McGuinness: the importance of inclusion…

Martin McGuinness is in Sri Lanka. In this interview he lays out what he believes are the elements of success of the Northern Irish peace process.

  • harry flashman

    First item on Star News Asia tonight is the killing of several Sri Lankan troops, seems like the ceasefire is breaking down and a return to civil war is on the way, Marty better get his bags packed.

  • seabhac siulach

    ‘…elements of success of the Northern Irish peace process’

    Some (many?) would argue that the process has neither concluded nor yet been proven to be a success…we still do not have a power sharing executive and are unlikely to have one for years or ever (based on the latest reports of the expected findings of the IMC)

    A bit early then to be exporting the secrets of ‘success’ the six county peace process when it is slowly but surely falling apart through the short-sighted actions of the usual unionist suspects. A process that is not moving forward must, by definition, be in reverse. That is the situation here.

    Perhaps we will have Sri Lankans coming over here in future years to give us some tips…

  • shamo

    If Slugger is to remain a site of choice for those interested in engaging in intellectual discourse, then libelous comments from the likes of “Westbelfastboy” canot keep appearing on the site. Remember, it is very conventient for British psy-ops officers to manipulate the rather liberal internal monitoring on Slugger for negative ends, through the convenience of anonymous posts.

    Also, there is a pathetic, facile schadenfreude in many of the comments criticising SF that ill behoves the site. People like bog exile, who joke about the Tsunami, really should be suspended from comments.

  • BogExile

    Shamo,

    So you think a bit of admittedly juvenile humour reveals ‘British Psy Ops’ involvement? Jesus. Perhaps is exposes the delicate republican rump of commentators who are hyersensitive to discussion being subverted a wee bit.

    Being lectured by a Republican on Schadenfreude is a bit like being given child care tips from King Herod.

    I’ll raise my game if you’ll lower yours 😉

  • martin ingram

    Shamo,

    What exactly was libelous?

  • shamo

    I have no objection to frivolous commentary Bog Exile, but I do to foundless allegations being propagated by former (???) Brit agents like Martin Ingram/MI6 and then being passed around by every nay-sayer like snuff at a wake.

    As for your ‘juvenile humour’ re the Tsunami, I think I have too much respect for the British forces to suggest that even they could stoop to such levels. It’s just infantile and offensive little man.

  • Mick Fealty

    Can we stick the subject in hand! Top and second comments removed. I don’t know that any of the comments were libellous, but they were certainly ad hominem.

    It is fairly routine in politics to dismiss what your opponents say, by drawing attention to some reason why they should not be listened to. A dialogue of the deaf usually ensues.

    That politicians and other public figures do it routinely elsewhere does not mean that it should be indulged in here!

    Now lighten up please, and get on with the game!!

  • shamo

    “It is fairly routine in politics to dismiss what your opponents say, by drawing attention to some reason why they should not be listened to. A dialogue of the deaf usually ensues.” Indeed, that’s why we shouldn’t make unfounded allegations.

    “That politicians and other public figures do it routinely elsewhere does not mean that it should be indulged in here!
    Now lighten up please, and get on with the game.”
    I haven’t heard any politicians calling Martin McG what posters here are calling him.
    As for lightening up, isn’t this statistically the most depressing day of the year? I find your flippant remarks offensive to those suffering depression 😉

  • Betty Boo

    Seabhac,

    I’m not so big on patience either and would have wished for more progress in the past ten years. But then I look at the comments here on Slugger and I’m surprised you got as far as you did. Even if two people agree on one issue they dispute each others way of expressing it. Never mind if you can’t agree at all.
    So it seems to me that the only way to avoid unfair or exclusive steps is talking, arguing and negotiating through every one of those issues. And by the looks at it, I’m quietly confident that you will get there by the time when I will take my first space vacation. But it has to be done right or you mess it up and it will take twice as long.

    As far as Martin McGuinness’ trip to Sri Lanka is concern, I thought that it was only a question of time.

