IMC information came from MI5

Brian Rowan reports that the IMC’s information which indicated that the IRA continued to possess a number of arms came from MI5. He also reports that the DUP is beginning to question the veracity of General De Chastellaine’s report last September.

  • Oilbhéar Chromaill

    “This (the intelligence briefings on IRA guns) is not a securocrat conspiracy,” the source continued.

    The clarification is useful. One just doesn’t know these days what’s a securocrat conspiracy and what isn’t.
    And it’s jolly good of a securocrat to provide the clarification. Case closed then.

    The ‘everybody knows’ bit is also funny. This is the classic line which nobody can counter – and which nobody can prove. So therefore this type of whispering behind arras’ gets reprinted without further investigation.

    The differnce between the IICD’s report and the IMC report is simple. They both received the briefings from the MI5 and the PSNI – the IICD investigated them and the IMC reprinted them without any investigation in the hope, perhaps, that they could remain relevant for another short few months (£625 per day, plus expenses is a powerful motivator, don’t you think?)
    The other assertion – that the DUP are beginning to question the veracity of the IICD report. Where has Rowan been for the past several months when the DUP have been constantly plugging away at the general and Rev Good and Fr Reid?

  • martin ingram

    The good General Could only report upon what the IRA told him they had, like I said on the radio before Christmas the General was sold a PUP. Thankfully we have an excellent Intelligent community who will vet and maintain surveillance of the criminals.

    The Intelligence community has a better understanding of the true estimation of the IRAs Arms and of course whether Arms have been retained and crucially how many.

    It is safer to rely upon our Security services who by and large have served us welll over the last thirty five years.

    Mick the Sinn Fein blogging committee reliance upon this aspect is as Pete would say become “tedious”.(£625 per day, plus expenses is a powerful motivator, don’t you think?)

    Republicans always examine the pound shillings and pence as stated above believing that everybody sufffers their lack of morals. Those in the IRA who stole millions from the Northern do not even get a mention from Oily, I wonder WHY? These people on the IMC are beyond reproach. The Irish Govt, the British Govt, and the American Govt appointed these welll respected people, do we really think these people are in it for a few hundred quid every three months or so. I do not think so.

    Martin.

    PS. The Northern Robbery caused more problems than it solved for Sinn Fein I wonder WHY?

  • fenian bastard

    “PS. The Northern Robbery caused more problems than it solved for Sinn Fein I wonder WHY?”

    Your style is getting tedious Martin. Why not save us all the suspense and write a book.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    “This (the intelligence briefings on IRA guns) is not a securocrat conspiracy,” the source continued.

    To paraphrase Jeremy Paxman’ ‘ why is this lying bastard lying to me’?

  • Glen Taisie

    I believe that “intelligence” has been supplied to the Brits by agents like Scapaticci,Donaldson and others.

    I also believe that the same agents also supply info to the IMC.

    Anybody disagree ?

  • martin ingram

    Quote”Your style is getting tedious Martin. Why not save us all the suspense and write a book.”Unquote

    Its on the way boy

    Martin

  • Betty Boo

    “Our security service” – Don’t you just love them. Particular when they get so familiar with you.

  • Oilbhéar Chromaill

    These people on the IMC are beyond reproach. The Irish Govt, the British Govt, and the American Govt appointed these welll respected people, do we really think these people are in it for a few hundred quid every three months or so. I do not think so.

    I don’t agree. Their records speak for themselves and they have publicly admitted that they don’t investigate the reports they received from the intelligence services (misnomer if ever I heard one) so why should I believe them. The Intelligence Services which, for instance, have been involved as an agencie provacateur in furthering the violence in Ireland in order to copperfasten its own position in the British Establishment and draw down ever increasing amounts of tax payers money.
    As for your tedious argument about the existence of a Sinn Féin ‘slugger’ committee, well the only committee I’m aware of is the one revealed by Sean McPhilemy a few years ago. Remember that Marty boy

    As for not mentioning the Northern Bank robbery – why should I? After all, it’s not relevant as it can’t be proven it was carried out by the IRA. There’s nothing to link it with the IRA or SInn Féin and the past year’s political events underline this.
    Do you think, seriously, that if the governments believed their position that Sinn Féin’s leaders knew that the IRA, allegedly, was going to carry out such a robbery, they would still be talking with them?
    Not a chance.
    But go on, carry on plugging your book.

