Rumour Mill: Senior Republican arrested in connection with shooting…

We hear a senior Republican has been arrested in connection with a punishment shooting at the weekend in West Belfast – though it has yet to be confirmed officially. The victim of the attack has since lost a limb, but, if the identity of the individual arrested is confirmed, the real significance may lie in its relationship to the proposed deadline of 24th November, since the person arrested appears to be a mainstream, rather than a dissident Republican. In which case, serious questions would certainly then arise.

Update: In this case, it would seem that the person in question is a Republican, but is not a member of the mainstream Republican movement.In which case, these questions do not immediately arise:

Was this ordered from the top in anticipation that the deal of the 24th is off, and with it all other bets? Or was it simply a case of an individual trying to keep a lid on a situation where, under the current terms of negotiations and in the effective absence of a police force, a theoretically gunless IRA no longer has the means to enforce order on local ‘miscreants’?

,

  • Clearly political policing.

  • Yokel

    This is neither shocking or surprising, nor indeed is it some conspiracy.

    It’s just how it is even though it shouldn’t be so. I do, however, look forward to the outrage of one group of posters and the conspiracy theories of another.

    I take it we can’t name said person whos been lifted?

  • DaithiO

    Here we go again.

    Mick I’m surprised that you posted a “rumour”.

    People should just keep opinion to themselves and wait until there’s something to comment about !

  • Yokel

    Daithi, lets just name who theyve lifted. That’ll cut the rumour.

  • Dec

    Agree with DaithiO. This all a bit breathless and atypical of Mick. Its not unreasonable to say we should wait until charges are brought (at least) before writing the deadlines obituary.

  • DaithiO

    Yokel,

    Being lifted doesn’t mean one is guilty of a crime.

    Thousands of Irish people know that the hard way.

  • Mick Fealty

    Daithi and Dec,

    Agree it may come over as breathless, but I’m not going public with a name I only have one source for. Time will sort it out, but that’s what’s being said for now. Will bring updates/corrections as soon as we have them.

  • Yokel

    DaithiO

    Boo hoo.

    God Paisley may not have the ashes yet but it seems many republicans wear sackcloth anyway to flaunt their persecution like a badge. He’s halfway there.

    So we don’t name who is lifted then, legal action and all that.

  • Professor Keynes

    This was published in last Thursday’s Andersonstown News, one day before the shooting:

    SQUINTER
    “They’re a tiny minority.”
    “Most of the kids about here are good kids.”
    “A tiny rump is destroying it for everybody else.”
    Time was Squinter subscribed to the community sector orthodoxy that those young people who are wrecking the quality of life for residents of West Belfast are a small and unrepresentative rump. The reality is, according to these multi-agency bromides, that most kids are indoors studying, listening to music, at the cinema, training with their local football club, or doing whatever it is that people of that age should be doing if mom or pop took the slightest interest in them.
    2.20pm on Saturday and Squinter is on his way to the bookies as usual (chinned, chinned, chinned and chinned, since you ask). At the Glen Road bus terminus – next to St Oliver Plunkett Primary School – there is on this sunny late-summer afternoon a crowd of perhaps 50 teenage clones and they’re surrounded by carefully-stacked pyramids of drink in cases and in plastic bags.
    Squinter has seen plenty of street drinking in his time, but he has to admit he’s never seen a crowd this size. What they were doing there in such numbers Squinter doesn’t profess to know. Perhaps they were going on a bus run. Maybe they were on a team-building exercise. Whatever the reason, it’s clear to Squinter that in places like Lenadoon, outdoor drinking and general scumbaggery is no longer a minority pursuit.
    Is it a majority pursuit? Almost certainly not, given the large number of youngsters who reside in the Lenadoon estate. But equally, the idea that outdoor drinking and associated mayhem is indulged in by a small minority must also now be seen as a fiction and anybody who continues to advance it is doing nothing more than whistling past the graveyard.
    The trouble is, as far as Squinter can see, is that in the large estates of West Belfast the unacceptable has become the mainstream. Just as some continue to argue that anti-social elements are a small minority, so some persist in believing that those responsible for it come from homes where…
    • The parent or parents are so busy drinking themselves that they don’t care or are too far gone to care
    • A single female parent is physically incapable of controlling a growing adolescent
    • The parent or parents are themselves estranged from the community and view complaints about their child’s behaviour as attacks on them
    Latterly, it has been Squinter’s experience that all too often none of these stereotypes apply, and that some of the most enthusiastic and vicious abusers of the community come from perfectly respectable homes. There’s a few teenagers that Squinter’s thinking about who have the top part of Lenadoon tortured. Having been brought up in that very area, Squinter has known their parents for virtually his entire life and they are among the most decent, honest and hard-working people that you’ll find in a week’s walk. And yet they know full well that their sons are throbbing boils on the neck of that community. Since they first became aware that there was a problem, not only have they failed to rein them in, but the teenagers’ behaviour has worsened immeasurably, until lately it’s common knowledge in the district that they have become involved in knife atttacks and robberies. Both of them still live at home.
    How come we’ve reached this pretty pass where good people are doing nothing? Well, chances are they tried to do something and failed; chances are they’re hoping that it’s just a phase and that their children will emerge from the other end well-adjusted, contributing members of society (and let’s just forget about the damage they’ve done in the interim). But there’s also a truth which Squinter has never heard discussed, and that is that householders feel much less threatened by roaming gangs of teenage thugs if they know that the hoods on their streets aren’t strangers, but their sons and their mates.
    The two Lenadoon hoods were at the Glen Road bus terminus on Saturday. While they were gulping down beer and pissing in people’s gardens at 2.30 in the pm, Squinter will bet good money that their mothers were tidying their beautifully-kept homes while their fathers were either at work or, like Squinter, watching the racing on TV. Where these two muchachos and their merry band of drinking partners were at midnight after an entire day of heavy drinking doesn’t even bear thinking about, quite frankly.
    As the father of a young son, Squinter knows that he needs to be careful – there but for the grace of God, and all that. The big guy can’t think past Gaelic sports at the moment, but there’s no guarantee that somewhere along the line he won’t turn mean or start running with a bad crowd. What is guaranteed, though, is that Squinter won’t sit on his hands and watch it happen.

