Loyalists: Arrest Us and We’ll Kill Catholics?

The weekend witnessed an attempt by loyalist paramilitaries in north Belfast to murder a catholic taxi driver. The targeting of a taxi driver is an ominous throw-back to the darkest periods of the conflict and a reminder, if any were needed, of the tenuous peace that exists in many areas of the north.
Both Sinn Fein and the SDLP have speculated that the attempted killing was an inevitable reaction by loyalists to the dramatic scenes witnessed in the Alexandra Bar last week.

  • ingrammartin

    A disturbing and sad throw back to the past,Loyalism is strong and is flexing its muscles to remind those who doubt that ” They have not gone away you know”

    The Taxi driver is a lucky lad, I hope he buys a lottery ticket this weekendbecause with his luck he destined for the rollover.

    Martin

  • elfinto

    Yes Martin, they are still fully armed thanks to you, your mates in the FRU, MI5 and the apartheid regime.

    Still, trying to shoot a taxi-driver doesn’t prove strength. Without support from the puppet masters they are nothing but a bunch of goons.

    elfinto

  • CS Parnell

    Might also be because the “leader” (there is a German word which seems more appropriate) of Unionism said the IRA was storing up guns to murder protestants.

    Now, I carry no brief for the IRA – but the basic fact is that they have chucked it in. They lost the war and they are now trying to win the peace. But Paisley seems to prefare winding people up about a coming sectarian civil war.

    If you were stupid enough to join the UFF and the “respectable” people say a sectarian murder campaign is being planned, what do you think you do?

  • Comrade Stalin

    A disturbing and sad throw back to the past,Loyalism is strong and is flexing its muscles to remind those who doubt that “ They have not gone away you know”

    Martin, give it a rest. The gun jammed, a situation which seems to happen to these guys quite a lot. Loyalists can’t even get their act together sufficiently to procure weapons which actually work.

    We did not back down to IRA violence and likewise, we should not back down to loyalist violence. If these unelected people refuse to see the democratic light, then they need to be hunted down and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Where necessary, early release licenses must be revoked.

  • Pete Baker

    The gun jammed, a situation which seems to happen to these guys quite a lot. Loyalists can’t even get their act together sufficiently to procure weapons which actually work.

    Which, if true, and there’s not much more than anecdotal evidence of it, that should call into question the level of threat they actually pose.

    btw.. another scoop by the Daily Ireland?

    [/sarcasm]

  • Comrade Stalin

    Yes Martin, they are still fully armed thanks to you, your mates in the FRU, MI5 and the apartheid regime.

    Alright elfinto, you can put the binlid down now.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Which, if true, and there’s not much more than anecdotal evidence of it, that should call into question the level of threat they actually pose.

    Pete, we’re back to the decommissioning of minds cliche.

    The problem is not the guns that the loyalists possess, but their will to use them to kill random civilians and – even more seriously – the will by supposedly upstanding elected politicians like Nigel Dodds to complain to the police whenever they try to do something about it. A person could be forgiven for believing that some unionist politicians seem to think it is in their interest to try to foster resentment against the police in their own backyards – a very dangerous path to tread indeed.

  • elfinto

    PB,
    ‘Which, if true, and there’s not much more than anecdotal evidence of it, that should call into question the level of threat they actually pose.

    btw.. another scoop by the Daily Ireland?’

    Disgraceful comments. Are you suggesting the intended victim made the story up? Even after the so-called ‘Red Hand Defenders’ claimed responsibility, presumably using a codeword!?

    This kind of statement shows up the sectarian attitude of many unionists.

  • Pete Baker

    That I don’t doubt at all, Comrade.. and you can add to that mix the complaints from Sinn Féin about police positioned in their areas, as back-up, when the raid on the bar took place.

    But the decommissioning of mindsets is not an objective that the political process can, or should, target – it’s an outworking of that process.

    Hence my previous focus, see posts passim, on the role of the NIO, Peter Hain et al.. and their dalliances with the murkier realms of the UDA.

