More suppression in SF

A founding member of the Provisional IRA, Laurence O’Neill, has been threatened over speaking out on the policing issue, and has spoken out about the campaign of vilification against those who disagree with party policy. This follows the public letter by former director of elections for Sinn Fein, Tony Catney.

The Sunday Tribune is also reporting that Dominic McGlinchey, “until recently a strong Sinn Féin supporter who”, it is claimed, “was instrumental in organising meetings of republicans who believe Sinn Féin shouldn’t sign up to policing”, has been told by the PSNI that he is under threat from republican paramilitaries.

Is this becoming of a case of, ‘Support the PSNI or We’ll Kill You’?

The Tribune article rounds up the recent threats and resignations. Meanwhile, The Sunday Life is also reporting on the threats made to Laurence O’Neill, writing that the SF “leadership is ‘worried’ about the number of rank-and-file members who oppose plans to support the PSNI”. The article claims seven members of party in North Antrim, including Laurence O’Neill, have resigned.

Laurence O’Neill’s statements follows (click on the comments link below): O’Neill’s statement, as reported today in the Sunday Independent (SF man quits after ‘threats’ over policing):

“Recently policing had become a hot potato and I had been lobbying Sinn Fein, unsuccessfully, for the general public (our voters) to be given a platform to air their views.

“Coincidentally I was invited, by others of like mind, to attend discussions to arrange such a meeting. The first of which did take place in Conway Mill last Monday night. Two days previous I had a bar placed on me from attending this meeting by a two-man Sinn Fein deputation. Subsequently part of that same deputation attended and spoke at that same meeting.”

He said that Sinn Fein was now seeking “to cast a cloud over people with genuine concerns about policing” by unfounded and baseless accusations against him and others.

His quotes to The Sunday Life (SF braced for resignations):

“I was visited by two senior republicans and told to toe the party line on the issue of policing.

“I don’t want to name any names, but they also told me not to attend any debates on the issue which were not organised by Sinn Fein.

“I resigned after they told me I could not attend a debate at Conway Mill in Belfast last Monday. But those who barred me from attending went along and that is just hypocrisy to me.

“I’m disappointed I had to leave the party, because I have been a member of the republican movement since its formation.”

“There is a lot of unhappiness about this issue and I feel policing should have been resolved when the Good Friday Agreement negotiations were taking place.”

Laurence O’Neill, 62, was one of the founding members of the Provisional IRA and took part in the 1972 hunger strike that achieved ‘political status’ for prisoners in the North. He was jailed for 15 years after weapons were found on his farm in the Glens of Antrim in 1971. At the time, he was described as a leading figure in the organisation. (background quoted from the Sunday Independent article)

  • Ah but I have Chris

    Sorry but that voice in your head is not me, it’s the rabbit working the controls.

  • free bird

    Chris,

    Methinks Beny has been on the swall.

  • You could be right free bird

  • Quaysider

    The North Antrim SF website has now re-appeared!
    That was pretty fast work. We are clearly being closely watched…

  • ingram

    Hi Parcifal,

    Quote Mr.Ingram what’s your blueprint for a united ireland then, as you’re so fond of taking the mickey out of SF?

    Well like I have maintained since my first newspaper interview/ piece back in 1999, the cause of a united Ireland was set back at least one generation by this IRA/ Sinn Fein campaign.That remains true today.Adams promised a United Ireland by 2016, not a chance in one million.

    I would advocate Republicans totally and utterly cleanse the party of the British state influence. You know what I mean in this respect, it is essential that british influence over Nationalism is limitted to purely constitutional politics.

    I would then forge closer links with the SDLP and others to form a powerful body that could champion the rights and aspirations of the Nationalist people.Sinn Fein maintains power and influence for one reason and one reason only, self gain and gratification from its paymaster.

    The reason that I take the Mick out of Sinn Fein is because I know the majority of its members and their roles in the long game.The party /movement has moved from a principled one to a party movement that has turned on its own core vote, decommissioned and is more than willing to administer British rule in a part of Ireland I believe is Irish. I believe , those that take the ENGLISH money cannot and should not be regarded as Irish Republicans.Irish Republicanism today does not need violence, it needs integrity and respect and a clear vision. Sinn Fein is lacking in all those point.

    I believe that the Agenda should be driven by the people and not by the leadership, Adams and McGuinness have driven this cause( United Ireland) to a point of no return.

    Ingram

  • parcifal

    DK am on board with that:
    “It may happen by breaking down barriers, trying to create a normal inclusive society and earnestly convincing Protestants that they should own this dream to. Be sure, that London will be happy to help get shot of the place.
    Get the policing thing out of the way. It is a distraction which is holding up the real work.”

    I think once things settle down there’s a real chance of moving to a UI quite quickly; its the right way to go, but admittedly it requires a leap of faith, for those that think all is hopelessly lost, which is why GA has to do the hard sell, and he will.
    Of that I have no doubt.
    You’ll have the Pope over in Easter 2007, and Mrs. Windsor too, and SF will do well in the Southern elections; there’s just a winter of discontent to be gone through by SF and the DUP, and that’s totally normal and to be expected.

  • parcifal

    martin ingram
    if you don’t mind me saying I always find it remarkable that one whose job it was to turn IRA members, himself was turned to supporting irish unity; at least there a sense of irony there.

    Look, I think you’re being too hard on SF, much has been achieved, prisoner releases, much of Patten, legitimacy at home and abroad, equality, rights and so on.

    HMG has been at a loss as to deal with Paisley, he’s not been easy at all to deal with.

    I reject the paymaster thing.
    However you may well know more than I; but as a spook you may well be seeing more ghosts than I.
    lol

    Its common to those who’ve have lived on a diet of whiskey fags and I’m sure been party to many a terrifying situation.
    Have this discussion again at Easter. we’ll see .

    parcifal ( knight of the holy grail )

  • Ingram

    Parcifal,

    quote”Look, I think you’re being too hard on SF, much has been achieved, prisoner releases, much of Patten, legitimacy at home and abroad, equality, rights and so on

    How does that achieve a United Ireland?

    How does decommissioning and accepting paid roles in a British administration achieve a United Ireland IF YOU are truly a Republican.Please check the definition of an Irish Republican first though.

    I AM NOT a Republican, I am a Nationalist.

    The massive loss of life during the troubles achieved nothing except the loss of articles 2/3 and a few millionaires.

    You are right about one thing though. I do know more than you about the IRA, people like Freddy , Martin etc are killers and transcend the United Ireland argument. I paid enough of them and take it from me there was never a problem finding a so called Irish Republican willing to “tout” usually for money.

    Ingram.

  • DK

    Parcifal,

    I am a protestant from a unionist tradition. I would encourage Republicans to continue and indeed intensify efforts to reach out in true friendship to your Protestant neighbours. It won’t be easy. Many will spit in your face. But I honestly believe that you will be surprised at how many are open to persusion, even from this generation who have been the target of the PRM violent campaign.

    Many of us feel a real sense of Irishness. Some to a lesser degree than others. The PRM campaign forced us to deny and surpress those feelings. It will take time and patience to help nurture them back to full life. It will also take Republicans to surpress their hatred for Britain and all things British, including the PSNI.

    Look to the long game. Keep the vision of an inclusive Ireland of one people and many faiths. Those who call themselves Republicans today are no more Irish than me.

    Ingram is correct in his assertion that the RM set back a UI by at least a generation. The tactics were morally wrong and totally counter productive.

    However, the future is there to be made. Handled correctly, the damage can be repaired and Tones vision delivered.