  • Jacko

    I think it’s called laying the ground.

    “Whatever the reason, it’s clear to Squinter that in places like Lenadoon, outdoor drinking and general scumbaggery is no longer a minority pursuit.
    Is it a majority pursuit? Almost certainly not, given the large number of youngsters who reside in the Lenadoon estate.”

    It’s not a minority, nor is it a majority – so then it must be exactly half of all youngsters in the area.

  • circles

    and the relevance Prof K?

  • circles

    Jacko – obviously your winding us up! Squinter laying the ground for a shooting of a youngster! Catch yourself on.

  • Professor Keynes

    What, Circles? The relevance of a republican paper complaining about anti-social behaviour by teenagers in West Belfast the day before a teenager is shot by republicans for anti-social behaviour in West Belfast?

    I can’t imagine.

  • squinter fan

    LOL, Squinter may get arrested for crimes against journalism, but never, ever for shooting someone, or being anywhere near a gun!

  • Professor Keynes

    I’m aware of that – Squinter was never a member of the IRA, which somehow just makes the above item worse. The two teenagers he is writing about are clearly identifiable from this piece. What does he imagine the consequences of that will be? Well – that’s not for him to worry about, of course. He’s never picked up a gun.

  • circles

    I take it you’ve never read the andytown news before then. Almost every copy has an article on anti-social behaviour ya rocket.
    Talk about conspiracy theorists…..

    (by the way the last code I had was being18) – obviously slugger knows something about this all too!!!)

  • Professor Keynes

    I’m detecting a concerted effort by Circles to laugh this off. I’m glad he’s amused. I consider it to be horrifying. Is this ‘justice’ for young people in West Belfast? Public identification-by-apologist followed by a warning shot fired into someone’s leg?

  • dear diary

    “Squinter may get arrested for crimes against journalism, but never, ever for shooting someone, or being anywhere near a gun!”

    Oh come now, that’s hardly fair: he fires ‘mental’ (ha) RPGs at air hostesses with Ballymena accents and he gets a hard-on thinking that the Prod elderly of Ballyeaston might mistake him for a volunteer casing out the target of a ‘screamer’.

    Can we at least have a clue re. this arrested person? An initial?

  • kensei

    “I’m detecting a concerted effort by Circles to laugh this off. I’m glad he’s amused. I consider it to be horrifying. Is this ‘justice’ for young people in West Belfast? Public identification-by-apologist followed by a warning shot fired into someone’s leg? ”

    Identification? The whole point of the piece is that West Belfast is filled with these kind of hoods.

