Good news, Gerry! The Human Rights Act is here to stay

Another of Gerry Adams’ sticking points for returning to the Assembly seems about to disappear. The on- off on sequence of the May government’s  commitment to a new British Bill of Rights to replace the Human Right Act now looks permanently off the agenda and not just delayed until after 2020, according to  Daily Telegraph sources.  Despite her frustrations with enforcing exclusion orders against militant Islamists, Theresa May has at last bowed to pressure from many sides not to pick unnecessary fights  north of the English border and across the Irish Sea where the Human Rights act was embedded in the GFA. I look forward to Mr Adams giving a warm welcome to the decision.

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  • Let’s hope that promise is followed more faithfully than the Irish Language Act commitment

  • Brian Walker

    The HRA exists. The Irish Language Act doesn’t. The first requires no action, the second requires action. Which do you think is easier?

  • Katyusha

    Good news.

    Scrapping the HRA and withdrawing from the ECHR has been on May’s agenda for a long time, and was the surest proof that she could be dangerous if given a free hand. Glad to see such plans kicked into the long grass, hopefully never to be seen or heard of again.

  • the keep

    It never fails to amaze me how Republicans who supported the armed campaign believe so strongly in human rights.

  • Roger

    I agree with Senator David Norris’s colourful take on that.

  • file

    Whatever you do, Brian, never pass up an opportunity to have a dig at Sinn Féin. I just read a Fine Gael politician stating that Sinn Féin is not ‘a modern, democratic party’. Is that your opinion too? Do the votes of all us democrats who vote for the party not really count for as much as the votes of those who vote for other parties?

  • Steptoe

    What the hell are you talking about?
    The people voted to leave the EU. If you haven’t got it by now, the European Convention on Human Rights is completely separate!
    This is where I believe misconceptions start. When people spew totally inaccurate comments such as yours. This is so fundamental I’ll say it again. The EU and the Convention are TOTALLY SEPERATE.
    The convention acts to ensure all member states compliance with basic human rights obligations. This won’t be reported much but in the aftermath of the horrors of the Second World War, guess who was the most ardent supporter of the creation of such a convention? Yep, Churchill and the British government.

  • Steptoe

    There are so many misconceptions around the Human Rights Act, aided by a drip drip feed by the right wing media who have their own agenda for scrapping the Act. I urge people to read the following myth busting blog
    http://rightsinfo.org/infographics/the-14-worst-human-rights-myths/

  • Pigeon Toes

    Got there before me and more eloquently put…

  • Donagh

    So let me get this straight. Some anonymous source tells the Torygraph the HRA won’t be scrapped and you expect Gerry Adams to rush to comment? I thought the DUP/RHI blackout was bad but this site is feckin’ bonkers. The tone of what passes for blogs here make the Daily Express and Belfast Newsletter look positively sensible.

  • lizmcneill

    How many times has May supposedly changed her mind on the ECHR/HRA by now?

  • Brian Walker

    Whstever you do file, never pass up an opportunity to begrudge!

  • Brian Walker

    You fundamentally misunderstand .The HRA incorporates the European Convention into British law administered by the independent British judiciary

  • Roger

    In the 30s the National Socialist Party in Weimar Germany got a lot of votes too. That doesn’t mean it was as democratic as some other parties of the time.

  • Brian Walker

    Relax. Perfectly happy for Gerry to wait for confirmation.

  • JOHN TURLEY

    Some journalists are also saying Sinn Fein are unfit for government
    not much respect for democracy there.

  • JOHN TURLEY

    Any fool can do the easy thing.It takes a person of character to do the right thing.

  • epg_ie

    What else should the government be warmly praised for not doing?

    Should bad Gerry have to warmly welcome the DUP’s not authorising the massacre of the innocents? After all, the DUP are genius political wizards so they deserve an even warmer welcome than lovely HM gov.

