2 Sinn Féin MLAs deselected in Newry and Armagh

According to the BBC [not yet online], Davy Hyland wasn’t the only casuality of the Sinn Féin selection meeting for Newry and Armagh. The report said that Sinn Féin had confirmed that 2 of the party’s 3 sitting MLAs for the area had been deselected but they did not confirm which two. Given the line-up, it’s likely that the second one is the party’s current Spokesperson for Older People, Pat O’Rawe, rather than Conor Murphy. The report also pointed out that those selections have yet to be ratified. Adds The Irish News has a few quotes from Davy Hyland[subs req] who claimed he was notified of his deselection by text message while on holiday abroad. More BBC report here Added italicised text.From the Irish News report

Mr Hyland claimed there is not enough debate within the party.

“If you don’t absolutely toe the line or if you have any disagreement… it seems a black mark may be put against your name,” he added.

“There are people out there who see this all being choreographed by the Sinn Féin leadership and that it is only a matter of time before the Sinn Féin ard fheis is called and a decision made to back policing arrangements,” he said.

Mr Hyland said his own view was “if you accept policing you are really accepting the statelet”.

  • miss fitz

    Joe
    The comments about Mick have been removed from the thread.

    I am interested in the fact you are referring to a man who at the time we are talking about would have been in his 20s and 30s. How did he get the label of an ‘old lag’ at that time? I also suspect that he would vigorously deny that he ‘broke’, so you are making unsustantiated allegations against someone who is a dedicated republican.

    The other thing is this. If its such ‘general knowledge’ about Mick, how was he allowed to progress in the party locally to the extent that he did? Surely the penalty for turning was a hood and a wee run to south Armagh? I honestly do not believe your alleagations as I feel that action would have been taken.

  • newry sf member

    I have not told any lies on this site

  • seabhac siúlach

    “I have not told any lies on this site”

    Just a radically different version of the truth…perhaps…or maybe just a number of terminological inexactitudes…

    So, we have pieced together that the selection meeting took place while Mr. Hyland was on holidays and that he was informed of the result by text message (how clinically modern).
    There is a final piece of information missing. Where and when was the selection meeting scheduled to take place? Was it, perhaps, only arranged once it was known that Mr. Hyland was out of the country? Was it timed to coincide with his holiday (which would have been known about quite far in advance, I would imagine)? Is this also a secret? Is it normal in a political party to have a selection meeting take place without the sitting MLA present? This seems highly unusual to me. In addition, how exactly is this democracy when the person put up for selection (and we are told he won 3 votes, was it?) is not there to argue and state his case? A very peculiar form of democracy, indeed…akin to having a one-sided debate…
    We can also ask, on a personal level, why Mr Hyland would not attend this meeting. Is the salary of an MLA not something to be fought for? Even if all of the selection was above board (which I do not believe for a second BTW), then the whole episode has been quite a public relations disaster for P.Sinn Fein in the area. Further, the fact that the selections must be ‘ratified’ higher up the ‘chain of command’ does not make me believe that these selections reflect ‘local’ decision making at all. Why the secrecy in revealing the names chosen? If they are not ‘ratified’, will ye be asked to choose again? Some democracy. A final thought…if we are to believe that it was all above board, why then would Mr. Hyland (not previously known for his media statements) choose to air his grievances publicly? Has he not been a loyal (and therefore silent) member of P.Sinn Fein in the past…if the selection process had taken place fairly and openly as is contested here, then why would he open his mouth at all?

    Just some questions…which I do no expect to be answered…

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘Even if all of the selection was above board (which I do not believe for a second BTW),’

    ‘Just some questions…which I do no expect to be answered…’

    A bit of a sign that you don’t want answers, merely your own bias confirmed.

  • seabhac siúlach

    “A bit of a sign that you don’t want answers, merely your own bias confirmed.”

    No, I would like to be proved wrong…apparently, I am not to be allowed an opinion when framing questions.
    As usual, there is no attempt from yourself to answer direct questions…just some snappy one-liners in reply…so any bias present remains unchallenged. Very good…carry on…you’re doing a great job…
    As I said before, I did not expect to be answered…and I was proved correct.

