McGuinness: IMC’s winks, nods and innuendo

A clearly angry Martin McGuinness kicked off a press conference in Belfast just now by refering to the IMC as the non independent monitoring commission. He ruled it as having no place in the political process, that it clearly was set up to target Sinn Fein, that since its sources, he alleged, were in the Special Branch it was nothing more than a proxy for political policing and was operating an anti-Republican agenda. He then called for clear evidence to be produced, saying that in a democratic society, people should be accepted as innocent until proved guilty and asked “Where are these IRA men, what are their names?” He finished by noting that the apparent clash in the IIDC and the IMC over the accusation that some weapons still remained in the hands of the IRA, and said he refused to accept that the allegations had come from anywhere but Special Branch. Finally he called on the media not to be lazy, and take what he called the “winks, nods and innuendo” of this morning’s report.

  • alfredo

    removed

  • Pete Baker

    Finally he called on the media not to be lazy, and take what he called the “winks, nods and innuendo” of this morning’s report

    ..nor this afternoon’s rants?

  • Poor alfredo

    Not one piece of evidence to support your allegations.

  • heck

    glad to see Martin has found his B**ls and telling it like it is. This report is nonsense and this “independent” monitoring commision wound up

  • David

    Of the two nationalist parties only the SDLP do not have conflict of interest when interpreting the information today and can think about the issues from the intersts of the broad nationalist community rather than just some vested interests within it.

  • martin ingram

    Gsket,

    Quote”Not one piece of evidence to support your allegations.”Unquote

    No prizes for what this is about? Eh Chris. My friend Martin?.

    How are things Chris? is the IMC what you expected>

    Do not get despondent my friend after all as Johnny Logan is famous for saying ” Whats Another Year”

    Marty

  • c’mon marty behave, you’re better than that.
    It’s been an overwhelming success, just about every politician has acknowledged the immense change by the IRA bar the DUP.
    Don’t tell us you’ve decided to throw your hat in with that lot.

  • martin ingram

    Spirit.

    Quote”Don’t tell us you’ve decided to throw your hat in with that lot.Unquote

    Not while I have an hole in my arse.

    Martin

  • Mick Fealty

    Martin, Ball Please!!

  • Oilbhéar Chromaill

    Of the two nationalist parties only the SDLP do not have conflict of interest when interpreting the information today and can think about the issues from the intersts of the broad nationalist community rather than just some vested interests within it.

    The problem with the SDLP is that it has put its own survival ahead of everything else and right now all its chips are riding on the chance that the DUP and the UUP will take it on board in some talking shop so that it can thread water to the next election.

    Of course then will come the crunch.

    And if you think the SDLP has no vested interest, David, what do you think of the IICD position which vindicates the republican position. What vested interest is being served there?

    The IMC on the other hand is anxious to keep on reporting – who would throw their hats at a £625 per day ‘job’ plus expenses? who wouldn’t want it to continue as long as possible?

    No-one except the tax payer – me and you – who’re paying for this Monitoring Charade.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    The Alderdice argument seems to be that we have to take it on his word that he and the other quango members are truely independent. He is also asking us to accept at face value that the assessments given to him are factual thus allowing the IMC to reach the conclusions that they do.

    Because of the lack of transparency it is only right to look at the background of the type of people Alderdice asks us to believe. The various intelligence services who have lied and murdered for the best part of 30 years. Central of course is the PSNI.

    The same PSNI who lied after the theft of the details of 400 people from Castlereagh in April 2004. The same PSNI who told the SDLP’s Alex Attwood that the person who took the details took them for ‘research purposes’. The same PSNI who eventually travelled around Belfast before Xmas to eventually tell people that unionist paramilitaries were in possession of their details.

    They lied over this issue for 18 months, they lied over this issue even while the IMC were compiling this report.

  • Realist

    If only we had someone as independent as say Father Reid on the IMC eh?

  • martin ingram

    Pat,

    I would not go down the route of who is the worst liar ? because Republicans win that one hands down.

    Martin

  • Mick Fealty

    Pat,

    This is neither a facetious or trivial question.

    When you say Alderdice’s “argument seems to be that we have to take it on his word that he and the other quango members are truly independent”.

    Is this not precisely the premise that Martin McGuinness used when he told the public that the IRA said they did not rob the Northern Bank?

  • martin,
    who is the worst liar?
    not true, republicans don’t hide who they are.
    The DUP mask their bigotry in self-righteousness.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Of course Mick, the archives of this very site are proof of the incredulity that some posters attached to Mc Guinness’s statement.