  • epg_ie

    Doing things is hard so don’t ask the DUP to do anything, even though they play political blinders and run rings around Sinn Féin (copyright S O’Toole & co).

  • mickfealty

    An Irish Language Act will probably take three years, in a Parliament that has yet to craft any large piece of government legislation. Don’t hold your breathJohn.

  • mickfealty

    That being the court rather than the convention. Seems to be a lot of confusion over that Kate. Scrapping the HRA was always an expensive vanity project. Glad they’ve finally accepted Grieve’s advice.

  • mickfealty

    To all intents even the replacement Bill of Rights would had to have done the same. An act that lessened citizen rights wouldn’t have got through the Commons.

  • On the fence!

    So does the European Court of Human Rights enforce the European Convention on Human Rights?

  • mickfealty

    Blair promised them one, then prompted promised the DUP power to draft one would be devolved. I suggest SF were bested in negotiation over that one.

    Never made sense to me to keep complaining about since it only gives fuel to the Rollover Republicans narrative.

  • Brian Walker

    Indeed.. the worrying aspects were first, Theresa May’s persistence against near-unanimous legal advice due to her frustrations over the deportations of islamists ; and second, ignoring the fact that with the HRA unlike Brexit, there were real problems with the GFA.
    Irish issues and perhaps human rights generally, may be second or even third order business for her, as we’re seeing in the two summits she rushed to have with two of the most volatile creatures on the planet.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    DUP/RHI black out? Eh?

  • Karl

    Being part of multiple wars in the middle east which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians doesn’t appear to stop the British government from disagreeing with the use of torture.
    Those cows out there are far away. Small…..far away.

  • Karl

    A Parliament or an Assembly?? What do you know?

  • Lionel Hutz

    What are you talking about?

  • Brian Walker

    Let’s just say this is further off topic than I hoped. But ok, I started it in one oblique reference…

  • file

    You know the rule where the first one to bring up the Nazis, by default, loses the argument? well, you were first …

  • Neil

    One could go further and say that the only party who had the means and opportunity to display their anti democratic credentials were the Official Unionists of old, and we saw what they got up to. Weimar Germany was very democratic in itself, as Roger says it was merely the Nazi Party who were anti democratic in their nature. If I asked you would you trust the DUP to exercise complete power in a democratic fashion I suspect you would have reservations, as would I.

  • file

    It would not stop them being a modern, democratic party, like all parties in the West. None of them are the Taliban. In one party governments, all parties become dictators for the term of the government; they only differ in degree. They are still modern, democratic parties though.

  • file

    Some journalists are not fit for journalism.

  • Annie Breensson

    Should we infer that the Torygraph is the UK version of Pravda?

  • Steptoe

    In short, yes it does. The Human Rights Act 1998 then, in the words of the Labour Government of the day “brought rights home”. This means, inter aila, that British Citizens were able to exercise their convention rights at their local Court, as opposed to having to go all the way to Strasbourg which they previously would have to do.

  • wild turkey

    Brian. you have the makings of Zen Master, in the post below, file offered you an open goal….. and you did not take, or make, the kick.

    so many people on this site expect to see the footprints of birds in the sky.

    it is not that simple, is it?

  • mickfealty

    Yes. But they are still not the same thing.

  • AntrimGael

    Totally true. I am loathe to criticise people but what passes for journalism in the South is a disgrace to that profession. Most of the print media is controlled by self serving oligarchs and right wing big business elements. The broadcasting media has also been largely dominated by those who have always been hostile to the Northern Nationalist community and who have pushed out a British/Unionist narrative for the past 40 years.
    In a global sense the South is a small place and many within the Southern political/media/business Establishments went to the same private schools, they mix in the same private golf and drinking clubs and they have a large stake in the wealth of that country. They have been looking after each other for decades and Sinn Fein, the Peace Process and 900,000 Northern Nationalists will not be allowed to disturb this cosy cartel; they would rather see the North go down the tubes again than the Shinners get anywhere near power. That is over the past few days they have gone into overdrive at the prospect of Sinn Fein in government. Enda Kenny has been hauled in by them and told in no uncertain terms….don’t dare go against…..the Family!