  • oceallaigh

    “I don’t know that any of the comments were libellous, but they were certainly ad hominem.”slug..
    The rule here should be that you shouldn`t say anything about a person that you wouldn`t personally say to their face .We all know that accusations of “toutery” are very libellous and damaging especially in the north of Ireland and are now being used by the enemies of Republicanism to sow the seeds of further discord.If I were to accuse Fealty of being a state agent/tout for facilitating a blog that allowed other state agents like the weasel Grantham to spread his black propaganda under many aliases I am sure he would be the first to head to the solicitors office ,that being said of course I would never make such a scurrilous accusation as we all know it is sometimes enough to tarnish a good reputation.

  • martin ingram

    Oceallaigh,

    It is NOT LIBEL to accuse anybody of being an Agent of the State.

    It is your civic duty.

    Martib

  • oceallaigh

    Well of course if I knew for sure who the British state agents/touts were working in Ireland I would have no hesitation in identifying them but to accuse a Nationalist or Republican falsely of being a British Agent is more than hitting below the belt and you would have to be very naieve not to understand the implications .

  • Shamo

    It is trason to the Irish Republic to become an agent of a subversive occupying force. You, Mr Ingram, may have a ‘civic duty’ to counter-democratic, counter-revolutionary despots like Thatcher, but don’t assume it is acceptable in this country. Get up the yard ye dirty little brussel sprout!

    Up the Republic!

  • interesting point from McGuiness..
    In our case, we have a vision of the future which is that there will be all island governmental bodies, a wide range of human rights equality,

    What ever happened to an vision of an all-Ireland government not just bodies.

  • martin ingram

    Shamo % Oceallaigh,

    You see lads this is were you and your arguments fall down.

    Northern Ireland whether you or I like it or not is a part of the uk. The Republic renounced articles 2&3 and the GFA makes clear the matter of consent is the basis to deal with this issue. Incidently, the GFA would also be true if say a majority voted for a UI and for some unknown reason ten years later a new Majority voted for a return to the Union.Now would that not be an interesting one? After all the GFA is based upon consent.

    Martin is a citizen of the UK he pays taxes to the UK . The courts have ruled on this issue in regards to being called or termed Agents of the State, it is your civic duty and is not a matter for the courts.

    Martin.

  • onanothermanswounds

    Martin Ingram
    Tell me how agents like you select people in ‘other parts of the uk’ for assasination as you and yours have done here in Ireland?

  • martin ingram

    Onanothermanswounds,

    I have no idea comrade, I have never directly participated in that activity. That said it would be helpful if you understood the difference between an Agent and a Handler.

    Should you experiance any further problems understanding this subject feel free to ask off Forum and I will do my best to educate you.

    Martin

  • oceallaigh

    Martin McG travels on an Irish passport and is an Irish citizen by birthright like most non-Unionists born in the north of the island .Just because we still live under foreign occupation does not mean we have to accept the the citizenship of the occupier.A large part of the Agreement was recognising the cultural rights of the minority population within the artificial statelet known as Northern Ireland not an acceptance that we would all now be British .

  • onanothermanswounds

    Ach comon now Marty, modesty has never been one of your points never mind your strong points. Is this the same man who on another thread was saying to people ‘ go on ask me anything?’, is this the same man who treats people lives as if they are pieces in a chess game, is this the same man who I have accused in the past of playing GOD? Do not tell me that FRU also have a blog monitoring committee? OK , Marty, for the development of this point, I am acceppting that you have not directly participated in that activity but in your infinite wisdom or even your modest understanding please share with all of us online here, when your refer to ‘Northern Ireland’as another part of the UK, how were people selected for assasination in ‘other parts of the uk’? Even if you did not particpate directly ( and my nose is getting bigger too), tell us your valued opinion of how the victims were selected?

  • martin ingram

    Onanothermanswounds,

    “Do not tell me that FRU also have a blog monitoring committee?”

    Ach Comon, you know the Shinners are the masters at that game now dont ya?

