Nazi group rears its ugly head in NI

According to a report in the Belfast Telegraph, it looks like Combat 18 has a presence in Garvagh (Co. Derry/Londonderry).

As NI society is slowing becoming more diverse in terms of ethnicity and culture is it inevitable that this will also be reflected in a rise of racist violence and attitudes and if so how can this bigotry be stemmed?

Nazi posters spread fear in a quiet village
Garvagh targeted by fascist group

By Linda McKee
16 August 2005

A sinister right-wing group is targeting homes and property in a Co Londonderry village with a poster campaign, it was last night warned.

SDLP Assembly member John Dallat said residents of Garvagh had complained that notices announcing the return of the ultra-right wing Combat 18 had been pasted around the village.

The East Londonderry MLA said Combat 18 was linked to loyalist elements in the Coleraine and Bushmills areas.

“Catholic homes and businesses have been specifically targeted, but these sinister stickers have also appeared on traffic islands and are similar to others which were erected in areas of Coleraine last year where black people are known to work,” he said.

“Recently, a nurse from the Philippines fled the village of Garvagh after her flat was broken into and money stolen.”

Mr Dallat said he had alerted the PSNI to what was a sinister form of racism and intimidation.

“While I don’t regard those involved as having any support among the intelligent population I do believe the Hate Crime laws should be applied and those involved prosecuted,” he said.

“We need to be very mindful that there is a sizeable population of people from many parts of the world now living and working in this area.

“While there isn’t a pattern of racist attacks it is important that no opportunities are afforded to anyone who would want to reintroduce Combat 18 or any other corrupt elements bent on causing division and distrust.”

A Police spokesman said they took such incidents extremely seriously, and added: “The PSNI would appeal to anyone who is aware of such hate literature or knows of anyone distributing such literature to contact their local police station immediately.”

  • francesco

    ejects of the highest order like, wish the inla members were still around, but ye never know…

  • Durrutti Columnist

    As a sometime steward with Anti-Fascist Action who has had the pleasure of watching the hard men of Combat 18 running away on numerous occasions, I wouldn’t want to say anything to discourage a vigorous response to the scum wheresoever they crawl into view.

    However, experience does relate that it only takes one or two wee lads to mail order some stickers, go on a spree and create a fascist panic.

  • Michael Morgan

    Oddly enough I saw a piece of pro-Nazi graffitti on my way to my doctors in west Belfast. I’m not sure how seriously we should take all this. Whoever painted the slogan on the wall was a fairly literate graffitti artist – quite unlike the usual misspelt doggerels. They had spelt ‘Einsatz Gruppen D SS’ correctly which made me suspect that it’s been put up by somebody who has followed all of the Nazi programmes on TV (and it’s hard to miss them…) or who has read Anthony Beaver’s books on Stalingrad or Berlin. I don’t think it’s something people should get themselves excited about – It’s more a case of displaced teenage testosterone than any genuine Nazi resurgence.

  • Betty Boo

    “It’s more a case of displaced teenage testosterone”
    That’s what they thought some seventy years ago.

  • circles

    “It’s more a case of displaced teenage testosterone”
    Even if it is – nobody should have their home broken into or be insulted because of testosterone.

    Michael: Where in w.belfast was the graffitti?

  • Brendan

    I’ve noticed it all along the Falls, Andersonstown and Stewartstown Roads. I agree with Michael above re the literate graffitti artist bit – one swastika was accompanied by letters – OKW I think but the “O” had an umlaut on it

  • circles

    An Umlaut – looks like those grammar school kids are at it again!!
    Seriously though thats quite shocking. That’ll have to be removed.

  • cash

    There’s no doubt about it that racism is becoming a more of a factor in the north in recent days. The number of attacks climbing every year and an element of fear creeping into the homes of each and every non-white citizen.

    I can think of 3 incidents where I’ve been accompanying my mates home when racist abuse was hurled at them. Once from a girl who couldn’t have been more than 14 years old (what she was doing out on her own at that time for i don’t know) ‘get out to fu*k you packie bastard’ were her exact words. But my question is this; why should a teenager grow up with so much hatred in her to feel the need to shout such a thing?

    The other two times were in two take-aways where a group of drunken men felt the need to challenge my friend as to why he’s working over here – they didn’t realise he’s lived here all his life, went to school here, and wait for it…has an accent and everything!

    Narrow mindedness has a lot to answer for in this country and it’s about time it was addressed. We should all join anti-racism networks in our area and discuss our views openly at every opportunity.

    All three incidents occurred within a mile of each other in south Belfast. The first, while walking up lower lisburn road, the others on Bradbury place.

