Deja vu.. all over again?

According to the PA report, and the BBC, if by lunchtime tomorrow there has been no agreement between the parties, Tony Blair’s official spokesman has stated – “We will put forward our best guess as to what a way forward is. The parties then would have to decide their responses to that.”.. Hmm.. that approach has worked so well in the past.. Adds RTÉ report

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  • Any guesses on who will use the “barge pole” line first?

    What odds on “the hand of history”?

  • heres hoping

    “this is not a day for soundbites but the hand of history” brilliant, he doesn’t know how false he sounds at times,

    Durkan is odds on favoutite to attempt to use a tv analogy which he will think is witty and the rest of us will look on in bewilderment

  • POL

    DUP leader Ian Paisley said the IRA must hand back any “ill-gotten gains” for Sinn Fein to enter government.

    Had to be another precondition tossed in somewhere.Wonder will the oul doc be decommissioning his illegally purchased and distributed weapons.Has he disbanded his paramilitary machine, ulster resistance.

  • Greenflag

    At this point ‘deja vu’ is ‘passe ‘

  • Poor old Durkan used to be funny- light relief to Farren back in the day. Now he’s just a bit sad.

  • POL

    why shouldn’t proceeds of bank robberies and various laundering operations be handed back? Support for a lawful society would seem to demand that.

  • POL

    pakman,

    I dont know of any bank robberies carried out by the Shinners maybe you could enlighten us.But its in the public domain that ulster resistance smuggled and have possession of illegal arms.Should they not be handed over? God knows we dont want to be doing business with a political party that have guns under the table.Strange how you missed that wee point in my post.

  • “I dont know of any bank robberies carried out by the Shinners maybe you could enlighten us”

    LOL!

  • Briso

    Reg thinks the DUP are being unrealistic.

  • POL

    LOL!

    Still waiting!! and you`re still avoiding the question about illegal arms and private armies.LOL.

  • Briso

    pakman:
    why shouldn’t proceeds of bank robberies and various laundering operations be handed back? Support for a lawful society would seem to demand that.

    Is that a deal-breaker for you pakman?

  • POL

    I didn’t think you were seriously accusing Dr Paisley of pruchasing illegal arms. If you were I suggest you think very hard about posting again until the police act on the information which you will no doubt be furnishing them with.

  • Briso

    personally no.

    But it would be a very large sweetener to allow policing and justice to be devolved.

  • joeCanuck

    The IRA carried out robberies. The UVF carried out robberies. The UDA carried out robberies. To expect any of them to hand the money back is a tad unrealistic. And why is the doc only concerned about one of these 3 groups?

  • Briso

    So you agree with Reg?

  • joeCanuck

    *yawn* because the unionist electorate (thankfully) do not vote for those associated to the UDA or UVF in sufficient numbers to get them around the executive table.

  • POL

    Well he did march them up to the top of the hill and marched them down again.Even wore the beret.
    Was he not a member of ulster resistance,did they not purchase illegal arms.
    Just think its a bit rich of the oul doc to be preaching to the rest of us about law and order when hes has his own wee indiscretions that he has`nt taken responsibilty for.

  • joeCanuck

    So Pakman

    Your point is what? It’s ok to steal and murder so long as great numbers don’t vote for you?
    “Yawn”

  • Briso

    I agree that being absolutist during a negotiation about stuff you are not bound to defend could be a ploy:

    Gerry: I’ll see your end to criminality and raise you Policing and Justice

    Ian: I’ll see your Policing and Justice and raise you your ill gotten gains

    Etc, etc…

  • Dread Cthulhu

    pakman: “why shouldn’t proceeds of bank robberies and various laundering operations be handed back? Support for a lawful society would seem to demand that. ”

    Does Dr. Reverand No actually believe there are accounting records somewhere, recording and tallying these amounts? Will he have the intellectual honesty to expect the same of Loyalism? Or, as I suspect, simply the latest retreat of the goal-posts?

  • POL

    Pakman

    And he is after all a time served criminal.

  • joeCanuck

    that’s such a predictable (and lame) come back I didn’t waste time addressing it first time around.

    But just for you, all criminality should be a bar to participation in the government of a lawful society. Unionist parties should be working to bring to an end all such activity. However, only in the case of the IRA is there a danger that their associated political party will form that a part of that government. Accordingly, and in the context of negotiations including the IRAs’ associates, it is right that focus at this moment should be on IRA criminality whilst making the point for slow learners that ALL criminals deserve the full weight of the law on their necks.

    Happy?