  • Pete Baker

    elfinto

    It’s simply a statement of fact, followed by a question [sarcastic though that was]. But I see you’ve already ascribed a belief system onto me..

    plus ca change..

  • elfinto

    I see that you have just assumed that the victim of this terrible experience is a Provo liar. Plus ca change!

  • Pete Baker

    elfinto

    I have assumed nothing.. unlike yourself.

  • elfinto

    Pete,

    Your comments speak for themselves.

  • Pete Baker

    Yes they do, elfinto.. when read unfiltered by the mindsets noted by Comrade Stalin.

    And I’m not going to debate your assumptions here.. they’re your concern.. not mine.

  • Comrade Stalin

    That I don’t doubt at all, Comrade.. and you can add to that mix the complaints from Sinn Féin about police positioned in their areas, as back-up, when the raid on the bar took place.

    I think the police were there possibly to protect the republicans from any angry outbursts coming from the loyalists. They have done that before.

    Perhaps I’m just insecure but I thought your post was implying that I was ignoring SF’s role in the events of last Thursday. Just to reinforce things, I thimnk Sinn Fein’s take on policing – namely that their failure to support the police over silly technicalities concerning the implementation of Patten – is wrong and smacks of political cowardice, and I have argued that point with republicans here many times. I do not believe that republicans are serious about supporting law and order or authority, which could be seen easily on Slugger in the aftermath of the riots in Dublin, in which republicans carefully avoided supporting the Garda even though they condemned the violent acts.

    However, what I find much worse than SF’s opposition to policing (which is consistent with their stated policy) is the duplicity of parties which say they support the police, when in fact they do not. The DUP have made tremendous political capital out of backing the police and opposing the Patten reforms, but when it comes to a robust police effort to shut down an organization which not long ago fired live rounds at the police during a riot, the DUP elected representatives turned on the police like a pack of wild dogs.

    By the way, the unionists who normally contribute to Slugger are awfully bloody quiet on this matter. I suspect they wouldn’t be so quiet if half a dozen chuckies had been lifted while organizing something. This whole place reeks of hypocrisy.

    Hence my previous focus, see posts passim, on the role of the NIO, Peter Hain et al.. and their dalliances with the murkier realms of the UDA.

    I thought your posts on that matter were insightful, but the Brits have been doing this for ages. At risk of sounding like a broken record, the unionist politicians have often been there right along with them, as part of the Loyalist Commission or whatever other working group was in fashion. We can’t just blame the Brits for everything. Unionists must start accepting that loyalist politicians won’t feel motivated to go away until the elected politicians tell them to do so in unambiguous terms.

    On the Red Hand Defenders matter, I recall that that organization has claimed to have disbanded at least twice now, the first occasion being immediately following the shooting of Danny McColgan at Rathcoole. It is a UDA covername and the Daily Ireland’s story, while possibly questionable, is certainly consistent with past history.

  • Pete Baker

    Perhaps I’m just insecure but I thought your post was implying that I was ignoring SF’s role in the events of last Thursday.

    Not at all, Comrade.. I freely acknowledge that you’re one of our more objective commenters.

    As for my posts on the NIO, Hain et al.. thank you. My view is that, if the supposed government wants to be viewed as upholding the rule of law, they can’t be allowed to neglect it for dubious political considerations.. at any time.

  • sohnlein

    “A disturbing and sad throw back to the past,Loyalism is strong and is flexing its muscles to remind those who doubt that “ They have not gone away you know”

    11 people in custody, who, if they had the book thrown at them, as per the current anti-terrorist legislation being bandied about against “Muslim Terrorists” in the UK, would go down for a good stretch.

    Flexing their muscles…more like the last gasp of a dying breed.

  • Crataegus

    I must confess I rejoiced at the news of the arrests and earnestly hope that many, many more will follow. Good job.

