Unionist views of the hunger strikes.

Chris has rightly pointed out the 25th Anniversary of what Intelligence Insider has described as Bobby Sands’ suicide.

The other side of this story though are those who are at this time challenging the republican narrative of the hunger strikes. Whilst republicans use their British rights of expression and free speech to celebrate the deaths of ten prisoners, we should not forget that they were not incarcerated for their political beliefs but murder, conspiracy to murder and other such crimes.

  • lib2016

    Steady on – The war’s over no matter what temporary madness unionist intransigence provokes. 😉

    By Christmas unionists will be preparing for powersharing with all the splits and infighting that will provoke – just as the herrenvolk had to do in South Africa. The Brits hold the purse strings and thirty million wont last for long. The business classes want powersharing and a real peace, so do the nationalists as long as they have genuine equality.

    The long scream of pain and hate which passes for political epression in the DUP camp hides a lot of realists who know that they are their own worst enemy. They’ll gurn to the end, but we’re nearly there and gurning never hurt anybody.

  • Harry

    You may be being a tad optimistic lib. I see no sign of these DUP ‘realists’ that everyone likes to talk about these days. SF are waiting till the election in the republic. It is unlikely unionists will power-share at least until after that election. Then they have the target of a change of leadership in Labour in Britain to Brown as well as the possibility of waiting for a newly resurgent Conservative party to hold much more power than hitherto.

    Unionist intransigence is the greatest destabilising factor on the island of ireland, outside of british militarism. This shit has to stop but the signs are not good. Perhaps your tealeaves come from a sunnier part of the world than mine.

  • Jo

    Interesting revelation.

  • stephen

    harry, all you lot have to do is commit to exclusively peaceful and democratic means.

    That means you cant go back to your gang and start violence, or threaten same.

    Either you want peace, or you dont…

    Now, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and ask you this;

    TELL ME WHY A UNITED IRELAND IS IN MY INTERESTS, AND WHAT ASSURANCES VCAN REPUBLICANS GIVE ME ABOUT BEING TRATED FAIRLY AND RESPECT FOR MY CULTURE.

  • Harry

    There’s been a ceasefire for 10 years, buffoon, yet unionists blather endlessly about ‘peace and democracy’, meaning their constructed majority based on a threat of violence.

    Nationalists are seeking compromise, not victory. They do not expect you to go into a united ireland tomorrow. What they do expect is power-sharing, representation in the Dail for their leaders and the opening up of the island economically. Unionists can’t even bring themselves to powershare on councils never mind compromise on the constitutional question.

    Everyone knows that if and when a majority of the north is nationalist that unionists will threaten violence. No one is deluded on that score, except unionists who keep talking about consent until such time as it no longer suits them, at which point they will threaten war just as they did in 1918 when they were a much smaller percentage of the population than they are in n. ireland today.

    44% of the population are nationalist. You think you can decide everything on the basis of your piffling 160,000 majority? Bullshit.

  • lib2016

    Harry,

    The DUP are honest politicans – they are being bought off with a few peerages and a bit of political patronage with regards to the thirty million and whatever else they can scrounge, and being honest politicans they will stay bought.

    The British assets in the loyalist and republican paramilitaries are being liquidated with prejudice.

    Demilitarisation may be slow but it is happening and it will not be politically possible to re-occupy most of Norn Ireland with an invading army. The war is over for both sides!

    The attempt to build a centreground has failed and there will be no repartition since that would provoke even more violence and joint authority never was a runner since it would mean that neither government had ultimate responsibility.

    All that’s left is for the Brits to shaft the remaining unionist extremists and pull out. Expect more spin discrediting the UDR and other unionist institutions, including the revelation of links between prominent unionist politicans and the paramilitaries.

  • Westborn

    25 years later on, Norn Irn still part of the uk.
    Yeah of course hes dead.
    My policy had always been to shoot the first rank of orangemen that came through a Nationalist area and wernt wanted “a relativly easy easy option by the way, for anyone that was interested”. I’m sorry of course if this sounds harsh, but fair doo’s. They shot any old taxy driver “yaba daba doo, any Taig’l doo” so I said, “take out their foremost or front line, its never beeen tried”. I honestly think I was the only advocate of such a policy. The Republican movement disagreed with me, and Im glad they did because Bobby turned us political. Fondest regards westborn

  • stephen

    ten years ceasefire?