  • fair_deal

    offer it up

    “I suspect Pat’s fate was sealed when she failed to see off the ubiquitous Sharon Haughey in her own back yard.”

    This and the other claim about Pat O’Rawe being outpolled by Cathal as a reason for ditching her aren’t stacking up for me.

    a. Sharon Haughey stood in a different DEA (cusher) from Pat O’Rawe (crossmore).

    b. In all the Armagh Council DEA’s SF’s 2005 vote grew at the expense of the SDLP of comaprable amounts from 2001. Of the four DEA’s Cusher comes a tight second for best improvement in party performance
    1. Crossmore 5.6 percentage point growth (18% rise in SF vote).
    2. Cusher 1.2% percentage point growth (17.3% rise in SF vote).
    3. Armagh City 3.2 percentage point growth (11% growth in SF vote)
    4. The Orchard 1.5% growth (8% rise in SF vote)
    In Cusher which has just over one nationalist quota this swing was insuffient to put SF’s candidate ahead of the SDLP.

    c. SF have 2.31 quotas in Crossmore and the SF vote divided as 0.85 of a quota for O’Boyle, 0.83 of a quota for O’Rawe and 0.63 of a quota for Monaghan. This looks like highly effective vote management to me plus this DEA recorded the largest groth in SF’s vote in Armagh Council area

  • mickhall

    What has happened to you guys from SF, politics may well be a competitive business when taking on ones opponents, but it should be no such thing within a progressive party, let alone one which still claims to be revolutionary, why the hell do you think many use the word comrades when referring to fellow republicans.

    When SF members use this terminology they are accepting the norms set by the capitalist society we live in. i e dog eat dog, sure this is a fact of life in the wider political sphere, so we must come at our opponents in the same manner they treat us, but not internally within the party. [I could use a quote from Hitler who when asked about the internal affairs of the Nazi party he said he stood back and allowed the survival of the fittest to prevail,] in other words competitive politics, catch yourselves on boys.

    That so many of the shinners are using this ‘competitive’ terminology makes me believe it was sent down the line from party HQ. Well if so and you lot have any of the spirt and anger of former comrades like Paddy Fox, then you should be telling HQ to stuff their ‘competitive’ politics up their arse along with the rest of their neo-liberal group speak.

    “Hate is actually not strong enough word!Exposing the lies of PSF is my new goal in life and I won’t go away you know!Posted by Paddy Fox” 

    Paddy, we both know full well that anger is an integral part of the make up of any decent working class militant, you boys could not have fought the war in the prisons as you did without it. If you feel it, you tell it comrade.

    seabhac siúlach

    In your last post you seem to have just about summed up this whole sorry affair.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘That so many of the shinners are using this ‘competitive’ terminology makes me believe it was sent down the line from party HQ. Well if so and you lot have any of the spirt and anger of former comrades like Paddy Fox, then you should be telling HQ to stuff their ‘competitive’ politics up their arse along with the rest of their neo-liberal group speak.’

    Straw man there mick

  • kensei

    “Further, the fact that the selections must be ‘ratified’ higher up the ‘chain of command’ does not make me believe that these selections reflect ‘local’ decision making at all. Why the secrecy in revealing the names chosen? If they are not ‘ratified’, will ye be asked to choose again? Some democracy.”

    In practically every political parties the leadership will have some kind of veto on candidates selected. Personally, I think it is almost always a terrible idea for the central authority to meddle and don’t think I’ve ever seen defying the wishes of the people there handled well. But let’s enter the real world this problem has bitten Labour and Tories as much as SF. It isn’t particularly sinister, just stupid.

    “No, I would like to be proved wrong…apparently, I am not to be allowed an opinion when framing questions. ”

    No, you are confused. If you are alleging the process was corrupt then you need proof. That would be what innocent until proven guilty mwans.

  • mickhall

    “I think it is almost always a terrible idea for the central authority to meddle and don’t think I’ve ever seen defying the wishes of the people there handled well. But let’s enter the real world this problem has bitten Labour and Tories as much as SF. It isn’t particularly sinister, just stupid”

    Kensie

    You are correct in that all or most party’s suffer from this shortcoming, but that far from makes it OK and in SF case plain wrong, as they claim and indeed were/are a grass roots based party, so they should have sorted such nonsense out long ago.

