Seawright was one of our members- UVF

The UVF, in a new publication listing members killed during the conflict, has claimed the former unionist politician, George Seawright, as one of their members. The Belfast councillor, who had been expelled from the DUP for making sectarian comments, came to prominence due to a number of controversial remarks he made in the 1980s, including one in which he suggested that Belfast City Council should purchase an incinerator “and burn Roman catholics and their priests.” Seawright also caused much furore in the nationalist community when, armed with a gun, he climbed onto the roof of Whiterock Leisure Centre in west Belfast and took down the Irish National flag. George Seawright was killed by the IPLO in 1987. His wife, Elizabeth, served for a while as councillor in Belfast following his killing, before retiring from the political scene. David Ervine discussed Seawright on Talkback today.

  • BH

    The only worthwhile thing the IPLO ever did.

  • Miss Fitz

    As interesting as this was David Ervine’s performance on Talkback. He is pissed off it seems with the media focus on his UUP association, and its less than equal focus on DUP/UVF linkages.

    He was short, curt, and well annoyed by the whole thing.

    Pity, cos Tufty is one of the more sane and reasonable among them. Worth a listen if you’re interested in nuances

  • pete brown

    Surely you mean UDA/DUP links Miss Fitz?

    Once is an acident but two blatant mistruths on consecutive nights is pure careless….

    I know you are only a Southern outsider looking in at British affairs but please try to get your facts right……..

  • frank

    His brother, David Seawright, was active in the NF, orange order and UVF in Scotland.

  • CS Parnell

    “British” affairs? Don’t they take place on Britain – ie that other island? 🙂

    Seawright was an obnoxious piece of work. I used to have a book of cartoons from Searchlight where he was mocked mercilessly. These things aren’t so funny after the person mentioned has been murdered though.

    And, yes, it was a murder. You cannot complain about state sponsored death squads and then endorse privatised ones, BH.

  • Cahal

    “The only worthwhile thing the IPLO ever did. ”

    Nobody should be executed.

    “Pity, cos Tufty is one of the more sane and reasonable among them.”

    I have to disagree. “Ervine was imprisoned in Long Kesh in 1974 while an active member of the UVF, after being arrested driving a car bomb to its presumed target of a pub frequented by Catholic civilians.” Wiki.

    If he had been successful would you still think he is ‘sane and reasonable’.

    “I know you are only a Southern outsider looking in at British affairs but please try to get your facts right…….. ”

    Either you forgot the smiley face after that or you are being a ……..

  • Tony Clifton

    Cahal people are allowed to change even Ervine, at least he aknowledged his crime and paid for it (a full sentence), I think sane and reasonable is a fair definition of the present day moustachiod one.

    I think it is interesting that people are concentrating on the UUP/PUP angle still, especially given that this was a DUP councillor (and there are others still) who was in the UVF. He was only expelled after he was caught, even though they expelled him he would have been selected bigoted views and all.

  • Tony Clifton

    Why would it block out b*i*g*o*t*e*d ?

  • Belfast Gonzo

    It was getting overused.

    We’re censoring ‘the’ next, so get thinking.

  • tra g

    Check out this website

    therealdavecamp.blogspot.com

    It’s about Congresssman Dave Camp nicknamed ‘Duplicitous Dave’
    ‘This site is dedicated to Michigan’s 4th District Congressman Dave Camp, who has deftly managed to fly under the media radar and claim to be a “moderate” while managing to champion an extreme agenda. “He’s a pretty personable guy,” most folks agree, but his extreme agenda is the exact opposite of what he says.
    Camp can say what he wants in eloquently manufactured prose, but it is still a pack of lies.’

    This reminds me of someone closer to home but I just can’t think who……

  • The Devil

    words like B*I*G*O*T*E*D and S*C*U*M are blocked incase Shinner O’Fool get sued

    BTW as for the IPLO executing the bold George, the funny thing was he had a secret meeting with them, well one in particular who now runs a drug gang in Dublin and Spain at Troopers lane or troopers road near Carrickfergus

  • Greenflag

    ‘The UVF, in a new publication listing members killed during the conflict, has claimed the former unionist politician, George Seawright, as one of their members. ‘

    Seawright was a politically naive gobaloon . Had he lived long enough he might even have been ‘cured’ like Ervine . Who knows what provoked him to make the comments he did ? I can imagine many relatives of the victims of IRA bombings having similar thoughts as Seawright .

    His murder was not justified. If pulling down an Irish Tricolour from a community centre is all he’s guilty of then a few days behind bars would have been enough .