    So rob mCartneys family will be over the moon to hear that. Also, the Northern Bank robbed itself, or it was leprechauns, and denis donaldson was killed by paisley in disguise, there wasnt a spy ring, nah, course not, and the other poor bastards killed by ‘dissidents'(who are really provos) didnt happen either.

    Based on a threat of violence is republican’s strategy full stop.

    Harry, if this is the best you can do to persuade me for a united Ireland, it is no wonder your group of thugs have to resort to violence to support a very incoherent position.

    The constitutional question is easy. A majority want to stay in the UK.

    Representation in the Dail is a non starter, as it is a seperate entity. If you want to sit in the Dail, then stand for election….simple.

    The island is opened up economically, as for your assertion that “Everyone knows that if and when a majority of the north is nationalist that unionists will threaten violence”…is good for a laugh.

    oh, and by the way, 44% of the people who can be arsed to vote vote nationalist…not 44% of the population.

    So, is that the reassurance you think will sway us into a united Ireland?

    Sad.

  • Harry

    You have a very generous view of britain’s intentions in ireland lib2016. A bit naive I’d say. Time will tell. A little more time.

  • stephen

    gosh, westborn, that was great.

    That will really help us to come together….heal the wounds and all that.

    You on something, or taking the piss?

  • Harry

    Stephen is obviously a Leviathan of unionist intellect… and a fair representative of the UDR I’d say.

  • Mike

    Southern Observer –

    “As a southerner,I never had much sympathy for the hunger strikers.However I must express my revulsion at the bigotry displayed by several unionist posters on this thread.”

    Just ‘unionist posters’???

    Nothing to say about the bigotry displayed by several ‘nationalist/republican posters’?

    For the record I think there’s a lot of offsensive crap bein spouted here by certain posters on both sides. (And I’m one who sees the hunger strikers and their colleagues as nothing other than the terrorist thugs they were).

  • derek de kont

    Stephen maybe youd like to explain to us Nationalists what Unionists have done to secure OUR support for Northern Ireland.

    And your talk of your culture, dont make me bloody laugh, whats that then 400 years imposing its will by violence or threat. Have you ever read the history of this country?. Probably not. In fact I feel sorry for you, you look toward a country which sees you as what you really are a bloody throwback. Go to England and tell em how you are British you deluded paddy.Outside the far reaches of the conservative party and the BNP youll be laughed at. I tried it why dont you.

    YOU and YOUR precious union is and was the real terrorism. Come to my home town and explain to me why a bunch of redneck loyalist scum plaster our town every year with symbols we wouldnt wipe are arses with?. This in a 76% Nationalist town.The only reason that parts of your precious Ulster are in the UK is because there are military installations full of guns keeping it that way. Or do you ever get past Finaghy?.

    Come on Stevie what are you guys doing to convince US of the benefits of the UK.

    I live 5 miles from the border and the difference bettwen the two states is night and day.

    ROI has the 4th highest GDP per head in the world one of the fastest growing economies and is at the heart of Europe doing business with allcomers. yes it has LOTS of problems but just look at Northern Ireland, hahahah.

    A disgusting bigoted laager showing no signs of reaching the 20th nevermind 21st century.

    And at the back of it all you know in your heart the game is up.Its over. The Brits dont want you.
    No selfish economic or strategic interest, brit ministers in america calling Ireland ONE economic unit.

    We know why you rant like a twot dear.

    Grow up politically and stand on your own two feet.

  • Pattila the Hun

    “Steady on – The war’s over no matter what temporary madness unionist intransigence provokes. ;-)”

    Err.. yes, I think I’ll pursue this argument with you, Lib2016, I don’t really want to push poor Harry over the edge twice in one day;).

    “By Christmas unionists will be preparing for powersharing with all the splits and infighting that will provoke – just as the herrenvolk had to do in South Africa.”

    The majority of Unionism voted in favour of the Belfast Agreement and were prepared for power-sharing at that time. It was he refusal of the Provos to keep their end of the bargain re disarmament, that mainly led to their later disenchantment and the rise of the DUP fundamentalists. There is still an inherent disapproval of powersharing within the Unionist population, but that’s down to an understandable distrust of the particular political movement they’re being asked to share power with.

