Slugger O'Toole

Conversation, politics and stray insights

“…this DUP attempt to shift responsibility to Dublin, is a fiction too far.”

Tue 25 September 2012, 8:31am

Fascinating OpEd in yesterday’s Irish News from Fianna Fail leader Micheál Martin. It’s the first time since I remember that a senior political leader in the Republic has taken the gloves off with anyone in Northern Ireland, let alone the First and deputy First Minister.

So what is it that’s got his goat?

Nothing less than the DUP’s motion in the Assembly (hot on the heels of the SDLP using the same mechanism to embarrass both ‘ruling parties’) criticising the Dublin government’s role in the troubles.

What’s interesting about Martin’s attack on the Stormont Castle (aka OFMdFM) parties is that it imputes a corrosive commonality of interest between the two, with the DUP focusing their rage on Dublin rather than its partner in government, Sinn Fein.

But first he cuts at Labour and Fine Gael:

What has happened that would allow otherwise responsible and civic minded public representatives ignore the historical facts and revert to an old language of confrontation, aggression and disrespect?

The first and most obvious conclusion is that the new Irish Government is no longer maintaining the sort of close and involved relationship with Stormont as the Governments I was privileged to serve in always did. Fianna Fáil Governments over the last ten years made some well documented mistakes, but taking progress in the North for granted was never one of them.

The fact that this issue got to the point where the First Minister is signing his name to a motion based on a false and facetious analysis of history and is heedless of the effect it would have on the relationship with Dublin represents a major failure in North–South politics and the Irish Government does need to answer questions about how it came to this.

From here it gets interesting from a northern point of view. Fitting Martin’s strategy of using the heavy mortality figures from the IRA’s thirty year armed campaign to negatively brand Sinn Fein’s credentials in the south he also puts Sinn Fein on side with the DUP’s attack on civil authority in Dublin:

…something profound is happening in the relationship between the DUP and Sinn Féin. At one level, if this is evidence of the two parties becoming comfortable with each other’s histories, it could be spun as a positive development.

I know, as a former Minister with responsibilities in the North, of the massive effort that was put into bringing Sinn Féin into democratic politics and of the wasted years of frustration as Dublin, London and others in the North worked hard to try and bring Sinn Féin and the DUP together. In that context, you could argue that a motion rewriting the history of the conflict which suits this relationship, is progress of a sort.

But is it positive progress? I for one don’t think so. For a relationship to develop real bonds of trust, it needs to be based on truth. While Sinn Féin and in fact the DUP may take comfort from a fiction which moves responsibility for what happened in Northern Ireland over the border, the problem for both is that it just isn’t true.

The DUP has sought an apology from the Irish Government. I listened to some of the contributions made during the debate and it is clear that the pain and anger caused by the activities of the IRA is still raw and still real. I understand this anger. Indeed, I share it. But surely if an apology is to mean anything, it must be genuine.

It must be offered by those who hold moral responsibility for the actions involved. The death of almost 1,800 men, women and children at the hands of the IRA was a hideous crime against their neighbours, against their country and against the proud ambitions of Irish Republicanism.

And he continues with a defence of civil authority over insurgency:

If the DUP wants to point a finger of blame for the emergence and subsequent activity of the Provisional movement, it needs to look much closer to home. It could begin by seeking to better understand the role of a Northern Ireland Unionist Government that actively discriminated against Catholics and then sought to crush a legitimate and peaceful civil rights movement. A disastrous decision then exploited by those who thought the interests of their community were best served through violence.

Even more appropriately, it could speak directly to its partners in the current Northern Ireland Government. It could ask First Minister Martin McGuinness to tell the truth of the IRA under his command. It could demand that Sinn Féin Leader Gerry Adams account for his tenure on the Army Council of the IRA and ask him to answer the charges made by Brendan Hughes regarding the abduction, murder and disappearance of the body of Jean McConville.