    You would have to be seriously crazy to suggest some kind of conspiracy here.

  • Rory

    Whatever his identity, I see the update now informs us that he is NOT a member of the Repoblican “mainstream” (Provisional, presumably). Cause for much disappointment all round I suppose and perhaps just a few eggy faces.

  • Professor Keynes

    If the whole point is that West Belfast is full of hoods, why go to such lengths to identify two particular individuals? Can you imagine how their family felt on reading this? Do you consider this to be responsible journalism? How useful of Squinter to point out where they hang around and when, where they live and that they still live with their parents.
    This was absolutely disgraceful. Real newspapers are sued for less.

  • Rory

    Can you imagine how their family felt on reading this?

    We can only hope, Professor, that they finally felt sufficiently motivated to take the two thuggish little bastards in hand and give them some lessons in responsibility to their parents and their community.

  • Cardboard Vox

    If this is Community Policing RFJ then where is the accussed rights to as fair trail. Remember you are presummed Innocent (regardless of what you have been accused of) until proven GuilTy. Where is the proof that the accused was guilty> When republicans were lifted by the police RUC / PSNI they squealed HUMAN RIGHT abuses. So is this now a case that no one else has any HUMAN RIGHTS other than republicans mainstream or otherwise.You would be better off taking your chances with the PSNI / Courts at least you will have all your limbs intact.The mindless thugd who carry out these punishment shootings on order arn’t doing any favours.

  • Maynard Keynes

    How do you know they are “thuggish little bastard”? Because Squinter said so?
    Is that an official verdict? I wonder what the children’s commissioner or the human rights commissioner might have to say about young people who are tried and convicted in the press?
    Or is justice only something that the Andersonstown News demands from others?
    I notice that Squinter won’t put his own name to these columns while pointing the ‘community’ finger at teenagers who have annoyed him. What a brave soldier.

  • DaithiO

    Mick Fealty… “In which case, these questions do not immediately arise: ”

    Nothing arose until you rose it !

    Another violent crime on the streets of West belfast, not exactly much meat on that as a news story and totally irrelevent to the wider picture in the 6 counties.

  • Maynard Keynes

    Yes, for God’s sake let’s not talk about anything that isn’t “relevant to the wider picture in the 6 counties”. Like justice for young people accused of anti-social behaviour, for example.

  • nmc

    Well said Rory. I believe this is punishment for robbing elderly people, if it were one of my kin being robbed I’d have been aiming about three feet higher.

  • kensei

    “If the whole point is that West Belfast is full of hoods, why go to such lengths to identify two particular individuals? Can you imagine how their family felt on reading this? Do you consider this to be responsible journalism? How useful of Squinter to point out where they hang around and when, where they live and that they still live with their parents.”

    They haven’t been named, or identified beyond “common knowledge they are involved in knofe attacks and robberies”. If that is, as he says, common knowledge, then it really isn’t anything new, is it? In fact, if that is the case it could be entirely unrelated to the article, unless you are a nut.

  • kensei

    “Yes, for God’s sake let’s not talk about anything that isn’t “relevant to the wider picture in the 6 counties”. Like justice for young people accused of anti-social behaviour, for example.”

    I believe fuly that these two men should have ben tried in court and then shot.

    It shouldn’t have happened, but it has f all to do with a newspaper article.

  • Elvis Parker

    What we need is the rule of law to operate in West Belfast. Their political representatives should support the police.
    Otherwise they condemn the area to limbo – no longer paramilitary policing but not yet proper policing

  • nmc

    Very true Elvis, but I think the time when SF drop into line on the policing issue is nigh, (almost right nigh). People, myself included, are fed up to the back teeth of running the gauntlet that is a trip to the shop on Friday/Saturday night.

    Don’t get me wrong, I agree with pretty much all of what SF determines was wrong with the police, but the changes are being made so it’s time to get on with it.

  • joeCanuck

    I agree nmc

    Sinn fein will sign up to policing just before Nov 24th.

  • dave

    You can almost feel the unionist disappointment at the fact that the attack was not linked to sinn fein.