    But the Provos have now (after a lot of gurning;)) given up the guns. The realists (and careerists) within the DUP want power. It’s just a question now how long it takes them to convince/outmanoeuvre the fundamentalists before they’re back in the Assembly. You say, pre-Xmas, probably you’re not far off.

    And when that happens, then the pressure will be back on Sinn Fein. They will be entering a partitionist parliament, helping to govern Northern Ireland. They can either make it work ( pushing away slowly but surely into the far future,the UI) or go back to their old wrecking tricks, risking losing a lot of their new voters( in NI and ROI), who believe they’ve turned over a new leaf and have decided to follow the 100% democratic route.

    Either way, once the Assembly gets back up and running, it’s a win-win situation for Unionism, if only the DUP’s backwoodsmen would realise it.

    Final personal point, LIB 2016. Harry and other Republicans on Slugger, who can’t seem to interact with Unionists,even on the internet,without resorting to personal abuse, obviously have no interest in our point of view or what we want to say. That being the case, in your opinion, is there any point in me and people with similar political views to myself continuing to contribute to this site?

  • stephen

    Harry, you still havent answered my question.

    Why is a United Ireland a better position for all of us?

    You must have at least one reason, or is it just because you hate prods and Britishness?

    In the absence of a reply, I must conclude it is the latter.

  • lib2016

    Harry

    I was the only nationalist on this or any other board I know of who pointed out that control freaks like the Brits would never concede Joint Authority. It was always a non-starter.

    Neither would they go for demilitarisation if it didnt suit their purpose, which is disengagement from Ireland.

    If they were seriously intending to stay they would be hyping the threat from the dissidents and keeping the forts.

    Instead they tried to prop up the centre as long as possible, as in the Save Dave campaign and the anti-republican allegations about spyrings (run by British agents!) and mysterious break-ins at Castlereagh.

    When that failed they continued to slow the rise of Sinn Fein with the McCartney allegations, the acess to the White House by the McCartneys showing how high the source of that campaign was, while they cleaned up the loyalists. Now they’ve postponed the elections so that the DUP won’t have to face the electorate after their sellout becomes apparent to their supporters, though every loyalist I know never had any confidence in the DUP anyway.

    The end of the endgame.

  • stephen

    Derek,

    I would say, dropping the oath to her Majesty in Queens, in the bar, (thats the legal bar, as opposed to a boozer), Irish street signs, Prisoner releases, Equality laws – (human rights/eu), Fair employment laws, Cross border bodies, funding for paddy’s day, udr disbanded, police disbanded and positive discrimination in favour of catholics, power sharing, (formerly even without decommissioning), army watch towers taken down, cross border roads re opened, need I go on?

    Now Derek, there is a small matter of some 30 billion per year from the UK to sustain us, and I would point out that the rep have received 20% of the funding from the EU up until 2007…then we will see how great your economy is.

    Of course, your gdp is rising, but your economy is still a tad small compared to the UK, isnt it?

    Sorry to disappoint you Derek, but I hold a phd in Irish History, from Trinity, in the republic, imagine!!!

    I know Dublin well, and I know the differnce in mindset of irish nationalists down south compared to up here.

    Most southerners couldnt give a hoot about us up here, and definitely do not want adams et al to gain power.

    By the way, NI is emptied of guns and installations, or havent you noticed?

    A united Ireland is a dream, and one which has still not been set out in detail as to why it is worth killing over….

    You have to convince us to change our constitutional position, not us justify reality.

    Patilla, I agree, just read Dereks rant…..

  • tamsin nipplethwaite

    patilla wrote:

    There is still an inherent disapproval of powersharing within the Unionist population, but that’s down to an understandable distrust of the particular political movement they’re being asked to share power with.

    ie Fenians who they used to walk over, i can see why they have a problem alright.

  • Pattila the Hun

    Derek??
    You’ve lost me there Stephen.

    To be honest I think you (and I) are wasting our time here.