    ” I am acceppting that you have not directly participated in that activity but in your infinite wisdom or even your modest understanding please share with all of us online here, when your refer to ‘Northern Ireland’as another part of the UK, how were people selected for assasination in ‘other parts of the uk’? Even if you did not particpate directly ( and my nose is getting bigger too), tell us your valued opinion of how the victims were selected? ”

    Thanks for your confidence it means a lot to me, you are well thought of on this board so a resounding vote of confidence from a man of you stature is well? I am lost for words.

    If I may, My understanding is the Agents normally within the IRA like Freddy etc would nominate someone normally a loyal member of the movement or who had some inclination as to the true loyalty of the Agent.

    I suppose a bit like an own goal in football. Of course , it is obvious that there are exceptions to this rule but I hope you follow my drift.

    Martin.

  • onanothermanswounds

    Marty,
    Do not accept that it was agents within armed groups that made suggestions. Much more likely that it was the handlers, that is the Martin Ingrams who made the suggestions. It was the handlers who played GOD, who deicied who should live and who should die. In fact when Brian Nelson suggestted Scappatacci for assasination, was it not the handlers that suggessted Francisco Notarantonio instead? How did you make this selection again? What part did you have in these selections Martin? What part did any handlers have in the selection of assasination victims in ‘other parts of the uk’?

  • Mickhall

    Mick F is absolutely right, if shamo or ‘martin ingram’ wish to discuss the thread in question then go to that page please, or was this just an attempt by shamo to deflect any debate on what the hell Mr McGuinness is doing in Sri Lanka, when one would have thought he had more important things to do at home, not least countering the claim that he is a tout, or is being sent to see one’s solicitor when one finds oneself in such a predicament for lesser mortals…

    Anyway, I thought the interview was very revealing and the interviewer quite funny and astute, especially when he asked MM this,

    Q. Do you think it is quite unusual that a liberation movement which has not yet assumed state power to be traveling so far afield.

    Indeed, one might also have added, you can knock me down with a feather if you believe that Stormont outfit is a real government, [the Brits say implement PPI and SF say there is no alternative but too.] But clearly MM regards the mockney Stormont set up as being an actual government and his role in it as of some importance as he replied,

    MM. The fact that we have been a Government, the fact that we have concluded successful negotiations on the template as to how to move forward clearly gives us some experience in terms of conflict resolution.

    At first I thought with his reply Mr McGuinness had lost the plot, but then I read an article in this weeks Spectator by Rod Liddle, in which he claims all leading politicians live in a place called Pleasantville, where they never have to confront life as the rest of us do, as they live is a golden crescent of thinkers, coked up celebs, creative middle class media monkeys, plus people from academia, charities and the law. Now I realize Derry is not over-flowing with such types but I wonder if they do not populate Mr McGuinesses mind these day’s. Could this help explain why he believes SF have actually held POWER. It is all a puzzle, but then these day’s much of what goes on is, is it not. 😉

  • Mickhall

    the last paragrath of above post should have read,

    “as they live in a golden crescent of thinkers, coked up celebs, creative middle class media monkeys, plus people from academia, charities and the law. “

  • martin ingram

    Onanothermanswounds.

    I did preface my last piece by refering to exceptions. This being one ( Notorantonio),Thanks for mentioning that because it was MARTIN INGRAM WHO REVEALED THAT MURDER TO THE WORLD That said the majority came from IRA men who wanted to protect their own arses , e.g.Joe Fenton Ruby etc.

    “In fact when Brian Nelson suggestted Scappatacci for assasination, was it not the handlers that suggested Francisco Notarantonio instead? “Yes” As I revealed.

    I am surprised we have not heard yet from the second in command of numptys , The Dubliner. What time is shift change tonight lads?

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    Getting back to Martin McGuinness and his trip to Sri lanka and the interview.

    With him stating, “We have a successfull peace process one of the most successful in the world today.” I have to ask myself, is Martin McGuinness delusional? I don’t see the way SF is acting or more rightly…reacting….successfull. What sf has done lately is a disaster. They don’t have any current successes. The peace prpocess is going one way….Ian Paisley’s way. I think it is time for SF to serious consider their leadership….personally, I think it stinks.