  • Briso

    Pakman,

    That’s ok then as I thought this could be a bit divisive within the DUP. Glad it’s just a ploy.

  • canwebanulstermanplease

    sure it’s been said before but isn’t it surreal that these 2 men, both with obvious connections to paramilitarism, are trying to determine our future?

    The reward for them: They get to be First and Deputy First Minister!

    lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

  • joeCanuck

    Pakman

    That’s a wonderful analysis.
    You actually believe that the DUP and UUP have never associated with paramilitaries.
    “Yawn”

  • POL

    Even davy ervine has said the dup is littered with uvf.And the oul doc has yet to come back and say otherwise.

  • joeCanuck

    thank you for your kind words.

    Had the UUP maintained their PUP link then I would have opposed their participation in any government as well.

    BTW I think you meant *Yawn* as opposed to “Yawn”.

  • joeCanuck

    I well know my quotation remarks smartass

  • Briso

    how do you know I’m not part of an elaborate yet cunning double bluff?

    Seriously though, how can it be right that a minister for Policing and Justice is part of a movement that is funded by monies obtained via criminality?

    If Gerry Kelly was minister of policing whilst the police investigation into the Northern Bank job was ongoing how could there be any confidence in either the minister or the investigation?

    In my view (I’m in Holywood not St Andrews) the “ill gotten gains” issue only becomes a key element of the game if Policing and Justice devolution is a live issue.

  • joeCanuck

    Unlike previous Unionist administrations, the Minister for Home Affairs (or equivalent) will not be able to instruct the Chief Constable as how to conduct operational affairs.

  • GrassyNoel

    “Ill gotten gains”…”*’LOL’*” (Whatever)

    Seeing as we’re on the subject of Ill-gotten gains, why doesn’t Britain just hand back the 6 counties then…and the Falklands… and Gibraltar while they’re at it…sheesh..grow up DUPers, fer f*ck’s sake

    He’s not going to do a deal, not now, not tomorrow, not on November 24, never.

    Best of luck to the next generation…

  • DerryTerry

    Pakman, if criminality is a bar to serving in a government are you saying anyone with a criminal conviction should be barred from office? Who would be left from the DUP?

  • joeCanuck

    Grassynoel

    You forgot a few.
    Anguilla, British Antarctic Territory, Bermuda, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Montserrat, St Helena and Dependencies (Ascension Island and Tristan da Cunha), Turk and Caicos Islands, Pitcairn Island, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands, Sovereign Base Areas on Cyprus.

  • Mayoman

    So what you’re saying pakman, is that as long as the party you vote for hides its associations with paramilataries in the back rooms of pubs and holy houses, then thats OK. But to be genuine enough to bring those assocations into the open would cost them your vote. Excuse me for finding that sort of morality deeply obnoxious.

  • tony clifton

    Pakman (comment16)

    Pakman you are 100% right, people do not vote in massive numbers for those associated with the UVF, I am assuming you mean the PUP. However those assosiated with the UVF (members and supporters) vote in high number for the DUP. How do you reconcile that?

  • tony clifton

    I might add that the DUP have several serving and many previous elected reps who were members of the UVF. The numbers are up for debate, but as some were convicted the fact undeniable.

  • Paul P

    Tony

    How do you know that those assosiated with the UVF (members and supporters) vote in high number for the DUP?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    pakman: “But just for you, all criminality should be a bar to participation in the government of a lawful society.”

    Aside from the fact that would like as not disqualify all the politicians, how do you rationalize Dr. Rev. No’s continued participation with his past association with the Ulster Resistance, among other?

  • joeCanuck

    Pakman has suddenly gone very quiet.
    Is the juvenile having second thoughts?

  • Gram

    In return for their ill gotten gains hopefully the SF will be asking for all the UDR/RUC/Special Branch/Army overtime to be returned to the finances of the new government of N.Ireland.

  • Briso

    Pakman:

    ‘how do you know I’m not part of an elaborate yet cunning double bluff?’

    Perhaps you are, Pakman, but if so, I doubt you’re in on it!! In fact, I doubt there is anyone in the DUP who is really sure what the voices in his head are telling the old Galapagos Turtle. Certainly not the ex-UUP superbrains.

  • aquifer

    And why wouldn’t the governments put proposals forward? They are the ones obliged to put the GFA through, not the parties whose interests lie in division and disagreement. The governments have to be prepared to call the bluff of the ‘no way but ours’ flag clubs and go straight to the people, who may take time out between shopping in Tescos and paying new property taxes to tell our wee politicians to go get a life, or a real job.