    It cannot be over stated the problems these people cause in the areas they control. They cause misery and have no redeeming features whatsoever. They kill to purpose and at random at regular intervals and suggestions that a gun jamming indicates a lesser level of threat perhaps shows a lack of real contact with this beings rather than a true assessment of risk. These people would beat you to death with hammers. If you are targeted you are in serious trouble. They will kill you, or anyone around you or have a dam good go at trying. A colleague of mine has had to send his children into boarding because of possible risk of kidnapping. People like these need the full protection that society can deliver.

    How any politician can possible act as an apologist for psychopathic thugs is beyond me, SHAME SHAME on them, and as for SF and its pedantic nonsense words fail me. It is an indication of how sick our society is when events like this are not fulsomely supported by all (bar the miscreants of course). May they roast in hell.

  • Crataegus

    Sorry software again

    ingrammartin8 was Crataegus

    Crataegus

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Comrade Stalin: “Martin, give it a rest. The gun jammed, a situation which seems to happen to these guys quite a lot. Loyalists can’t even get their act together sufficiently to procure weapons which actually work. ”

    C’mon, C.S. Give the devils their due — they’re making an effort. Between you an’ me, that ought to be enough for the proverbial “pimp hand” to come down — would you wager *your* life on a jamming pistol or a dud round? Frankly, you’re just as wounded if the gun what shoots you is a basement Sten, a zip gun or an “actually working firearm.” Or a homemade shiv or a ballpeen hammer ‘cross the skull, come to think of it.

    Comrade Stalin: “We did not back down to IRA violence and likewise, we should not back down to loyalist violence. If these unelected people refuse to see the democratic light, then they need to be hunted down and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Where necessary, early release licenses must be revoked.”

    The issue isn’t what *OUGHT* to be done, its when the PSNi will stir their arses and actually *DO* what needs to be done. Therein lies the difference.

  • Bunter

    I would tend to agree with PB on this one not too much evidence one way or other. Any Tom, Dick or Continuity could make a call claiming Tom, Dick or The Continuity say’s yer men from the Red Hand did it, we do know some Taxi drivers have rather vivid imaginations!!

  • Bunter

    Martin are’nt you the guy who touted on the FRU are’nt you the guy who sentenced loads of people to an early grave? well for you to call any one names sure takes the bistik. A traitor to his own people and cause and now trying to ingratiate himself into republicanism by being their best informant!! Jeeze this world just stays the same!! If you know sooo much why dont you just come clean or are you too waiting for the big Hollywood blockbuster pay day!?

  • Belfast Gonzo

    If you ask me, the attack on the taxi driver and yesterday’s rather worrying attack on a couple of PSNI officers – http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4777764.stm – are likely revenge attacks by the UDA’s north Belfast grouping.

    Fortunately, the police officers appear to have escaped a tricky situation by firing a couple of shots off before the loyalist mob did more damage.

    Wonder if Nigel Dodds thought they were being “heavy-handed”, after all no bullets were fired at the Alexandra bar…

    I’d hate to be right, but there seem to be plenty of the usual ingredients in the mix for another UDA feud.

  • woof mcdog

    The Red Hand claim an attempted murder and some of you are blaming Daily Ireland and taxi drivers with vivid imaginations.

    Shame on you, no wonder this country is such a vile mess.

  • Crataegus

    Elfinto 4 (or whoever)

    Spot on. We should all stop making excuses for thugs, racketeers, drug dealers, pimps and murderers of whatever hue.

    We ALL have a role in changing the ethos, and ALL of us need to make it clear that this sort of behaviour is totally unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Thugs are simply thugs and their alleged political affiliations are irrelevant. We all need to treat them all with equal contempt.

    The taxi driver didn’t ask for this. Attempted murder is a serious matter so let’s unequivocally blame the perpetrators.

    Crataegus

  • briso

    PB said:
    —-
    > The gun jammed, a situation which seems to
    > happen to these guys quite a lot. Loyalists
    > can’t even get their act together sufficiently
    > to procure weapons which actually work.