    This nazi group can crawl back into the whole from where it came, the only way of beating them is to stand as one and make your views heard, community networks are a good way of doing this, exchange numbers with your neighbours and fight horrible fascism together.

  • Brendan

    I agree with you cash. A friend once rang me to work to ask me to meet her when I had finished. She had worked herself up into a state because, when travelling along the Ormeau Road on a bus, a group of school girls started harrassing a lady of Oriental origin. She felt disgusted but, because she had no-one to back her up, powerless. It’s a sad state of affairs when people feel threatened or intimidated by horrendous millbags with caked on orange make up, bedecked with disgusting gold and a locket with a photograph of the father of their first child who died whilst joyriding

  • Jo

    I wonder if Mr Shoukri was ever the subject of racial taunts or abuse?

  • Grammaticus

    Brendan

    I was involved in an incident some time ago, when a bunch of teenage pricks surrounded an elderly chinese lady and tried pulling her shopping our of her hands. When challenged by me as to just what in the hell they thought they were playing at I was subjected to the foulest abuse I have ever encountered. These people are a menace to society.

  • Brendan

    Chemical castration for all spides, chavs, millbags, millmen and anyone with racsit/sectarian leanings and their parents and any progeny they might have – I know it sounds a tad extreme but trust me, just think of the fabulous society we’ll have once that sort of person has been eradicated. I’ve just been reading the proposals of the Department for Social Development to redevelop Belfast city centre – public realms with public squares seems to be the intention – it’ll be ruined by these scumbags within a matter of hours.

  • mickhall

    Brendan,

    Whilst I hope you did not mean to be offensive, to believe that racists only inhabit the working or under-class as your post implied is just plain wrong. After all, it was not people from these classes who institutionalized racism in many of the British and Irish States institutions. Indeed racism is often a weapon used by those with power to turn working people on their own, rather than address the cause of the injustices that afflict them. Indeed in the 1920s and 30s fascism was the tool the european ruling classes used to maintain themselves in power in countries such as Italy, Germany, Spain, Rumania, etc.

    I agree completely with cash, i e joining anti racist networks etc, also whilst the slogan just say no was inappropriate for anti drugs work, IMHO it is perfect for combating racism. Instead of tolerating the odd racist joke, poster, bit of bullying, we all have a duty to just say no! and act accordingly.

    regards to all.

    Brendan posted,
    I agree with you cash. A friend once rang me to work to ask me to meet her when I had finished. She had worked herself up into a state because, when travelling along the Ormeau Road on a bus, a group of school girls started harrassing a lady of Oriental origin. She felt disgusted but, because she had no-one to back her up, powerless. It’s a sad state of affairs when people feel threatened or intimidated by horrendous millbags with caked on orange make up, bedecked with disgusting gold and a locket with a photograph of the father of their first child who died whilst joyriding

    Posted by: Brendan

  • Michael

    Dear Brendan and circles,

    The one I saw was on the Stewartstown Road just at Hillhead ( there’s a doctor’s surgery on the corner which is why I was in the area). I didn’t think it was a general thing in w Belfast but there you are. Mind you, somebody’s been quick to paint over it – in the one I saw the words grupen ss have been covered but einsatz was still emblazoned in red. Personally I blame channel four for making all those nazi programmes . Kids these days are experts in the detail of 1930s Germany but know bugger all about, say, the Franco- Prussian war of 1870.

  • Brendan

    Mickhall, you said

    “Brendan,

    Whilst I hope you did not mean to be offensive, to believe that racists only inhabit the working or under-class as your post implied is just plain wrong.”

    To which post did you refer?

  • Michael

    “Chemical castration for all spides, chavs, millbags, millmen and anyone with racsit/sectarian leanings and their parents and any progeny they might have.”

    Sounds like something the nazis did.under the T4 euthanasia programme …

  • Phoenix

    Why isn’t anyone trying to end racism in other countries? Anti-Racism is obviously a code word for anti-white. You are not trying to end racism in Saudi-Arabi by importing Hindu’s and then legislating hate laws.
    The anti-racist are not trying to end racism in China by importing Bantus. You will never see the anti-racists trying to end racism in Nigeria by importing millions of Germans and then telling them Diversity is wonderful. They are trying to end racism in white countries and only white countries by importing non whites. That is evil. That is genocide. Just ask the young women who are getting raped across Europe by non-Europeans.

    Anti-Racism is the new Nazism.

    Hitler said all Jews must go.
    Anti-Racist say all whites must go.(Just try standing up and saying “I want an all white Christian country”. See what you get —Jail time. No one disputes China’s right to an all Chinese country. Do they?)

    Hitler said the jews do all kinds of things in our societies BUT they are all evil things.
    Anti-Racist say that whites are Evil that is why we need Hate Laws against them. (someone name one time non-whites get tried for hate crimes when they murder or rape?)