  • Bem u s ed

    What a spectacularly shabby non-story. Even if a senior ‘mainstream’ republican had been arrested – so what? After Stormontgate will anyone (other than the usual loyalist suspects) attach any significance to republicans being arrested (rather than convicted) in relation to alleged criminal activity??

  • Professor JM Keynes

    You have to “almost feel” it – because there’s no evidence of it at all.

  • TAFKABO

    What greater example of the insanity of republican MOPEry than the concern shown over the fact that someone might be named as a senior republican, as opposed to the toal disregard shown towards a young man who had a limb removed as punishment,after being found guilty by a Kangaroo court.

    Way to get your priorities right lads, sure why wouldn’t we trust you people to be running Community justice schemes?

  • woodkerne

    I believe they should shoot more of the steeky, spidey,dirty,scummy,neanderthal,retarded,feral,hooding little winkers. They should start in Poleglass by clipping the younger ones (with a cap in the thigh) and stiffing the older ones (21+) 20 at a time. By the time the punishment sqaud gets to Andytown westbelfast hoods will either be meek as choirboys or have fcuked off to Downpatrick or Liverpool where they belong.

    Aye and all you bleeding heart liberals don’t even try to lecture people on the rights of these ghetto-scum kids because we have the right to live peacefuly in our homes and attempt to rear our children in a decent neighbourhood without these goons pulling it all apart.

  • woodkerne

    “Ghetto-S.C.U.M kids” in case you were wondering.

  • Rory

    If and when you do manage to get round to having a police service “acceptable to the whole community” as here in Mother England then no doubt you will, as the Professor demands, have
    “justice for young people accused of anti-social behaviour”.

    What is most unlikely however is that you will have justice for any of their victims. The police will either be (a) “engaged on other business” and/or (b) “unable to proceed without evidence” and unable to attempt to collect evidence because – go back to (a).

    How we on this side of the pond, in the absence of any attempt at efficient policing while the social fabric collapses around our ears, yearn for community justice.

  • Professor JM Keynes

    Funnily enough, I’m sure exactly the same things were said of the Woodkerne, albeit in an Elizabethan accent.

  • TAFKABO

    Aye, us bastard bleeding heart liberals and our whinging demands for a fair and accountable justice system, where everyone has a fair trial and right to appeal, that’s what the problem is here.
    Any loony lefty social working do-gooder who thinks that there might actually be a problem with taking a young man and removing one of his limbs , well they should be rounded up and shot, along with anyone else that dares to suggest our quaint medieval system of an eye for an eye and a leg for a car is perhaps not the right way to approach these issues.

    Is that what you’re telling us Rory?

  • Yokel

    Removing one of their limbs makes it harder for them to run after nicking things.

    I don’t like the hoods, i don’t like those that shoot the hoods but actually if the cops got their act together it’d be a perfect circle. Hoods get crippled, big lads sticking their chests out get lifted.

  • austin

    The palpable sense of disappointment amongst your usual neanderthal posters that this shooting was not in fact carried out by PIRA is painful to see.

    Thankfully PIRA does not carry out this type of horrendous attack any more. I do know however that a recent punishment shooting nearby in Lower Falls was carried out by the Official IRA although if your paper of choice is perhaps the Sunday World or the Observer(amongst others) then you wouldn’t have heard anything about this.

    Sadly punishment shootings remain very prevalent in loyalist areas.

    It’s reassurringly comforting to see the amount of horror and outrage generated as a result of a rumour falsely linking this shooting with PIRA in contrast to the stony silence and apathy that greets news of the many punishment shootings carried out by all other paramilitary groups except indeed the PIRA.

    What a pathetic and hypocritical clutching of straws by the usual Slugger suspects….

    I do hope that the same self-righteous level of condemnation will flow from the likes of Keynes and TAFK at the men of violence in loyalist and ‘sticky’ circles who are actually carrying out these shootings

  • Dread Cthulhu

    While I know the police are not fond of the “broken window” approach to policing, that sounds like what the area needs — catch and punish enough small fry you will find alot of the folks who commit the small crimes are the same fellows committing the big ones.

    Oddly enough, liberals aren’t all that fond of it, either, even though it has the benefit of actually working. The objections are different — the police don’t like it because its a lot of work and the liberals don’t like it because it actually punishes wrong-doers, but as a process — catch crooks, punish crime, etc. – it’s done wonders in some areas.