  • parcifal

    martin I refer you to DK’s comments.
    I can’t improve on it,
    re:
    How does that achieve a United Ireland?
    ans: softly softly catch a monkey.
    its a leap of faith.

    DK, I’m off to listen to the Ashes on BBCR5 to do my bit for reaching out to Brit Culture. 🙂

    By the way if your reaching out to Republicans was reciprocated, partition will fall.
    Fair play to you.

  • Those who call themselves Republicans today are no more Irish than me.

    Agreed DK

  • parcifal

    one day I hope all of us here on this thread can come together and sing this song.

    WE MADE IT THROUGH THE RAIN

    We dreamers have our ways

    Of facing rainy days

    And somehow we survive

    We keep the feelings warm

    Protect them from the storm

    Until our time arrives

    Then one day the sun appears

    And we come shining through those lonely years

    I made it through the rain

    I kept my world protected

    I made it throught the rain

    I kept my point of view

    I made it through the rain

    And found myself respected

    By the others who

    Got rained on too

    And made it through

    When friends are hard to find

    And life seems so unkind

    Sometimes you feel afraid

    Just aim beyond the clouds

    And rise above the crowds

    And start your own parade 🙂

    Cause when I chased my fears away

    Thats when I knew that I could finally say

    I made it through the rain

    I kept my world protected

    I made it throught the rain

    I kept my point of view

    I made it through the rain

    And found myself respected

    By the others who

    Got rained on too

    And made it through

    Keep the dream alive ! God Bless Ireland

  • Pat Taffe

    parcifal, why wish the DUP a hard time when a hard time is what Paul Berry wishes as well?

  • parcifal

    pat eh? joke? translate pls

    I don’t want to make it hard on anybody, as regards the DUP I wish I could fly over Ulster and like a wizard from LOTR ; sprinkle magic dust on to them, that would have the effect of releasing them from the Union Jack , and then clothe their nakedness with the warm tri-colour,
    more importantly that they’d be happy, with that.
    That they’d come through the rain too
    and the transformation is theirs as much as ours.
    see.

  • parcifal

    It was a crude attempt at humour incorporating a homophobic remark about Paul Berry

  • Pat Taffe

    Unfortunately this turned into have a go at Chris affair which I helped start. Mea culpa. And yes, my daughter should post herself but she thinks it is for geeks. What does she get on like? She argues the case for the party but knows when it has shortcomings. For example, when I give off about the DUP former mayor getting convicted of voting fraud she laughs and reminds me of the amount of times myself and others would vote all day long for the party. On this board that would be denied. She wouldn’t pretend it never happened. When SF is defended with intelligent points I think it is good for the party. But the way you defend it Chris is embarrassing to your own colleagues. You are not alone in this. Before you were posting here, SF could be found claiming Scappaticci was not an informer. Yet in the street the membership were calling Scap everything. The party posters looked very foolish and always willing to believe any crap they were fed. Slavish devotion to the party line produces the undesired outcome. I back the party but would never get into screaming troll or other pejoratives at those who disagree with me. Sinn Fein is just like the SDLP used to be. But I have no problem with that and would not get into screaming stoop and partitionst at posters. Sinn Fein is partitionist – it can’t really be anything else when it supports the consent principle. It is still going to get my vote because within the northern state it is going to serve nationalists better than the alternatives. As for baby barrister comments ask your colleagues at Queens Chris. It is they who came up with it. Probably jokingly and without malice. As for hiding behind her dress – come on Chris what twenty year old at Queen’s wears a dress?

  • Pat Taffe

    Wagner wag, living in New York – if only.

  • Pat Taffe

    Chris, not a homophobic remark at all in relation to Berry, but a poke at his hypocrisy. Why would you vote the DUP before the SDLP if your opposition to the SDLP is that they are partitionist? The DUP are partitionist

  • She argues the case for the party but knows when it has shortcomings

    As do I

    But the way you defend it Chris is embarrassing to your own colleagues

    How so, something more than just generic statement would be helpfull.

    The party posters looked very foolish and always willing to believe any crap they were fed

    Pat you fail to realise that there are no party posters on this site. Nobody is authorised or sent to post on behalf of the party. Members, like myself, do post however it is done in a personal capacity.

    In relation to scap, of course he was a tout and I have never denied that on this board and I am posting here now for a few years.

    Slavish devotion to the party line produces the undesired outcome

    Agreed however there is a time and a place for everything

    screaming troll or other pejoratives

    There are those on this board and others who are just that. I can disagree with posters and still respect their views.

    I do not respect trolls however or those who hide behind a cloak of anonyminity and try and smear people.

    That is just cowardly!

    A stoop is a stoop and a partitionist party is still a partitionist party at the end of the day.

    I don’t do bullshit or spin, what you see is what you get.

    As for baby barrister comments ask your colleagues at Queens Chris

    I have and they have never heard of it begore. I will say it again, I don’t know your daughter and she was not in Sinn Féin at QUB when I was there.

    come on Chris what twenty year old at Queen’s wears a dress?

    Quite a few

  • Why would you vote the DUP before the SDLP if your opposition to the SDLP is that they are partitionist? The DUP are partitionist

    It was a comment made in jest to show how likely it would be for me to vote stoop.

    I wouldn’t vote for any party other than the one I am a member of so this is all moot.

  • parcifal

    pat
    I recall Adams saying the GFA agreement was an historic compromise, between the two traditions.
    Its written into the St.AA that the constitutional position of NI can be changed by consent, and parties are allowed to campaign for Unionism and for Republicanism.
    ergo.. how can SF be a partitionist party?
    It is not so.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathy C

    hi all,

    It is very heart warming to see so many loyal republicans leaving sinn fein. As it stands now-sinn fein under the leadership of adams, mcguiness and kelly are pushing the agenda of the british crown and it makes me sick. So glad to see it makes other people sick as well. I spit on adams, mcguiness and kelly….pushing the brits agenda and I applaud the republicans who are leaving sinn fein rather than putting up with sf’s pro-british ways.

  • Yokel

    Of course this thread shows the republican movement is in no way split at all..no sirreee, only the DUP, no one else…yes, totally.

  • Pat Taffe

    Chris, a lot of fair points. My daughter does not bother with SF at Queens. She is with her local cumann. I humbly stand corrected on the baby barrister. I have been told that had I been listening instead of typing that it was a general reference to those who studied law not you in particular. On the party being represented on this site we must agree to disagree on that. Could anybody thinking for themselves and not pushing a line really believe what Pat McLarnon for example claims to believe? But if you are putting only your position I have no reason to think otherwise. I do believe that the arguments you make are so on message that they help sustain your critics’ points. I may be wrong but I don’t recall any disagreement with the party line.

  • Pat Taffe

    parcifal, SF is partitionist for the very same reason that the SDLP was and is partitionist. It supports the consent principle. That the consitutional status of NI can be changed by what is contained in the St Andrews is not new. It was in the GFA and more importantly in Sunningdale. Gerry called the SDLP partitionist for accepting Sunningdale. He also stated that support for the consent principle is what makes one partitionist. SF being partitionist does not bother me. Like the SDLP it would like to end partition but also like the SDLP supports the mechanism that maintains partition.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Pat Taffe,

    perhaps you could enlighten me as to what I claim to believe

  • URQUHART

    The first post on this whole sorry thread was from Geln Taiste:

    “Had Laurence a massive online gambling debt rather than deeply held convictions he would have been better thought of by the leadership.

    The organisation is happy to lose Laurence and take in ex Orange Order/RUC man Billy Leonard.”

