Political Correctness gone mad…?

Thanks to David Vance for alerting us to the case of the Celtic goalkeeper who is being spoken to for ‘crossing himself’ before a game. In the eyes of some, this is an incitement to violence. David suggests that though in the charged atmosphere some approach from the SFA might have been appropriate, but the police have no business getting involved. The BBC report however notes that he previously played the Rangers crowd and that he had “provoked alarm and crowd trouble” which constituted a breach of the peace back on 12th February this year.

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  • Pete Baker

    Thanks to David Vance for alerting us, Mick? *ahem*

    No offense to David… but…

  • Chris Donnelly

    Mick

    This was mentioned on BBC Radio Ulster this morning, but the Scottish commentator interviewed noted that there weren’t any specific details of the “other hand gestures” which, collectively, brought about this warning.

    Clarity on that one would be welcome.

    The absence of any video footage on this one leaves us guessing about the circumstances. As several commentators have pointed out throughout the day on various programmes, numerous Rangers players have made the sign of the cross before and during matches in recent years, without provoking comment.

    That is, with the exception of Mikel Arteta, who was reputedly warned against repeating the act by somebody within the club!

  • Garibaldy

    There is an explanation from the Scottish prosecution on the thread Pete has linked

  • Chris Donnelly

    Ta G and Mick

    It would appear the ‘come on’ gesture was the incitement then. A pity the Crown Office let this run for so long without clarification.

  • Mick Fealty

    Okay Pete, been on holiday too long… I hit the ground running tomorrow, all things permitting. Promise! I do think David’s point about the need for football to sort it’s little local difficulities out without such recourse to the police is a line worthy of discussion though…

  • Donnacha

    Has there been any evidence of any other gestures? It’s just that I have heard of no video or witness evidence to the police in this case apart from the Rangers fans’ outrage at blatant Catholicism.

  • Pete Baker

    Mick

    David’s viewpoint is, indeed, worth noting.. But it’s also worth noting that Fair Deal ran with the story, and got a lot of interesting comments, on Saturday.

  • bob

    There were other gestures but it was the sign of the cross that offended them as they said below

    “I didn’t see the incident myself, but I was aware of a commotion behind the goal and many fans of the supporters bus saw Boruc cross himself and were angered by it, I find it difficult to believe that he didn’tknow what he was doing.”

    John McMillan, Rangers supporters federation

  • Kenny

    Chris

    When Marco Negri was top scorer for Rangers in the 90’s, he (as an Italian) crossed himself when he came on.

    He was asked from within the club to stop this as it upset the fans (his own fans).

    I find the current behaviour pathetic as Rangers now have a Catholic manager and several Catholic players.

    To be fair, quite a few comments from Rangers supporters on the bulletin boards feel that this has embarassed their club and the SPL.

    I think the Scottish authorities have left them selves open here and are trying to bail themselves out with these mysterious “other gestures” by Boroc that have appeared from nowhere.

    A lot of players in the EPL cross themselves (JF Hasselbank, Henri, Van Nistelrooy did, Ronaldo). So if any of these players play against Rangers and cross themselves – will they be prosecuted and, if not why not?.

  • Donnacha

    Well, if it means that no one is allowed to cross themselves at a Rangers match, it should be a doddle keeping the Gers out of European competition then. Although they’re doing a pretty good job of that on their own….

  • peter fallow

    Another example of live by the, die by the. republicans became hysterical at Linfield / Rangers / NI matches over much less. Yet another case of flagrat hypcocrisy.

  • roy keane

    We all know the world would be a better place without the Billy Boys “up to our necks in Fenian blood”.

    Let’s face it. Rangers, Linfield and their ilk do not belong in polite society.

    God bless Pope John Paul 11. Up Celtic.

  • billy write

    http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1859991,00.html

    Here is the way the cops think. Northern Ireland should not have a team until all the Protestant Boys apologise and Rangers is disbanded. The anti Catholic sectarianism that Rangers, the PSNI and their Jockland equivalents and Northern Ireland lager louts represent have no place in the modern world.

