Bobby on the beat…

WHO’DA thunk (apart from Brian Rowan) that the man the police blame for the Northern Bank robbery would now be touring the statelet telling republicans to support the police? Speaking of the Northern job, the Garda Commissioner today revealed how the Irish police linked cash seized in the Irish Republic to the IRA’s £26.5 million raid – forensics and witnesses – although how they are “indicating” that “without doubt” is another question. Just as well the IRA has completely abandoned all crime in the Irish Republic, eh? Conroy’s obviously spinning a pre-talks line, but it’s all so mealy-mouthed it comes across as doubly unconvincing. Maybe he just doesn’t come across well on on a page.

  • I wish Mr Bobby Storey all the very best in his new found role.

    I am sure with all his experience he will bring a fresh perspective to the whole panarama of combating International terrorism as well as a pragmatic view on homegrown criminality!

    This transformation is all part of the process in which talented people utilse their skills and contribute to a just society in a positive way.

    A parallel role may be found for Jackie McDonald and i am sure there will be a few raised eyebrows when this revelation is made public.

    Frankie G gets an amount to soften the blow, so to speak, and that settles problems in South Antrim.

    Thomas Slab Murphy is allowed to retire gracefully in reflective mood.

    Although these and other consessions may be viewed in bad taste, they are crucial to finally draw the boundries between military criminality and civilian criminality.

    From now on crime is crime period!

    If Republicans hear from the lips of Bobby Storey to back law enforcement, then that must be a positive thing that will reflect in future co-operation.

  • The final decision on policing will rest with the Ard Fheis. It is the members who will decide our position on policing, nobody else!

  • joeCanuck

    Chris

    You know as well as the rest of us that it’s a done deal.

  • brendan,belfast

    the final decision on policing rests with our leader. it is only when he tells the rest of us what do that we follow with our heads bowed!

  • exuup

    . It is the members who will decide our position on policing, nobody else!

    Chris just in the way the members decided about surrending and decommissioning their weapons? Or when the members decided to accept partition and sign up to a british assembly in the north!!!

  • John East Belfast

    exuup

    “Chris just in the way the members decided about surrending and decommissioning their weapons? Or when the members decided to accept partition and sign up to a british assembly in the north!!! ”

    Tell me again why is it you are exuup …….??

  • arthur morgan

    Chris who are you trying to fool. As someome has already said the policing issue has been decided already and you know it. All the things that the Provos said they wouldnt do they have done the opposite. Ceasfire, Stormont, Decommissioning, Standing down the army structures and last but not least accepting the RUC. A complete surrender. Brits/Unionists have played a blinder, look what they have gained. Republican militarism split then finished, no bombs in Belfast or more importantly in London, the union safe, top provisionals protecting British soldiers on the streets of Belfast, Brits on the ground in former no go areas like South Armagh and Sinn Fein helping to run the show for them in Stormont.

  • exuup

    JEB “No guns, No Government” – Simply British – D Trimble – Weve Jumped , Now you Mr Adams – The RUC – Prisoner Releases – Terrorists in Government….

  • Billy

    Arthur Morgan

    “Accepting the RUC” – are you a spin doctor for Unionism?

    The RUC is gone (as are the B Specials, UDR and RIR, Army watchtowers and a large percentage of the British Army in NI). The PSNI is currently 20% Catholic and the 50 – 50 recruitment will remain in place until it is at least 33% Catholic.

    Catholics want a police force – we just wouldn’t accept a partisan 95% Protestant one – which we have successfully dumped. We wouldn’t accept the UDR (just another branch of the UVF/UDA/LVF) and, as you may have noticed on Friday, it’s gone and won’t ever be coming back.

    “Sinn Fein running the show” – I think you will find that Sinn Fein (+ the SDLP) will be ensuring that Catholics are not treated as 2nd class citizens (as they were during 50 years of Unionist discrimination).

    If the DUP don’t form an assembly, Unionism will face the Free State govt having a large and increasing say in the day to day running of NI.

    Unionists will also have to start paying their way instead of sponging (as Harold Wilson memorably said) off the UK govt.