I know personally, from my time in Government and from the work of members of my family in the Garda Siochana of the effort and sacrifice made by Ireland’s police and army to thwart the activities of the IRA. While the Republic escaped the worst excesses of murder and sectarian violence, with some notable and sickening exceptions, the threat posed to the stability of this state by so-called Republicans was no less severe than it was in Northern Ireland.

Like the SDLP, there is little margin for Martin in attacking the DUP just for the sake of it. In reality this combines as a defence of the Republic with a powerplay in Sinn Fein’s own backyard.

After last week’s confrontation of Gerry Adams on RTE, it’s clear that Martin is looking for opportunities to revivify SF’s past. Tarring them by association with a truculent and unfocused attack on the civil powers in Dublin by the DUP merely sugars the pill.

And not just for southerners but for northern nationalists too.

Fianna Fail is in no position to fulfil any speculation of moving their political troops north of the border. Yet who else speaks as directly as this to those northern nationalists who still have problems endorsing, even retrospectively, the IRA’s armed campaign?

For any talk of their early demise the Soldiers of Destiny haven’t gone away you know…

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Comments (44)

  1. Nevin (profile) says:

    Micheál Martin’s op-ed plus contributions from Valerie Robinson and Maeve Connolly of the Irish News

    So while I would fully support any initiative aimed at getting to the truth of what was done by the IRA and to extract apologies from those who were responsible, this DUP effort to rewrite history and attempt to shift responsbility to Dublin, is a fiction too far. .. MM

    MM doesn’t seem too keen for the truth about the sins of omission and commission by various Dublin administrations to be revealed.

    Even at a relatively innocuous level, he’s most unlikely to describe the roles played by civil servants from the departments of Foreign Affairs and Justice in day-to-day policing decisions whilst he was a minister at the DFA. Such roles could be examined in the context of the PRM’s Athboy strategy, a strategy that has been significantly reduced but not discontinued.

    It’s most unlikely that events that led up to the bombing of Omagh in 1998 can be fully understood without an examination of the strategies and actions/non-actions of officials of the southern state.

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  2. tacapall (profile) says:

    Brilliant Nevin in your haste to blame the Irish Government you forgot to mention the involvement of British agents.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jul/26/northernireland

    December 7 2001

    “A devastating report on the police inquiry into the Omagh bombing will reveal that warnings were received and ignored, crucial intelligence was not passed to the inquiry team, key suspects were never questioned and the investigation itself was riddled with hundreds of errors.

    One of the warnings, 11 days before the atrocity in 1998, named the Co Tyrone town as the target for a terrorist attack and gave the date as August 15, the day that 29 people were killed by a Real IRA car bomb.

    The anonymous telephone caller named four people who were planning the attack. Yet, astonishingly, they were never questioned and special branch later claimed the warning had nothing to do with the bomb.

    Another warning, from a double agent whose cover name was Kevin Fulton, was unspecific about the target but named the suspected bomb-maker. Special branch also ignored his warning and the man named has never been questioned in connection with Omagh.

    It will be utterly humiliating for Sir Ronnie Flanagan, chief constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, formerly the RUC. He has consistently denied that the force received any warnings and vowed to leave no stone unturned in the search for the perpetrators of the province’s worst terrorist outrage.”

    December 13 2001

    “The report blames poor leadership for a catalogue of errors surrounding the bombing. Flanagan says he will resign and commit suicide in public if the multiple failures highlighted in the ombudsman’s damning report are true.”

    February 19 2002

    “Flanagan is forced to resign as Northern Ireland chief constable.”

    January 23 2003

    “Police chiefs abandon a legal bid to overturn O’Loan’s devastating report on the Omagh bomb investigation.”

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  3. sonofstrongbow (profile) says:

    You’ve got to hand it to Micky for his brass neck. Any Irish nationalist that can say “false and facetious analysis of history” with a straight face when referring to others’ viewpoints deserves a bit of kudos.

    He underscores the point when he goes on to step boldly onto Shinner ground and blames the nationalist murder machine’s body count on the “Northern Ireland Unionist Government”.