    What cannot be understated is the power that the Britsh placed in the hands of the IMC, a power that Alliance’s Alderdice could never attain through the ballot box.
    Given that power it is only right to question the bona fides of those in the IMC and the sources they quote as fact. The lack of transparency of the workings of the quango is underlined by the statements of Alderdice that amounts to ‘trust me I know what i’m doing’.

    I have given a very real and contemporary example of the PSNI lying for the best part of 18 months, even while this current report was being compiled, unsurprisingly not queried by anyone.

    The direct and it is direct (despite Alderdices huffing and puffing) questioning of the IMC take on things by the IICD cannot be overstated. Where the IMC can be openly queried by an outside agency it has been and the IICD are standing behind their assessment. After that we still have Alderdice stating ‘trust me I know what i’m doing’.

  • Gsket,

    Quote”Not one piece of evidence to support your allegations.”Unquote

    No prizes for what this is about? Eh Chris. My friend Martin?.

    How are things Chris? is the IMC what you expected>

    Do not get despondent my friend after all as Johnny Logan is famous for saying “ Whats Another Year”

    Marty

    It looks like someone is upset that they are not centre stage.

    Your deluions of grandeur are growing by the day.

    Alfredo has no evidence for his wild claims which is why I suspect the moderator pulled them.

    Of course the IMC is what Republicans expected. The IMC is nothing more than the public mouth of Securocrats and Spooks.

    Please lay off the “my friend” crap!

    You are a bottom feader, nothing more!

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Since the outing of Donaldson a plethora of so called security experts have come on this site and stated how the IRA was infiltrated from top to bottom by informers. They stated that the IRA leadership has been aware of this for more than a decade that the whole organisation had been compromised. In fact they left a lot of these people alone because the scale odf infiltration would be embarrassing.
    Given that the IRA was aware of the level of infiltration how could they possibly hope to keep the concealment of weapons secret?

  • alfredo

    Removed. [Valid criticism is fine. Just trying staying inside the law when you next make a comment – mod].

  • alfredo

    You are out of order and clearly unbalanced!

    Pat

    I agree

    However if the IRA isn’t infiltrated from top to bottom (and they are not) that would make ole Marty Ingram a liar and a fraud. A person so consumed by his own self-importance and ego-tripping that he invents stories in order to appear relevant.

    All these “security experts” AKA Spooks are as reliable as theory that the earth is flat.

  • headmelter

    I await with intrepidation the production of some credible evidence to support the IMC report.

    Martin,

    your posts are becoming so tiresome I now jump to the monicer in order to save myself the time and energy ofreading them.

  • Kathy C

    Hi all,

    I find it rather ironic that Martin McGuiness who loves to give cover to the brits by not naming names and letting them hide under the term ‘Securocrats” now is having a hissy fit about and demanding the brist give names of the IRA men the brits are accusing….ones little ironies of life for martin mcguiness.

  • martin ingram

    Pat,

    Quote”Since the outing of Donaldson a plethora of so called security experts have come on this site and stated how the IRA was infiltrated from top to bottom by informers.”Unquote

    I understand you are not refering to me here Pat, because I have been saying this since 1999 when at the time nobody would believe me. Different now though even Republicans ask me to help now. Now thats not some Johnny come lately is it Pat? or are you suggesting it was all part of the long game.

    Like the Sunday Indo said a few weeks ago I have a record of getting it right and that`s not just in the Freddy Scap case which your friends in Sinn Fein still can not admit to . Shame on the Republican families who are asking their leaders for the truth and what do they do ? keep lying.

    I enjoy all types of Shinners, always had a soft spot for them. I especially like the Chris Gaskins of this world. A subject close to Chris is the CRJ.

    Quote IMC”Those who have exerted this pressure are sometimes also known for their paramilitary connections”Unquote

    I understand the IMC also make the point in the report that CRJ`s are being used by Republicans to maintain a grip on their communities. Just like I told you a few weeks ago on this board.Care to comment Chris.

    As for Martin, well time will tell on that one. Be patient maybe another book in that one.

    Martin

  • I especially like the Chris Gaskins of this world

    Only one of them and he doesn’t like bottom feaders!

    I understand the IMC also make the point in the report that CRJ`s are being used by Republicans to maintain a grip on their communities. Just like I told you a few weeks ago on this board.

    All that proves is what I have stated already.

    The IMC is nothing more than the mouthpiece for securocrats and spooks such as yourself.

  • steve48

    question no one has yet asked. could IICD and IMC both be correct. IICD refer to what the Provos had IMC picking up on what they have now i.e. new weapons procured since Sept.

  • Betty Boo

    Findings of flint stone have been reported from Derry.