  • Kenny

    Peter Fallow

    That’s right – Rangers and Linfield didn’t have a no Catholics policy for over 50 years and encourage the singing of songs such as the Billy Boys and the booing of Catholic and coloured players.

    They also tolerated (to put it mildly) the banners, flags, chants etc celebrating “loyalist” terrorists.

    The IFA are now cleaning up their act but for many years actively encouraged Windsor Park to be a cold house for Catholics – the booing of Catholic players, “loyalist” flags, chants etc.

    Of course, that is totally balanced out by a single Catholic player daring to bless himself.

    If it had been a Man Utd player or Arsenal player – do you think the Rangers “fans” would have been so offended – somehow I doubt it.

    David Murray is trying to move Rangers forward and has most of the fans behind him. Unfortunately, this just shows that there is still a bigotted minority incapable of doing so.

  • Dr Stangelove

    Peter Fallow – “republicans became hysterical at Linfield / Rangers / NI matches over much less.”

    Are you referring to republicans who have been in the home supporters end for these matches ?

    Why not give us some examples Peter so we can all judge on the pettiness of the complaints.

  • Peking

    Donegal Celtic is the only team playing senior football in the Irish league at the moment that is operating a policy of having players from only one side of the religious divide.

  • Anna Dale

    Kenny

    “Rangers and Linfield didn’t have a no Catholics policy for over 50 years and encourage the singing of songs such as the Billy Boys and the booing of Catholic and coloured players.”

    They *encouraged* the singing of the Billy Boys and sectarian and racist booing?

    “They also tolerated (to put it mildly) the banners, flags, chants etc celebrating “loyalist” terrorists.”

    Why insert “mildly” are you implying again that they encouraged it

    “The IFA are now cleaning up their act but for many years actively encouraged Windsor Park to be a cold house for Catholics – the booing of Catholic players, “loyalist” flags, chants etc.”

    The IFA *actively encouraged* etc etc?

    Are you not confusing your “encouraged”s with your “tolerated”s here?

    “Of course, that is totally balanced out by a single Catholic player daring to bless himself.”

    As I said on a previous thread, if it was an innocent expression of his private faith I don’t see what the problem is.

    “If it had been a Man Utd player or Arsenal player – do you think the Rangers “fans” would have been so offended – somehow I doubt it.”

    Unfortunately some would say they were *offended*- that’s the nature of the beast that is Old Firm football. Rangers and Celtic are not supported primarily for the quality of their football.

    “David Murray is trying to move Rangers forward and has most of the fans behind him.”

    I’d question that word “most”. Check some of the Rangers internet forums. I think he’s trying to pull a helluva lot of them very unwillingly, kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.

  • GPJ

    Peking

    You cannot justify that statement with an example of policy or a personal statement which states that DC will only field players from one community.

    Your attempt to single out this team as sectarian, is disgraceful, catch a grip.

  • Occasional Commentator

       In the eyes of some, this is an incitement to violence.

    Maybe the crowd such have been charged, not the player. Surely they are the un-PC ones by being violent towards somebody because of their religion?

    PS: I am totally ignorant of the specifics of this particular case, and am not commenting on this case per se.

  • Peking

    GPJ
    It is fully justified by the irrefutable fact that Donegal Celtic have only non-Protestant players on their books. If that is not sectarian then what is.

  • Occasional Commentator

    Peking,
    Given the large number of football teams across the Republic, and the fact that the vast majority of the population are (nominally) Catholic, a statistician would be surprised if every team did have a Protestant.

  • Peking

    Occasional Commentator

    A statistician would first have checked and found out that Donegal Celtic is in fact a West Belfast team that plays in the Northern Ireland league.

    GPJ
    Policy is as policy does.