    I thought this was the most intriguing of the lot, and not another word about it. Instead everyone gets bogged down slagging the hapless Chris Gaskin.

    Diversionary tactics anyone?

    If you’re still around GT, would you care to elaborate???

  • Ingram

    Pat,

    You make some very interesting points and in particular the latter exchanges with Chris.

    If you today have no trouble with Sinn Fein being a partionist party then how do you square the last thirty years of the troubles?

    Sunningdale was rejected and thousands lost their lives, today we have sunningdale for the slow and yet Sinn Fein are trying to sell the GFA and St Andrews has something new and novel. It is not, it is merely a reworked Sunningdale with the forced removal of articles 2&3 .

    Pat how do you see the last thirty odd years of Sinn Fein progress towards a United Ireland or do you believe that is not a realistic achievable goal.

    Ingram.

    PS.Gaskin quote”In relation to scap, of course he was a tout and I have never denied that on this board and I am posting here now for a few years.

    Like I have said, I do have a good record at nailing those touts. Cheers Chris, you can be assured I will keep the good work up.LOL

  • ciaran Damery

    In the name of christ, why would anybody pay attention to a tout/informing son of a bitch who uses the pseudynom, Ingram. There are two routes for slime who betray the Irish Revolutionary Council. Mind, we are not IRA or CIRA etc. We are there to exact retribution on those who were touts and/or British agents. Eamonn Collins and Donaldson will offer one route. Other pieces of unmitigated shit can always follow in the footsteps of Gilmore, Kirkpatrick, O’Callaghan and take their chances.

    Meanwhile I must admit, I never even read the tout’s posts. Am not interested. He must be punished in the same way that any tout will be.

    We have no time to fool around, we are in the process of identifying touts, pro-partitionists and the others who were bought by a foreign occupier.
    I speak as an OTR, with some cred, I promise that those who make themselves available will pay the price.

    Finally, I have said in the past and will say again, we are in the process of creating a devastating military machine, sleek, small in numbers and impenetrable.

    Beirfidh Bua…oh and watch yer filthy ass, Ingram.

  • Pat Taffe

    Pat McClarnon, everything you are told to believe. I thought that much was obvious.

  • ingram

    Ciaran,

    quote”Finally, I have said in the past and will say again, we are in the process of creating a devastating military machine, sleek, small in numbers and impenetrable.

    LOL nice one boy. That post really made me smile especially the bit about impenetrable,you just cannot write this humour.

    Republicans just cannot help it, they touted back in the last century and they tout in this one, all to the highest bidder.Square pegs in Square holes mate.

    Dream on Ciaran, whilst you are in slumberland I will keep the pressure on the real Villains.

    Ingram,

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Pat Taffe,

    so in reality you have made a remark that you are unable to substantiate, quality posting all round that perhaps epitomises what is a truly appalling thread.

  • Pat Taffe

    Ingram,

    things change. I know it didn’t work out the way we all thought it would away back in the 70s. I don’t pretend to be a real activist but like a lot of others there were things we could do like going to protests, supporting the hunger strikers, voting for Sinn Fein, electoral personation, visiting jails, writing letters to papers, collecting for prisoners. Nothing that would get us life but things that helped. And I read up quite a lot on our history in my spare time. Being unemployed for a parts of my life gave me spare time. Back in the 80s I did some education. What I am trying to say is that I have thought about things a bit. Yes, I do support SF and have no difficulty with that. But I have never believed the party line – any party line that should be. When Gerry says he was never in the IRA I say I don’t believe it. When Martin says he left the IRA in the 1970s I say it does not ring true. When Joe Cahill said the IRA won the war, I say I don’t share that view. When the party leadership says we will get a united Ireland out of this I say I don’t think so. It is only people on these boards who believe the line. But how many times have they nailed their colours to the mast only to have them torn down? Not a round, not an ounce – all that puffed up stuff. I don’t go in for any of that. I know SF will support the police and that it is a bad deal and that I will support them after they do the deal. But there is no other deal. Politics is about choosing between bad and worse, not between good and better. Maybe I get it all wrong but that is how I feel. I would not join the party because I know that my views would annoy what a Sinn Fein friend calls the ‘yes men who need somewhere to say yes everyday.’ He was referring to this site. I would also not join it because I am not that into things. I accept that what we have is Sunningdale. But it is better that we have it even now than don’t have it. I think that privately some of the party leadership know this to be true. Tom Hartley says it regularly to people who talk to him outside the party. I am not saying he ever told me that as he is not in my social circle. Ingram, I don’t believe the last thirty years were worth it for anybody not just republicans. I don’t think the IRA were to blame for what happened here. They share the blame. But I always feel there are more atrocities committed by men in suits than by men in levis or wranglers. I think Sinn Fein have just bent to the logic of partition. But it was logical to do so. I don’t see a lot of difference between SF and the SDLP. SF live where I live. My children are in it. I never see the SDLP. So I vote for those I know and grew up with. I was at their weddings and they were at mine. We played football together and went to matches, argued and fought with each other, chased skirt – all the things that are male bonding. I support those I know. Not just because I know them. If they were doing something terribly wrong I would not support them. I think partition is what we got and republicans because they opposed it much more strongly than anybody else will make its effects much less severe.

  • Pat Taffe

    Pat McLarnon, read back over your posts to this board. I will remain a SF supporter. But I feel it would be better served without people like yourself. How many times have the unionists laughed at republicans and ridiculed us because of what you said?

  • Mickhall

    Pat T what I do not understand is this, you condemn Pat Mac for what he posts on this list and say he should leave SF for the good of the party, but you admit Gerry and the peacemakers lie, cheat and deceive their electorate, yet you do not demand they take a hike as you do of Pat mac, a bit of a contradiction there mate if you do not mind me saying so. It is as if you are prepared to take a shot at those lower down the SF food chain but will tolerate the deceivers in chief.

    I understand what your saying about voting for SF in that they are the best of a bad bunch, indeed sadly this is how most people are forced to make their decisions when voting right across Europe and beyond.

    I suppose the reason why some of us are so angry with Adams crew, is because, perhaps foolishly we thought/hoped they were something different and in reality they not only have turned out much like the rest of the political low life, but in some cases far worse.

    You see so much suffering was inflicted and sacrifices made for this struggle down the years, that for Adams to act as he does is intolerable for many people. Pat T you say you are prepared to accept this for the reasons you gave, but I would just say if Adams is prepared to lie to people who have been comrades of his; and the families of people who made the supreme sacrifice, what will he not do.

    I am always wary of people who are serial cheaters on their partners, not for moralistic reasons but because if they cheat on the person they claim to love and respect above all others, they would not give a moments thought to doing me and mine down.

    Adams is always going on about the Republican family/community etc, as to is his sidekick and both men talk about how they love and respect its members so. Yet these two men have time and again lied to there ‘republican family’ and I feel there is a lesson here for us all.

    One of the problems with the northern statelet was it restricted ambition within the nationalist working classes. People were prepared to accept certain things prior to 1969 because that is the way things were. The bar was always set far to low; and this is something Gerry Adams is again counting on returning as you yourself have illustrated.

    True by voting for SF you might get your gate fixed or some such; and see your local SF MP on tele up at Stormont, the White House or Westminster, but what good will they really do. For example they stood before the electorate being against Privatization of public services, yet in office they implemented it. Surly the nationalist community after all that has happened deserve better than more of the same.

