No one did it then…

David Vance expresses some of the ascerbic scepticism felt by many Unionists at any of the explanations likely to arise of the killing of Donaldson.

  • middle-class taig

    Wow, that’s the first time I’ve ever seen an attempt at alternative analysis on A Tangled Web – chapeau, David. Are we to expect more of this penetrating dialectic?

  • Stephen Copeland

    Wow, Mick … you felt that was worth blogging?

    Sheesh!

  • Billy Pilgrim

    A typically useful and wholly unpredictable contribution from DV…

    The ATW thread is already linked elsewhere. Bizarre choice of blog, if you don’t mind my saying so Mick. Presumably Vance has some compromising photos of you? (Now THAT would be worth blogging!)

  • Yawn,

    David Vance expresses his preconcieved notions about what happened, which he proudly won’t be changing in the face of any evidence… I sullied myself with a trip to ATW for this!?

    Plus ca change…

    Now if you’ll forgive me I need a shower

  • Billy, I doubt anyone would pay to see compromising photos of me. Now lads, if you’re finished playing the man: kindly move along.

  • Stephen Copeland

    Mick,

    We’re drowning in Donaldson threads. Why did you try to start yet another? Especially such a crap one? Couldn’t you just have posted a wee message (with link, if you really felt it was worth it) on one of the 6 other active DD threads?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Doesn’t the Vance contribution fall under the dog bites man maxim. The voters of Upper Bann have so much to answer for.

  • Slugger O’Toole Admin

    You don’t have to comment on every thread Stephen!

  • Craig Bane

    Why was Donaldson Killed?

    Were they looking for Arms?

  • Glen Taisie

    Carlsberg don’t kill informers but if they did ………………

  • urquhart

    Glen Taiste: “Carlsberg don’t kill informers but if they did ………………”

    That’s not funny here, on ATW or in any of the other threads where you’ve posted it.

  • Many thanks for the insightful comments guys – it’s what I expect from you.

    My favourite comment, from Lhiannan Shee…

    “Gerry Adams says he rang the Donaldson family to warn and commiserate with them before it broke on the media.
    I wonder who told him?
    Was his phone call before or after the murder?”

    I suggest you guys stay away from Kristallnacht Update…..

  • barnshee

    “Glen Taiste: “Carlsberg don’t kill informers but if they did ………………”

    That’s not funny here, on ATW or in any of the other threads where you’ve posted it. ”

    Sorry but yes it is in a funny way— funny

  • Mick the mohel cut a little too far above the neck at the Vance bris.

    Focus, instead, Sluggiepoos, on what wasn’t.

    Donaldson WASN’T hiding. He was living just due south of the Republican Rivera, was known to the Donegal Gardi and was even outed by one of the Belfast fishwrappers. This is a man with assurances or one hell of a death wish.

    Donaldson WASN’T er, debriefed, at least not in the classical intelligence sense. Not whisked off to South Armagh and found days or weeks later shot behind the ear, barefoot with a plastic bag over his head.

    It WASN’T Scappaticci that was found dead.

  • David Michael

    Was anybody watching the UTV news at 6pm?

    They did a montage of various blogs covering the DD murder. One was entitled not “A Tangled Web” but “The Tangled Web”.

    I was trying to track it down. It was only shown for about half a second but it was white sans type on dark grey with a big b/w pic below.

    Or did UTV’s art dept simply mock it up? I know, sad, but such things interest me. I don’t get out much 🙂

  • EWI

    David Vance expresses some of the ascerbic scepticism felt by many Unionists at any of the explanations likely to arise of the killing of Donaldson.

    And…? Where exactly was the value in the linked post (or blog even, if you look at the rest of his and McCann’s “output”), Mick?

  • TAFKABO

    There’s a link to The tangled web on one of the other Donaldson threads.

  • TAFKABO

    Is this the blog you were thinking off?

    http://www.whokilleddennis.blogspot.com/

  • missfitz

    Didnt this kind of post surface last night, from “concerned handler” or someone like that?