    Martin McGuinness by his trip enabled the world once again to equate the IRA with the Tamil Tigers….the world press likes to see both as Terrorist organizations. When Sinn Fein did what my sister and I advised them to do….they equated the IRA to patriots like the American patriots who fought the british. The likes of George Washington and the patriot minute men of Lexington and Concord. Gerry Adams used our line when interviewed in the press and was very successful when the interviewer asked if the IRA was like the Tamil Tigers…he said no….like the US patriots and like George Washington.

    yep….good going Marty….you brought the world back to seeing the IRA as terrorist….My sister and I had the world seeing them as patriots.

  • Shamo

    Kathy C,

    While I agree with your analogy of the American patriots, I do not think you lend any credibility to your argument by attacking other liberation movements. George W. Bush is the greatest ‘terrorist’ on earth, but you won’t see that watching Fox News, or viewing/reading any other Murdoch lie machine. Nelson Mandela was a ‘terrorist’, if you wish to adopt the lexicon of neo-imperialism. (There’s actually a recent film from Sri Lanka entitled ‘The Terrorist’ which is a pretty good retort to your argument).

    Mickhall,
    I share some of your concerns re the trajectory of Irish republicanism in recent times, but attacking each other is not a constructive way forward. Indeed, we need to tackle policies and strategies we think regressive, not those who argue for them. In fairness, I think McGuinness’s decision to go east is well judged, and I also think it’s unfair to say he is cocooned in some ivory tower. The man is an icon for republicanism – which is why British operatives seem so keen on disparaging him.

    But Martin Ingram and his ilk lack something republicans have. He may attach himself to some hollow sense of mercenary ‘duty’, but we have struggled through deprivation and demonisation for a belief that transcends and will ultimately defeat such shallow, pedestrian chauvinism.

  • martin ingram

    Shables,

    “The man is an icon for republicanism”

    Very true. Be patient.

    Martin

  • shamo

    OOHH Martin, you cryptic soothsayer … be still my beating heart, be still …

    As Shakespeare put it,
    The fool doth think he is wise,
    But the wise man knows himself a fool.

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    ….the world sees that the north of ireland isn’t working…yet Martin McGuiness goes to Sri lanka singing the praises of success….it is delusional.

    Shamo, interesting that you state bush is the greatest terrorist on earth and then go on to state McGuiness is an “icon” for republicanism….McGuiness would kiss bush’s a** to get back into the favor of the white house. The icon negotiated away the arms of the PIRA with the “promise” paisly would go into gov’t with him….but what has happened…the PIRA arms are gone….and gov’t isn’t up and running…that is a major failure of the ICON negotiated…he should be fired because he has failed in this recent go-round. Maybe the ICON is too old and tired to be up to the task of getting a deal that really and I repeat REALLY works for the republicans instead of ones that are built on pie in the sky promises….

  • Shamo

    If he’s too old and too tired, then why don’t you take up the challenge? I acknowledge that the RM leadership plays a rather dubious game of power when jetting between the polar embraces of Bush and Castro, but what would you do? What would you have negotiated better? How would you more effectively wield the power of a small revolutionary movement against Brit occupation?

    It’s all very easy to criticise, but it’s harder to build.

  • Mickhall

    Mickhall,
    I share some of your concerns re the trajectory of Irish republicanism in recent times, but attacking each other is not a constructive way forward. Indeed, we need to tackle policies and strategies we think regressive, not those who argue for them.

    shamo
    I hear what you say and of course you are correct, however not attacking fellow republicans on personal terms is a two way street, we both know republicans who have challenged this leaderships strategy and have ended up being vilified in personal terms for no good reason other than to avoid answering the criticisms they have made..[IMO]

    Myself I try assiduously to avoid personalizing issues and as you say, to do so just muddies the water and causes unnecessary friction, but today after reading the Sri Lanka Daily News interview, which I found almost surreal, I have to admit my pen got away from me.