  • Be mu sed

    Seawright was an arse of the first order. In many ways (like a lot of the twats murdered by republicans) he’d have been more use to them (for propoganda purposes) left alive.

  • realist

    From Wikipedia-
    ‘Martin Dillon alleged in his book “The Dirty War that Seawright met with representatives of the Irish People’s Liberation Organisation(IPLO) in the Europa Hotel, after being informed by the RUC that he was on an IPLO hit list. It was alleged that during the meeting, Seawright agreed to provide low level information to the IPLO in exchange for his safety.’
    More Dillin fiction or any truth in this, I wonder?

  • Miss Fitz

    Pete Brown

    Thank you so kindly for your comments. I take it then you have listened to the show? Just to make sure I wasnt delusional, I listened again, and David Ervine clearly, very clearly made references to UVF/DUP relationships. He was obviously being sarcastic in much of this, but the reason I posted here was to urge people to listen to his voice and the resonances within.

    I assume Pete, you are a sock puppet, working anonymously, so to speak.

    Well, I hope you have a nice day

  • na

    Miss Fitz,

    Consider yourself warned (by Pete B)

    And the rest of us can consider ourselves lucky he didn’t make us endure a series of Russian doll Pete B posts to prove his point, whatever that was. But I think he called you a habitual liar that has no place talking about the north.

    You should just tell him to feck off.

  • ciaran damery

    Seawright? We are well rid of that orange trash. But speaking of orange trash listen here to the wan about Pro-revisionist anti Irish sean O’Callaghan. “Message
    merle haggard
    Politico

    Joined: 18 Nov 2005
    Posts: 3009

    Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: Unionist advisor Sean OCallaghan tied up by burgulars

    ——————————————————————————–

    According to report in todays Daily Ireland long time associate of Kerry TD Martin Ferris , and infamous informer Sean OCallaghan ended up tied up to a chair after a spot of boozing with 2 men he encountered in a gay bar and invited back for a drink turned ugly .

    IRA informer Sean O’Callaghan was tied up by two men he met in a gay pub, and held at knifepoint while they ransacked the house he was meant to be looking after, a court heard yesterday.
    The former IRA man had invited the pair back to the home he was looking after for his friend, author Ruth Dudley Edwards, following an evening drinking with them in a nearby gay pub.

    OCallaghan claimed he had went to the bar “only because it was the nearest”, which to many would seem difficult to believe but as the man has such a reputation for telling the truth he surely deserves the benefit of the doubt . However one of the burgulars in court tells a different story One of the men, Yousef Samhan (26), was caught by police. He denied robbery, telling the court he had gone back for a bondage session with O’Callaghan, and claiming the IRA man-turned supergrass had asked to be tied up, but he was convicted by the jury.

    The report goes on to say

    Isleworth Crown Court heard how O’Callaghan, who has published his autobiography The Informer, and has refused to take up a new identity despite being wanted by the IRA, had been house sitting at the property in Pope’s Lane, Ealing, in September last year.
    He decided to go to the pub and ended up at gay bar West Five. He invited Samhan and another man back to the house for another drink, but once there they attacked him, said Stephanie Dodd, prosecuting.
    She told the court: “Mr O’Callaghan was tied to a red kitchen chair with electrical flex, threatened with a large kitchen knife and watched helplessly as the men ransacked the house and made off with a computer, jewellery, credit cards and cash.”
    They were seen leaving on a scooter carrying two large plastic carriers and went on to use the credit cards at two service stations.
    Father-of-two Samhan was recognised by police on CCTV and his finger prints were found at the house.
    The other man has not been caught.
    Samhan eventually gave himself up and was arrested, but he denied taking part in the robbery, saying it must have happened after he left.
    When the case came to trial, he told the court he and Callaghan had been involved in a gay bondage session and said that the IRA double killer had asked to be tied up.
    However, the jury took less than half an hour to find Samhan, of Newstead Court, Byron Way, Northolt, guilty of robbery on September 6 last year.
    He admitted three charges of obtaining goods by deception with the stolen credit cards.
    Jailing him for five and a half years, Judge Richard McGregor-Johnson told him he was lucky not to be facing an indeterminate sentence of either life or for public protection.
    He said: “You have been convicted of an extremely serious offence and only lately have you admitted the accuracy of the prosecution case and the fact you were guilty of it.
    “You were invited to this house by Mr O’Callaghan. You shared a drink together at the pub and at the house, and then you took advantage of him.
    “He was knocked to the floor, held, threatened by you at knifepoint and then tied up, and having achieved that, you stole property from the house.
    “It is correct that no serious injuries were caused, but it must have been an extremely frightening experience, especially involving the threat of a knife and the fact he was tied up.”
    Earlier defence counsel Joanne Cochrane said Samhan had been in custody since his arrest and had taken advantage of various courses and become drug free, adding that all his offending is born of an addiction to hard drugs and alcohol.
    Police said that the most upsetting aspect for the home-owner and published author Ruth Dudley Edwards, was the loss of her computer on which she had been working. It was never recovered” Well I’ll be..? And I laughed!