  • David Michael

    Yes!!! That’s the one, TAFKABO. Godd work.

  • David Michael

    For “Godd” read Good.

    Missfitz distracted me with the proximity of her gorgeous self.

  • missfitz

    Ah gee David, I’m just a super model who puts in her evenings blogging…..

  • I’ve got my own issues with ATW at times, esp. when the Evil Twin mauls the keyboard, but I found nothing wrong with David’s post here.

    Its expresssing an opinion about anticipated coverup and bullshittery that is shared by a many “Unionists”. And by many who are not ” Unionists”.

  • David Michael

    Misfitz
    “Ah gee David, I’m just a super model who puts in her evenings blogging…..”

    This should m-m-make me f-feel less nervous? 🙂

  • Slugger O’Toole Admin

    It’s extraordinary that I get this many complaints simply from linking to a Unionist site.

    What’s the value? Simple. He’s a Unionist, expressing a Unionist view. I’m not saying it’s typical, but it’s short, ascerbic and makes a point.

    Like I said last week:

    When it comes to re-discovering each others “private public lives” the “authentic voice” is always to be preferred to “reported speech”. Except, that in the case of Protestants and Unionists, we are still find ourselves routinely instructed by the great and the good not even to ‘indulge’ them by listening to them directly.

    I’ll be doing a more concentrated round up of politicians and bloggers reaction later today, if I can get the time.

  • Jo

    DV was apparently “was entertained by the venom spewed forth from the little trolls in response”

    The above counts as venom, does it? What did I miss?

  • missfitz

    David
    Please dont feel nervous, although I must admit it does make me feel warm and fuzzy.

    I’m not really the Kate Moss type, I always considered mysel more in the mode of the Anne Widdecombe supermodel category

  • qubol

    The blog TAFKABO links to is quite interesting. It certainly confirms what I’ve heard. Why did Hugh Jordan use a former Special Branch cop to take his photos? Why did he not use one of the Sunday World’s regular photographers? From the photos published it certainly seems DD didn’t know he was being photographed – you would have to ask if he he would of been happy at this exposure and at the very least there are definite ethical questions arising over the Sunday Worlds conduct in DD’s final weeks.

  • missfitz

    Qubol
    It would be good to pull all the threads together, as this was also raised on the site. I mentioned that Jim McDowell was on the Stephen Nolan show yesterday and was totally unrepentant about what happened and insisted that DD whereabouts were common knowledge.

    It was good though when Nolan asked him why they called it an exclusive scoop to reveal his whereabouts, if indeed everyone knew. Cant remember the answer to that one!

  • Niall

    Hugh Jordan was on Today FM’s Last Word last night. He stated that all the furore over his exclusive in revealing DD whereabouts was jealousy from other reporters, that they did’nt get it first. He also stated that it was well known that DD’s son owned a house in the Glenties area. One other thing he admitted that DD had no knowledge that any photos were being taken.

  • qubol

    hey guys,
    I defo think we should have a thread about the Sunday Worlds conduct – just need to be careful cos they wouldn’t think twice about taking legal action. Hugh Jordan was making the case that ‘we were giving him the chance to speak’ what rubbish. Like one of the callers said if he wanted to speak then he would of – whatever the man did he wanted to be left alone – his life was ruined and it must of been impossible on his family. Hugh Jordan pops up ‘in our interest’ with his special branch friend in toe to tell us all and ‘get his side of the store across’. How did Hugh Jordans source – the Special Branch cop know of DD’s whereabouts? If his source was willing to tell Hugh Jordan about DD who else did he tell?

  • David Michael

    missfitz
    “I’m not really the Kate Moss type, I always considered mysel more in the mode of the Anne Widdecombe supermodel category”

    LOL. One hopes it’s more Victoria Wood doing AW than AW in all her AWesomeness.

    qubol
    “I defo think we should have a thread about the Sunday Worlds conduct – just need to be careful cos they wouldn’t think twice about taking legal action.”