    His latter assertion that the threat to the Irish Republic was “no less severe than it was in Northern Ireland” is simply ludicrous.

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  4. tacapall (profile) says:

    Twenty nine people sacrificed by elements within the RUC and the British Government so as Sinn Fein could condemn violence.

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  5. Nevin (profile) says:

    “Brilliant Nevin in your haste to blame the Irish Government you forgot to mention the involvement of British agents.”

    tacapall, you might have missed the significance of ‘fully understood’; there were numerous players in the events that led up to that tragedy.

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  6. The Raven (profile) says:

    Isn’t this just another symptom of the ‘ruling class’ failure to actually get to the heart of dealing with the past? Also, isn’t it a little bit of a cack-handed attempt to divert attention away from this:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19582758

    Oh, and this:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19705774

    Ummm…and this too:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19700759

    …etc, ad nauseum. I know this sort of thing gets a yellow card, but alas, any real commentary on the subject of the economy here has been most lacking over the past few weeks, unless I’ve missed it on lessening visits here.

    I wholeheartedly endorse the thread in terms of commentary, but isn’t it just underlining how very far divorced some elements of the ‘ruling classes’ are from reality, the here and now, and what’s really important? More disappointingly, though I’m happy to be corrected, am I right in understanding that the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Investment is ‘in on this’?

    If so – and I reiterate I’m happy to be corrected – how disappointing that she has that much time on her hands.

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  7. tacapall (profile) says:

    Nevin you conveniently ignored the significance of the bomb maker being a British agent. Nor did you highlight the fact that the British government had advance warnings of where the bomb was going, what day and who were involved. You simply pointed the finger at the Irish Government in your throw mud and hope it sticks game.

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  8. Bangordub (profile) says:

    Mick,
    I think I detect the hand of Martin Manseragh in the drafting of this piece. I agree that it is unquestionably a challenge to Sinn Fein on their own turf. I don’t think they will be unduly worried about that north of the border but I think the SDLP should be. Martin is unambiguous regarding his opinions on the IRA campaign and the threat posed to the southern state as well as that here.
    I wouldn’t rule out FF ambitions in the six counties just yet.

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  9. tacapall (profile) says:

    Micheál Martin is indeed wielding a double edged sword, he knows perfectly well the the political expediency of the DUP and Sinn Fein when it comes to having connections or past histories with violence. Unfortunately for FF this is the North Of Ireland and whatever his intentions the folk that vote do so on tribal lines rather than whats politically best for them and the country. FF would get a hammering if they tested their political ambitions in the North, followed by a political hammering in the 26 counties next time round.

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  10. JR (profile) says:

    Fair play to Micheál, it id refreshing to hear a few home truths from a senior politician. As for the unionists caliming nationalists are re-wreting history.

    ‘Amadán na gcluas fada’, mar a dúirt an t-asal lena dheartháir

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  11. andnowwhat (profile) black spot says:

    Gregory Campbell is calling the truth about Bloody Sunday, Mc Gurk’s Bar, Bobby Mc Greanery, Majella O’ Hare etc.a rewriting of history. What a strange man he is

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  12. andnowwhat. I suspect Greg gets a kick out of coming out with these provocative claims knowing it gets up nats noses. His fatuous call for apology from Dublin fits into that nonsense. At least now we’ll hear no more of peter robinson’s ‘no more them and us’ speeches after yesterday’s fit of the head staggers from him at Stormont. He’s dropped the mask now well and truly

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  13. HeinzGuderian (profile) says:

    ‘Gregory Campbell is calling the truth about Bloody Sunday, Mc Gurk’s Bar, Bobby Mc Greanery, Majella O’ Hare etc.a rewriting of history. What a strange man he is’

    You mean Gregory speaks with forked tongue ?
    He wouldn’t be the only one,now would he boyo ? :-)

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  14. DoppiaVu (profile) says:

    So Peter plays to the home crowd by giving those untrustworthy southerners a bit of a kicking. By way of a response, southerners give Gerry Adams a bit of a kicking.