    A party either has a system of full internal democracy or it does not, there really is no middle way as democracy can not be implemented spoon by spoonful.

  • smell the coffee

    No, you are confused. If you are alleging the process was corrupt then you need proof. That would be what innocent until proven guilty mwans.
    ///
    It has come out in both Kathy Stanton’s and Hyland’s case that the outcome was known ahead of time (see orig. thread on Hyland for quote from ‘wide awake’ over what happened there, and the other Slugger thread from today about KS). So how is the process not corrupt?

    Regardless, the way the Hyland deselection was handled was extremely shitty of SF. If you don’t want to call it corrupt.

  • kensei


    “It has come out in both Kathy Stanton’s and Hyland’s case that the outcome was known ahead of time (see orig. thread on Hyland for quote from ‘wide awake’ over what happened there, and the other Slugger thread from today about KS). So how is the process not corrupt?”

    It could merely be that the writing was on the wall. Even the leadership making it’s preferred outcome known is not incompatiable with democracy, if there is a free vote. I don’t see evidence of corruption per se.

    “Regardless, the way the Hyland deselection was handled was extremely shitty of SF. If you don’t want to call it corrupt. ”

    Oh, it was shitty. But corruption would be a level above.

  • newry youth

    davy a lazy politican????

    surely the people of newry are not so stupid as to allow a lazy man to top three conseceutive council elections and get elected to stormont!!!!

    do not undermine the people of newry, they do not elect lazy people, they elect people who they know will work hard to represent them which clearly davy has done!!!!

    may his hard work be rewarded in future elections!!!!!

  • Stamper

    Chris Gaskin: “Are you a member of the party in the area? I am ignoring people who haven’t got a clue but still proceed to electronically defecate all over this thread. You are one of those people! ”

    I’m sorry I’m only getting to see this now Chris – I see that like Pat McLarnon, you enjoy the subtle put down. Thankfully I’ve a think skin.

    I know what I’m talking about. I’m not a member of The Party Chris, but as you’ll no doubt know, knowledge of the current problems in South Armagh are not limited to members.

    “…electronically defecate…” Sheesh. The standard’s dropping pal.

  • Joe Romhar

    Miss Fitz, it is a sign of how the moderator of this site feels the need to keep SF on board that he bans comments that are true and have a place in political debate. The things levelled against some journalists on this site that were let go by the moderator prove this point. Old lag or old hand is just a term you get in some jails if you are in second time round. First timers used to be called star men. It predated the introduction of political status in 72. You clearly know Mick less well than you claim to. Ask him to show you his deposition papers and that will end the discussion. Or, if you are that interested go back over the newspapers for each of his trials. Are you serious in asking how did he progress to the seniority that he did? How did Raymond McCartney, Leo Green, Aidan McAteer, Padraic Wilson, Brain Gillen, Pat Thompson, Fra McCann all progress? Tell us all that they didn’t break either. Who said Mick Murphy turned? You never heard it from me. In fact I would state categorically that he did not turn. He broke. Lots to learn yet Miss Fitz about the IRA and what gets you taken to South Armagh.

  • martin

    it was in the newry democrat first, the journos there i think know a lot more than the’re letting on.

  • Joe Romhar

    Mick Hall, don’t worry about being a strawman – it is far short of being in the frame for touting

  • mickhall

    Joe,

    😉

  • sean

    …surely the people of newry are not so stupid as to allow a lazy man to top three conseceutive council elections and get elected to stormont!!!!

    Wrong and yes they are. Does anyone know where you would get attendance records for NMDC meetings and assembley attendance records? I am regularly at both and seldom see him at either.

    Furthermore, (and like many SF politicians), if it is known that there’s no vote in doing any work for you, you will be promised the earth but get nowhere. I reiterate, he is far from a popular politician in Newry. of course his own party will tell us he is much loved but I doubt you will find one other politician from another political party who has a good word to say about him. As I have previously said, there are still many people in Newry who remember what he did in the name of Irish Republicanism and won’t forget!

    do not undermine the people of newry, they do not elect lazy people, they elect people who they know will work hard to represent them which clearly davy has done!!!!

  • Glenres

    The Shinners in Newry are no different than Shinners everywhere – arrogant and this blog shows that…