    With you all the way. And a few well-placed “allegedly”s and “It would appear”s go a long way towards safeguarding one’s ass.

  • He’s a Unionist expressing a Unionist point of view. Hmmmm well I know a few Unionists, and their point of view is really not as facist as the one expressed regularly, sickeningly regularly, on atw. So I suppose it’s a choice Slugger, between giving the oxygen of publicity or allowing these right-wing eirjets to let off steam. Don’t believe in censorship. Don’t believe in facism either. And don’t believe that my unionist friends are anything like atw and it’s pov.

  • EWI

    It’s extraordinary that I get this many complaints simply from linking to a Unionist site.

    Plurabella is right. ATW’s Unionism isn’t the issue, but rather the racism, misogyny and homophobia which characterises that hate-site.

    Come to think of it, maybe Vance’s Unionism is the issue after all. Does he get a free pass here on Slugger because of it?

  • Jo

    “Hugh Jordan was making the case that ‘we were giving him the chance to speak’ what rubbish”

    I heard this too, and I thought the same. It was clear from the content and tone of the article that DD just wanted to be left alone. I am surprised he didnt thump Jordan. I hope the man can sleep nights.

  • Mick Fealty

    Specifics lads/lasses? What precisely expressed ‘racism, misogyny and homophobia’ in the post I linked to?

    It seems what’s being called for here is a ban on Vance because he says other things that you don’t like. That is man not ball.

    Now if you want to select only people you agree with and ban others that’s your call, on your blog.

    I ban people too. But not because of their politics. You may be sure I’m not going to start now.

  • Jo

    Mick,

    The three epithets can reasonably be applied very frequently to that site, though not, as you correctly indicate, the precise post to which you linked. People didnt come by the views you cite by plucking imaginary or imagined homophobia, racism and bigotry from nowhere. I myself, as you will be aware, spent some time before finally concluding irrevocably, that it was a place of the damned.

    It is what is typical and what is themed that people can reasonably use to describe a site.

    My own perspective is unionist, although I have also been described as a Provo. The association of unionism with racism and bigotry is something I have personally fought against and helped to rectify. To others, it seems not to matter that they provide daily evidence that the words “Protestant” and “bigot” are doomed to be forever insperaable, even in the understanding of own Prime Minister, it would seem. I know that he didn’t believe that from reading JOBLOG…

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Jo: “The association of unionism with racism and bigotry is something I have personally fought against and helped to rectify. To others, it seems not to matter that they provide daily evidence that the words “Protestant” and “bigot” are doomed to be forever insperaable, even in the understanding of own Prime Minister, it would seem.”

    To the first part, a century or three of “track record” has its pitfalls. Just hitting the recent highlights, there’s Brook and Craig and Paisley and Wright.

    To be fair (and yes, I know, I’m not particularly famous for that), the biggest disadvantage of the normal folk, Jo, is that the bastards, on both sides, have much bigger megaphones than the normal folk. Normal folks not behaving anti-socially or violently just doesn’t sell adcopy. Blood… Scandal… Hatred… There are the things that sell papers. The negative is exploited and, in a twisted sense, lauded, whilst the positive news gets buried with the obituaries. Ergo, ATW gets linked.

  • The guy used by the Sunday World for the filming has been used by many papers throughout this island. To my knowledge he is ex-CID, not Special Branch. He used a camera that looks like a button on a coat.

  • missfitz

    PP
    I have heard very differently to that, and I think that we have not heard the last of that person. I would not accuse anyone of being disingenuous, but have you got evidence for what you are saying?

  • Mick,

    Sorry to have to say this – but thanks for your 3.37pm post! I appreciate you highlighting the simple truth that several so-called self defined “liberals” on this site just can’t handle the fact that it is perfectly valid to hold views that directly contradict those which they may believe.