    SF’s growth partly came about because the SDLP were not representing the best interest of the nationalist working classes, if SF fail to do so, instead of lumping it, there is absolutely no reason to put up with such crap, for I am confident a younger generation will come along and say enough, we must build a new political organization which if the need arises will replace SF as the first party of choice. Such is life thankfully, and just perhaps this time around we might get a party which represents the best interest of both working class protestants and catholics.

    After all without the violence to drive a wedge between these two WC communities, they might finally agree that the main enemy is not one and another but the corrupt or middle class politicians that have represented them.

    Just a thought, regards to all.

  • Churchill

    I assume the gimp posting under the alias Ciaran Damery is just a wind up??

  • ingram

    Pat,

    Thank You for that compelling reply.

    I find your willingness to follow a political party blindly with a degree of pity, I dont say that to patronise but honestly I felt pity for you.You know they(Sinn Fein) lie YET you are prepared to follow, do you consider all those who lost their lives because of the folly the war? I also know Tom Hartley and others have the same opinion regarding the GFA. It really is a sad indictment of the once pricipled party, SINN FEIN.

    I hope the remainder of your life is more challenging and that you feel the option to move beyond your comfort zone.

    Ingram.

  • Pat Taffe

    Mick Hall, you make an excellent point. I suppose I have always had less tolerance for the yes man than the person who tells them to say yes. They are always the people who persecute others for disagreeing. I have never seen SF leaders be ignorant in pubs or clubs to others. But the yes men would break your neck if you express a different view. They are always trying to please the leaders. When fairly senior party figures decribe them as ‘yes men who need somewhere to say yes everyday’ and are clearly referring to their own people on this board, then it becomes embarrassing for other republicans. When Gerry says he was never in the IRA he does not believe it. But Pat does. When Gerry says the army never robbed the Northern Bank he doesn’t believe it. But Pat does. I suppose the most galling of all was when Pat let Paul Rea turn him inside out. In the Swillybrin pub, Gilly (who is as senior as they come) gave off hell. He didn’t blame Rea for causing the lad from Ardoyne problems. He said it was ‘that eegit Sinn Fein put on the internet to defend him.’ Or words to that effect. What does that tell you? Mick, I know the leadership tell lies and con their voters. But all political leaders do that. I know you are dismayed about Gerry and ask what he would not do. Fair point. But he has brought the north to this point. There is going to be no united Ireland. I accept that and am okay about it. Those I speak to about it in the party don’t actually agree but they talk about maybe in 40 or 50 years time. Only people on this board believe 2016. Just like they alone believe that Gerry does not lie to them. You are right Mick. SF will privitise but so will everyone else. The SDLP say they will back the people who refuse to pay the water rates and Alex said on TV that SF will not be calling on people to refuse to pay. But do you really feel the SDLP will stand by people? Not a chance. SF got a better vote than the SDLP because they learned how to become a better SDLP. It has nothing to do with the working class getting better represented. The SDLP never did that well. SF are a more aggressive SDLP and they get votes they never would have got if they were just a working class party. Mick it is a pipe dream to think that the protestant and catholic working class will come together. Some things run deeper than class divisions.

  • Pat Taffe

    Ingram, the point is that you have missed the point. I do not follow them blindly. I vote them. I know the shortcomings, the spin, the deception. But all of us who vote any party are faced with that. If I followed them blindly I would believe them when they say they never robbed the bank, or were bird watchers, or were never in the IRA. I don’t believe any of it. You were in an army that murdered and you seemed to follow orders blindly. It is not something I have ever done. I feel it was terrible for those who lost their lives during the war. But our leaders telling us the war was a waste of time won’t bring the dead back. They know the war was doomed. That’s why they stopped it. Now they are to be condemned for it. I would never dream of stopping anybody condemning them for the war but it seems odd to condemn them for stopping it. I am glad they stopped it. Am I to condemn what I agree with? Nor do I live in a comfort zone. I would be doing that if I joined with the yes men and did what I was bid. But that’s not for me. Sinn Fein is the best option in world where options are not good. I don’t support them because they are ideal but because they suffice. How could a party be ideal with some of those on this board in its membership?

  • Mickhall

    Pat,

    But we have to have our dreams and hopes for the future, if not for us than for our kids and grandchildren, otherwise we might as well give up or become bitter old men.

    Although at times my wife says I have reached the grumpy old man stage, when I am not going through my second childhood that is.

    All the best.

  • Pat Taffe

    Mick – you don’t have to become grumpy. Accept life for what it is, if it is not too difficult. War is for young men. Our job should be to find ways of trying to stop them going to war. We should never have our dreams fulfilled by them. I look at RSF and think that is what it is about. I look ahead no matter about the past – no one shall be dying for the SF leadership. Some might die for other leaderships. Such a shame.

  • ingram

    Pat,

    I am sorry if I missed your point.

    I understand the points you clarified in your last post.

    I never followed orders blindly, anybody who knows me understands that I am a free spirit with a clear vision.Intelligence work depends on thinking outside the normal lines, you cannot operate in that work for 12 years without being able to understand the game.

    Yes, I could and should have done more to highlight some of the obvious abuses at the time but I did take a stance some years later and was arrested for it.I suppose what I am saying is better late than never.

    I believe in principles and could not vote nor support a party or any individual which told more lies than the former Iraqi information minister.I live under the shadow of a high court injunction, I continue to inform the public and engage in public debate to furnish the public with information which many in positions of trust would rather was kept ” Secret”. I could be jailed tomorrow for even writing this post, that is how draconian that order is, let alone radio or TV work.Indeed I take comfort from the fact Freddy Scap wrote to the Attorney General asking that I be arrested prior to the book being launched because I owed him a duty of confidentiality.In short a mass killer asked the Govt to jail me for doing the right thing. I know Sinn Fein knew about Freddy for many years, they protect him and even today find it difficult to discuss him. Try asking them to confirm Freddy Scaps status at the next Conway Mill meeting? see what shit they smoke then. Freddy was protected by Martin, Gerry, and Adams and a few others. I know why they protected him and one day so will you, but try leaving that comfort zone by asking them( Sinn Fein) to explain the Freddy Scap story.

    I moved out of my comfort Zone and feel good for it, I would challenge you to follow .

    Ingram

  • Pat Taffe

    Ingram, do you really think that the people of West Belfast don’t know that their MP tells more lies than the Iraqi guy you referred to? They know. They don’t care. They see it as part of political strategy. The only people who don’t know are some on this board. I remember reading everything I could about the Scap case when it came out. It was fascinating. In the pubs up and down the road republicans were calling him every name under the sun. On this site what had we but the yes men defending his honour and blaming it on the media or the Brits. How silly they sounded. I don’t know why leading figures defended Scap. I thought it made them look very vulnerable. Maybe you will tell us someday. I have to say this Ingram while I have your attention, I never bought into your allegation on Martin. I almost did when the yes men on this board shouted you were wrong but that soon passed. Even his strongest critics defended him on that one.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘When Gerry says he was never in the IRA he does not believe it. But Pat does. ‘

    I think you will have great difficulty substantiating that statement.

    ‘When Gerry says the army never robbed the Northern Bank he doesn’t believe it. But Pat does.’

    Again, I think you will have great difficulty substantiating that statement.

    ‘I suppose the most galling of all was when Pat let Paul Rea turn him inside out. In the Swillybrin pub, Gilly (who is as senior as they come) gave off hell. He didn’t blame Rea for causing the lad from Ardoyne problems. He said it was ‘that eegit Sinn Fein put on the internet to defend him.’ Or words to that effect. What does that tell you? Mick,’

    Now you are just being silly. Paul Rea (sic) wanted to lay the smear without saying too much or backing it up, just doing enough to lay suspicion. It was at a time when certain posters were abusing the site on the coat tails of Ingram and the like, to lay allegations of informing against individuals.
    It was only after considerable probing Paul Rea (sic) finally intimated who he was trying to smear. If he had simply named the subject of his smear at the very start we wouldn’t have had to beat about the bush all that night.