    Peter should grab some kudos by pretending that he meant that to happen.

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  15. SK (profile) says:

    Nice to see a politician down here finally stop pulling his punches when addressing unionism.

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  16. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    Okay. re the topic in hand, I’ve no sense of whether Mansergh is still involved with the current leadership. But Martin did a stint at DFA after Ahern.

    The point being missed by most people so far is that he’s opposing the DUP motion by lodging a defence of civil institutions over bloody insurrection.

    how much the drift he notes is the fault of Labour and Fine Gael or the de facto getalongerism Stormont Castle i couldn’t say..

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  17. Nevin (profile) says:

    “You simply pointed the finger at the Irish Government”

    tacapall, MM is doing the finger pointing – from a glass house. Now that’s not the most sensible place to operate from.

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  18. Greenflag (profile) says:

    Flogging dead horses and chasing red herrings . Both messrs Robinson and Martin would be better served in the former case by focusing on the NI economy and in Martin’s case by trying to be real opposition and not a ‘junior ‘ partner of SF which is where they are heading for come the next election to judge by the polls.

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  19. Bangordub (profile) says:

    Mick
    Surely his point is that the current southern government is failing to engage sufficiently with the Stormont administation?

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  20. tacapall (profile) says:

    “tacapall, MM is doing the finger pointing – from a glass house. Now that’s not the most sensible place to operate from.”

    http://www.u.tv/News/Unsolved-murder-probes-tainted/60b68af7-85ce-4be8-861c-9219222dec1d

    “The rehiring of retired RUC officers to assist in probes into unsolved murders taints the entire process in illegality, the High Court has heard.”

    Really Nevin when will it ever end for the RUC – Has Unionist politicians ever asked questions for the Mc Cord family, have they ever pointed their fingers at RUC Special Branch and asked questions about their role in numerous murders.

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  21. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    BD,

    That’s the ‘domestic’ point surely. I also think it’s first time we’ve seen a major political figure on this island call time on our self indulgence regarding the legacies of the past…

    But it is also part of a prepared and rather self conscious challenge to SF over its rather exclusive definition of what constitutes post independence ‘Irish Republicanism’.

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  22. Alone and Easy Target (profile) says:

    Not only is the RoI’s role just as relevant in the need to understand the campaign of murder in Northern Ireland, but it’s record on civil and religious liberty should be held up to scrutiny – both internationally and domestically.

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  23. Republic of Connaught (profile) says:

    Why did Martin bother his backside responding to stooges like Gregory Campbell?

    Stormont out of nowhere asks for an apology from Dublin … because they have nothing else to do on the hill. Annoying Dublin will keep the Dupers happy no doubt.

    Because it’s obvious London completely and utterly ignores them! The Stormont children need attention from somewhere.

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  24. John Ó Néill (profile) says:

    Could Martin not just have said we just stood idly by?

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  25. Greenflag (profile) says:

    ‘because they have nothing else to do on the hill’
    Ditto for Mr Martin obviously :(

    Somebody tell them it’s near the end of September and August is a memory !

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  26. Nevin (profile) says:

    “it’s clear that Martin is looking for opportunities to revivify SF’s past. Tarring them by association ..”

    It’s difficult to see how one could besmirch the reputation of the political wing of a fundamentally fascist organisation, the Provisional Republican Movement.

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  27. Reader (profile) says:

    tacapall: Nevin you conveniently ignored the significance of the bomb maker being a British agent. Nor did you highlight the fact that the British government had advance warnings of where the bomb was going, what day and who were involved.
    You really should have read the massive wodge of text you posted. Even Guardian prose was unable to obscure the matter that badly. The article does not say the bomb maker was an agent. The article leaves the matter open about CIRA bomb that never was – the 4 names may be interesting in the long run, but were nothing to do with the actual bomb. Suggesting that the police could have stopped a RIRA bomb by acting on duff intelligence on a CIRA bomb is pure hindsight.
    tacapall: Twenty nine people sacrificed by elements within the RUC and the British Government so as Sinn Fein could condemn violence.
    But of *course*. It’s just another Conspiracy to you, isn’t it?