    If you compare the situation that Unionists and Nationalists faced in 1969 with the situation they face today, it’s pretty clear that Nationalism is in a much stronger (and improving) situation while Unionism is the exact opposite.

  • lies, damned lies

    And so the finaly, inexorable sell out beckons, with Storey himself leading the charge. Hardly surprising given the number of Provo Brit spies that we know about, clearly only a tenth of the actual figure.
    Shame on you, traitors. Shame on you. You are spitting on Bobby Sands’s grave and true republicans will never, ever forgive you. You hand the Brits and the unionists victory on a scale they could never have imagined in their wildest dreams.
    Good luck in bringing back Stormont at that luxury hotel in St Andrews, lads. DISGRACEFUL.

  • Billy Boy

    Having Catholics heavily represented in our police force will lead to the same type of problems Iraq has. How do we know Bobby Storey and his type will not be intelligence gathering. The DUP should stand firm and not allow the PCNI to be infected by these people.

  • Rory

    Good point, Billy Boy. The rot set in when Catholics were allowed to vote. The next thing you know they’ll be looking for jobs as well. But at least you can be secure in the knowledge that they won’t be seeking to marry your sister.

  • Henry94

    the man the police blame for the Northern Bank robbery

    Have they charged him? What cops might mutter into their beer has no standing. What they can prove is all a democracy is interested in.

  • jerryp

    Billyboy, “PCNI”, an é sin téarma nua ?

  • DK

    “téarma nua” – does this mean “new term”. Blimey – is Gaelic actually that easy. Or should I say “isa éasya gealic”.

  • Peter Brown

    Fellow Ex UUP Isn’t it funny how JEB likes to ask that question but doesn’t comment on the answer? Maybe it speaks for itself….

  • circles

    Chris – unfortunately it is a done deal – there will be no discussion. If anyone disagrees the’ll be squeezed out – there are plenty ambitious wannabe shinners waiting in line take their place. The Ard Fheis will be a bit of a song and dance, but if Gerry says jump, the only response will be a collective “How high?”
    The party doesn’t decide. Cage 11 decides.

  • John East Belfast

    Peter Brown

    “Fellow Ex UUP Isn’t it funny how JEB likes to ask that question but doesn’t comment on the answer? Maybe it speaks for itself….”

    I think you are jumping ahead of yourself – I was in bed when he replied and I go to work early and only check in at lunch times.
    This is the first time I have seen it so if I think you need to wind your neck in.
    I try endeavour to answer any post addressed to me unless I think it is just going round in circles.

    As for exuup’s answer

    “JEB “No guns, No Government” – Simply British – D Trimble – Weve Jumped , Now you Mr Adams – The RUC – Prisoner Releases – Terrorists in Government….”

    – No guns no Government – that is exactly what we had and collapsed the process 3 times because of it.

    Simply British – yes awful but not something you leave the Party over

    Trimble – had his weaknesses but still best leader unionism has had post partition.

    “Weve Jumped , Now you Mr Adams” – called taking risks – but in hindsight that day with De Chastelain etc we were sold a pup – bad day but once again not something you leave the Party over

    “The RUC” – has been re-branded as the PSNI and many long serving officers have been given a deserved financial package.
    50/50 recruitment is clearly not working and will die off one day.
    I am not happy with a lot of things going on but I am not sure where to lay the blame for all that.

    “Prisoner Releases” – hard for us all to swallow but unless you thought the Provos were going to be beaten into a pulp then their prisoners being released was always going to be part of any ceasefire eventually. Under 50% remission they would all be out by now anyway and undoubtedly they will have been replaced by others but the grave yards would also have been further filled.

    “Terrorists in Government”
    You cant have it both ways – ie you cant also say to
    Chris Gaskin

    “Chris just in the way the members decided about surrending and decommissioning their weapons? Or when the members decided to accept partition and sign up to a british assembly in the north!!!”