    All the best

  • Kathy_C

    Hi All,

    shamo, what would I have done…I would have negotiated from strength….the past few years SF has negotiated from weakness and the results are what we have today…. The PIRA should never have decomed on the ‘premise’ that blair would make the dup share power. SF talked a big game by having the PIRA give everything up by saying it would shame the DUP into politcs and it would make the dup treat republicans as equals. I said it wouldn’t happen….it hasn’t.

    There were many things SF could have done to put pressure on the dup….but they don’t. That’s why I think the leadership should change…it’s not working.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Can any of the SF supporters on the board explain to me what Martin means by “a second government” in his United Ireland?

  • Good find Mick. Didn’t see this one. I put it on the n’hound this morning.

  • Skintown lad

    Kathy_C

    Please explain what is patriotic about blowing up cafes and bars full of civilians. Or putting bombs in your own countrymen’s cars and forcing them to drive, terrified, into an army barracks to be blown to pieces.

    Please explain. I don’t think you will.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    McGuinness talking of inclusion-is this a sick joke? In his home city of Londonderry the Protestant minority living on the West Bank and their co-religionists living at the interface with Gobnascale in the Waterside, might have a thing or two to say about the Sinn Fein/IRA RAfia’s commitment to inclusive politics and cross-community harmony…

  • Skintown lad

    I see Kathy_C didn’t answer my question above. That always happens with these people

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    Skintown lad, give me a break…I’m in the US and our times aren’t the same. I get to my mail and this board when I can…and it’s only been a couple of hours. But I’m MORE than happy to give you an answer.

    First, my name is Kathy….rather than “these” people. ;0) if you were even referring to me?

    Second, what you asked me about was how do I consider the IRA patriots when they have killed innocent civilians? Like I stated in the American Revolution…the patriots fought for freedom against the brits. During this war there were 25,324 civilian casualties…what we call today collateral damage. Some of these were patriots…some of these were spies….some of these were innocent civilians…some of these were american loyalist to the crown of england. In war it happens. Now if I can still think of the Americans fighting the brits in our revolution as Patriots with 25,324 collateral deaths…surely I can think of the IRA who are fighting the same war of independence against the brits….as Patriots..even with their collateral damage.

  • Yoda

    Please explain what is patriotic about blowing up cafes and bars full of civilians. Or putting bombs in your own countrymen’s cars and forcing them to drive, terrified, into an army barracks to be blown to pieces.

    Assuming, your questions is real, I suppose you might be told that at its core the rationale behind those bombings were all about drawing attention to the situation and economic disruption. Which they did.

    You’d also be told that warnings were usually given, except in cases where the target was deemed “legitimate”: i.e., associated with state security forces. In some cases however, the warnings given were completely inadequate.

    Ed Moloney comes very close in A Secret History of the IRA to suggesting that in later years tactics such as proxy bombs (which you allude to above) were part of the strategy of undermining the military campaign. Given the heavy infiltration of the IRA by agents, one can speculate about who/ what was behind the strategy.

    There’s an answer of sorts. Make of it what you will.

  • martin ingram

    Yoda,

    Quote”Ed Moloney comes very close in A Secret History of the IRA to suggesting that in later years tactics such as proxy bombs (which you allude to above) were part of the strategy of undermining the military campaign. Given the heavy infiltration of the IRA by agents, one can speculate about who/ what was behind the strategy”Unquote

    You must ask then who was the architect of this activity ( Human Bombs) ? Any Ideas?

    Clue : A certain prominent Derry Sinn Fein politician with links to the British state.

    Martin.

  • Yoda

    “Martin”

    When are you finally going to out the person you are speaking about?

    Have you evidence that is other than circumstantial?

    (both genuine questions btw)

  • Mickhall

    Someone from the Tamil community in London sent me this[see below] It was part of a declaration sent to all UK MPs asking for their support in condemning the SL government. In reading it one wondered if MM should have been quite so cosy with the Sri Lankan government.