    I see that you also subscribe to the SF blogging committee line so beloved of the unionists on this site, ie I and others are sent on to follow a certain line. A line that somewhat undermines your claim to be a supporter of SF.

    I had forgotten why I had not posted to threads like this for quite some time, infantile trolling merely confirms my original beliefs.

  • ma

    Jesus this gets sadder and sadder.

  • Glen Taisie

    URQUHART

    Had Laurence a massive online gambling debt rather than deeply held convictions he would have been better thought of by the leadership.

    Check info on this one

    http://www.sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/intimidation_campaign_against_councillor_continues/

  • Glen Taisie
  • Pat Taffe

    Pat McLarnon, very easily settled. Do you believe Gerry when he says he was never in the IRA? Do you believe the army when it said it didn’t rob the bank? Two words will prove you right and me wrong. And I will take off my hat to you if you do prove me wrong. You can hardly dispute that Rea or Rea (sic) as you called him certainly took you apart when he had no reason to. You let him. Smear was all he had yet he bested you. He called you a liar if my memory does not fail me as did some poster the other day about the policing debate you were at. I don’t think you are a liar, just that you believe anything somebody senior tells you. How is it that you rather than Rea or Rea (sic) caused the Ardoyne lad the problem? Why did you make the defence of the lad so ridiculous. This is where you really have me. I detect a suggestion in your post that you now agree with Rea or Rea (sic). I have saw nothing that would persuade me that the Ardoyne lad was dodgy apart from your defence of him. Now, because I disagree with you you are back to the old hoary one of implying I am not a SF supporter and that I am also an infantile troll as well as me buying into the unionist line that SF have a ‘blogging committee.’ This is my complaint about the yes men. They destroy credibility. They attack their own supporters because they won’t scream yes to everything as well. I suppose I am guilty of believing that there is a party line on the last thing. But not because the unionists say it. It just seems the type of thing the party does. One of my reasons for not being in the party. It is so hard for the yes men to accept people who don’t think as they are told to.

  • Pat Taffe

    Just to clear up, you actually believe there is a “Sinn Féin blog committee”

    If you do it’s pretty hard to take you serious anymore.

  • Pat Taffe

    Hi Chris, your prerogative as to what you take seriously and what you do not. I am guilty of not taking some people serious myself. I did not take Alex Reid serious when he said on TV he believed the army about the Northern Bank. I didn’t take Gerry seriously when he said the Tohill incident was a bar room brawl. Did you take any of that seriously? Maybe you don’t take me seriously for not taking their statements seriously. I guess it puts me outside the line but it is just how I feel. I don’t want to be tied to a line Chris. The blog committee is not actually my phrase. But my experience from looking at other organisations apart from Sinn Fein leads me to believe that when people are all singing from the same hymn sheet with virtually no disagreement between them it is more than just chance. I am sure you have listened to the church when it talks about child abuse. There is definitely a line there. If it is not chance then it suggests a very high level of indoctrination. In Sinn Fein’s case if the posters are all saying the same thing as the party spokepeople, using the same phrases and logic, then it does suggest a line being followed rather than individual thoughts.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Pat Taffe,

    you really are behaving ridiculously and are now teetering on the edge of embarrassment. You made allegations about me and my opinions on Adams and the Northern job. You were quite specific on what I believed and I simply asked you to put up, something that you have failed to do so far. I am now asked to prove my ‘innocence’.
    It is quite obvious that you don’t do irony given that this thread was started as a means of highlighting the case of people who were allegedly smeared. You know, things said about them that they didn’t do or say.

    Liar is a word that is easily bandied about whether by Rea (sic) or some other anonymous poster, it is the substantive issues that are important. If you believe that it is ok to piggy back on the allegations of the likes of Ingram without those allegations being challenged then you are a strange type of republican.

    Also do us all a favour, to plead with others to believe that a thread on slugger was the topic of conversation between ‘Gillie’ or any others who are ‘as senior as they come’, really is quite sad.

  • Pat

    Do you have a problem with people having the same views? That is the basic tenant for membership of any political party. You seem to only define yourself through what you are againsg and you try to smear posters on this site with cliams of indoctrination.

    You do this to try and discredit them and their views in favour of your own.

    A rather poor form of debate

    I also noticed that you skirted around my question rather than answer it, why was that?

  • Pat Taffe

    Pat McLarnon, so my hat stays on. Checkmate, Bluff called. Game over.

  • so my hat stays on. Checkmate, Bluff called

    The old maxim of “he who asserts must prove” rings true about now.

    You made allegations about Pat, it’s up to you to prove them.

  • ingram

    Pat ,

    quote”They know. They don’t care. They see it as part of political strategy

    The game is to mislead your opponents, not a long term mission to deceive your own side. Gerry and Martin have lied since 86 about their true intent, the only people who knew was HMG.That is flying on a wing and prayer if you believe those two serial liars.

    In relation to Pat Mc.

    You have rightly nailed his colours. A yes man who knows no better.A sad case.LOL

    In relation to Martin McGUINNESS .

    We shall keep it simple but do you know why as Eamon Mccann admitted on radio that he promoted a Known and exposed British stickie agent to the role of Northern Command IRA Quartermaster after a matter of weeks. He then HANDED control over the largest ever arms find on the island of Ireland? AGAINST HIS OWN BRIGADE Staff wishes ? Ask the local IRA lads about Martin, Derry PIRA was riddled.The 2 Supergrass lads wanted and where able to nail him, but surprise, surprise the NIO did not want to proceed with charges against Martin, instead 57 others were detained. Lucky Martin eh.And that was back in the early Eighties.

    He then begged the Heggarty family to return him,the FRU allowed him to return unhindererd. Very convienently he then along with Freddy Scap set about killing him.Check the Freddy tapes, he makes an interesting remark about Martin and that Murder in it.

    The police ( RUC) then believed they had enough evidence to charge him with offences( Op Taurus) after the cook report. The NIO stopped that prosecution. They continue to protect him today.

    I will not go into why Father Faul knew he was a tout because that broaches upon family matters and some who dealt with him are and remain under threat from Sinn Fein today.

    The Sunday Times and other papers have named him from their sources as the Fisherman, I would have termed him the Ugly runt.

    In respect to why Martin and the two Gerrys defended Scap, well lets just say that really is an interesting chapter.LOL. I take it you will be asking your local Sinn Fein MP at the next opportunity to explain this contradiction.

    He will be nailed, he knows it, that is why he will not take up my challenge to debate it in a public forum.

    Regards to all.

    Ingram

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘You have rightly nailed his colours. A yes man who knows no better.A sad case.LOL’

    Poor Ingram, still waiting on you proving beyond a shadow of a douby about MMcG. Remember you promised us all the details several months ago. Remember, you were going to stay on his case. But you overplayed your hand

    Unfortunately for you at that time the story was getting an awful lot of tabloid coverage and that is when you made your promise to hit us with the facts. Then just as qucikly the story dried up and was dropped by the newspapers. Poor old Ingram left high and dry without the neccessary facts to put before us all. What’s wrong didn’t he have strange body movements that are a give away sign to those trained to spot such things.

    Don’t worry though the tabloids will have another victim soon and you can uncover them as well. Keep hanging in there. Anyway, Jim Cossack in the Sindo says you have a good track record and if that is not an example of being damned with false praise then i don’t know what is.

