract them from Republican policing ? Yes or No

    If not why did he call the Ard Fheish?

    Thanks mate.

    German -American.

    I will clarify my belief and understanding.

    I think it will be at least a decade before any genuine Republican movement can be free from the corruption of the British and Irish security forces.

    By that time the changing demographics may have changed the current climate for voting upon a tribal basis. The influx of eastern european people into Northern Ireland is vast. The UK is the new home of the largest concentration of EU citizens who have migrated from the East.

    How they may vote in the future is an unknown factor but going on the present soundings from these communities they will vote to remain within the cash cow, otherwise known as the UK.



  • Henry94


    Not an expert but I think gains in West Tyrone and South Antrim are on. Another few might make a wish list but maybe not this time Turnout will be everything of course.

  • Henry94


    You may not think you answered my question but you certainly told me what I wanted to know. If you feel you have anything to add on the subject you don’t need a question from me to do it.

  • German-American

    Pardon my butting in again, but I happened to run across this item and thought it was interesting and relevant to the current discussion. (For more on this topic, see the section of this page titled “Sacred Values And Bounds On Rational Resolution Of Conflict”.)

    To quote from the first item, “… violent opposition to peace decreases if the adversary is seen to compromise its own moral position, even if that compromise has no material value”. As an outsider I’m of course being extremely presumptuous here, but this point seems to apply in this case: Yes, SF is compromising a traditional republican principle that considers endorsement of and cooperation with the police in NI to be tantamount to treason against Ireland, but such a compromise is arguably necessary in order to increase the chances for pursuing a united Ireland within a non-violent context.

    I’d guess that on the unionist side one “sacred value” is that the leaders of SF (and by extension republicans in general) are nothing more than liars and murderers or apologists for the same. So presumably the key unionist moral compromise (as denounced by the folks at ATW will be to positively acknowledge that SF has the right both to participate in government and to participate in oversight of policing and justice.

  • Pat Mc Larnon


    the dishonesty of these parties is there for all to see. To walk way from policing until the creation of a Workers Socialist Republic, without making any tangible efforts to bring this Shangri La about is dishonesy of the highest order. If political efforts to bring this about are anything like their political efforts post GFA then we are in for a long wait. Though the people involved can always take compfort in their purity. Likewise Eire Nua, wjhat efforts have been employed to bring this about in the last 20yrs?

    I do not view these as policies but the ramblings of people rightly described as flat earthers. There are real people out there looking for real policies. parrotting Gerry wears an Ar,ani suit year in, year out only gets you so far.

  • parcifal

    thanks henry94
    I’ll make the bet, simply wanted a 2nd opinion.

  • German-American

    You gotta love Google: Apropos of my comment above, here’s a copy of a presentation that Scott Atran made to the US National Security Council back in April 2006; it’s not the same presentation described in the article I previously linked to, but presumably covers some of the same topics.

    In particular note slides 11-14 on surveys of Palestinians and West Bank settlers regarding hypothetical peace agreements, including the fact that adding a financial “sweetener” to a proposed deal actually increased expressed opposition to it. A lesson for Tony Blair and friends?

  • gerry

    I don’t think there’ll be any gains in tyrone, maybe antrim with the parachute of mclaughlin, but not tyrone. i don’t think there’ll be a low turn out, due to the hype surrounding this. that could be a deciding factor.

  • [interrupts] Germ-Am,

    Good to hear from you again. Any chance of dropping me a line before the new year?[/interrupts]

  • joeCanuck

    It’s very difficult for me to understand why some people here continue to feed the troll.

  • Rhodey

    i know this is random but i am wondering what the real name of eamon collins cousin was, they call him mickey in the book, and i want to know what his real name was, i figure ingram probably knows but if anyone else does feel free