  • na

    I must say sorry, my above post was wrong. I thought Mr Baker was giving Ms Fitz a hard time.

    He wasn’t. Sorry Mr Baker, I’m occasionally hard of reading.

  • Miss Fitz

    You were close Na, and that may be the intention. It is indeed a Pete B, but not the ‘real’ Pete B, hence my sock puppet remark.

    I would be quite upset to be called a habitual liar. In fairness, I posted an article from the Blanket last might, and although I had read it and researched the author, when I posted I seemed to go on auto pilot and once I had written Blanket, I wrote Anthony McIntyre.

    Silly, but I apologised and corrected in the second post.

    All I did today was record faithfully what David Irvine said. I have never been a member of the UDA or UVF, ,so I can only quote what this good man is saying.

    Anyway, the bottom line is that there is one person out there who likes to give me a hard time, so I just try to put up with him/her/it

  • wee jeffrey

    ‘I must say sorry, my above post was wrong. I thought Mr Baker was giving Ms Fitz a hard time.

    He wasn’t. Sorry Mr Baker, I’m occasionally hard of reading’

    na, na, na, na, na,-na -If u get my drift

  • Miss Fitz

    wee jeffrey

    Mr Baker wasnt, but Mr Brown was, and the confusion was deliberate!

    Anyway, there are better and more succesful ways of winning my attention,,,,,,,,,

  • wee jeffrey

    all this angst and pain at Miss Fitz’s suffering is all very laudable (we feel your pain, luv) but any chance of returning to the subject matter of the Thread?

  • Rory

    Whether or not Seawright was a member of the UVF matters little as, since his demise, he is no longer a member of the human race.

    There were some who, during his time among the living and, perhaps because of the dreary contribution he made to life while living, doubted that he even qualified for that dubious classification of humanity.

    I did not share this opinion. He lived among us and was a product of his time and place and deserved a kinder, more loving mentoring. He certainly deserved shooting as much as any man does that plies in the trade of murder but to be killed by the IPLO really was a final disgraceful ignominy albeit having a certain irony.

    Still and all it could have been worse – imagine if the IPLO had merely wounded him and he had recovered and then retired from the murder scene – it would not look very good on your C.V. in the “Reasons for leaving last job” box to write “frightened out by an insignificantly pretentious group of confused pseudo republican/trotskyite dodgers” would it?

    David Ervine is also a product of his time and place and seems to me to be a man who is really trying to make some sense of it. The “sense” that he arrives at at any given juncture will no doubt conflict but the man does seem to to really care for the community from which he springs and to be willing to challenge his own thinking and I am so glad that any misplaced shot of mine did not strike him.

  • Dr Strangelove

    That is the first I have heard about the O’Callaghan tryst. It is ironic, given the fact that I live quite close to Isleworth courthouse and the tastier court proceedings, such as Heathrow baggage handlers stealing Posh spice’s knickers are well documented in the local rag, the “Hounslow & Isleworth Informer”.

    As for Seawright, there are enough indigenous headbangers in the North without importing the Scottish variant…. except over the 12th…. or for UVF/UDA EGMs.. or for Linfield v Rangers friendlies.

  • me

    come on we all know that the dup has been up to its neck in paramilitary collusion over the years.Ulster resistance,oliver gibson etc etc.and I don,t care what anyone says they,ll never change.ever

  • bertie

    Seawright should not have been murdered but I wish that he had never been born.

  • Garibaldy

    Can we expect a DUP statement on allegations one of their councillors was a member of the UVF while in office?

  • stan

    I suggest the above question is directed to Willie McCrea.

  • Garibaldy

    Just listened to the Ervine interview. Thought he was excellent, and stressing that the endgame really is close to coming to a halt. People might despise what paramilitaries did, and in some cases continue to do, but people like Ervine deserve credit for their work. Other people need exposed for their hypocrisy.

  • Miss Fitz

    Here here G,

    did you notice his contained anger?