  • Pat Taffe

    Chris, no I don’t have a problem with people having the same views. But exactly the same views on every issue sounds strange. I didn’t see it as a smear to suggest that there is such a thing as indoctrination. It happens all over the world. I thought I was describing what I was for in the exchange with Ingram and Mick Hall not what I was against. What question did I skirt around? Put it again. I see that you didn’t answer my own. Why was that? The comments made in relation to Pat are hardly allegations. What – that he believes Gerry? If I was to have said he did not believe Gerry that might constitute an allegation.

  • Pat Taffe

    Chris, unless I have missed something the only issue you put to me me was ‘Just to clear up, you actually believe there is a “Sinn Féin blog committee” If you do it’s pretty hard to take you serious anymore.’ That was a statement rather than a question to which I responded.

  • Pat Taffe

    Ingram, I know you make the case that Martin is an agent. I just don’t believe it. If the evidence mounted up I would reconsider. But for all the allegations it has left me feeling he might have a case to answer for all sorts of things that go wrong. He is hardly without company on that in this world. At that level of leadership all sorts of mistakes must be made. If I was doing his job I dread to think of the blunders I would have made. And then somebody would come along and say I was an agent. Blunders or cock ups don’t make anyone an agent. I accept your point about Scap being covered for. Then when the party defend somebody else we are all left to wonder if it is a rerun of Scap again. Look at Tom Hartley. He got hammered and people were prepared to believe it. On the basis of what? I sat in pubs where he got ripped asunder and when I objected to the backstabbing, people pointed to Scap. That meant not a thing. It is all too easy to come on these sites and shout ‘agent’ and then use as evidence the fact that the resident yes men deny it. Because they denied Scap was an agent it is an easy case to make but in real terms it is not evidence. Being defended by the ridiculous is not proof of anything.

  • Pete Baker

    I know it’s a bit late in the day, guys, but you’d probably have had a more informative discussion, for yourselves and for others, if you had stuck to the rules of discussion here on Slugger – Play the man, not the ball.

    Or, in other words – Disagree all you want, but keep it civil!

  • dpef

    Pat,

    I need to know one thing, is the ‘blogging committee’ exempted registration duties?

    You reappear on Slugger’s when there is work to do? For shame!

    Back on the doorsteps, god damn you.

    You can play on Slugger’s in April or after 9pm (but you should be busy planning for tomorrow until 0130).

    Same goes for any Sinner (not Pat Taffee of course because he shouts from the sidelines and has all the drinking time in the world).

  • ingram

    Pat,

    I understand your points but you must understand also that I worked this game, I know how Frank was promoted and I know Martin is an Agent and so do a good few other Republicans.I understand your reluctance to directly address the points raised in my previous post, should Chris or Pat feel inclined to do so they are welcome to join the debate.

    Let me ask you once more Pat! why did he promote a Known and exposed British Agent into a position to recover the largest ever Arms shipment?.

    And then please explain why the state stopped the police from proceeding with a prosecution ( Op Taurus) although the evidential threshold was reached?.

    Why do you think the leader of the IRA was allowed to stay at home for the duration of troubles, never attacked and never charged with any terrorist related offences? even the two Supergrass Agents were not allowed to go witness aginst him? any idea?

    Any idea why Father Faul named him as a tout?

    I honestly DONT want you to answer these points, for to do so would place you in some conflict with many in your community.I was wrong to ask you such a pointed question.I am sorry.

    I have no intention of putting you in a difficult position and rejoice the fact that you have the integrity to say, Sinn Fein tell more porky pies than the former Iraqi information minister.

    Regards.

    Ingram

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Ingram,

    when you gamble high you lose in direction proportion to your wager.

    You promised much but in fact offered no more than a regurgitation of a number of stories that have been doing the rounds for years. It was you who stated categorically that you would have MMcG nailed by now. You didn’t deliver.

    As stated, the newspapers did not ride to your rescue with new ‘facts’ for you to incorporate into your story. The one trick pony has developed a bit of a limp.

  • ma

    I’d like to put it to you all, that I for one am no supporter of sinn fein, but having said that at least the two reps from that party post here under their own name. That takes a bit of guts to take all sorts from annonymous people. I don’t post under my own name, for the simple reason, I don’t want any hassle, Ijust want to live peacefully with my neighbours, protestant catholic or dissenter, including other republicans who differ from me.
    There ought to be room for dissent. There must be in all democratic societies, but unfortunately dissent and free speech then in turn becomes a stick with which to beat people, and that is a distortion of its purpose.
    Ingram, distorts free speech, he lobs stones at people mostly shinners, and does not have the guts to come out from under his stone. When making the allegations about mcguinness-he defied mcguinness, to come out and debate with him in a public forum,knowing full well mcguinness couldn’t do that because he has an IRA past. That is deceit disguised as free speech, and distorts all that republicans fight for, the fight for a democratic and open society.
    Ingram, and his side kick keeley, have openly admitted to being involved in murder and have never been punished. If the FRU were involved in mass murder as Ingram tells us, yet Ingram was never involved in mass murder. Pull the other one. If you have a document produce it, if not go away.

    As to the purpose of the thread. The suppression of different views in sinn fein. There appears to be plenty of that about. Chris Gaskin and Pat McLarnon, while I applaud you for posting under your own names, and taking rubbish and defending the party you support, you should not go about claiimg everyone is a troll who disagrees with you, and for what it is worth, the party you support will not reward your loyalty. They didn’t reward Catney’s loyalty, or O’Neill’s loyalty, or indeed even that of the hungerstrikers, who gave the ultimate sacrifice. They won’t reward your loyalty either, they will take it and use it, and move on. Nothing will stand in there way in the pursuit of power. Not even the sacrifice of their own people.

    may god forgive them for they are shameless, and I pray that history will not be kind to them.

  • Mickhall

    Whilst I have no doubt that Pat Mac and Chris when posting here do so as individuals, all be it individuals who publicly support the leadership of their party without question, there is an interesting question here about SF attitude to the WWW.

    Like any successful political party SF macro manage the news output on their affairs. However due to the freedom that the internet offers they have never really come to terms as to how to use it.

    Most political Parties are like this, but due to SF being very innovative on many issues I am somewhat surprised they have not attempted to harness the powers of the internet more fully; and I have little doubt there failure to do so is due to the democratic deficit that exists within the Party. In truth all they use the WWW for is as a notice board, to publish AP/RN or speeches by the party leadership, plus up and coming events etc via local branches, oh and to sell things via the SF online shop.

    Like many of there rivals they do not encourage their members to post to Internet sites, although blogs are different as it allows the owner far more control. Thus those of us who disagree with the strategy of SF have in many ways an open goal. However many of us do not want an open goal as our purpose is to extend democratic accountability within politics not restrict it to a game played by leaders only, with party members getting a walk on part to rubber stamp the leadership decisions a la SF.

    If SF was truly interested in having a debate over policing etc they would have thrown open their web site and offered it as a vehicle for such a debate, but they did not, they went down the old war time road.

    Politics being the grubby business it is, it is par for the course for political leaderships to smear their opponents, SF due to its history of having local networks of activists, who live in the areas in which they are politically active, have this smear technic down to a fine art. [the UK Labour party when it was based within the council estates, factories etc worked in a similar manner.]

    Hence what we have seen since the Adams leadership took control of the party is that life long activists, who have come across a bridge to far in supporting the leadership, have found their personal weaknesses or some such spread around the whole community in which they live; and suddenly they find themselves not getting a good morning from their more gullible or fearful neighbours.