  • andy

    not sure if this is the right thread, but why aren’t the Official IRA mentioned by the IMC?
    If memory served there was a shooting in (east?) Belfast attributed to them a few months ago. I can’t remember all the details but it was mentioned by Pat McL and a couple of others at the time.
    As well as that I thought they were believed to be involved in extortion, counterfeiting etc.

    As the IMC report mentions stuff as relatively mundane (unless you’re the victim) as assault I thought the above would get a mention…

  • Seano

    Removed.

  • Sean

    Martin is fooling nobody but his party hacks with his mock anger.

    Come on SF, give up the crime and let serious grown up politics begin,

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    Seano, ahhh just let MI6 (martin ingram) ramble…there is nothing he would probably like more than ending up like Eamon Collins…but why give him the publicity or the notarity.

    I would like to bring the discusion back to martin mcguiness…not martin ingram…
    didn’t anyone think it odd that martin mcguiness wants and even tried to bait the brits into naming people as IRA….doesn’t that break some sort of IRA code?
    Let see, the brits outed the informer donaldson (spit spit spit) and now martin mcguiness wants the brits to out IRA members…yep intereting indeed. I’m sure in the IRA green book there is a rule against that.

  • Richard Dowling

    We know who the members of the Independent Monitoring
    Commission are. But we still do NOT know who P O Neill is.
    The Provisional IRA uses language the same way that the
    President of Iran does. It means what they want it to mean,
    and they then depend on useful idiots within its sphere of
    attraction and influence to bang the bongo drums of support.

    I notice that yesterday, it was quick to point out that it has been
    faithful to what it promised last year when it “put arms beyond
    use”. The trouble, as always, is that it asks others (like you
    and me) to also put our critical faculties “beyond us”.

    Otherwise, we will be accused by people like Sean McManus
    (on Capitol Hill) or Martin McGuinness (who left the Provos in
    the 70s!) of being unhelpful to the peace process.

  • martin ingram

    Seano,

    “Martin Ingram’s arrogance could land him in the world of Eamon Collins. No?” “Smile”

    Grow up, Eamon Collins was a brave principled man who was murdererd by IRA criminals some of whom are agents of the state?

    stop playing the man and deal with the issues. I have never met Jim Cusack but he wrote that piece because it is factual. The truth seems to disturb many Republicans, Loyalist , HMG I wonder why?

    Kathy C

    Quote”didn’t anyone think it odd that martin mcguiness wants and even tried to bait the brits into naming people as IRA….doesn’t that break some sort of IRA code?
    Let see, the brits outed the informer donaldson (spit spit spit) and now martin mcguiness wants the brits to out IRA members…yep intereting indeed. I’m sure in the IRA green book there is a rule against that.”Unquote

    I know you are American and are many miles away but your Naievity in these matters is astounding.

    Martin McGuinness broke all the rules years ago by having secret meetings with the Brits, these meetings were not AUTHORISED BY THE PIRA LEADERSHIP. Cleverly this ground was covered by the late eighties with the Brooke letters. Well they thought it was clever?

    As for the green book. The IRA`s s own internal document governing the rules of the movement. Clearly since the IRA decommissioned OUTSIDE THE TERMS OF THE GREEN BOOK at the request of McGuinness and Adams the Green book is no longer in use.

    P.S.Eamon Collins book Killing Rage is a good read, his family receive the royalties to this book so go out and buy one to support his familiy.

  • Dermot McMorrow

    Poor Martin McG’. Sinn Fein have always been honest, truthful and respectable having no part in anything other than good old fashioned patriotic behavious. Their anger at IMC reports is understandable, since they have no other way of excusing ongoing armament, criminality and punishment beatings.

    Honestly though lets hope Sinn Fein+their close but not related military wing the IRA (murdered approx 1800 people,buts hey, whats a silly statistic) continue in their patriotic work to free our Republic….

  • James White

    If Sinn Fein are to be believed these “Securocrats” and “spooks” are indeed terrible people and I have to agree with them because they wouldnt tell lies.
    However could someone please inform an uninformed Dundalk man (who incidentally has seen the immense wealth of local IRA men grow unexplainably in recent times) what these securocrats/spooks people have to gain by “destroying” the peace process?
    Do they do for richess, fame, sex (three big motivators which Denis Donaldson seemed to reat to) a better society for their children, a place in government….

  • Richard Dowling

    PS. When I say putting our critical faculties BEYOND USE,
    I mean it metaphorically, of course. Unlike the Provisional IRA,
    whose campaign of murder extended to all whose lives were
    seen as a challenge to the Sinn Fein-IRA managementof the
    Republican narrative.