  • ciaran damery

    The IRA has been the edge of the struggle for Independence since the begining of the last century. Unionism is all about weakening the republican perspective. In fact in one general election their election slogan was “smash Sinn Féin”. One can only hope that some few orangies will see that the ‘picture’ is bigger than the most recent orange march, paisley’s bible thumping or the fact the IRA sure ain’t going away, brother. The paucity of unionist intellectuals and forsight is about to cause Unionism to implode.

  • TAFKABO

    I do hope that the same self-righteous level of condemnation will flow from the likes of Keynes and TAFK at the men of violence in loyalist and ‘sticky’ circles who are actually carrying out these shootings

    In my last post I never mentioned ny particular group, only barbaric injustices and the need for them to stop.
    If it’s selfrighteous to stand up and say that feudal barbarism has no place in any modern justice system, then I plead guilty to that particular charge.

    If I alluded to republicanism at all, it was in aknowledgement of those who come here to complain about the unfair treatment republicans recieve, in the form of words and allegations, whilst being compltely indifferent to the horrific treatment of a young (presumably catholic and nationalist) man.

    Either you believe in human rights for all, or you don’t believe in human rights at all.

    Dread

    I’m all for the broken window approach to community policing, provided there are the proper safeguards against abuses of power.

  • circles

    Ciaran – congratulations on winning once again the most thread-unrelated-post of the day!! Your rantings, whilst in no way positive or insightful do remind me as a republican, that just because someone else claims he’s one too doesn’t mean I have to agree with him. You’re bonkers fella!!

    Of course Prof K must still be smarting by having his conspiracy theory smashed to pieces by reality – which may explain the flight to the Justice for young people argument. Well then, at least something good came out your claims Prof. Although your claims that the squinter article makes those two kids instantly recognisable are off a similar brand of nonsense as your squinter-conspiracy. The only people who might recognise them know them already.

    If SF were on the Policing Authority, does anybody honestly believe that this incident would not have happened? Such incidents will persist in our society regardless of SF position on policing. To use this as some kind of argument that west Belfast could be a peaceful paradise if on those gum-dang Shinners would respect the sheriff is to be completely unaware of the society in which we live.

  • Frustrated Democrat

    CD the supertroll strikes again, his lickspittle republican ideas are straight out of the SF comic annual

  • Gallowglass

    Milton Keynes-“Funnily enough, I’m sure exactly the same things were said of the Woodkerne, albeit in an Elizabethan accent.”

    Tis true what ye say and it worked except that the wasted land was then planted with the dreggs of the English-Scottish borders. Still it brought 400 years of peace and prosperity didn’t it?

  • kensei

    “Oddly enough, liberals aren’t all that fond of it, either, even though it has the benefit of actually working. The objections are different—the police don’t like it because its a lot of work and the liberals don’t like it because it actually punishes wrong-doers, but as a process—catch crooks, punish crime, etc. – it’s done wonders in some areas.”

    I am a liberal and think broken windows theory is a spectacularly good idea, and we should invest heavily in it and using technology to cut down police form filling time so it can work more effectively.

  • frankie

    The workers party/official ira were named by the sdlp as being responsible for the latest attack. As mentioned above , they were also responsible for another punishment shooting a couple of weeks ago in the lower Falls area, close to one of their local shebeens.

    I think it would be very surprising if the Observer even gives it a mention, especially if the officials are involved. The Sunday World are even less likely to cover it, they tend to avoid anything’stickie’.

  • Chris Donnelly

    Oh dear. I sense many of our posters were robbed of their ‘Outraged In Bangor’ posts by Mick’s welcome clarification.

    As for the insinuation that the Andytown News were ‘in’ on this shooting, I can just say that it never ceases to amaze me the levels of paranoia that exist in some minds…

    The sad fact is, were it not for the false rumour that led Mick to post this thread, the story would not have even warranted a sentence on any of the threads on this site.

  • Garibaldy

    I suggest that some people posting here update their information about the attitudes of journalists in certain newspapers. Because they are literally ten years out of date. Their statements on who is responsible for this horrible incident are likewise inaccurate.

  • TAFKABO

    Chris.

    Are you really saying that the dismemberment of a young man, as part of some vigilante justice, would not merit a mention if not for the fact that there were some allegations about republicans being involved?

    What sort of society regards this kind of act as unworthy of debate?