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  28. Alias (profile) says:

    It’s too late for Martin to start mentioning Jean McConville to the Shinners when he knew about her murder while wearing wore his “Don’t meantion the war” peace processor hat. To mention her now looks just like the goombeen form of cynical opportunism that FF are infamous for practicing and a large dose of political desperation. He’ll end up looking like a cornered rat, with the Shinners looking like the cat. Still, if it buys him another few months as FF leader…

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  29. tacapall (profile) says:

    “The article does not say the bomb maker was an agent.”

    Thats correct the article did not say the bomb maker was a British agent but it did say the bomb maker was known and never arrested – people can make up their own minds as to why that was.

    “The article leaves the matter open about CIRA bomb that never was – the 4 names may be interesting in the long run, but were nothing to do with the actual bomb. Suggesting that the police could have stopped a RIRA bomb by acting on duff intelligence on a CIRA bomb is pure hindsight.”

    Maybe you didn’t read this bit then -

    “A devastating report on the police inquiry into the Omagh bombing will reveal that warnings were received and ignored, crucial intelligence was not passed to the inquiry team, key suspects were never questioned and the investigation itself was riddled with hundreds of errors.

    Police chiefs abandon a legal bid to overturn O’Loan’s devastating report on the Omagh bomb investigation.”

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  30. Rep of Connaught. I see Question Time is back on Thursday but on the unionists buig weekend none of their politicians are invited to discuss the covenant/blackmail of the colonial masters, embarassing that’s going to be. If there’s no trouble at the march there will be scant coverage from ITV or BBC in london, and if there is trouble it will be only negative coverage. So much for the centenary of treachery.

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  31. Nevin (profile) says:

    “THERE is merit in the DUP seeking an apology for IRA barbarity – but they are askig the wrong people.”.. Micheál Martin

    MM’s comment doesn’t tally with the motion that was supported by DUP and UUP MLAs:

    .. the current Government of the Republic of Ireland were to address the role played by the Irish Government of the day in the emergence of the Provisional IRA and the roles of past Governments regarding the pursuit of terrorists; and calls on the Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland to issue an apology.

    It was addressed to Enda Kenny following the Kingsmills meeting so perhaps the FF leader was being overly defensive.

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  32. Reader (profile) says:

    tacapall: Maybe you didn’t read this bit then -
    So, when I challenged the worth of acting on bad intelligence, you quoted a bit from the article about “the police inquiry into the Omagh bombing”. Headlines aside, the report eventually goes into detail which simply highlights the irrelevance of the Omagh warning:
    The report says nothing about a warning of a bomb attack on Omagh – the anonymous warning concerned a CIRA rocket and gun attack on the police station. It had *nothing* to do with the bomb, and it was mischievous for the report to suggest that it was relevant. Even more mischievous for the Guardian to fudge the details.

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  33. HeinzGuderian (profile) says:

    “It must be offered by those who hold moral responsibility for the actions involved. The death of almost 1,800 men, women and children at the hands of the IRA was a hideous crime against their neighbours, against their country and against the proud ambitions of Irish Republicanism.”

    Our nat/rep chums have no comment to make on this ?
    None ?

    Why am I not surprised ? :-(

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  34. tacapall (profile) says:

    Reader I would rather accept what the british newspaper says about its own government.

    Heinz all taking of life is wrong no matter the purpose, using violence to achieve ones goals is morally wrong, using violence or taking an innocent life to stop murder or violence, is just as wrong lawfully and morally. But of course some people especially those who believe they are above the law can turn a blind eye to those who take an innocent life, supposedly to stop the taking of live, while pointing the finger at others screaming for justice. But justice has to be for all, no-one is above the law and no uniform or badge should shield anyone from the law.

    Unionists are hypocrites.