    Hitler said Jews invent all kinds of great things. But all those great inventions were stolen from the ideas of others.
    Anti-Racist say that everything whites invent was stolen from ancient Africa etc..etc. (Although 95% of all the inventions over the last 300 years were white inventions –that does not count—whites stole the ideas from others)

    Hitler said the Jews own all kinds of Property and Businesses. However, they used deceptive means to get all that stuff.

    Anti-Racist say that whites own all kinds of land and businesses. But all this land was obtained by illegal means of some sort. (Whether it be by invasion. Hurting poor little Indians etc etc.)

    Anti-Racism is Nazism.

    How many of you have realized this?

  • leslie

    mickhall is right to remind us that a mere 70 years ago fascism was popular in Britain with the British Union of Fascists, and the Imperial Fascist league under Oliver Leese. In the small Lincolnshire town of Stamford, membership was 71 people.Martin Pugh’s recent book Hurrah for the Blackshirts is a good source for anyone interested in British pre war fascism. I trust it will not develop in NI, that common sense will prevail

  • Grammaticus

    Pheonix

    Have you any evidence to show that non-Europeans are more likely to committ an act of rape than their European counterparts?

  • Durrutti Columnist

    It’s tempting not to dignify your little mewl there with a response Phoenix, especially given your laughable-if-not-so-wrongheaded antisemitism and Hitler apologetics. However, since I know this idea of white victimisation is a tactic fascists use but here you go…
    I’m white, working class and English. I became involved in anti-fascism when I realised that nazis were exploiting racism to push an agenda that would ultimately hurt me and the community I grew up in – that is, those of them who weren’t just out-and-out thugs and bullies along for the ride. I’d also been brought up to despise racism wherever it comes from as immoral and indecent, and to judge people by what they do, not what they’re born as.
    Now I work in China, where there is also a lot of racism – as well as against the various ethnic minorites who find themselves stuck in an overwhelmingly Han state, also against, for example, black students who came here on Chinese government programmes designed to build ties with Africa. Guess what? I oppose that too, because it’s as bollocks as racism anywhere.

  • micktvd

    I believe that phoenix has just self-immolated in a frenzy of self pity and paranoia.

    However, rather that playing the man (any more) a few points:

    We don’t import people. People aren’t beer bottles. Migration occurs everywhere, as do refugees. Most refugees flee to neighbouring countries, not to white countries.

    We can’t end racism in Saudi Arabia, where it surely exists, but we can end it in our own country.

    Genocide in the sense that you describe it is only possible if whites procreate with non-whites. By choice, God luvem. A few rapes (however hideous) are not going to do it.

    I dispute China’s right to an all (ethnically) Chinese country- there!

    Whites are not evil and we invented things. There.

    Phoenix,if it’s ok can you please take off your hood and join the rest of the world in the age of diversity and tolerance.

  • Grammaticus

    “I’m white, working class and English.”

    The fates really are stacked against you. Sorry, I couldn’t resist it!

  • Durrutti Columnist

    Heh, you’re telling me Grammaticus. Could be worse though – could have been born in Ireland like my grandparents 😀
    I also realised once the rush of blood had subsided that I’ve fairly misread Phoenixes’ screed and I withdraw the antisemitism and Hitler apologising bit, as I had that round me neck…I stand by the rest of course.

  • Beni MacLet

    Phoenix: “Why isn’t anyone trying to end racism in other countries?”

    Well yes they are. The West has been trying to end the ethnic conflicts in places like Sudan.

    “They are trying to end racism in white countries and only white countries by importing non whites.”

    Bollocks. No one is “importing” any one. I suppose you’ll be telling us next about the Zionist conspiracy?

    “Anti-Racist say all whites must go…. Anti-Racist say that whites are Evil”

    Who said this and when did they say it? You sure you didn’t just make this up to suit your own warped propaganda?

    “That is genocide. Just ask the young women who are getting raped across Europe by non-Europeans.”

    Rape, while lamentable is hardly genocide and neither is it the sole perogative of ethnic minorities. The scum who raped the English girl in West Belfast recently were white for example.

    “Just try standing up and saying “I want an all white Christian country”. See what you get —Jail time.”

    But yet the BNP et al do that at every election and their leaders still walk around the streets so more bollocks. Who was jailed for that and where?

    Anyways back to the topic, it is fairly old news as the National Alliance (formerly the White Nationalist Party) have been active in the North Antrim and Coleraine areas for some time and have made little headway although the rising tide of racist violence does clearly need to be addressed through educational campaigns and so on.

  • Phoenix

    Well I see that there is a debate going. Good. It is typical of Europeans to point to exceptions and not the rule.