  • Mr C V Burns

    t’s about time Adams and Co Ltd climbed down of their soap boxes, took their seats on the policing board and supported the PSNI. If the PSNI has been supported by Sinn Fein the events in West Belfast and New Lodge would not have happened. It is the duty of evey governent to do it’s utmost to protest it’s citizens. That is why you have police forces in every country in the world. Some may be good some may be bad, but they are the legal law enforcement of their particular country. Sinn Fein’s old war cry anytime the PSNI are involved in an incident in a nationalist area is brutality, brutality. Have you ever seen some opf these hate filled scumbags that the PSNI have to face on a regular bases. They are not a pretty sight. This applies to loyalists as well as republicans. Cry wolf once to often and then no-one belives you. Gerry in the interest of all consider that Sinn Fein need to take their seats on the policing board. We all want to try and move out of the abyss we find ourselves in and we need a police force who will do it’s utmost to protect it’s citizens we don’t want gun slinging vigilanties.

  • Mick Fealty

    Chris,

    “…were it not for the false rumour that led Mick to post this thread, the story would not have even warranted a sentence on any of the threads on this site”.

    I fear you are right. By the sounds of it, on this occasion, I got suckered punched, possibly as a deliberate diversionary tactic. Although I was careful to post it as an unconfired rumour, lessons have been learned.

    I would only add that ‘Outraged of Bangor’ should be as entitled to their say as ‘Outraged of New Lodge’. 😉

  • austin

    ‘I suggest that some people posting here update their information about the attitudes of journalists in certain newspapers. Because they are literally ten years out of date.’

    How can you be so literal on the date of the Road to Damascus conversions ten years ago, Garibaldi?

    I know 2 journalists well one of whom ‘writes’ for an extremely downmarket Sunday tabloid and the other who works on the local edition of a Sunday Broadsheet. Both have long subsribed with the philosophy espoused by the Official IRA and still do although they are more discreet in openly professing their views.

    Don’t get me wrong, they are quite entitled to hold these views but when their personal political opinions results in censorship of the news of violent punishment shootings , then this is surely wrong?

    You are also completely wrong in your assertion that the 2 recent shootings were not carried out by the Official IRA as will be proven in the nest few days when due process occurs.

    Garibaldi,it is illuminating to see how you will give so much benefit of the doubt to the Official IRA who were indeed the violent perpetrators of these attacks, whilst nearly knocking yourself down in the rush to blame PIRA for the attcks on the sole basis of the Pup sold to Mick.

  • circles

    Mr Burns – please explain your basis for saying “If the PSNI has been supported by Sinn Fein the events in West Belfast and New Lodge would not have happened.” as in my opinion it is a load of old tosh

  • anthony

    The workers party/officials are still involved in criminality, as well as punishment shootings.

    Its quite surprising that the Assetts Recovery boys haven’t went sniffing round a few Belfast hostelries.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    CVB: “t’s about time Adams and Co Ltd climbed down of their soap boxes, took their seats on the policing board and supported the PSNI. If the PSNI has been supported by Sinn Fein the events in West Belfast and New Lodge would not have happened. It is the duty of evey governent to do it’s utmost to protest it’s citizens. ”

    You mean such as unleashing B-Specials against civil rights marchers? That sort of “protesting” the citizens?

    CVB: “Sinn Fein’s old war cry anytime the PSNI are involved in an incident in a nationalist area is brutality, brutality. Have you ever seen some opf these hate filled scumbags that the PSNI have to face on a regular bases. They are not a pretty sight.”

    And this gives them leave to behave less professionally?

  • Rory

    I do hope all realise that if and when you finally get a cross-community supported police service the problems of disaffected youth, badly educated, brainwashed by film and tv to demand riches and unlimited sex NOW! as a right, yet hopeless, jobless (or prospects only as a burger slinger or car-wash attendant) will yet remain. So long as their anti-social antics are confined to estates or working class ghettoes, the authorities will not care (indeed that suits the overall strategy). Any that come out will be more rigourously pursued, but so long as they go back to creating misery “among their own” nothing will be done.

    It would be wishful to think that a new police force enlivened by those with “involvement in the community” might make a startling difference, but that would only happen if central policy were to permit it and that it is not the thinking extant among the master class on how to keep the peasnts quiet in the new millemium. The big picture now is all “corral and control”. What happens inside the corral, so long as it does not threaten profit interests or the comfort of the better-off, is not considered to be important enough to spend resources upon. The epoch of the untermenschen has arrived and I suspect that in the long run we are likely to see more rather than less of this type of incident.