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  35. Greenflag (profile) says:

    @ heinz guderian ,

    ‘Our nat/rep chums have no comment to make on this ?’

    At this stage 40 years on from the worst of the conflict/violence/terrorism /war /sectarian strife etc – its all been said so often including apologies and regrets from all sides that comment seems superflous one way or the other .

    I’m not surprised either . Both Robinson and Martin seem to have little enough to do than rake over the past .More focus on the future is what’s required . The Germans , French ,British and Russians killed each other by the tens of millions during two world wars and they don’t go on with a fraction of the ‘whining ‘ that unionists /nationalists /loyalists/republicans go on with in NI .

    Move along lads or it’ll be the 22nd century and you will all still be whataboutering up each other’s rear ends . Meanwhile the world moves on and NI falls further behind in it’s search for long term viability as a sustainable state as does the Republic .

    I read that India has more billionaires than Britain and it’s budget deficit is less than that of the UK . Despite this 600 million Indians have no choice but to defecate in the open and GDP per capita is about one third that of China .

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  36. Greenflag (profile) says:

    @ tacapall

    ‘All taking of life is wrong no matter the purpose ‘

    So WW2 was’nt justified ? The Gulags and the Extermination camps should have been ignored ? The Balkans in the 1990′s should have been allowed to run up a genocidal several million deaths instead of the 300,000 they suffered ?

    And the British Government should have turned it’s back on both communities in Northern Ireland and allowed them to slaughter each other by the tens of thousands ?

    Get real tacapall

    We all know how the world is supposed to work in theory but sadly the brutal facts of imperial and colonial history not to mention all of the wars since time immemorial tell us that human beings are capable of great deeds and achievements no matter their nation and as equally capable of genocide and cruelty and discrimination towards any and all ethnic /religious or minority groups again no matter the nation .

    Jared Diamond has a ‘league table ‘ of world genocides in the past 50 and 100 years . Northern Ireland doesn’t rate a mention nor does the War of Independence nor the Civil War.

    ‘Unionists are hypocrites.’

    Thats a large brush :(

    Some ‘unionists ‘ are hypocrites but then too so are some nationalists and some republicans and some loyalists and some economists and some politicians and some slugger commenters .

    I suppose your next offerings will include such earth shattering newsflashes like the English are gay :( the French are arrogant , the Americans are obese and ugly , the Israelis are latter day nazis ?

    jesus wept -again:(

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  37. tacapall (profile) says:

    Greenflag couldn’t give a fk who’s gay, who’s obese or ugly nor do I give a toss about some carpet beggar being arrogant but this -

    “The Gulags and the Extermination camps should have been ignored ? The Balkans in the 1990′s should have been allowed to run up a genocidal several million deaths instead of the 300,000 they suffered ”

    None of it should be ignored but did you forget to mention NATO soldiers standing idly by while men women and children were being hacked to death just a few yards up the road, TV crews an all were there remember Rawanda. Maybe like all wars, life depends on how much others value your right to exist.

    “The real question, as ever, is what to do about Islam. ‘

    Nothing . Leave them to their own devices . If they are immigrants to the west then just ensure that they sign documents on arrival or prior to gaining citizenship that they will not indulge in practices such as forced marriages or the non education of young girls etc”

    Jesus wept – Really

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  38. Greenflag (profile) says:

    tacapall .

    ‘none of it should be ignored’

    What exactly does that mean ?

    ‘did you forget to mention NATO soldiers standing idly by ‘

    Did you forget that as per your post above -25 September 2012 at 9:33 pm- that that is what you approve of i.e standing idly by – or perhaps not even being there ? You are making an eejit of yourself by your own false logic.

    Immigrants are welcome but they can leave their Sharia law behind them . We had enough of that crap in the Middle Ages !

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  39. tacapall (profile) says:

    Greenflag I think its you who’s not only making an idiot out of yourself but a hypocrite also.