    Below is a discourse on Rape in Europe. It is a starter. Do some homework. I could inundate you with statistics. But what is the use. You can do all that yourself. Everyone on earth has read the Color Crime Report.

    http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/Islam%20exposed/sweden-norway-rape.html

    In countries like Denmark, you do not actually believe they are targeting young white girls by accident or random? Do you?

    If a majority of crime is being committed by a certain group. You do not have a problem with crime but with that group. Common Sense. I am not a Anti-Racist Nazi. So I don’t believe in Violence will solve problems.

    In Regards to Anti-Racism being global. I will give you that much. There are idiots that believe Racism is a Universal trait of mankind to be erased. How do you erase it if it is universal? Education has never worked. We have more racism now than ever. Anti-Racism is a con job.

    As a libertarian I believe Racism is just a word. People generally like their own and are distrusful of others. If left alone, and if this nonsense is not shoved down peoples throats. I believe things pretty much work out.

    You are not going to Change people. The Chinese are homogenous. They will not have it any other way. You are never going to see the Chinese allowing the Irish people to migrate and call themselves Chinese. They are not so stupid.

    Here is how the scam starts.

    Japan is racist because they are NOT multicultural. There are no Plaid People living there. Meanwhile, UN committee to end Racism will start publishing reports talking about ‘historic racism’ in Japan. Starting with their cooperation with Hitler (they did cooperate with Hitler didn’t they?).

    Now Japan feels guilty and they let in the Plaid people. Low and behold there is a ‘racist event’. Well what do you know? There is reason that there is now racism is because Japan does not have any ‘diversity training’. So anti-racist fools flood Japan to train them in diversity acceptance (self hatred). The Anti-Racist come up with a solution– Japan needs a “Committee for Social Justice”. So the Japanese go along with it because they don’t want to be seen as Racist. The Committe immediately rules that Racism in Japan is rampant and institutional! Japan needs to hire thousands more of the Anti-Racist educators to end racism. So Japan hires them. They immediately suggest and the “Committee for Social Justice” agrees that Japan needs to instate a “Commission for Equality” to monitor the progress to end racism. The Commission for Equality rules that the Japanese are privledged because they have ‘Japanese Skin privledge’. On and on we go —it is never over with —because it is a scam.

    So how does Japan end Racism —well they have to stop being Japanese. Of course, the Japanese do not want anything to do with immigration. They are smart. Although, they could use the workers. It is a ‘foot in the door’ to a scam.

    Brittain was a colonialist empire —so it has to accept immigrants. Guilt = Scam. Ireland and Scotland sent immigrants all over the world—so Ireland and Scotland must accept immigrants from all over the world. Guilt = Scam. Vote against it and you are an evil racist who is going to kill 6 million Jews–go straight to Jail. Actual VOTE passes in a “Democracy” to limit and stop immigration. Of course, that does not count —because it was a racist vote! SCAM SCAM SCAM.

    If immigration and diversity and all this nonsense is sooo great. Why are the majority opposed? Well because they are racist and they need more anti-racism education. It is a joke and an unqualified disaster.

    This is the premier Anti-Racist/Anti-Facism. Of course, he teaches at Harvard University.

    Dr. Noel Ignatiev.

    The purpose is “to abolish the white race.”

    Dr. Ignatiev intends cultural and psychological genocide for whites.

    “do not limit themselves to socially acceptable means of protest, but reject in advance no means of attaining their goal.”

    Dr. Ignatiev does not believe his agenda is controversial. He writes:

    “The goal of abolishing the white race is on its face so desirable that some may find it hard to believe that it could incur any opposition other than from committed white supremacists.” Thus does he put whites on notice. If they oppose their abolition, they are “white supremacists.”

    According to Dr. Ignatiev,

    “The key to solving the social problems of our age is to abolish the white race.”

    “Make no mistake about it,” he says,

    “we intend to keep bashing the dead white males, and the live ones, and the females too, until the social construct known as ‘the white race’ is destroyed–not ‘deconstructed’ but destroyed.”

    If that is not Nazism. What is? Oh and to top it off the poor Jews are even included. Under Anti-Racism Isreal is simply a Racist State and the Jews are the last of the evil white people to colonise and steal land away from the poor brown Palestinians.

  • Anti-Racist

    Phoenix you say:

    “If that is not Nazism. What is?”

    I say:

    “If you are not a dickhead. Who is?”

  • Phoenix

    Anti-Racist says:

    “If you are not a dickhead. Who is?”

    I say:

    “You”

    Of course smears and name calling are the order of the day. Especially, with you folks.