  • AntrimGael

    The hypocrisy of these people makes my blood boil. The usual media crowd in the South are pushing out front page articles, editorials and ‘opinion’ pieces telling anyone and everyone that Sinn Fein aren’t fit for government because of what the IRA did. This week a FG minister said that SF couldn’t be accepted into government because they need to tell the truth about the past 40 years?
    I now look forward to this same crowd telling the British Tories, Labour, Unionism and Loyalism that they can no longer accept them in any facet of government because they MUST tell the truth about the past. I now hope to see critical front page columns in Dublin demanding that Britain will accept the Barron report and admit it’s role in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs; that Britain must tell the truth about McGurks Bar, the New Lodge and Ballymurphy massacres etc; that Britain gives us the truth about the UVF bombing campaign in the late 60’s against power and water installations BEFORE the Provos came into existence; that Britain gives us the the truth about the Glennane gang, the Mount Vernon UVF; Brian Nelson; the murders of Eddie Fullerton, Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson and many Sinn Fein politicians in the late 80’s and early 90’s etc.
    I now expect scathing condemnations from the Southern media, FG and FF about ALL of the above…….but we know the score. The silnce from this crowd of two faced, stomach churning hypocrites will be deafening.

  • Jollyraj

    Rather a stupid rule, if you don’t mind my saying so.

  • file
  • Mike the First

    Must be terrible for you having someone force you to read this site, as I assume has to be the case…

  • Brian Walker

    This needs unpicking. The southern parties won’t ever have to consider forming a government with the British Tories- an important difference. On “the truth” your list shows we know quite a lot about them already. What I think you want are prosecutions. I thInk Brokenshire is wrong to take the opposite line to yours.

    But even though you think it’s hypocritical no other party in Dublin will rush to form a government with Sinn Fein which has a recent revolutionary past. Sinn Fein have some way to go, probably including the final retirement of the old warriors. You can point out all the holes in the argument you like. However in politics you never quite know.

  • ted hagan

    It will always be hypocritical because Fine Gael and Fianna Fail emerged from terrorism, and yes, their founders murdered people, murdered civilians, murdered soldiers, all of which happens in a revolution, unfortunately. Their leaders were among the first governments of the new Irish Republic, though sadly selling out on many of the principles of the Declaration.
    So what’s the difference exactly?

  • On the fence!

    But maybe you should have read it properly first.

    “Godwin’s law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent’s argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.”

    Roger wins!

  • Reader

    file: It’s not my rule.
    The bit where you say the person who raised the comparison has lost; that’s your rule, as it isn’t in the link.

  • Katyusha

    It is, under the heading “corollaries and usage”.

  • AntrimGael

    No Brian, I and many Nationalists like me, are NOT pushing for prosecutions for the above. While I can certainly understand the families may feel differently the wider Nationalist community are really not pushing this. I personally don’t see the benefit of prosecuting British soldiers in their 60’s and 70’s or the likes of Winston Rea or Gerry McGeough.
    What we do want is acknowledgement from Unionism, the British AND the Southern Establishments hat ALL of the above happened and to stop this one sided narrative that Republicans were to blame for the conflict. Let’s not kid ourselves, the aggressive Southern campaign about Sinn Fein in government is NOT about the past, it’s very much about the present. The cosy, right wing, partitionust cartel that control much of the South are totally petrified that their comfortable wee club may be not be as easy with the Shinners as ministers.

  • AntrimGael

    Surely it’s also two fingers up to Unionists from the Southern Establishment? They tell Unionists to go into government with Sinn Fein in the North but refuse to do so themselvesin the South!! If that’s not hypocrisy of the worst kind I don’t know what is.