    I’m off to do something a bit more productive,( the toilet’s due a clean;)

  • Harry

    Patilla wrote:
    “There is still an inherent disapproval of powersharing within the Unionist population, but that’s down to an understandable distrust of the particular political movement they’re being asked to share power with.”

    So what? Are we animals, to be herded as you wish? Do you get to decide the type of people you’d prefer to be on the other side – 44% of the population? We don’t have any doubts and distrust of the unionists, who are wonderful people in comparison to the disgraceful atavists we are, in your charicature of things? We have no issues of trust worth talking about, ‘cos yours are more important?

    Deal with your issues of trust yourselves. That’s your problem. Don’t make them my problem.

  • Mike

    Patilla –

    “Final personal point, LIB 2016. Harry and other Republicans on Slugger, who can’t seem to interact with Unionists,even on the internet,without resorting to personal abuse, obviously have no interest in our point of view or what we want to say. That being the case, in your opinion, is there any point in me and people with similar political views to myself continuing to contribute to this site?”

    I’ve noted too that recently Slugger has essentially become a platform to abuse the entire unionist community and pour out what comes across essentially as a visceral hatred of that community.

    Doesn’t exactly encourage me to want to bother wading through all that any more to find the constructive posts and proper debate.

  • Pattila the Hun

    tamsin,
    Cheers.
    You’ve just answered my last question to LIB2016.
    A sensible discussion is obviously beyond your capability.

    LIB2016, Mad Harry etc, enjoy your future “debates” with each other.

    Now where’s my bogbrush?

  • stephen

    harry,

    Reasons for a united Ireland??

    Or just want to kill prods~?

  • lib2016

    Pattila,

    Sorry for any personal abuse, things have got over heated recently and I’m a sensitive caring person who is easily upset unlike all my political opponents (yourself excepted) on this site who are merely over-emotional reactionaries.;-)

    On the other hand I reserve the right to condemn the views of all Tories, Green or Orange. Exploring other peoples reactions is what makes life interesting after all.

    Stephen,

    The unionists will split over powersharing. Republicans have been under pressure for a long time and they have coped and even changed their policies radically in the process without major splits.

    Once Sinn Fein becomes the largest party and a Sinn Fein First Minister takes his place at Stormont we begin a whole new era.

    Whatever happens after that is all up for grabs. The danger for unionists doesn’t come from republicans who believe that they will win anyway, whether in the short or long term. British dirty tricks are an old story for nationalists. How will unionists react when they find that they have become the target?

  • tamsin nipplethwaite

    Stephen wrote:

    By the way, NI is emptied of guns and installations, or havent you noticed?

    you really are deluded arent you. did you read the recent stats on gun ownership here published in the tele?. Do you get out much?. What military installations do you live near?. I can see a helipad from my back yard and I can assure you its very busy. Full of foreigners imposing Brit rule on people who dont want them.

    re your PHD you remind me of that song by Randy Newman.

    We got college men from LSU
    WENT IN DUMB. COME OUT DUMB TOO.

    We’re rednecks, rednecks
    And we don’t know our ass from a hole in the ground
    We’re rednecks, we’re rednecks
    And we’re keeping the Niggers down.

    And lest you whine about insult – have a good read over your own posts.

  • Harry

    You mistake passion for abuse. You refuse to allow real feelings, even when couched the vast majority of the time in rational and substantive language, if those feelings happen to be nationalist.
    This is not a game and nationalists are still living under occupation. Refusal of unionists to truly engage, even on this site, is typical of the me-myself-and-I attitude of unionism, a people who prefer to go running off crying foul whenever something truly heartfelt and indignant comes their way.

    Stephen says the guns have been removed from n. ireland – that includes the 144,500 legally held guns, 20,000-30,000 PSNI guns and thousands of illegally held guns that went missing from army stores does it?
    He says that all the towers are gone – I believe that is untrue. At christmas the NIO announced the redeployment of soldiers on the streets of n. ireland, against dissident republicans they said.
    He says that the police are disbanded – they’ve been given a new coat of paint, little else. MI5 are due to arrive in force to back them up anytime soon. Apparently nationalists are supposed to just ignore this blatant polticial intervention in policing and politics and consider it their place to accept british military oversight, intelligence gathering and espionage in their midst.
    He says paddy’s day is now funded – that happened for the first time this year, and was considered something of a flop.