    Which, if true, and there’s not much more than anecdotal evidence of it, that should call into question the level of threat they actually pose.

    btw.. another scoop by the Daily Ireland?
    —-

    Somebody given the moniker elfinto1 said:
    —-
    I would tend to agree with PB on this one not too much evidence one way or other. Any Tom, Dick or Continuity could make a call claiming Tom, Dick or The Continuity say’s yer men from the Red Hand did it, we do know some Taxi drivers have rather vivid imaginations!!
    —-

    There is a real threat. To suggest otherwise is pretty disgraceful. The guy had a gun put to the back of his head which the holder tried to fire twice.

    Please don’t make light of this. It was a terrifying ordeal no doubt and I felt a chill myself when I heard it. Have either of you any reason for calling him a liar? The Police seem to believe him.

    Maybe next time they’ll take a knife as well and then we can all be sure that there is a genuine threat.

    posted by Briso

  • elfinto

    I can claim responsibility for comments elfinto but not elfinto1, 2, 3, 4 etc.

    I’m glad to see that some others on this board can see the immorality and latent sectarianism of some of the remarks on this board which seek to downplay the activity of sectarian murder squads by insinuating that their target is a politcally motivated liar in spite of evidence (claim of responsibility) to the contrary. It’s a bit like calling rape victims sluts and liars.

    I call upon those who made such comments to stop muddying the waters by accusing others of sectarianism, to take responsibility for the import of their comments, to do the decent thing and withdraw them.

    elfinto

  • DK

    elfinto,

    Then presumably you’ll be withdrawing your very first, inflammatory comment on this board:

    “Yes Martin, they are still fully armed thanks to you, your mates in the FRU, MI5 and the apartheid regime.”

  • I wonder where Concerned Loyalist is at the moment? He doesn’t seem to have much to say on this matter, if you’re out there CL, what do you make of all this, you’re about the only person on here who refers to himself as a Loyalist and not just a Unionist, I’d like to hear your opinion?

  • ingrammartin

    Elfinto.

    Quote”Martin are’nt you the guy who touted on the FRU are’nt you the guy who sentenced loads of people to an early grave?”unquote

    This topic has nothing to do with me so stop playing the man and deal with the issue.

    For the record. I support 99% of all FRU operations. The operation to supply the Loyalist arms and the systematic murder of the States citizens I do not support and it is people likeme who have educated the publicto these abuses.

    In respect to Republoicans. Give me a break it was just like dealing with a Regt of the British Army. No different to Loyalism.

    The attempted murder of this man is a shot accross the bow and is wrong and should be condemned by all reasonable human beings including ex FRU handlers.

    Have a nice day.

    Martin

  • elfinto

    Jack,

    elfinto never said that.

    elfinto

    DK

    I don’t see anything inflammatory about my remark. I believe it was an appropraite response to ‘Martin Ingram’s’ opening remark in which he said that loyalism was strong. I firmly believe that the reason loyalist continue to exist is to carry out the dirty work of spooks and unionist politicians.

    Loyalists are still killing people – Carrick last week, Lisburn before that – and they are still fully armed. Of course, unionists don’t have much to say about that but if the IRA so much as farts they go apoplectic. It’s a scandal and a disgrace!

    Stop trivialising loyalist violence for political reasons!

    elfinto

  • Hey Martin,

    Was that you interviewed in the Sunday Tribune a few weeks back? You shouldn’t curse so much!

  • dodrade

    In recent years Loyalist Paramilitaries have done more damage to Unionism than Sinn Fein/IRA could ever hope to do. They are a cancer eating away at working class Unionist areas and must be cut out before they are destroyed completely. Unionist Politicians must also stop being so half hearted in their condemnations of Loyalist paramilitaries and realise they are the deadliest enemies of Unionism.

  • Realist

    According to the Daily Ireland, the perpetrators of this crime (Red Hand Defenders) have stated that the taxi driver targeted is a former PIRA prisoner, and that all former republican prisoners are now considered “legitimate targets again”.

    The paper claims they received a telephone call using a recognised code word.

  • rug

    It was reported today that the PSNI visited several taxi firms in Nationalist areas in the North of the city and warned owners and drivers of loyalist threats to kill them.