    MH

    Three female members of an internally displaced family from Kollenkaladi in Jaffna were gunned down in Sri Lankan army controlled village of Manipay on 15th of January 2006. The deceased were two young sisters, Bojan Renuka (30) and Bojan Shanuka (23) and their mother Bojan Arthanageswary (51). Their father Nagendran Bojan (55) and brother Bojan Ullasan (26) sustained gunshot injuries.

    We, the diaspora from Kollenkaladi express our deepest sympathy to the family and deplore these murders. Ultimate responsibility for these civilian murders lies with the security apparatus of Government of Sri Lanka (GOSL). To the best of our knowledge there was no condemnation by the international community regarding these and other recent civilian murders namely;

    · Murder of 5 Tamil Students at Trincomalee on 2nd of January 2006

    · Murder of Baticalloa district TNA – MP Joseph Parrarajasingam on mid-night Christmas mass at a church.

    We, the people from Kollenkaladi would like to ask the British parliamentarians of all parties and the international community why they have not been forthcoming in condemning these killings, and what threshold number of civilian murders perpetrated by the state is needed for them to act?

    Despite the efforts to bring peace in Sri Lanka, the international community has silently watched the rise of religious fanaticism and Sinhala-supremacist chauvinism.

    · An administrative scheme (PTOMS), proposed by the international community to share administrative responsibility in distributing Tsunami Aid to Tamils was scuttled by the Sri Lankan Supreme Court after the appeal by the Sinhalese quoting the Sri Lankan Constitution.

    · Sri Lankan state curbed foreign dignitaries, including UN Secretary General Kofi Annan’s, post Tsunami visit to estimate the devastation of very badly hit area of Northeast.

    Our appeal to the British parliamentarians of all parties and human rights activists

    Join us and other Tamil Diaspora such as the Punkuduthivu Welfare society who are mourning the deaths of their brethren and relatives.

    · Condemn the state terrorism in Sri Lanka and stop providing any further unconditional support to the Sri Lankan state.

    · Help the internally displaced Tamils’ to live in peace and dignity in their own land.

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    MI6…Martin Ingram, Do you believe so strongly in the brits right to be in the north of Ireland that you’ve dedicated most of your adult working life to what you have done there and still trying to accomplish today? Or are you motivated by another reason?

  • martin ingram

    Yoda.

    You should know better than anyone? when the force is with you it is only governed by patience, so be patient like Freddy was.

    Quote”When are you finally going to out the person you are speaking about?

    Have you evidence that is other than circumstantial?”Unquote

    Martin.

    Kathy c. Morning Luv, how is America this morning still having it leg pulled by Dennis D clones?

  • Skintown lad

    Kathy_C. Your answer to my question was so laughably pathetic and obscure I don’t even know where to begin in countering it. I’m not sure that people who seek to excuse this type of activity realise the horror of what they are excusing. This is especially in the context of Northern Ireland, which republicans like to think of as a war zone but in reality was just a playground for their bullies.

  • Skintown lad

    “Second, what you asked me about was how do I consider the IRA patriots when they have killed innocent civilians? ”

    That is not what I asked, no matter what way you would like to interpret the question. Your allusions to a war fought in a different country, in a different era, in a different way, do not excuse, for example, the lining up of men, singled out purely because of their religion, and gunning them down. Where, I ask again, is the patriotism in that? How did that serve Ireland for the better?

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    Skintown lad, thank you for using my name. ;o)
    The common enemy to both wars (America’s war of indepenedence and the Irish war of independence)…were/are the brits. I see the killing of innocent Catholic Irish peace marchers by the brit army and ask the same question…where is the british patriotism in that?

    MI6 (Martin Ingram), Who is Dennis D? I know it’s supposed to be funny what you wrote…maybe it’s a chick thing…but I don’t get it….And America is quite lovely this time of day….thank you ;o). And I’m…still waiting for an anwser to my question whether you think the brits have a right to be in the north of Ireland and that is why you have dedicated most of your working adult life to that end or…was it another reason.?

    Yoda, It seems that MI6 (Martin Ingram) is having far more fun having the person or the republican movement wonder and sweat about “who” it is….and he’ll make the announcement if and when he does to garner the most publicity…it won’t be on the Slugger board…

  • Yoda

    Kathy,

    Oh I know who he’s talking about.