    Such is a life in SF politics, remember Gerry Fitt, what was put into practice against him is now being put into effect, admittedly on a lesser scale against people like Catney, O’Rawe etc. Just maybe Fitt reaped what he sowed, I do not know, but those who have come under the smear in recent years have not, for they had served the movement well down the years.

    Now the problem with the Internet for SF is those who make the smears have to emerge from under their rock, or at least their gofers do and more importantly there victims can fight back and quickly make mincemeat of those slandering them. Plus when someone is smeared we all head for sites like this to challenge such nonsense. In the past this would not matter because Adams had a back up with which to exert his will, but to day even the local hoods tip them b o l locks, as they are in full knowledge of the promises Adams has made to the British State.

    Imo the future holds only one option for SF, it must embrace the internet to enhance debate and democratic accountability and pension off and decommission its spin and smear masters. For as we all know the days when the likes of a Tony Catney would be ostracized for being given the black spot by Gerry Kelly are gone, if any thing it is the latter who is regarded as being an embarrassment for his behavior over this matter.

    [Incidentally Mr ‘ingram’ this is the very reason you have been unable to make your allegations against MM stick, for as the two Pats have demonstrated in their posts here, you have failed to put up, instead hiding behind the reputation of a dead man, Dennis Faul. You have also failed to tell any republican-left writers, even off the record, as to why, beyond the circumstantial evidence around events in Derry you are certain MM is a tout. Thus we will not run with this unless you stop splattering the rim of the pot and actually start pissing in it.]

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ma,

    I have to state that I post on here on my own time and effort and not as a rep for SF. I agree with what you say throughout your post though I would like to hear more detailed accounts of the alleged smears against Catney and O’Neill.

    As for the allegations of trolling when I heard the account of ‘Gillie in the Swilly’ by one poster that afforded me the opportunity to dismiss the trolling there and then, regardless of whether loyalty is administered.

    Mickhall,

    the use of the web by all parties, not just SF, appears to be very much on the back burner as regards a platform of open debate. Indeed I suspect active users of the medium perhaps overestimate the impact it has on ‘ordinary people’. Would the sites be poopulated by those who religiously attend political debates and meetings i.e. a motley crew at the best of times.

    Also the allegations of smear can and are a two way street. I know of one particular poltical site where allegations of informing etc by the SF leadership seem to be a pre-requisite. But seriously mick your attempt to portray Adams as some omnipresent portent of doom doing down all and sundry who ever gave him a sideways look is not very plausible.

    Some activists have lost their own particular arguments over policy within SF, an organisation I believe exhausts its activists with debate and detail. Most choose to stay and fight their corner others run to Suzanne Breen with a sob story.

  • ingram

    Pat,

    quote”As stated, the newspapers did not ride to your rescue with new ‘facts’ for you to incorporate into your story. The one trick pony has developed a bit of a limp

    Pat as you know both the Sunday Times and the News of the world sourced this story Independant of me.They named him the Fisherman working for Box, not me.

    Now would you like to deal with the substance and stop avoiding the points raised. Thats a good boy.

    Ma,

    quote”I don’t post under my own name, for the simple reason, I don’t want any hassle, Ijust want to live peacefully with my neighbours, protestant catholic or dissenter, including other republicans who differ from me

    What a stupid post, you go on to name Peter Keeley and yet you dont have the balls to name yourself. To the best of my knowledge Keeley has never posted on this forum.You may want no hassle in your life but you seem prepared to dish it out to Keeley, very strange person you are.

    If you believe I have commited any murderers you are welcome to furnish that informnation to the police or to their off shhot organisation Sinn Fein. Feel free Luv.

    Why dont we keep to the facts, Ma deal wth the issues regarding Martin. Feel free to comment upon why he is protected.

    Mick Hall.

    Cast your mind back to my exposure of Freddy Scap. YOU and many others rubbished that claim both on the IRBB board and on other media.I told you it would take time and it did indeed take time, over 2 years to wrestle him from the breast of Sinn Fein.Do you think the Freddy tapes came out by ACCIDENT? it was all part of the long strategy, my strategy that eventually succeeded.

    Sinn Fein today remain reluctant to admit his role for the FRU, why is that? that is because it would open the door to other sensitive areas.They know they are on the slippery slide. I dont blame them, I would do the same in their very weak position. They are crumbling from within, that is something I predicted would happen many years ago.It will implode, just be patient.

    I have told you previously that it will take time to tease Martin into the open, I predicted in the papers that it would take over 2 years to nail him.

    He could of course take up the offer to debate his role as an Agent, upto date he has not.That is a shame BUT like one or two contributors to the Blanket have remarked, why not?.

    Regards to all. Merry Christmas.

    Ingram

  • ma

    ‘what a stupid post you go on to name peter keeley yet don’t have the balls to name yourself’

    neither do you mr ‘ingram’. NO its a biological fact I don’t have balls, but I try to have a little integrity, something an ex-FRU man wouldn’t know anything about. As for the blanket, as far as i know it was set up as a vehicle of free speech not for you to come along and use it to slander all and sundry. And I am surprised at mcintyre allowing you to post and contribute for him under a pseudonym, he wouldn’t allow anyone else to do so.

  • Mickhall

    Pat,

    The point about Gerry Adams is that he is a very, very able politician who fishes in a comparatively small pond and there is little doubt as a politician he is head and shoulders above his immediate comrades these days. That he has been at the top of his particular greasy pole for decades, in itself speaks volumes as to his abilities, for those he has overcome down the years Bell, Ruairi, Fox etc were far from shrinking violets now were they. Yes I do feel that much, if not almost all that flows from SF is down to him, not least its cautious and conservative politics that masquerades as radicalism and a lack of any real trust in the people.

    you are correct about the political parties failure to use the web, they are almost all a bloody disgrace whether they be on the left or right politically. Although increasingly the WWW is becoming the first stop as far as ordinary people are concerned when looking for info. This use may well be mainly booking a flight for a holiday or the like but these days when an important political issue arises, say policing for example, people will log onto a site like this who would rarely go to a public meeting [and who can blame them, I have to be dragged to public political meetings these days they are so boring]

    People like you, Pat T and I are hardly unique as users of the web these days, yet we are all working class, in our 40 or 50s and are thus portrayed in the media as not being web savvy. Unless political parties come to terms with this fact and allow us to have our say then more people will abstain from voting.

    Perhaps that is just what the powers that be want, anyone who is one of the minority who belongs to a Political Party, should imo demand that its leadership set up a board in which the program of the party and other topics can be argued through. The internet gives an opportunity for politicians to not only reconnect with the people, but learn from them, which admittedly would be something unique.

    Have a nice christmas

  • ingram

    Ma,

    You having NO balls maybe true but then again that is a charicteristic of many Shinners, indeed Pat Taafe would qualify for that term.

    I note you once more declined to enage the substance of the points raised, that is sad bit connsistent with a person who wants a no hassle life.Yet feel able to give keeley hassle.

    Mr Mc was also initialy reluctant to accept the Scap allegations, he remains a sceptic of the Mcguinness claims yet he is true to the free speech angle unlike Sinn Fein.

    Mr Mc is from the real Republican position, he is not a partitionist, he lived is life to a belief that his sacrifice would be for a United Ireland. Today he accepts that he worked for a division of the British Govt otherwise known as IRA/Sinn Fein.Few would argue with his argument.

    Merry Christmas Luv.