  • Seano

    Martin Ingram

    From the BT article:

    “Everyone knows there is stuff out there,” a senior police source told the Belfast Telegraph.

    The source confirmed there was “significant intelligence” that the IRA had retained part of its arsenal, amounting to a range of weaponry in a number of areas.

    “You know the units that have been difficult,” the source said, adding that those units were not going to “roll over for Adams and McGuinness”.”

    We’re supposed to believe MI5 that, just because they say “everyone knows there’s stuff out there” and that, “those units were not going to roll over for Adams and McGuinness”, then they must be correct? Even if this so-called “intelligence” came from informers, do you really believe they would would be privy to the workings within the “tough units?”

    I doubt it very much.

  • DerryTerry

    Well served by the security services, anyone for weapons of mass destruction?

  • martin ingram

    Seano,

    Quote”Even if this so-called “intelligence” came from informers, do you really believe they would would be privy to the workings within the “tough units?” “Unquote

    The same tough units like Loughall or Gib 3?

    What that officer was saying that units like South Armagh and Tyrone would have held on to some arms to put two fingers up to Mr Adams who is not liked nor trusted.That retention is contraary though to the agreement, that is the GFA.

    Oily,

    Quote”I’m aware of is the one revealed by Sean McPhilemy” Unquote

    I am unsure what specifically you are refering to but I am more than happy to discuss the most unreliable book ever published and thankfully the publisher went bust and the author appologised after the legal actions by clarke and others . Shall we go off forum to do discuss ?

    As for the Northern Robbery. Do not be silly, trying to argue the IRA did not commit this act is being purile? even the Irish Govt makes that very clear. I suppose those Republicans caught burning money were just warming their hands Eh?

    Your friend Martin

  • martin ingram

    Terry?

    Quote” Well served by the security services, anyone for weapons of mass destruction” Unquote

    What in Derry?, you have about the same chance of finding a genuine IRA volunteer.

    Martin

  • Seano

    Martin Ingram

    “What that officer was saying that units like South Armagh and Tyrone would have held on to some arms to put two fingers up to Mr Adams who is not liked nor trusted.”

    Which is very conceivable, but that still doesn’t add up to real intelligence that they’ve retained arms. It’s too convenient for MI5 and the security forces to simply say that arms have been retained, when in fact, they don’t have to tell us why they’ve come to that conclusion. I mean, everbody knows they get their reports from the security sources, which is like Hamas reporting on Middle Eastern terror.

    If allegations are made, that most surely will throw a grenade into the process, then someone has to be held accountable. I know, I know, this is NI we are talking about.

    “The same tough units like Loughall or Gib 3?”

    Doesn’t necessarily mean that there was an informer within the cell.

  • DerryTerry

    MI, so the security services are still looking for WMD then?

  • J Kelly

    MI still playing we games. So every republican volunteer in Derry is a tout. Its interesting because a few weeks back your knowledge of Derry touts was very weak. You were asked very specific questions that even the dogs in the streets have some knowledge of and you declared to have knowledge. Another time when you use different aspects of your story to fit whatever you want believed at that time.

  • J Kelly

    You were asked very specific questions that even the dogs in the streets have some knowledge of and you declared to NO have knowledge.

    Sorry

  • Mickhall

    “These people on the IMC are beyond reproach.”
    posted by ‘martin ingram’

    If there is one lesson we all must learn about situations like the north of Ireland, no matter what side they are on, class they belong to, or position they hold, no one, and I mean no one is beyond reproach.

    In any case it is not whether the members of the IMC are honest or decent men, there backgrounds in the various State machines makes them unfit to serve on this body. Firstly because of their history they cannot help but be subjective when looking into PRM. Plus, and as important due to their backgrounds they do not have the confidence of the PRM nor a majority of those who vote for them.