    But Mr Anti-Racist, it really does not matter what you believe and it does not matter what I believe. It matters what the Majority believes and they are the ones with votes. So please keep calling people Racist (especially the young white ones). Please keep trying to educate them. I want the “sales fatigue” to set in. Oh and please throw all your evil racist enemies in Jail. Or at least put them on trial –like your ancestors put the witches on trial. Martyrs create great propaganda. WORSE IS BETTER.

  • aquifer

    Can the government not have the stuff removed pronto, with a dedicated reporting line. Who do you phone anyhow? If it keeps re-appearing put in a hidden camera and nab some of these over enthusiastic male bonders. We are short a few successful prosecutions for hate crime promotion here. It could be a very small number of saddos trying to create fear.

  • Class War

    Phoenix

    You spout that shite in a balanced way, you talk like an educated person, no doubt that is why the good folk at slugger have tolerated your racist nonsense. The BNP talk in similar terms, have respectable folk in suits doing their bidding but are rejected as white supremist gobshites time after time at the polls.

    Your argument seems to be – Keep Ireland/Britian white cos the Chinese keep China Chinese? The Saudias keep their Arabia Saudi? Wind your neck in son. I’m not even going to start arguing with that view, it’s childish and pathetic and clearly plagerised from those arseholes from ‘White Pride World Wide’ or ‘Stormfront’ or Im white and uhhhhhh whatthef*ckever cos i’m great I am cos i’m feckin pale I am!! – i’ve read the sites too d*ckhead so don’t try and pretend you are being original. I could sit here cutting & pasting but I wont. Tell you what though, i’m happy to get childish and pathetic with you, I really am, in person, and kick your wee ballicks right back inside you.

    You quite rightly cut down anti-racists in your posts – cos we’re your enemy of course – yes us, some white, some not, mostly working class folk that you might have gone to school with, feck some of us might even be your neighbours. I just hope your messageboard views are your ‘open’ views too cos you’ll get a good dig in the face soon enough.

    Slugger moderators – First post & I played the man rather than the ball so go ahead & ban me. I wouldnt tolerate a racist scumbag in my local so why should I tolerate one on here?

  • mbari

    If these people can last in an area filled with ostensibly left-wing guerrillas who have no objection to taking the law into their own hands is beyond me.

  • mbari

    Er, how these people can last.

  • micktvd

    Mbari, your view seems to be that left wing guerrillas are an important element in the rise of right wing racism. Hence the vast guerilla network in the US in the 1920s or in 1990s Germany. I think you will find that the common denominator for white racism is perceived threats to racial dominance or purity by migrants, minorities or previously oppressed groups.

    I’m sure you don’t mean to justify these people.

  • beano; EverythingUlster.com

    Oh my god, severely paranoid MOPEry and it’s not even coming from the Sinners or the DUP. As if we didn’t have enough oppressed minorities here.

    Phoenix, here’s an idea. Before you copy and paste the next load of tripe of one of your ‘pakis out’ websites, try actually thinking about it. I’d say question it but I suspect that the rational capacity required to do so may be beyond you.

  • foreign correspondent

    Would it not be possible for slugger moderators to remove posts containing the sort of twisted racist demagoguery espoused by Phoenix? It makes the Sinners and the Dupers seem reasonable in comparison (well, almost…)

  • Baluba

    Idiots like Phoenix are just embarrassing.

    It was probably you who painted that swastika and, get this, Star of David in the entry behind my house.

    You lack sense you poor creature.

    Go dtaga muid slán ó do leithéid.

  • Two Nations

    My girlfriend (who is mixed-race) and me have had an horrendous year this year due to a number of racial incidents. Luckily none of them have involved any violence but she has suffered some really vile verbal abuse.

    All the scumbags have been what I would call spides/millies. Most are under 18 but two have been older men (drunk). All the incidents have occurred in and around the same square mile – lisburn road, bradbury place, dublin rd, great vic street. On the occasions I have been there I have felt absolutely powerless, as the perpetrators have been girls, young or on one occasion it has been an old man.

    The main reason I have also felt unable to confront them is that the scumbags live locally (donegall rd, donegall pass, markets). My belief is that if I confront them, particularly the kids, then the next day the scumbag parent or ‘big maccers’ will be there waiting on my girlfriend. So I do nothing.

    What can I do? What can any of us do to stop this?

    The only solution I can think of is to stop the underclass from living so close to the city centre/golden mile. Why do we have these ghettos so close to the city centre? What good does it do the tourist trade to see gangs of yobs and drunks milling about the city centre or in our ‘entertainment quarter’?

    These estates bring nothing to the city but only take away from it. Move the spides out!