    I just wanted to see if he’d actually say it publicly.

  • martin ingram

    Kathy C

    Quote”MI6 (Martin Ingram), Who is Dennis D? I know it’s supposed to be funny what you wrote…maybe it’s a chick thing…but I don’t get it…”Unquote

    Tell me have you heard of the man who Gerry Adams sent to America to re organise Sinn Fein? if not luv I have a few pups for sale.

    Quote”whether you think the brits have a right to be in the north of Ireland” Unquote

    No Luv, but they are and we have to deal with it. The history of this Island is complicated and is steeped in history. Oh yes, history is something you Americans dont have much of? care to buy some have a word with Dennis.

    Yoda.

    Quote”Oh I know who he’s talking about.” Unquote

    Clearly you have the force with you ? is it strong with you?

    Martin

  • Yoda

    Strong with me the force is.

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    MI6, Martin Ingram, I thought that is who you meant but I didn’t get the humor so I thought I was missing something and the D wasn’t for donaldson but for someone else….I find it’s always best to ask. Besides, many in America couldn’t stand Dennis Donaldson…and have been complaining about him for years so that’s why I didn’t get the pulling Americans leg thing…

    So…you’re willing to sell pups…maybe Ervine?

  • Skintown lad

    “The common enemy to both wars (America’s war of indepenedence and the Irish war of independence)…were/are the brits. I see the killing of innocent Catholic Irish peace marchers by the brit army and ask the same question…where is the british patriotism in that?”

    Again you haven’t answered my question. We aren’t talking about the Brits, we’re talking about the IRA. You made an assertion that the majority of Irish people would find vile and repugnant, and then seek to back it up by referring solely to another party’s behaviour. Effectively what you’re saying is, any horror perpetrated is excusable because we can label it is as being part of a war against the British. You are deluded.

  • martin ingram

    Kathy C

    I appreciate that Dennis was not popular but as you know he cleared a lot of the old guard out and replaced them with Adams/ FBI/ HMG authorised people. Its called a spy ring.

    Can you confirm whom the complaints were addressed to? I suppose it must have been Adams ? I wonder why Sinn Fein local members accusations and complaints were never taken seriously by him. It beggars belief. Could you comment further?

    Quote”Besides, many in America couldn’t stand Dennis Donaldson…and have been complaining about him for years”Unquote

    Martin.

    PS. The pups are very cute.

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    Skintown lad, I’ve thought I have answered your question but there is obviously something else you want me to say? I see that the PIRA fought against the brits…so like I’ve said in any war there is collateral damage. Recently it has been reported that approx 100,000 people have died in Iraq …collateral damage. Now it seems that you-by your writings -are british. What do you feel about your gov’t’s responsiblity with those 100,000 dead…the british gov’t is involved in Iraq ergo…there is linkage to those deaths.

    MI 6 (Martin Ingram), I have to say it does beggar belief. For years I have seen and been on the reseaving end of SF alienating American supporters. However, for my own reason’s I hung in there. Sinn Fein has taken in some regards a very pro-british line. From Alex Maskey on Dec. 15,05 stating republicans had to find, “a narrative that finds a place for the orange order,” to Gerry Kelly using himself to protect the brits in a parade…all of which I see is a pro-british agenda while SF American approach has been one to minimize and lessen the Irish American to feel that “they aren’t good enough because they don’t live there” or “that they aren’t Irish enough….”
    What cemented it for me that the british were involved in SF leadership was when SF about a year ago December in negotiations came out and said the PIRA had to give a pledge or something like that to end it’s criminality. In that one swoop…they did what your PM maggie thatcher wasn’t able to do…criminalize the IRA…and for that…I spit on any republican who had a hand in that statement.
    As a member…or former member of her majesty’service…you must be very pleased with how the SF leadership and spokespeople are helping your queen and her pm.

    ps….I’m sure the pups are cute….and I ask again…will you give up Ervine or how about a dog..will you give up a dog- one called Johnny?