    The latter statement betrays the reality – Militant Irish Republicanism totally failed in its objectives of causing the UK Govt to make a declaration of withdrawel from NI.
    Instead it has decided to pursue its objectives ultimately via peaceful and democratic means.

    The UUP recognised this and facilitated its transition via the Agreement while Paisley was still going on about Smashing Sinn Fein.

    That we got a few things wrong along the way – of course – it was going to be a long and difficlut process.

    But we did all the heavy lifting and we wouldnt be where we are today without Trimble, Empey et al and Pro Agreement Unionism.

    Peter – I am going back to work now and I know I will be working late and then I have to do taxi for my kids so if you dont hear from me you know why.

  • Peter Brown

    – No guns no Government – that is exactly what we had and collapsed the process 3 times because of it.

    I think you’ll find that if you stick to the facts (as set out in the 1998 Assembly election literature) we (as I was a member at the time and indeed an agent for that election) promised not to go into government at all until there was decommissioning not to go in and threaten to leave if there was no decommissioning so we did not keep our promises (compare Understanding thr Agreement to reality!)

    Under 50% remission they would all be out by now anyway

    That is quite simply a lie – anyone given a life sentence between 1990 and 1998 would almost certainly still be behind bars as average life sentences were 16 years even with remission and is indicative of the Nelsonian telescope to the blind eye attitude of the rump of pro agreement unionism

    The crunch for me was actually the PUP pact – I had difficulties with terrorists in government but terrorists in our own party was intolerable

    I’ll look forward to hearing from you on all these points….

  • John East Belfast

    Peter Brown

    “promised not to go into government at all until there was decommissioning not to go in and threaten to leave if there was no decommissioning so we did not keep our promises (compare Understanding thr Agreement to reality!)”

    at that stage of the process bon fides had to be tested and risks had to be taken. When the Provos didnt live up to their side of the deal the rug was pulled.

    Your hindsight is concentrating on all the negatives – not only did you not have the vision or foresight then to see where all this would lead us but now that we have got there and you are in the middle of it you still cant see it.

    “Under 50% remission they would all be out by now anyway

    That is quite simply a lie – anyone given a life sentence between 1990 and 1998 would almost certainly still be behind bars”

    ok maybe there would be up to 50 (at most) people still in jail playing snooker and pumping themselves up in the gymn.
    However how many more occupants would there be in Roselawn etc ?
    Not to mention the destroyed economy and further weakened Union.

    The end of this period was always going to mean Prisoner releases – the victims are going to have to rely on other justice – a Higher Justice if that is what you believe – however have a look at the “Living Proof” thread to see the hell most of these people are going through in the here and now.

    If all Unionism had played its part we would have undoubtedly received a more robust Agreement on many issues including Prisoner releases and decommissioning – however the DUP chose to stay on the outside and left the UUP to do all the work.

    “The crunch for me was actually the PUP pact”

    I opposed that too but I knew it wouldnt last and I wasnt going to leave the Party over it.

    Infact unless there is somewhere else to go or the Party has actually sold its soul to the devil then I am not one for quitting.

  • PeterBrown

    Bona fides did not have to be tested by breaking our word to our electorate as the DUP is about to illustrate hence where our electorate deserted us in droves. The simple fact is that despite agreeing to stay out of the referendum campaign the Party joined in and made promises then and in the assembly election campaign which followed which in some cases it couldn’t keep and in others it didn’t keep although it could have – any thoughts on the RUC has been saved for example? As for what we got in return the armed struggle was already coming to end so we paid a high price for something that was coming anyway so no Lord maginnis style Roselawn comments please – you have already demonstrated the weakness of you position by lying to bolster it which is ironically the root of the UUP’s current malaise

    As for the DUP leaving us in the lurch lets not forget who broke ranks – we were the ones who stepped out of line and went into talks before the agreed preconditions were met.

    As for the PUP pact that is when the Party did sell its soul to the devil – we wouldn’t sit in government with terrorists who were agthering intelligence but allowed active terrorists into our Party – no double standards there then? A terrorist is a terrorist no matter what their religion (the politics of the PUP is irrelevant here) and the ultimate irony was that we gained nothing as aresult of this debacle and lost what little moral credibility we had left.