    They had a slight chance of being acceptable if they were to name their sources, that they have chosen not to do so has annulled any respect they could have gained. Incidentally it also tells us their info has come from the various intelligence services and PSNI SB, all of whom serve the British governments political agenda and demand secrecy. The reason being they have no wish for the info they give to be tested in the public arena, as it might well turn out to be bullshit. Two wars [Falklands and Iraq]and two intelligence failures, not much of a reference for the security services to write home about. it took them nearly thirty years to get the upper hand against Belfast corner boys, they only escaped ridicule by convincing the worlds media that the Provos where the greatest guerilla army the world had known. [Tito’s partisans, the countless guerrilla armies who fought the Romans, the Vietcong, the list is endless]

    ‘martin’ may feel £525 per day is to be scoffed at and will have no influence on how members of Quangos vote or report, if so he obviously has no experience of these Quangos. I have seen millionaires argue over pennies when their expenses have not been what they thought they should be, I have also witnessed people living on very low incomes not bothering to pick up there expenses[members of disabled rights groups] As I said, no one is beyond reproach.

    Without getting to paranoid, when your dealing with politics, Lenin’s old maxim, question every thing to doubt is good advice.

  • Yoda

    If the IMC is given info by MI5, then it is hardly “independent”: MI5 have been involved in NI for ages. It’s not rocket science.

    Martin, can you not see why some people are sceptical of what you have to say when you accuse every IRA member in Derry of being a tout? Especially when your own book mentions several times the security forces tactic of labelling non-touts as touts in order to sow discord.

    You’ve also said elsewhere that SF should go down.

    When you make such statements, it’s not surprising people believe that you have an agenda.

  • martin ingram

    Mr Kelly,

    Quote” few weeks back your knowledge of Derry touts was very weak.” Unquote

    I did not say that what I said was in the case of a incident that I was asked about I gave an honest answer that I did not know anything about that case.

    Having worked in Derry for a good few years and been involved in some of the highest cases like Hegarty etc my experiance of Derry is well schooled.

    Indeed my next book will deal almost exclusively with Informers in Derry.

    Thanks for that opportunity Mr Kelly.

    Martin

  • martin ingram

    Yoda,

    Please show me were I have said every IRA man in Derry was/is a tout.

    ” Martin, can you not see why some people are sceptical of what you have to say when you accuse every IRA member in Derry of being a tout?Unquote.

    Ask an IRA man what they thought of Derry PIRA? come on tell me one major success ever carried out by Derry? then we shall examine the touts that corrupted this city.

    At the expense of getting accused of playing the man I will not go any further today but the day is coming just like it did for Freddy when you doubting thomas`s are going to once more say sorry Martin you were right again.

    PS. As for agenda, well blow me backwards arrested by the Brits lambasted by the loyalists and of course today I am labelled a securocrat by Sinn Fein. Some Agenda that.

  • Yoda

    As for agenda, well blow me backwards arrested by the Brits lambasted by the loyalists and of course today I am labelled a securocrat by Sinn Fein. Some Agenda that.

    Then perhaps it’s all to do with how you express yourself.

    Please show me were I have said every IRA man in Derry was/is a tout.

    You said it in reply to a poster above regarding the unlikelihood of finding WMD in Derry:

    What in Derry?, you have about the same chance of finding a genuine IRA volunteer.

    And, for the record, I believe what Harkin and you had to say regarding Freddie.

  • Betty Boo

    The IRA stands accused of everything bad one can possible image.
    And now they are criticized for not being successful in Derry. That is a new one.
    I suppose a lower loss of live is just not good enough for some on the their scale of success.

  • martin ingram

    Yoda,
    This is you quote.

    Martin, can you not see why some people are sceptical of what you have to say when you accuse every IRA member in Derry of being a tout?

    This is what I said. I did not say that every member of the IRA was an informer now did I.

    What in Derry?, you have about the same chance of finding a genuine IRA volunteer.

    Whats more the context of that reply was in Jest and any reasonable person would have picked up on that.

    Martin.

  • Yoda

    I did not say that every member of the IRA was an informer now did I.

    That was, arguably, your intention. I take it that you are retracting your statement above?

    Whats more the context of that reply was in Jest and any reasonable person would have picked up on that.