  • Brendan

    Two Nations:

    I agree with the point you make and perhaps with DSD’s proposals to regenerate the city centre/inner city we will see these people being priced out of the area and a nicer class of person moving in. I appreciate that this makes me sound like a dreadful snob, but at the end of the day, my wages pay for their drinking/glue money!

  • Two Nations

    Brendan

    “makes me sound like a dreadful snob”

    I’ve wrestled with this myself but I am beyond caring now. I’ve yet to find one redeeming feature of these ghettos.

    But I am not hopeful of seeing these gehttos being changed to something better. Any attempt to move the residents out will have some dreary local politician out trying to score some points in the the big zero-sum sectarian game.

    “How dare the government try to rape and destroy this bastion of the loyliss/kafflick community.” blah blah blah

    Brendan, you and I are from separate communities and traditions but no doubt we go to the same bars, restaurants, cinemas in South Belfast. Places where religion do not matter and where people just want to get along. To live and let live. Places were outsiders and people of a different race are welcomed.

    Interspersed in this, are wee twats in shellsuits who shout abuse at people while fiddling with their crotch. Is this issue likely to be tackled by any of our politicians? No. Why? Because these communities are used to point score and to get cheap electoral votes. Polticians will let S. Belfast sink further into squalor because it will not cause them too much political capital to. The DUP ain’t going to let Donegall Pass go and Sinn Fein ain’t going to let the Markets go.

    The following is from the Planning Service website.

    “Protected City Centre Housing Areas

    The following areas CC 097/01- CC 097/13 are designated as Protected City Centre Housing Areas as identified on Map No. 2/001- Belfast City Centre.

    Policy for the control of development in Protected City Centre Housing Areas is contained in Policy HOU 5 in Part 3, Volume 1of the Plan.

    Designation CC 097
    Protected City Centre Housing Areas

    The following Protected City Centre Housing Areas are designated as identified on Map No. 2/001 – Belfast City Centre:-

    CC 097/01 Laganview
    CC 097/02 Laganbank
    CC 097/03 Markets (West)
    CC 097/04 Markets (East)CC 097/05 Donegall Pass (North)
    CC 097/06 Donegall Pass (South)
    CC 097/07 Sandy Row
    CC 097/08 Sandy Row (East)CC 097/09 Divis
    CC 097/10 Brown Square
    CC 097/11 Carrick Hill
    CC 097/12 Clifton
    CC 097/13 Lancaster”

    These ghettos are protected and therefore will stay as ghettos. The spides will still be around in the near future. Until these areas are redeveloped the City Centre will not grow, even worse, will probably descend further into squalor. Racial incidents increasing and yob violence getting more frequent.

  • Bloomsday Girl

    Belfast Tele reports that Combat 18 have made a direct threat to SDLP member John Dallat.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=657349

  • nmc

    Pheonix’s comments should be allowed to stay up, because censorship won’t hurt racist scumbags, but strengthen their “cause”. We should take the positive from it, and know your enemy. And then, as a solution, we should all agree that the next time we meet a racist, we meet them head on. Don’t sit quietly, biting your tongue – start bloody murder. I made an agreement with myself to do this, and it always amazes me how quickly racist types – or people of diminished mental capacity as they’re known in our pc society – start repeating themselves.

  • Valenciano

    Brendan and (the aptly named) two nations tell me this – how do your views difer from those of Phoenix?

    He tars everyone with the same brush based on an accident of birth (their race) you tar everyone with the same brush based on an accident of birth (their socio-economic class.)

    He wants to ethnically cleanse certain areas , you two want to ethnically sorry socially cleanse certain areas. Sorry lads but your views are highly typical of the problem that we face in NI where people blame the government or one group in society rather than looking in the mirror so basically you’re part of the problem. (Am surprised that no one has yet popped up to blame the “other community!”)

    I can equally only assume that you have never been to places like Wycombe, Aylesbury or North Kent which despite being above average income are often “spide south central” indeed Aylesbury gained a reputation a decade ago for ‘designer violence’ racial attacks committed by groups of affluent middle class youths.

    Racism is certainly not a class issue but if you did want to go down that dodgy route then it should be pointed out that ethnic diversity is greatest in working class, not middle class areas. The leaders of British fascist organisations eg Griffin and the late unlamented John Tyndall? Middle-class. You would also have to explain why the BNP win in places like Epping Forest, Broxbourne and rural wards in places like Burnley if it is solely a working class problem.

    “Is this issue likely to be tackled by any of our politicians? No. Why? Because these communities are used to point score and to get cheap electoral votes. Polticians will let S. Belfast sink further into squalor because it will not cause them too much political capital to. The DUP ain’t going to let Donegall Pass go and Sinn Fein ain’t going to let the Markets go.”