    To return to the thread ironically after all my UUC meetings it is becoming increasingly clear that that the only political body more sheep like its in adulation of its Party leadership than the UUC is and will continue to be Ard Fheis – let’s see if the free thinkers in SF even reach 28%, although in fairness the punishment for not toeing the line is likely to be more severe than a dirty look from the blue rinse brigade that I used to get in the UUP

  • John East Belfast

    As feared we are just going round in circles now and we will just have to agree to disagree and let history judge the significance of Pro Agreement Unionism to the current state of affairs

    However I must respond to your

    “the armed struggle was already coming to end so we paid a high price for something that was coming anyway so no Lord maginnis style Roselawn comments please”

    I have heard this rediculous re-writing of history before and it has to be nailed.

    Yes many republicans recognised that their miltary campaign was not going to Unite Ireland but there were many others who believed it would still get the Brits Out.

    I agree with both but thankfully those who decided it was not worth it or maybe who even deemed it immoral won the upper hand. That debate is still going on within Republicanism to this very day with the last hurdle being support for the forces of Law and Order within a partitioned Northern Ireland.

    Anti Agreement Unionism doesnt seem to realise how far Republicanism has come, how much they have had to swallow and how difficult a job they have had to sell it to their electorate.

    Do you seriously think we would be here today without an Agreement ?

    As for them being a spent force come of it – two years after the first ceasefire in February 1996 they showed what they could still do in the centre of London. Just two years ago they conducted what was then the biggest bank robbery in the world and also broke into Special Branch HQ @ Castlereagh.
    If they were such a spent force then why was everyone still concerned about Decommissioning ?

    The fact is they were the most sophisticated terrorist organisation in the world and they had to be defeated on a number of fronts.

    They had to be kept as long as possible on ceasefire so that their ability to return to violence was dissapated.

    This is exactly what happened.

    The decision about the Union is now where it should be – the decision of our children and grandchildren – our inheritance to them will be that we can share this place and if it ever changes its sovereignty it will be with the consent of the majority who live here.

    Pro Agreement Unionism and Nationalism facilitated all this.

  • Peter Brown

    Aren’t you cherry picking JEB? Pick the one point you (think) you can answer and leave the rest because they’re too unpalatble to even attempt to swallow?

    “how difficult a job they have had to sell it to their electorate”

    Its been so difficult they’ve all but killed off the SDLP – the momentum was gone from the armed struggle – it was increasingly a stalemate with an unacceptable level of violence and losses on both sides which is why post ceasefires it never got fully up and running again. Both terrorists and security forces or more accurately securocrats no longer has the stomach for a long war and the price extracted for the end of violent republicanism could have been much higher if the UUP had simply kept its word as the DUP will probably demonstarte this week and hammer yet another nail into the UUP’s coffin…..

  • kensei

    “Both terrorists and security forces or more accurately securocrats no longer has the stomach for a long war and the price extracted for the end of violent republicanism could have been much higher if the UUP had simply kept its word as the DUP will probably demonstarte this week and hammer yet another nail into the UUP’s coffin…..”

    This simply isn’t even close to being true. You simply cannot have a huge number of IRA men in jail asking “What the hell did I go to jail for?” and expect the process to stick. Myopia sets in. At the beginning of the process, the thoughts of the prisoners were key to any moves.

    The DUP can appear tough because the UUP has done all the heavy lifting. The result of compromise is accepting things you don’t like. There si actually nothing new in what the DUP is asking.

  • Peter Brown

    Myopia sets in

    Couldn’t agree more but time to give JEB his rose tinted spectacles back because although there is nothing new in what the DUP is asking for they intend to hold out until they get it unlike the UUP and if they do the UUP will be further behind after the elction which is one of the DUP’s demands. The UUp didn’t do the heavy lifting and that is the problem…..

    You simply cannot have a huge number of IRA men in jail asking “What the hell did I go to jail for?” and expect the process to stick.

    That’s why they were unconditionally released