    Well, then, it would seem that your alleged sense of humour undermines the validity of what you have to say: it tends to look a lot like point-scoring rather than a substantive point.

  • martin ingram

    Yoda,

    I stand by my original post Thanks.

    Sometimes Humour is an integral part of educating those who are blind. You know the Arm Chair generals who know nothing.

    Martin.

  • Yoda

    So, you stand by something you claim you never said?

    Er…okay.

  • JD

    You claim to know a thing or two about Derry because you ran two touts, Hegarty and Carlin, if so, lets hear it. The first question I put to you that strayed from those to individuals you pleaded ignorance, so if your claiming you have vast knowledge about the IRA in Derry lets hear it, put up or shut up.

  • andy

    Diversions about touts aside, the main point here is that if the key source for the IMC is secret intelligence.
    I do take Martin’s point about the british intelligence apparatus in Northern Ireland being very strong. The stuff about WMDs is really a red herring here. I think all the “security forces” probably ran the most effective counter-insurgency programme in Europe if not the world.

    However, that doesn’t help us here. Partisan agencies can’t simply say “we say this” and expect a skeptical audience to accept them. By audience, I don’t just mean hard-core republicans
    but anyone vaguely distrustful of the role of secret government agencies.
    Can anyone think of a forum which could take in such information and effectively test it?

  • Yoda

    Partisan agencies can’t simply say “we say this” and expect a skeptical audience to accept them.

    Well said.

    You don’t have to be a shinner to have misgivings or even scepticism. And just because you’re sceptical doesn’t mean you cannot believe a word of the IMC report either.

    But the fact remains: a partisan and involved party cannot be truly independent or totally impartial.

  • JD

    Martin,

    Can I assume by your silence that you have taken the option to shut up, welcomes news for many.

  • Mickhall

    Yoda,

    I stand by my original post Thanks.

    Sometimes Humour is an integral part of educating those who are blind. You know the Arm Chair generals who know nothing.

    Martin.

    ‘martin’

    Have you ever considered you might be doing a Col Jones and are to close to the detail to see the bigger picture. How many of you fishers of men and other intel agencies served in Ireland during the period of 1969 to the current day. [I take it army intel, etc is still recruiting touts] Tens of thousands of man hours were put in by you and your former comrades thus when you go on about PRM being infiltrated with touts it surprises no one. If they were not would be the surprise, nor is it surprising given the length of the war that some of these people have remained active and risen to senior positions with the PRM.

    On the question of the IMC, as andy and yoda plus others have time and again pointed out, it is not an impartial body and the fact that you, an intelligent and in many ways thoughtful man refuse to accept this just shows your tunnel vision when dealing with this issue.[imo]

    regards.

  • west belfast resident

    Mick, I have a little problem with the first part of your post. Isn’t it a little like stating the obvious? Just an observation.

    To a point I agree with Andy here. His point re the intelligences agencies were very strong here, cannot be overlooked in this. What is the IMC to do? Discard all intelligence because it comes form partisian agencies. Aren’t all these agencies by their very nature partisian?

    Therefore does the logic runs something like this? The IMC if it is to be impartial must discard all information from partisian agencies such as the police SB Mil Intel and MI5, and get and colate its information from where? From SF sources or somewhere else?

    SF can hardly scream unfair if it is not engaging with the IMC and providing it’s own information, and not encouraging people to go to them with information?

    So what is to be done. Get rid of the IMC, and have no one to report to not just the two governments but the people of NI, as to the state of play regarding the behaviour of paramilitaries and their arsenals.

    It is also a bit odd, that if this info all came from MI5 we now have the British government defending the IRA and backing up De Chastalain anyway. This is the irony of the whole thing.

    It is Sinn Fein’s whinge that this body is outside the agreement, a cry that shows its double standards considering SF are very good at making side deals, like the OTR legislation.

  • topdeckomnibus

    Speaking as an armchair corporal I don’t know much. But what I know … I know.

    And, from what I know, your faith in MI5 is misplaced.

    I am going to write a book as well. There is this little lad, in East Anglia, suffering rickets and, as a consequence, crippled legs during his early years.

    As a young man he is in the Army (winning all the nobbly knees competitions) and the sergeant major briefs the lads about Irish situation.