  • Garibaldy

    I did indeed Miss Fitz. I thought that was the most effective performance I’ve heard not just from him, but from any politician in a while. It’s quite clear there are a lot of unionist politicians/people involved in unionist parties with skeletons in their closets that are increasingly likely to fall out. The attitude of unionist parties that openly formed alliances with paramilitaries in the past towards people like Ervine is rank hypocrisy.

  • tra a

    The problem i have with Ervine is that when he was arrested he was en route to killing members of my community.

    The same uvf bombers had inflicted massive damage and deaths prior to Ervine’s arrest.

    Twenty years later Ervine was on the streets with uvf paramilitaries trying to do the same as Ervine had done twenty years previous, i.e burn & kill catholics.

    Same old Ervine, same old hatred and terror.

  • Garibaldy

    Tra a,

    I don’t think anyone who has met Ervine can have any doubt of his sincerity about wanting an end to violence. For me personally, he and the PUP remain locked in a Protestant unionism, but I believe Ervine and others are genuine in seeking to close many of the divisions in our society. Although not all connected to the UVF share that vision.

  • truth

    We need more George Seawrights and less David Ervines.

  • bertie

    ” but people like Ervine deserve credit for their work. Other people need exposed for their hypocrisy. ”

    Ervine’s hypppcracy shouldn’r need exposing. He is still happily accociated with a pack of murdering bastanrds whilst preaching peace. The main difference between him and Seawright is that few have any illusions about Seawright. Shame so many have about Ervine.

  • Miss Fitz

    Goose and gander should be the name of most of these posts. If we are expected to accept repentance from the IRA and enable them to mainstream into our community, then we are beholden to offer that same openess and acceptance to David Ervine.

    I’ve met him, and concur completely with Garibaldy, there can be no doubt of his courage, conviction and desire to move things on

  • Rory

    We need more George Seawrights and less David Ervines.

    Does that mean we need more loyalist killers dead as Seawright is? As for less David Ervines – do you mean he should go on a diet and lose some weight or do you want him to disappear completely?

  • Gino Gallagher

    The IPLO did the world a favour. Let’s also remember that the hero who rid us of Billy MI5 Wright was also ex IPLO.

    Miss Fitz: Ireland is one and indivisable. If you don’t like that, you can always go back to America. You are a guest in our country. Please don’t abuse it.

    Good news about Sean O’Callaghan. If the nutting squad still has remnants, his reward might be coming sooner than he expects. Just shows the flotsam Ruth DE consorts with.

  • Jo

    Miss Fitz

    I agree entirely with your assessment of DE, who I also have met and with whom I was always well impressed.

    He has seen the wallpaper and he is clearly still seething at those, still alive and in the top positions of the largest Unionist party who consorted with his former organisation. A pity a sensible post drags some comment from the sewer.

  • deadmanonleave

    Personally I’ve a lot more time for Ervine than most of the political pygmies and clowns that offer political ‘leadership’ to working class Protestants.

    I must say, this reads like a welcome revision of the IPLO’s history, after all, so few have much good to say about them.

    So, in their favour, they killed Seawright (after leader Jimmy Brown told him he’d be safe!), and one of their ex-members killed Wright.

    Okay, that’s about it, two dubious plusses to count against trying to destroy the Republican Socialist movement and failing, bringing ecstacy to the streets of the north and succeeding, sectarian spray jobs on Protestant bars. Oh, and giving us the 3,000th victim of the troubles in the one republican split of the 20th century with no political or ideological dimension at all.

  • circles

    I honestly believe that Seawight was seriously mentally ill and in a more normal society would have received the psychiatric treatment he deserved. Instead he was allowed to degenerate into a despicable, hate filled little shite of a man. No surprise then that he was welcomed in the DUP ranks for so long back in the day.

    Unfortunately I can’t hear the Ervine interview, but as a republican I find his form of loyalism a lot easier to relate to than the blood and thunder of the Good Rev. The only slightly bothersome thing about him is that dctionay he swallowed back in the Kesh.

  • bertie

    “Goose and gander should be the name of most of these posts. If we are expected to accept repentance from the IRA and enable them to mainstream into our community, then we are beholden to offer that same openess and acceptance to David Ervine.”

    I judge them all by the same standards and they are both found wanting.

  • nmc

    I enjoy Ervine’s openness, when compared to the duplicitous nature of the DUP. At least Ervine’s honest about his involvement, and the past, whereas the DUP pretend that they are whiter than white.