    Ingram

  • URUQHART

    As good a tmie as any I think for a reprise of a great article by another former SF activist on the issue of the provos and policing…

    http://www.eamonlynch.com/work23.htm

    An that was more than 4 years ago.

  • ciaran damery

    Ingram: your name is known to Irish Republicans. That is a fact. I will name you if the moderator deems it legal. In any event, on dark streets, we don’t care what ya call yerself, your day is done. Mar shampla, you piss and cry at your Pay Masters because you are not tucked away in the British equivalent of a billet and because you are unsatisfied with your payoff. Man, you are such an easy target that it beggars belief. Meanwhile, your contemptious remark pertaining to the new republican military machine, currently in the offing, is indicative of both your quisling perspective and your absurd view that all Irish Republicans can be bought. Well speak for yerself laddie. Yes, even the Fenians and the IRB and IRA have have touts within their armies. But what army is without a tout? Take a look at what Putin did or even Pol Pot. But the New IRA Revolutionary Council will endeavour to ensure that all volunteers are vetted are young, committed and pure. Unlike you Ingram (oh Mick please let me divulge his real name and address?) not all are prepared to turn on their communities for money. Ingram, you are the living dead, expose yourself or we will do so. You are bound to face justice aqlong the same lines as Moreland. In the interim be cozy in the knowledge that your time has not yet come….ach tiocfaidh sé agus beidh mé ann. Up Cork – Rebel County.

  • Mickhall

    “Mick Hall.
    Cast your mind back to my exposure of Freddy Scap. YOU and many others rubbished that claim both on the IRBB board and on other media.

    Posted by ingram”

    ‘martin ingram’

    The above is simply not true, my position on Informers has always been anyone can/could become an informer if certain situations prevail and I mean anyone. However myself I am not prepared to ‘publicly’ claim they are so unless real evidence is produced.

    Thankfully I will never have to sit in judgement on informers, although when someone is justifiably outed, I feel we should all say there but the grace of god.

    As to MM, due to your refusal to meet any republican writers, I am not prepared to debate this with you here as clearly you will not discuss this in any depth. Which makes me conclude you see this matter as just another chapter in the great game, to be played for all it is worth. Phil Agee set the benchmark as far as I am concerned for former intelligence officers, in that your first duty is to inform the people your informers touting on.

    Must go now as I have posted far to much of late.

    I wish your family a happy Christmas

  • ma

    Its money him and keeley want.That and to spout there tripe to anybody who’d listen.

  • URQUHART

    Ma: “Its money him and keeley want”. Who’s ‘him’? Scap or McGuinness?

    Another excellent one from the Lynch archives…
    http://www.eamonlynch.com/work18.htm

  • ciaran damery

    Ah but sure Ma, the proverbial dogs in the street know who Ingram is. In fact we were sorely tempted to eliminate the FRU piece of shit in a coffee house in Amsterdam not so long ago. But we weren’t sure, cuz he was off his head on pot and spoke with a foreign accent, broken english etc. Bulldogs beware! Yer in our sights. Oh and please please let me name this FRU mass murderer on this thread. We have his address, haunts (no pun intended) he frequents and the capacity and absolute desire to punish the little twit. As for Scap? I hear he likes to read yer blogs, but never posts…as if we don’t know where he’s at. And I laughed. BTW They are also crying for your blood in Managua…don’t even try to visit Central America. Or on second thoughts, do, come to Venezuela, where Pres Chavez helped our comrades (AKA Colombian 3) and would be more than willing to render you MIA, for ever.

  • ingram

    Ma,

    Its money him and keeley want.That and to spout there tripe to anybody who’d listen.

    LOL. Silly lady. The Newspaper made it clear Luv that my fee was donated to charity. You are a sad little lady who keeps avoiding the issue.Sad case, now go away if you cannot get your facts right or at least engage in the debate in a meaningfull way.

    Mick Hall.

    quote”The above is simply not true, my position on Informers has always been anyone can/could become an informer if certain situations prevail and I mean anyone. However myself I am not prepared to ‘publicly’ claim they are so unless real evidence is produced.

    Your above statement is true, you asked for evidence at the time Scap was exposed. You stated that nobody should be subjected to this exposure unless proof was provided.

    I told you to be patient. I did deliver and I will deliver this time too.I have previous for telling the truth Adams and McGuinness have history of telling lies over a considerable period of time.You make that point yourself.

    A merry Christmas to you and your family Mick. I will be back on duty after the New Year, I promise to meet you shortly after the New Year Break.

    Ingram

  • ciaran damery

    Ingram – wishing happy xmas? will ya be here then? Also, may I (oh! how polite!) name you on this thread. I promise I will provide the correct addresses (mainly one)? I need your collusion (Ha!) on this one as I do not want the Blog to suffer the indignity of being sued by Orange filth….

  • kadenza

    Pat Taffe,

    Good honest 4.39 post, explains a lot.

    Ingram – zip it man, its boring. You have become the owen paul of Spookistan

    ps where is your alter ego Busty Brenda

  • Jeeves

    ‘Mr Mc is from the real republican position he is not a partitionist, and he lived to a belief that his sacrifice would be for a United Ireland. Today he accepts that he worked for a division of the British government known as IRA/SF.’

    Who appointed you his spokesperson ingram? Can he not speak for himself, or does he need you to help him out?

    ‘Few would argue with his argument.’

    Really. There are quite a few who would argue.

    More guess work Mr Spooksperson?

  • Churchill

    ****** YAWN ******

    Are you over 18???

    Or if by some small probability you are real, wtf is Mick Fealty doing letting his site be used as a mouth piece for unreconstructed renegade provos??

  • circles

    ciaran – stop embarassing republicanism will ya? I mean if you’re an adult and yer still posting like this I think you need help.

  • Churchill

    I’m still waiting for details on the supposedly sleek, high tech republican army that’s currently being formed. Are you buying F-22s or Eurofighters for its airborne wing then?? 🙂

  • Realist

    “No Orangie will be spared. We’re gonna take ‘em all on, from UDA to DUP to FRU. We will focus on destruction and annihalation”

    ciaran,

    And will the(inevitable)casualities on your side be buried in coffins drapped in the flag of the Irish Republic…Green, White and Orange?

  • darth rumsfeld

    “ciaran – stop embarassing republicanism will ya? I mean if you’re an adult and yer still posting like this I think you need help.”

    oh no circles, he must be allowed to continue to show the REAL face of republicanism – the one that has form stretching from 1641, through Scullabogue, Dunmanway, Claudy,the Abercorn, Droppin Well and Omagh. I’m quite prepared to accept assurances that not all republicans are like him- many are better at concealing their visceral anti-Britishness- and quite possibly some are truly anti-sectarian idealists- but until you drive out the lunatic fringe ( which has never been done before) well…keep living the dream, cos reality won’t change. But, since they’ve apparently decommissioned all the guns, I wonder how SF are going to face these people down.

  • ingram

    Mick F.

    About time you put the kids to bed and stoopped them playing with the PC

    Darth.

    You are wrong mate, real Republicans do not see me as a threat. Many, many Republicans know who I am, if they wanted to do me they could have done so ,many times over.Ciaran just lowers the whole tone of the board.

    Realist.

    Sadly you are right.

    Ingram.

    PS On holiday now till after Christmas,Ciaran and God willing.

  • ciaran damery

    ingram, mo chara – remember, now that I know where you live, it’s only a matter of time……

    If I were in your shoes, I would spend my last earthly hours enjoying the world. Of course, if you wish, you can spend them fighting for a lost cause. You’re only delaying the inevitable. But I think that you know, you’ve already lost. 🙂