    “Any questions lads ?”

    “Sah .. just to clarify .. loyalists are well nourished ?”

    “Yes laddie”

    “So they did not get rickets then ?”

    “Nah laddie what are you getting at ?”

    “I don’t want to go Sah”

    “What you don’t want to be a loyal sowja serving our sovereign lady the queen ?”

    “Not wiv legs like these sah ! I can’t help thinking about that villain Sean Garland you told us about. I think he might be the sort of bloke who would have sent me some vitamins when I was a nipper. Sort of correcting HM oversight with regard to my formative nutritional needs Sah !”

  • Mickhall

    It is also a bit odd, that if this info all came from MI5 we now have the British government defending the IRA and backing up De Chastalain anyway. This is the irony of the whole thing.

    Westbelfastresident

    Ah, you have hit the nail on the head, any info the IMC gains the British government is already privy to, so what is the purpose of the IMC?

    One cannot help but conclude it is perfidious albion at its old games. It wishes to be seen in the international arena as an independent arbiter who is not responsible for crashing the Assembly at will. Thus to keep this fiction going it sets up a body, the IMC to provide the means to justify this happening.
    The IMC provides the report, the Unionist respond on queue and the Assemble crashes or in the current situation is not revived.

    One cannot help thinking the British and Irish governments got a nasty shock when SF popularity rose considerably in both the north and south on entering the Stormont assembly government. I doubt they want a re-run of that, especially as elections in the ROI are due in the next year or so. Hence nothing but bad news days for SF these days.

    What goes down best with the electorate, Martin Maginness opens new school, or Martin Maginess accused of being tout like other SF leaders.

  • topdeckomnibus

    West Belfast Resident

    If you care to go to http://www.matron-mcgill-decd.com/ and find (link from About this site) “The Final Prayer of John Allen”

    I did submit this document to ECHR to act as a summary of remedies sought.

    General De Chasterlain did write to me and he clarified his terms of reference. He also reported to the Sec of State NI (then Paul Murphy) and I was supposed to be sent from Sec of State a position on why sabotage had not been included, in De Chasterlains brief, as a declarable weapon system.

    With regard to bomb and bullet. John’s concerns were about the 6th Thanet Rifle and Gun Range at Birchington Kent. And to whom Kent Police were issuing firearms certs.

    This touches on the arrests of 21 TA soldiers in 1987 (the preamble to Pat Monteaths book “Who Pays the Ferryman” Quill Publishing synopsis on web)

    The arrests were made under the Unlawful Drilling Act 1819.

    If the men were acting outside of lawful chain of command (the 1819 Act offence) then how can they enjoy exemption from De Chasterlains inquiries as members of the security forces ?

    I was told in 1987 (by case officer then DI George Rogers) that similar arrests were made in two other English counties.

    Whilst I am happy to be identified I cannot identify my witnesses.

    One of these is an ex Army specialist in Range Architecture surveying. So he is expert as well as being a witness of fact.

    He and his family appear to have come in for a bout of Kent Police intimdation in recent years but he is not waivering.

    Apart from seeing unlawful live fire and movement paramilitary training at the 6th Thanet Range he also, when an Infantry sergeant, had knowledge of a report within Army of the Kent TA men conducting training on military training areas with weapons they were not entitled to. And it seems these reports within the Army did not lead to the 1987 arrests. And the Infantry NCOs who had made the reports were amazed at the fact no charges were brought against the TA paramilitaries.

    The account was that they had possession of semtex. One TA corporal went to police when he finally became suspicious after being asked to store semtex in his own home at Ramsgate.

    I hope you find this interesting.

    The neighbouring landowner to the 6th Thanet Range called in MOD over the heads of Kent Police in 1995 and Brihadier Hague withdrew the range licence for irresponsible operation.

    So who had the Uzi sub machine guns in use at that range ?

    David Phillips the even handed Chief constable (sic) refused to accept a crime complaint or to investigate. Just the type of man for the Rosemary Nelson inquiry eh ?

    Well that is why I objected to his deployment (amongst other reasons) and Ronnie Flanagan contacted Home Office to try to expedite their response to John Allen and my complaints.