  • reality check

    Indeed Paisley went to Seawrights funeral as well as the uvf commander john bingham’s wake

  • Butterknife

    If bigot is censered try its synoynms:

    Main Entry: bigot
    Part of Speech: noun
    Definition: persecutor
    Synonyms:
    bug, crank, diehard, doctrinaire, dogmatist, enthusiast, extremist, fanatic, fideist, fiend, flag-waver, freak, jingoist, maniac, monomaniac, mule, no-neck, nut, opinionated person, partisan, persecutor, pig, puritan, racist, red-neck, relisher, sectarian, segregationist, sexist person, stickler, superpatriot, zealot

  • bertie

    What thge hell is purtian doing in that list? This shows distinct b.i.g.o.t.r.y.

  • BH

    Some people do deserve it.

    First I’ve heard anyone call the IPLO pretentious, by the way. Criminal, sectarian, greedy, homophobic, sure. But their intellectual pretensions were pretty much limited to one member.

  • andy

    How were they homophobic?
    Did they shoot an RUC officer in some gay bar? (can’t remember if it was them or the INLA)
    Of course that would not neccessarily mean they were homophobic

  • Henry94

    He denied robbery, telling the court he had gone back for a bondage session with O’Callaghan, and claiming the IRA man-turned supergrass had asked to be tied up

    I’m sure he knows where to go if that’s what he wants.

  • Rory

    At least this report from Ilseworth Court clears up one thing and that is that O’Callaghan has absolutely shed all vestiges of his Republican legacy. Rather than wishing that his people might be free “from the cold chains of bondage” he positively encourages such restraint.

    Unfortunately all attempts to contact him for comment have been met with, “I’m sorry, Mr O’Callaghan cannot speak to you now, he is tied up at the moment”.

    Silly old me, in my innocence I used to think that “bondage” was some obscure practice in usury like “mortgage” or “leverage” now I discover it is simply a social custom for Conservatives.

  • Realist

    One of the only sensible things George ever uttered from his vile, hate filled mouth, was after suffering electoral defeat shortly before his death.

    “The Protestant Unionist people have overwhelmingly rejected me”.

    You’re dead right we did George – rot in hell.

  • Reader

    Rory: At least this report from Ilseworth Court clears up one thing
    … that you believe claims that the jury didn’t?

  • Nothing new in Seawright being UVF, anyone who claims to be surprised at this has obviously no insight into N.I. politics. What is the next surprise to be? Adams is in ira? sf/ira are drug dealers? the fisherman’s a spy? paisley’s dup?

  • deadmanonleave

    I was genuinely surprised, thought he was a less than harmless looney loner! Was I the only one?

  • deadmanonleave

    [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_People’s_Liberation_Organisation] if I’ve linked that right.

  • bertie

    Not suprised at all. I do think that an earlier comment about mental illness may not have been far off the mark. The thought makes me uneasy as it means that I start to feel sympathy for him and that is very very very uncomfortable.

    Somebody say something to convince me that he was just evil and I can go back to merely despising him.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “Nothing new in Seawright being UVF, anyone who claims to be surprised at this has obviously no insight into N.I. politics.”

    Well perhaps, but…
    no mention of this link when the DUP were attacking the UUP for walking in to Stormont with the PUP/UDP in 1997
    no mention when Davy Dictionary signed up to Reg’s band of brothers
    not even a mention when the UUP snuggled up with the Shinners three times.

    You’d have thought the cheese eating surrender monkeys in Cunningplan House would have dredged this up before now.

    That’s not to deny he was a thoroughly unpleasant individual, but some of the comments on this thread show he’s not unique in ability to be crassly offensive

  • ciaran damery

    Gotta say the INLA/IPLO and it’s other splinter groups had some great, noble Irish patrionts. Three of those who died in the Hunger Strike were INLA Vols, O’Hara, Lynch and Mickey Devine. Others like Gino Gallagher, Dominic McGlinchey and Crip McWilliams were famously efficient Republican Socialist combatants. Others like Seaumus Costello, Miriam Daly, Jimmy Brown and Ronnie Bunting who were also associated with the IRPs were also proud and noble Irish Republicans murdered by enemies of Irish Freedom.

  • bertie

    cd

    what has that bit of terrorist glorification got to do with the thread topic?

  • ciaran damery

    bertie, Seawright, O’Callaghan et al may have been terrorists, but a price was exacted from both. Nobody’s glorifying them or Ervine and Dudley-Edwards for that matter.

  • deadmanonleave

    Brown the Clown a proud and noble Irish Republica…. Come on Ciaran, I know that republicans, and more particularly Irps are in a minority here, but let’s at least pretend we’re being serious!

  • Bill

    Gino Gallagher is widely believed to have been the gunman that shot George Seawright