    Apparently stephen thinks that a few crumbs that bring us to somewhere we should already have been 70 years ago should be good enough for nationalists.

  • lib2016

    Amazing! It would seem that the message is finally getting through that ordinary decent nationalists don’t appreciate having to live in a colony, a colony moreover which is run as a sectarian police state.

    It may have taken a few ‘slips’ by moderates like McAleese and Reid but now unionists know that there’s a word for people who refuse to accept responsibility for the policies they support or the ideas behind this society.

    If you can’t take it you shouldn’t have been so keen on handing it out.

  • stephen

    thanks Tamsin, very insightful….lol

  • Pattila the Hun

    “Sorry for any personal abuse, things have got over heated recently and I’m a sensitive caring person who is easily upset unlike all my political opponents (yourself excepted) on this site who are merely over-emotional reactionaries.;-)”

    LIB2016
    You personally have nothing to apologise for, I was only asking your opinion about others’ comments.

    Exploring other peoples reactions is what makes life interesting after all.”

    Yes and that’s what first attracted me to this site, it was one of the very few forums were it was possible to have robust arguments about the NI situation where by and large the personal abuse was left out. But that no longer seems to be the case and the point of getting involved in
    debate seems to have disappeared.

    Whatever, I think it’s time for this particular “over-emotional reactionary”;)to sign off from this particular discussion.

  • stephen

    Harry,

    “This is not a game and nationalists are still living under occupation”

    fuck sake wise up.

    Why a united Ireland, – for the third time of asking….

    Silence is deafening Harry….where is your argument Harry?

    Or just abuse, and a hatred of all things British, and all non catholics?

  • stephen

    lib,

    I think Unionists are already uneasy about dirty tricks, and most, including myself are against mi5 taking primacy over our police force in intelligence matters.

    I dont believe sfira will be in my lifetime the biggest party in NI, and there will never be a sfira first minister in stormont.
    I think the more dynamic section of the dup will prepare the ground for entering into powersharing, and gradually I see a realignment of all unionists, probably as soon as Paisley steps down.

    Republicans should be praying for the continued particpation of paisley…only in NI would you have a situation like this!

  • Intelligence Insider

    harry,
    Don’t worry too much about MI5 arriving in force, they have been here for a long, long time. In fact two of our longest serving operatives recently made tv appearances calling on the 4 provos who tried to kidnap tohill to give themselves up!

    MI5 – They haven’t gone away you know.

  • stephen

    int insider,

    nail on the head.

  • Southern Observer

    ”Just ‘unionist posters’???

    Nothing to say about the bigotry displayed by several ‘nationalist/republican posters’?”
    OK.Some of them as well.

  • lib2016

    stephen,
    The last word of your post says it all. Nobody mentioned or gives a damn where you go on Sunday mornings and when people do try and debate politics or the nature of this society you turn it into another boring rant about unionism’s boring identity crisis.

    The world’s moved on and both Paisley and the deluded community which he leads will have to adapt to reality. That’s not meant as abuse but you do have to accept that the rest of Europe gave up both running empires and having Holy Wars between the various Christian sects some time ago.

  • stephen

    Lib,

    “Nobody mentioned or gives a damn where you go on Sunday mornings and when people do try and debate politics or the nature of this society you turn it into another boring rant about unionism’s boring identity crisis”

    What on earth are you on about?

    “That’s not meant as abuse but you do have to accept that the rest of Europe gave up both running empires and having Holy Wars between the various Christian sects some time ago”.

    What the f…? DID YOU ACTUALLY READ MY POST?

    I am not a protestant, nor even a christian!

    I was answering the points YOU made in your earlier post about a sf first minister, and that unionists would split over powersharing.

    My points were solely in reply to these points you made earlier.

    What exactly are you raving about?

  • lib2016

    Stephen,

    Sorry. I was replying to post 5.

  • stephen

    post 5, where I am asking Harry for his reasons for a united ireland? What was al this about churches and empires etc?

    I havent mentioned anything remotely connected to this!!!

  • Jo

    Stpehen

    Just ignore Harry, he is a troll.

  • stephen

    jo,

    as we say, he is not the full whack….