    And David Phillips came home !

    And I received a phone call from Cllr William Hayton of Kent Police Authority attempting to threaten me. Hayton also phoned the above mentioned witness. Kent Police refused crime complaints against Cllr Hayton for conspiring to pervert justice.

    But just for fun I laid a common law information of misprision of treason against him for Thanet magistrates to dodge.

    I refuse to accept a letter from their chief clerk as satiisfying the law. I want a reply signed by two JPs. And they dont seem to want to sign …..

  • Betty Boo

    West Belfast Resident,

    Is it possible that this controversy is about the word independent in IMC?
    Independent means literally – not hanging from. Leaving in a moment ropes and uncut ties behind all four of them are former something. Former Assembly Speaker, former Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, former Secretary General of the Department of Justice in Dublin and former Deputy Assistant Commissioner in the Metropolitan Police. Three out of four do not present an independent and objective assessment because of their former involvement and interest in the IRA.

    And then there is their own statement on their website:
    “In the course of our work we have met the following categories of organisations of people in Ireland North and South: political parties; government officials; police; community groups; churches; charities; pressure groups and other organisations; businesses; lawyers; journalists; academics; victims; private citizens, individually and as families; and former combatants.”

    And they didn’t.

  • martin ingram

    JD,

    Quote”You claim to know a thing or two about Derry because you ran two touts, Hegarty and Carlin, if so, lets hear it. The first question I put to you that strayed from those to individuals you pleaded ignorance, so if your claiming you have vast knowledge about the IRA in Derry lets hear it, put up or shut up”Unquote

    As an office FRU ( W) had in excess of forty five Agents in Derry during my time many today are still working for the good of society.Without doubt one or two more will be added to the asset list by now though. The office was manned by approx 12 FRU OPERATORS. Carlin and Hegarty are the only two exposures in thirty five years service. That is not a bad record.

    Carlin was betrayed by a Rogue MI5 Agent( Bethany)) who worked for the soviets and a relative of my friend Martin passed this information from inside a London jail to the Ra. Before the Ra could move on Carlin we had time for a full Irish Breakfast a large coffee and quick read of the paper before we went and got him because we knew exactly who and when the Ra was going to go and get him.

    Hegarty. Hegarty was recruited in to the IRA from the Stickies by my friend Martin, once more we had the opportunity to get him out before the bells rung after the largest ever find of arms on the Island of Ireland.

    The death of hegarty is interesting and once more my mate features but Eh lets not play the man here.

    So you see JD just using the examples you cite 35 years and not ONE AGENT OF THE FRU EVER COMPROMISED by the IRA I wonder WHY eh .

    As for Derry PIRA or indeed Martin McGuinness as an IRA Operator. Ask any real genuine IRA man what Martin ever did ? the charade of Martin is interesting and all formed part of the elaborate game. As for Derry PIRA, Derry was very good and interesting posting, I enjoyed living in the community and going out on the night. The only thing that Irratated me slightly was the Ra blowing up the White horse every few months it interepted my social life. Not enough though to have a word and ask them to stop it . Every now and again you have to let theboys play with their toys, it is all part of the game.

    Mick Hall.

    Your Quote”On the question of the IMC, as andy and yoda plus others have time and again pointed out, it is not an impartial body and the fact that you, an intelligent and in many ways thoughtful man refuse to accept this just shows your tunnel vision when dealing with this issue.[imo] Unquote

    I have a view that the IMC has a job to do, it is not perfect but the Irish Govt are not going to allow a tool that it jointly created by them to go rogue. The Irish provide a great deal of Intelligence to the IMC especially about the issue of IRA Arms/Finances etc because most of the serious bunkers are sited in the Republic and most of its finacial assets are in the South. For example Letterkenny as been redeveloped this last five of Ten years by a well known property Developer who own pubs etc in Gweedore.This redevelopment of a major Irish town is funded by dirty IRA money.Interestingly this man was named and linked in the this weeks Sunday Indo to Mr Flynn.

    Once more Mick me and you will agree to disagree but the good news is I am in your neck of the woods for that drink around about the 26th or 27th of this month if that is Ok.