  • Occasional Commentator

    Peking,

    Doh! You got me there

    I still think that this is baseless:
      It is fully justified by the irrefutable fact that Donegal Celtic have only non-Protestant players on their books. If that is not sectarian then what is.

    If their catchment area is overwhelmingly Catholic then choosing 11 or so players from that area at random will still quite possibly result in all-Catholics. Maybe it isn’t DC who are being sectarian, but Protestants simply aren’t interested in joining?

    I’m not familiar with the club obviously, but to discuss the nature of the club you will need better evidence that the grossly simplistic abuse of statistics you have engaged in. It may well be sectarian (give or take some of the daft definitions of sectarian we’ve seen on this site), but the above is quite simply not evidence of any sectarianism.

  • Peking

    Occasional Commentator

    The arguement of single identity catchment area was never allowed for Linfield, Glentoran, Portadown, Glenavon, Lisburn Distillery etc. Why should it only apply to Donegal Celtic?

  • Occasional Commentator

    Peking,
    I never made such an argument about those clubs. I’m not denying that any of those club, DC included, may well be sectarian. I’m just saying I want some actual evidence.

    Few of them would have black players, does that make them racist? No, but if they were in the KKK also they would be racist. If, however, they instead held charity matches to raise money for Africa they wouldn’t be racist.

  • Billy Boyz

    Catholics have no song as filthy in its sectarianism as The Billy Boys,named after an infamous gang of Protestant thugs from the 1930s. Most Loyalist terrorists – a broad Unionist Church – support Rangers. These are the thugs who have stopped and continue to stop Irish, Scottish and Polish Catholics practicing their religion. During World War 2, when the Luftwaffe attacked Glasgow, the Polish navy defended it when Big Ian Paisley was holed up in a Welsh “seminary”. Disband Rangers and the sectarian Freemason run police force of Scotland.

    Not an ounce, not a bullet.

  • Peking

    Occasional Commentator
    You completely miss my point. All of the other clubs I mention are sited in Protestant areas but were continually lambasted, especially Linfield, for not having catholic players. All of those clubs have now mixed teams.
    Why should Donegal Celtic not be forced to do the same. That they happen to be sited in a catholic area should be no more a defence for them than it was for the other teams.

  • james

    Loughgall have never fielded a catholic player

  • Mick Fealty

    POI:

    The first Catholic to play for Linfield that I ever knew of transfered from Belfast Celtic in the early forties and was called Mick McWilliams. For the record, his recollection (taken from ‘Paradise Lost and Found’) was that Windsor Park was an easier place to play than Celtic Park. There were three Catholics on the team that won the Irish Cup in 1945 and 46.

    Now can I ask that people do a little bit of research before they make their comments on Slugger? Whatever the intention behind the argument, if it turns out that your ‘facts’ are so easily falsifiable, then your overall argument instantly loses credibility.

  • BarringtonBlue

    DC do have Protestants on their team, I know of one and his father was the Secretary of my old Linfield supporters club.

    As I’ve stated before Linfield NEVER had a “no-Catholic” policy, there have been many Catholics who have played for the Blues and most have went on to become legends. During the troubles it was impossible for catholics to play for the Blues because of the pressure from their own community, the first local Catholic to play for the Blues since the early 60’s was attacked and beaten up in his own home town, because he had signed for the Blues, a player in the present squad, when he first signed for the Blues had his house windows broken by local hoods.

  • james orr

    “…the sectarian Freemason run police force of Scotland…”

    You forgot about the Freemason Scottish referees who are all Rangers fans too. (this statement © Paulo Di Canio)

  • Anna Dale

    james orr

    I think (hope) Billyboyz little piece was an attempt at parody..

    These two lines gave it away for me:

    “Most Loyalist terrorists – a broad Unionist Church – support Rangers.”

    and then finishing with the statement that has absolutely nothing whatsover to do with supporting terrorism…

    “Not an ounce, not a bullet.”!!!!

    Classic stuff!