    “Did you forget that as per your post above -25 September 2012 at 9:33 pm- that that is what you approve of i.e standing idly by – or perhaps not even being there”

    No I didn’t forget anything. Did I say they should stand idly by or that they should not have been there ? Are you saying there is no other way to stop people killing or using violence other than killing and using violence to stop it ?

    “Immigrants are welcome but they can leave their Sharia law behind them . We had enough of that crap in the Middle Ages”

    Abide by our laws or else but we who enforce the law have the choice to determine what laws we will abide by. – Western democracy.

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  40. Greenflag (profile) says:

    ‘Did I say they should stand idly by or that they should not have been there ?’

    Whatever you are saying or trying to say seems unclear even to yourself .

    ‘Are you saying there is no other way to stop people killing or using violence other than killing and using violence to stop it ?’

    No but that’s whats happened since the first man picked up a club to beat his neighbour for water hole rights . There was a chap -name of Jesus Christ who believed in another way but I believe he was crucified for his idealism . Several other famous philosophers -Buddha , Confucius etc etc also preached a broadly similar message . Mohammad was exceptional in that his conversion technique primarily involved the sword .

    ‘Abide by our laws or else but we who enforce the law have the choice to determine what laws we will abide by. – Western democracy.’

    Laws are determined by parliaments in the western world usually after debate and with regard to constitutional provisions . Its up to people to elect the politicians to change the laws if necessary and ultimately if enough people demanded that laws should be changed they have been at least in most parliamentary democracies .

    Of course some ‘enforcers’ have abused their powers . But that too is against the law .

    Where there is law there is injustice and where there is no law there is even more injustice . So I would’nt go looking for absolute justice – it doesn’t exist .

    If you are ok with Sharia law being the law of the land then maybe you need to look for a visa for Iran or Saudi Arabia ! In Ireland you have a multiple choice of airports ! In the UK even more !

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  41. tacapall (profile) says:

    Greenflag you are avoiding the very point that I was making !

    “But of course some people especially those who believe they are above the law can turn a blind eye to those who take an innocent life, supposedly to stop the taking of live, while pointing the finger at others screaming for justice. But justice has to be for all, no-one is above the law and no uniform or badge should shield anyone from the law.

    “Where there is law there is injustice and where there is no law there is even more injustice . So I would’nt go looking for absolute justice – it doesn’t exist”.

    I think most reasonable people would regard that as being in no way applicable to what I said above, misdemeanors yes but murder I dont think so.

    “If you are ok with Sharia law being the law of the land then maybe you need to look for a visa for Iran or Saudi Arabia ! In Ireland you have a multiple choice of airports ! In the UK even more”

    Its mind boggling how you came to the conclusion I would agree to Sharia law but then I remembered I met a gypsy one day and she offered to tell me my future. You can tell by reading my opinion on your view that immigrants must follow our laws but those who administer it can cherry pick which ones they will abide by.

    Like these people -

    The American Armchair Revolutionary

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=18414

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  42. Greenflag (profile) says:

    I took an aspiring back in 1995 if I remember correctly -I don’t eat fast food – and I drink abstemiously -I don’t care for generals , lawyers , banksters or priests and as for gypsy fortune tellers and tarot card readers I suggest if you are in the habit of frequenting them you’d be better advised to remain in your armchair .

    The people who shout ‘all power to the people ‘ usually mean ‘all power to the people who shout all power to the people ‘

    Sadly thats the human condition . Politicians and lawyers are just the necessary excretory organs of the body politic just as the arsehole and intestines are for the body physical .

    I’m not avoiding your message that some of those who administer our laws ‘cherry pick ‘ and that the wealthy and powerful can avoid the worst consequences or indeed any consequences of their law breaking -which is why I favour capital punishment for capital in the financial sense crimes which destroy the lives , savings and homes of millions of taxpayers all over the world !

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  43. The neutrality of a supposedly neutral signatory to the Belfast Agreement laid bare.

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  44. […] seen a lot of outraged (and outrageous) speeches in recent days from politicians representing the British Unionist minority in the north-east of […]

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