    I should dearly love to be proved wrong, but the example and experience of mainland Britain leaves me gloomy.

  • andy

    Austin
    You’re right about the journalists (I presume I know the one you refer to as being local editor for a national broadsheet). I don’t know about the attacks thsmselves but I will wait to see.

    Incidentally I heard a book was coming out this year about the Official IRA by former Sunday Times journalist Scott Millar. I would be interested if anyone else had any news on this.

    Also I have to say that I think you were a bit harsh on my Italian Patriot friend Garibaldy – he didnt make any comment here until later on in the debate so I don’t think you could say he was “knocking himself down” etc.

    Adios

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Rory: “I do hope all realise that if and when you finally get a cross-community supported police service the problems of disaffected youth, badly educated, brainwashed by film and tv to demand riches and unlimited sex NOW! as a right, yet hopeless, jobless (or prospects only as a burger slinger or car-wash attendant) will yet remain. ”

    That depends. The next logical step would be community policing on the “cracked window” theory of enforcement — crack down on the little crimes and not only will the general quality of life of the majority go up, but, in the process, a number of the folks committing the larger crimes will be apprehended.

  • austin

    Clearly Mick sensed a scoop here but was fed duff information.

    Nonetheless the subsequent debate generated a lot of steam over the possible involvement of the Provos in this event.
    Watch out for even more desperate attempts to implicate the Provos in all sort of skullduggery as the November deadline approaches,

    I even hear that Panorama is about to unmask Martin McGuinness (if you excuse the expression) along with Harry Redknapp in the Football Bung probe tonight!

  • DaithiO

    Do you have any proof to back that up austin.

    etc. etc. etc.

    Should be a good programme tonight though.

  • Garibaldy

    Austin,

    I made only one comment on this thread, and did not blame, or even mention, the Provos in it.

    I know the date because a group of people terming themselves the ‘ORM’ emerged at that time. There was quite a bit of media coverage at the time, facilitated by some friends with influence in the media. Some of their members were expelled from The WP because, the Irish News said, of anti-social and sectarian activities. Also because, as their name suggests, they look to the past rather than the future. This group was subsequently involved in shootings in both Newry and Belfast, including several so-called punishment attacks. One it would seem recently. Several of their members in both places have been shot by the Provos, ironic given that at the election following their foundation they voted for PSF.

  • trev

    The criminal cartel that uses the workers party as a criminal front are not connected to the breakaway faction of the ORM.

    The dogs on the street are aware of the criminal activities of the workers party/official ira.

    Extortion, money lending and illegal practices within the licence trade are rife within the ‘party’.

  • austin

    Garibaldi,
    sorry but the emergence of the ORM is entirely irrelevant to the agendas of the journalists I and others have alluded to. They would have been entirely hostile to the ORM as these hacks are dyed in the wool Officials.

    I reiterate that the absence of any coverage of recent shootings carried out by OIRA is a reflection of the fact that they exert great influence within the newspapers that employs them.

    The earlier reference to the failure of the ARA to investigate the ownership of the many Public Houses within the control of OIRA is valid. Thus far, the only media mention of these establishments have been in the form of glowing reviews in PUB-SPY type articles

    -Funny that…

  • Garibaldy

    Austin,

    Check out http://www.suedenham.blogspot.com

    I think that’s the address, or try googleing sue denham blog if it’s not. You’ll find it interesting.

    What do you make of the fact that when the second Provo ceasefire was called I think it was (although possibly when the GFA was signed) the Observer sent someone to a bar owned by a member of the ‘ORM’ and frequented by them. And interviewed people there for their reaction from “nationalist Belfast”.

    Things change.

  • austin

    Garibaldi,
    I think the key in this is not the fact that the Observer (or rather perhaps that the Ireland Editor of same)sent someone on a vox pop mission but rather your apparent belief in the assertion that there is such a thing as an ORM bar.

    There is no such thing as an ORM bar in the same way as there is no such thing as an objective and impartial political analysis from the Irish edition of the Observer.

    This betrays your complete lack of knowledge of the delicate history of these issues in nationalist areas thus reinforcing my view that you no little of which you talk on this subject.