    So who,if anybody, is NOW in charge of the Provisional IRA?
    And why is our Government and our President asking us to put
    the Proto Provos of 1916 (as Kevin Myers calls them) back at
    the heart of our lives and allegiances —- as Sinn Fein is also
    asking us to do?

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    Martin Ingram (MI6), of course mcguiness isn’t following the rules of the green book…but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply…it just means it isn’t being followed….doesn’t mean new leadership can’t come in and follow it….

    as for eamon collins…never really liked what I read about the guy…. I found it appalling that it was reported he had his wife go out to repaint the fence all the time when different sayings about his being an informer were painted on the thing. To me, if he wanted to be an informer for the brits…and then opted to live in a republican town…then when there was stuff painted on his fence…he should have been man enough to go paint it himself instead of sending out his woman….nah….never liked him. I wouldn’t buy his book to support his family…just like I wouldn’t eat at martin mcguiness’s wife’s resturaunt to support his family…

  • Seano

    Kathy_C

    Not to get of subject here, but I tend to agree with your thoughts on Collins. M.I. goes on about how brave and principled he was, but fails to understand what he actually became. He knew well the potential consequences of becoming an informer/tout, yet in his so-called “brave and principled” state, he decided to toss every one of his comrades under the bus and expected his amnesty to hold, regardless of his arrogance in breaking it.

    It was stated in his book by IRA volunteer John Joe, during his last meeting with Collins: “Maybe you think we’re the boy scouts?”
    And that “You’re an embarrassment we can’t afford to have.”

    I’d say Collins found out the truth in that.

  • loyalist

    Let see, the brits outed the informer donaldson (spit spit spit) and now martin mcguiness wants the brits to out IRA members…yep intereting indeed. I’m sure in the IRA green book there is a rule against that.

    What do you think this is? Paint-balling? Any Republican activity will be met with an immediate and terrible response by re-armed and radicalised loyalists. And well the provos know it. Or to put it in a way you might understand Kathy, have you ever seen the “movie” Braveheart? Green book indeed, IRA men haven’t the brains to read, what would they need a green book for?

  • Reader

    Kathy_C : isn’t following the rules of the green book…but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply…it just means it isn’t being followed….doesn’t mean new leadership can’t come in and follow it….
    You are talking about the green book as though it was carved in stone. It can be re-written, can’t it? Then who is allowed to change it – the Irish Government perhaps? Gerry Adams? You? What is its status, and where does it get its authority?

  • martin ingram

    Saeano

    Quote”It was stated in his book by IRA volunteer John Joe, “Unquote

    Oh Yes my mate John Joe ex Royal Marine and lets say ” Friend”

    As for Collins. He made one statement and then withdrew that statement. He was never an informer unlike those Boy scouts in the Security Department who like some of his killers were Agents of the British state. People like Seano do not know what or who they are talking about, that is what is sad here.

    Your Friend Marty.

  • Seano

    Martin Ingram

    “As for Collins. He made one statement and then withdrew that statement.”

    You make it sound like he just said a few words and then withdrew them, when in reality, that one so-called statement contained a hell of a lot of information on his comrades.

    “People like Seano do not know what or who they are talking about.”

    Tis true, Martin. I don’t realy know a whole lot about Collins, except what I’ve read about him in his book. And supposedly in his own words.

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    Loyalist, yes I have seen the movie BRAVEHEART but I don’t understand what you’re trying to say about it in regards to the green book? But your comment about the IRA not having the brains to read was cute…. As a loyalist..you are loyal to the queens gov’t…and the queen’s gov’t is a nuclear power on the UN Security Council. Big stuff indeed…yet it was the IRA that fought this UN Security Council nuclear power to a stalemate…and it was the IRA that had your PM’s living in fear…and it was the IRA that had the british army unable to walk the queens highway in parts of Armagh….their actions…prove they can read ;o).

    Reader, I would think the authority of the green book is based on the men and women who had to take oaths on that book and who vowed to follow the said terms of the book. Now, I’m sure they can do what ever they want including change the book or even get rid of it….but I would think if people vowed to do certain things…and then some get away with violating the terms while others keep those terms…well, they have a problem.

  • Richard Dowling

    Let’s see. The Provisional IRA has “put arms beyond use”.
    That’s good of them. And apart from the odd murder, has
    dependended on a bunch of usel idiots to put a good gloss on
    their actions, intentions and the magnitude of their seismic
    shifts. But the fact remains that even if they were to become
    paragons of virtue overnight (and there’s little danger of that)
    they would still be only entitled to a level playing field (south of
    the border, certainly). And NOT a guaranteed place in the
    Government or governance of this country. Sorry about that,
    Ger! Take YOUR place in line.