    A very ill thought out and dodgy analysis. The squalor in those areas long predates the arrival of SF and the DUP onto the political scene. In fact a decade ago neither of them had any elected representation at all in Laganbank which covers the areas you mention. So sorry, you’ll have to do better than that!

  • Headmelter

    Valenciano,
    I agree. I can just imagine Brendan and two nations sitting at the waterfront sipping their martinis at pims o’clock espousing how wonderful Belfast would be if the council would only get rid of all those terrible working class people and build more waterfront appartments.

    BTW this dosen’t excuse phoenix from being a prick.

  • Two Nations

    Valenciano,

    I am well aware that racism is not confined to the lower classes. The points that I was making were specifically about SOuth Belfast. I have no knowledge or interest in Aylesbury.

    I am not some middle-class twat either. I come from a working-class loyalist estate in Armagh, so I am not looking down my nose at anyone.

    But spides are scumbags and their ghettos are not doing them any good and they are certainly not doing the general South Belfast population any good either.

  • Neal

    Hey Phoenix

    Granted your little diatribes above had a lot in the way of intolerant, hate-filled opinion and little in the way of fact, but you could’ve at least gotten the few facts right. Ignatiev is not at Harvard – he teaches at the slightly less prestigious Massachusetts College of Art. So you’re even more clueless than you first looked.

  • Bored

    Donegall Pass, the Markets, the Village etc. etc. etc. – all of these places should be razed to the ground and the work-shy, feral scum curently therein moved to Larne, Craigavon, Portadown, Lurgan etc.

    How DARE these fucking scum expect to live within minutes of the city centre while refusing to work, adequately parent their children and refrain from assaulting, intimidating and generally annoying all decent,honest,hardworking citizens of Belfast.

    It never ceases to amaze me how and why these animals are allowed to occupy prime real estate at taxpayers expense. And how do they repay the taxpayer – “Sandy Row is Sandy Row” etc. etc. etc.

    I travel widely and regularly – I have never encountered a city (with the possible exception of Rio de Janeiro and Mexico City) which seems so overrun with spides as Belfast. Travel to Dublin, London, Edinburgh, Paris, Madrid, Rome, Amsterdam etc. etc. and while there are certainly spides about, they (a) tend to stay within the less salubrious districts of town and (b) certainly don’t strut about the city centre as if they own the place.

    Walk down Grafton Street, Stephen’s Green, Nassau Street, George’s Street, Merrion Square etc. in Dublin – now walk down Royal Avenue, Chichester Street, Donegall Street, Castle Street, Donegall Square etc. in Belfast – notice anything? That’s right – the city centre of Belfast is awash with baseball-capped, moustache-sporting, Elizabeth Duke From Argos gold tat-wearing scum, strutting about without a care in the world.

    I have long been of the view that these filth should be offered a voluntary sterilisation procedure in exchange for Regal cigarettes, vouchers for McDonalds, Argos, Winemark and JJB sports and (as a last resort) hard cash.

    These scum are (in parallel with loyalist paramilitarism) the greatest quality of life issue facing Belfast in the next century. Talking, debating, mollycoddling and otherwise entertaining these vermin is utterly pointless. We’ve spent the last twenty years and fuck knows how much money adopting ‘community based’ programs of ‘social assistance’ manned by a veritable army of ‘youth workers’, ‘outreach workers’, ‘welfare advisers’ etc. etc et fucking cetera.

    This policy has failed. We now need to (a) police these cunts within an inch of their lives and (b) jail/sterilise their untermensch arses out of existence.

    There. Done. Time for a lie down.

  • billy

    Red card ‘billy’ – ed Mod

  • Moderator

    Moderators,

    Can we leave Billy’s remarks until Mick sees them. I think there may be enough information to track and report the cretin.

    Thank you.

  • Class War

    You’re not wrong BORED.

  • Phoenix

    Neal,

    You are wrong. He teaches at BOTH. His PHD is from Harvard. Sorry I did not include the bigot’s complete bio. Here you go. Nice how you put in a little snippet about “facts”.

    Everything you say is just your opinion. That is the flaw in the anti-racist argument. They simply present ‘opinions’ as facts. Or better yet give some Universal definition of Hate and they only apply it when it appeals to them. Typical. And you call me closed minded. Well, I was raised a Communist.

    “Ignatiev teaches in the Department of Critical Studies at Massachusetts College of Art and is a fellow at Harvard’s W.E.B. DuBois Institute. A frequent public speaker, he has also taught at Bowdoin College and Harvard University.”

    The class issue is extremely important. White Working Class folks are openly being sold out by their Elites. Not by the immigrants or non whites. By and large, it is a class issue. The white working class is getting replaced. It is class warfare. White folks are at Civil War with their elites. Most do not even know it. Some of you know it deep down inside and say it under your breath. Or disguise it in universal terms.