    I treat with contempt the allegations made against myself (Racist, homophobic, misogynist) -though it is often said that people that so freely spout such comments betray more about themselves.

    Man, not ball is perhaps the only game in town for some, because they don’t know how to kick the ball?

  • Jo

    MissFitz, do you hail from Rostrevor direction?

    I have some photos on JOBLOG (March 19) you might find interesting? 😉

  • David Michael

    Hey Jo

    I’m in Rostrevor too! Gimme the link.

  • paddyjoe

    did jordan use the sb man to take the photograph of him for his sw column/if so , the sb man must have some camera. it makes jordan look 20 yrs younger while donaldson looked 20 yrs older. just wondering!!

  • Jo

    David,

    Go to my name and click archives, march 19. Nice 2 meet u 🙂

  • JD

    Mick, What about the thread on the Sunday World? This is now 20 people who have appeared on the front of the Sunday World in a so called exclusive and were shortly after assassinated. It must be legitmate to ask is appearing in the Sunday World a death sentence? and what is the relationship between journalists who work for the paper and the Special Branch?

  • David Michael

    Jo

    I loved the Balding one 🙂

    Must visit again.

  • missfitz

    Are you David? Wow! I’ve lived here for about 14 years.
    Looking for that link Jo, thanks, will come back if cant find it

  • missfitz

    Great photos Jo, thats the cemetery up at Forestbrook? Have you been to the other little cemetery with the Celtic cross? My daughter is an archaeologist and we spent quite some time there surveying the tombstones over a couple of weeks and it was very interesting. There are some fascinating stories to be told on them.

  • David Michael

    Missfitz

    “Are you David? Wow! I’ve lived here for about 14 years.

    I’ve lived here for nearly 2. Lovely place.

    “the other little cemetery with the Celtic cross … it was very interesting.”

    Also interesting is the fact that it’s right next door to the health clinic 🙂

  • David, your response @ 8.07, above: “I treat with contempt the allegations made against myself (Racist, homophobic, misogynist) -though it is often said that people that so freely spout such comments betray more about themselves.”

    Indeed, this response, littered with metaphors displays the vital component in the arsenal of the righteous. The ability to feel contempt. Contempt is for those who feel they are above others. This says a lot about you.

    We are all here expressing our opinions and though I don’t agree with yours, you have the right to express them. And I have the right to disagree, and will continue to do so.

    Dont’ get too het up about your critics, I suspect they are the fuel to your anger in more ways than one.

  • David Michael

    Shit, why do I have to share my forename with … him. Confusing. Time for the deed poll?

    Heard in Milvaukee: “I vass David vance but now no longer.”

  • TAFKABO

    There’s some interesting leaps of logic being taken in this thread.
    Being ex CID/Special branch automatically taints any investigation for which you take photographs?

    Can we apply the same standards to “ex” republicans who now work as journalists?

    And as for the Sunday World article on Donaldson, if it was such a dangerous thing to do, then why did so few people here and elsewhere raise this point when the story appeared a couple of weeks ago?
    I recall few, if any, voices at the time talking about the story putting the man at risk.
    We all have 20/20 hindsight.

  • missfitz

    Well Taf
    I guess that means none of us did it.

    That is a great relief.

  • Mick Fealty

    Most of this thread is nothing to do with David’s post and everything to do with him. As I point out above, his tooth fairy scenario is as sharp as any of the official versions. Anyone going to gainsay that, or should I just close the thread now?

  • “putting the man at risk” no I didn’t comment on it, but I did think it and so did many people I know. Though this shouldn’t really be about those who didn’t comment. More about those who chose to put Donaldson at risk. What was their motivation? Where was their concern for another human? Or is that the dichotomy? Because of what he did, he’s not considered human.

    Slugger, closing might be a good idea, before I lose what cool I have left.

  • Ultonian Scottis American

    Maybe this should be in the complaint thread, but it seems that certain posters are given carte blanche to employ ad hominems or shamelessly pimp their own blogs.