  • Garibaldy

    Austin,

    The bar in question, which was in the city centre, has been closed, largely because the said group is so tiny it couldn’t sustain it. Note I said a bar owned by a member of that group and frequented by them. I did not refer to it as an ‘ORM bar’ precisely because such a thing never existed.

    It’s quite clear that some people here have an agenda against certain newspapers, and against a political party. Which is totally their right. It has surfaced on a number of threads recently. However, the basis on which it is being pursued is flawed.

    To be clear, your assumptions about the journalists, whatever their past positions, are now inaccurate.

    Your suggestion that I don’t understand the delicate intricacies here is belied by the fact that I am better aware of them than you are. You began by falsely accusing me of attacking the Provos on this issue, and have since refused to see what the evidence makes clear.

    The accusations made here by some lack credibility and are being made for political reasons. Knowing them to be false, I would have ignored them, but if repeated often enough, people might believe them, so I decided to offer some actual evidence.

  • Dr Suess

    I read that Sue Denham blog Garibaldy.

    She should rename it to “when journalists betray a word”.

    “Some (not all )even ALOUD themselves to be registered as police informants”

  • It’s Dr. Seuss

  • derek

    garibaldy

    The workers Party are heavily involved in criminality and other rackets.

    Their president, comrade Garland is a criminal who made millions selling forged dollars from North Korea.

    The proceeds of this illegal activity has gone into the purchase of bars in and around Belfast.

    If you like, i will give you a list of workers party/oira bars

  • watchingandlistening

    Andytown News columnist Squinter on this story – which seems to chime with a lot of what was said already. Barely a whisper in the local press – wonder who fed Mick F the duff info, and why?

    Enjoy:

    Whodunnit? Oh, that’s a real pity!

    Da word on da street is that it was the Hickory Dicks who shot Conor Weldon on Friday night/Saturday morning, which probably goes a long way to explaining just why it is that young Conor hasn’t become a media cause celebre.
    There are those in the Irish and British meeja who have, ah, let’s see now… what’s the best way to put this? An affinity – yes, that’ll do – with that faction of the republican family which spawned Republican Clubs, Ranger Best, Aldershot, package holidays to North Korea, the Workers’ Party, Democratic Left – and then took a sharp right (or was it left?) and defected to the Labour Party.
    Strangely enough, even with the number of journalists around with impeccable Sticky sources and all, there were no breathless inside stories in the papers of whodunnit and why; no colourful stories about the gunman’s past, complete with nicknames, love-life details and quotes from pals; no indignant lectures about the repercussions for the peace process; no scrums outside the victim’s house; no rounding up the usual unionist suspects to sound off; no thundering editorials.
    Early rumours that a well-known mainstream republican had been arrested led certain bloggers to wet themselves online with excitement, but alas, excitement soon turned to mere disappointment then withered to total indifference.
    Now what was that teenager’s name again…?

    As for the last bit – it wasn’t that long ago when unionist politicians could go on TV and name each and every victim of a (prov) republican punishment squad.

    The silence on this from them, and the hacks mentioned elsewhere in this thread speaks volumes.

  • stephen

    The Irish News, in an article yesterday relating to the punishment shooting of Conor Weldon, said that it was the ‘first punishment attack in West Belfast for several months’,

    Which is strange when they printed a news piece a few weeks ago, about another workers party punishment shooting on a young man in the lower Falls area.

  • austin

    ‘To be clear, your assumptions about the journalists, whatever their past positions, are now inaccurate.’

    Garibaldi,
    I am sure I will be proven wrong about these journalists on Sunday when I will read detailed reports in the Sunday World and Observer on the implications for those involved in the resumption of punishment shooting in nationalist areas.

    Won’t I?

  • Garibaldy

    For anyone who’s interested, this was posted on another thread, and is relevant to this one

    “Grasseynoel,

    If you are really interested in who shot the leg off a young lad.. go see the very senior member of the Provos in the Ballymurphy area related through marrige to a former communist and has the same initials as a type of sexual preference , he had a major row with the victim and told him in no uncertain terms that he would be dealt with..

    The top Provo then arranged for someone who flits between CIRA and the SUPER-STICKS to blast his leg off.

    *** IS THAT ENOUGH INFO FOR YOU NOEL *** ”

    Posted by The News