    Anytime someone in a lilly white wealthy neighborhood says they support immigration it should come with a disclaimer:”as long as it is not in the elite neighborhoods and as long as they work for nothing”. You all know that is true. They will piss on their own countrymen for a dollar.

    But anyone white in the working class knows they are getting stuffed. It really has nothing to do with immigration. That is just a tool of the elites to divide and rule. No differant than religion. But much more effective than religion.

    All of you may despise me and that is fine. But deep down inside –you know alot of what I am saying is true. You are just practicing the New State sponsored Religion of Political Correctness. Political Correctness is a religion. It is like Buddhism and Scientology is so far as there is no god. But like all religions. Nothing is examined and everything is based on faith.

    We dont build churches anymore –this religion demands Universities and Anti-Racist Camps. There are no revivals were all the christians yell “I have sinned”. There are just meetings were idiots yell “I am a racist”. Same thing.

    You are attacking me just like your dysfunctional ancestors attacked anyone who they thought was a witch and burnt them alive. “Dunk Phoenix in water five times and if she comes up wet –surely she must be a witch”. Racism is the new witchcraft. What was witchcraft? Whatever they wanted it to be. So I guess you could just as well say that I am not a racist but a witch.

    Political Correctness and all of it’s manifestations proclaim themselves to be “the truth”. All Religions proclaim themselves to be the truth. The Catholic Church has proclaimed itself as the Truth from day one. What is more common than the Protestants proclaiming themselves as possession of truth?

    Anyone that does not accept that this new religion is the “absolute truth”. Immediately is sent for re-education (more like indoctrination –sensitivity training) or attacked physically.

    Political Correctness operates like the dysfunctional elements of Christianity. Guilt and pure self hatred. Now it is not the ‘vows of poverty’ all the other nonsense. It is the vows to stand up against “racism”. Insanity.

    Anti-Racism (and all the PC doctrine) are just simply new outlets for western guilt and self hatred. Those traits are as old as Europe. Every religion in the west has dwelled on those two things—esp. Christianity.

    I am only asking for freedom from your religion. Why all the threats of violence? I am not oppressing the working class (white or otherwise). I would never bring in low cost labour to divide and rule and undermine the wage structure and sow the seeds of ethnic conflict that destroy neighborhoods. I would never bring folks into a country and expect them to live in hell holes and work for free. NEVER would I do those things. But I am the bad person for pointing out the obvious.

  • Phoenix

    Baluba,

    Don’t insult me. I would not waste the paint. By the way, most of you fools would be shocked if you knew what did for a living. Your sooo presumptious and arrogant. I am not some yob yelling at Nickie Boy as he walks out of court.

  • Phoenix

    Class War,

    I have nothing against you. You will be on my side. In fact, you are already are. I am just ahead of you a little in seeing what THEY have planned for your future (and your little ethnic friends as well). I had the misfortune of seeing your future way before you.

    Sorry to disappoint, I am not walking around with the National Front holding up some flag. LOL. But you will see me some time in the future. No doubt about it.

    And brother, do not insult me by talking about Stormwhatever or the BNP. Why would I want to be in the BNP? They have no power. NONE.
    “Copy and Paste”?? I am a little too original for that.

  • Fishfiss

    DUP….Orange Order…BNP…not a million miles apart ideologically speaking. Discuss

  • bertie

    This is a disturbing development to say the least.

    I had always thought that these groups had trouble making inroads here because although they tend to be anti-republican, their target audience here is generally pro Isreali.

    Sweeping statements I know, but not without some validity.

  • Dualta

    I posted this on an earlier thread and I’m just going to copy and paste it onto this one. The geographical area taking in the people I will tell you about stretches from Limavady, through Garvagh, Bushmills, Mosside, Ballymoney and Dervock and, of course, Coleraine.

    The UDA in North Antrim and Londonderry have organised within their ranks a chapter of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
    The chief pointy hat of this chapter is none other than the local brigadier himself, known as ‘The Mexican’.

    This is no fantasy. They have even published a photograph and article in their magazine, Warrior (Summer 2002), showing a man in full Klan regalia, standing in front of a burning cross as evidence of the group’s existence.

    This article was produced as evidence of an attack, by KKK members, on a house occupied by a non-white man in Bushmills which had been earlier reported in a Coleraine newspaper, but dismissed by the local DUP.

    This brigade holds its formal links with a klan faction in America dearly. There have been visits. Its members also enjoy links with far-right organisations across Europe, including in the former-Yugoslavia where they have forged links with Serbian far-right groups, one of which is the Whites Tigers, the paramilitary group once headed by Arkan, the notorious war criminal from the Balkans war.