    Martin

  • west belfast resident

    Betty Boo, No I don’t think it is just about the word independent, where people have not left their ties uncut. Since we have had an Orange man now who sits upon the Parades Commission, it is possible to say that he has not cut his ties with the orange order but the PC still banned the walk down Garvaghy Road. For myself that was a pleasant surprise, and I think it illustrates the point we are discussing.

    Mick writes, what goes down best with the electorate Martin McGuinness opens a new school or Martin McGuinness is accused of being a tout like other SF leaders.

    Again Mick it is only my humble opinion that Martin McGuinness did rather well as regards veotes to get to be education minister. Indeed I believe he did rather well in a few elections before he was accused of being a ‘tout like other SF leaders’. Infact I would go as far as to say he would do rather less now after as you put it ‘being accused of being a tout like other SF leaders’.

    BTW Mick have I missed something? What other SF leaders are we talking off here?

    topdeckomnibus, I have read your post and I am not sure of your ‘specific’ point. But suffice to say-about Sf placing before the IMC their own evidence and People. I will say this.

    SF as mature politicians can surely see that the IMC is an obstacle to their participation in power. Now if they want it so badly, which is how it looks in the media then a good idea would be for them to engage in a more full way with this body. Perhaps then the damage the IMC can inflict would be less. Perhaps they could learn from the Orange man who now sits on the parades body. Either SF engage with the IMC or it will have no choice but to accept their decisions and consequently a barrier on SFs road to Stormont where they waqnt to sit in their ivory tower to administer British Rule in Ireland.

  • Betty Boo

    West Belfast Residence,

    It seems a logical step to take and they just might. But then the issue of bias and incompetence will come up again.
    It is like my experience I had with this foreman, who thought because I’m a woman I have no clue and told me I shouldn’t have put a shower in my bathroom …
    Next time he came with three more men to assist him with moral support. What didn’t help him much either.
    To cut it short, he is still avoiding me and when I need something checked or fixed his name wouldn’t ever enter my mind because I consider him to be a bias, incompetent, little soandso.
    Sinn Fein might be in a similar position as far as the IMC is concerned.

  • JD

    Martin,

    The figures are yours, and you surely wouldn’t exaggerate the old squads’ effectiveness, would you?

    By the way, how many soldiers in Derry died as result of Frankos weapons after you knew about them?

    The main IRA in Derry over the last 35 years involved blowing up the White Horse a few times, I doubt you had too many gin and tonics during your tour.

  • west belfast resident

    Betty they might but then they must accept the consequences of their decision. Which is the IMC are there and are biased,but they are also an obstacle to SF on the road to stormont. Either talk to them and have damage limitation, or don’t.

    As for the foreman, I had a similar experience myself.

  • Betty Boo

    West Belfast Resident,

    Fair enough. Do you know by any chance how the fluffy four got selected and accepted for the job? You know, maybe something like a job application which has to be publicised and an interview. What I doubt in this cause. How do you get in?

  • west belfast resident

    Hmmm Betty, are you looking for the job LOL. truthfully I can’t remember. Either way if they were appointed then SF should being the austute politicians they are -ought to made sure they’d have had their say. Or if the job was open to applications they could have had their own man in there.

    Either way a mute point. As I said they either engage with them now for damage limitation or they don’t.

  • martin ingram

    JD,

    Not being a Gin N tonic fan you are right on this one , now if you had said Smithwicks then I would certainly be guilty of being over indulged. I was what you may describe as a ” Regular”

    Quote”The main IRA in Derry over the last 35 years involved blowing up the White Horse a few times, I doubt you had too many gin and tonics during your tour.”Unquote

    On a serious note you make a good point re : weapons.

    Quote”By the way, how many soldiers in Derry died as result of Frankos weapons after you knew about them?”Unquote

    I accept your point and it will feature sooner or later when the subject of collusion is dealt with either in a public inquiry (North or South) or in the press. I hate loss of life whether that be British soldier or IRA volunteer, sometimes I accept it is difficult to control events 100% for you would need to be Superman to achieve this feat. That said I maintain the issue of collusion both Loyalist and Republican collusion is the greatest offence of the troubles.

    Martin.