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    May’s chronic flip-flopping is becoming an embarrassment to anyone with any sense of logical thought. She appears to have no moral sense whatsoever – just an ever-shifting awareness of how wrong her initial judgements have been, and a very late appreciation of the fact that she will have to change them. She goes around with an aura of misplaced confidence which we all know will be replaced in a few more days by an equal confidence in it’s opposite.

    I can’t see her lasting 4 years.

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    In your dreams!

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    I think you are wrong there.
    a) It didn’t need to be said, and,
    b) when it is said, the glaring incongruities between the statement and reality become even more apparent.

  • file

    [By law (Godwin’s) this thread should already be closed. out of goodness, I should point out that my mentioning Godwin’s Law in the first place was light-hearted and tongue-in-cheek. Who does Godwin think he is anyway, some sort of Hitl …?]

  • file

    You don’t like it up ya, Brian, do ya?

  • ted hagan

    Yes, fully agree.

  • ted hagan

    That’s about right, although I would say SF has often proved inconsistent and clumsy when it has come to tackling the nitty-gritty of politics in the South, especially in formulating economic policies, at which Gerry Adams has been embarrassingly poor.

  • ted hagan

    I wouldn’t trust the DUP in those circumstances. Mind you, I certainly wouldn’t trust SF either.

  • ted hagan

    The logic of this would be to introduce an Irish Language Act at Stormont and then play pretend with it, just like they did with the St Andrew’s Agreement. I’m sure both main parties would be up to that and everybody would be happy again..

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Wow! “Re-education” – “marking yourself out” – sounds like you are implying that it won’t be voluntary. We all know where that ends. Nice of you to clarify Trump’s, and your, position on all that for us, Austin.

  • Skibo

    Many a war has been fought over human rights and equality.

  • Skibo

    Could it not be brought in through a private members bill? the issue of opposition was brought about in such a way.

  • Skibo

    Is there a difference in the European Court of Human Rights and the European Court of Justice?

  • Skibo

    I believe TM’s last issue on it was her decision to end the control of the ECJ over Britain and not the ECHR. I had made the same mistake previously.

  • mickfealty

    It could, but I cannot see something as large and complex as it would need to be to give it meanful force across government being drafted up by an independent.

  • Skibo

    I believe most of the legwork has already been done by Caral Ni Cuilin has the bulk of the work already done. It would be interesting to see what UUP’s attitude would be. I believe it is yet another subject where SDLP and the UUP do not read off the same script. Actually the more I look at their relationship, the more I realise they are as far apart at the DUP and SF.

  • mickfealty

    We saw this with educational reform, didn’t we? No cross community consensus, no deal. As it is with the Irish Language Act, so it is with a UI.

    If Caral has it all done already, then I suspect her version will stay were it is: on the shelf gathering dust for the foreseeable.

  • Skibo

    Mick there is a ribbon through everything that the DUP oppose. It comes from who proposes it. If it comes from SF, DUP will automatically oppose it. They say SF politicise the Irish language by using it along with English yet when SDLP do it they are praised.
    As for educational reform, MMcG did away with the 11plus and the DUP opposed it. Nearly all educational groups outside the actual grammar scheme agree with SF. SDLP agree with SF but that is never mentioned.
    Integrated education will be the future but must be by consent. Maybe we should have what happened in southern USA where soldiers were used to allow black students to attend white schools. If you look at the South, you will see there is still substantial areas of white supremacy.
    Education will be the future. I was brought up in the Catholic education system and taught to respect everyone regardless of their religion. We were taught Irish and our Gaelic games but we played tennis and soccer also.
    I heard a story first hand where a woman attending a local function, the hall was unavailable and was moved to the local state high school. She noticed the pictures on the wall painted by the children and one in particular caught her attention. It had a picture of the moon with tricolours on it and a rocket. The heading on the picture was “all taigs go to the moon” Now I know some parents will regurgitate their sectarian hatred it their children but here was an example of a teacher promoting sectarian hatred. Pity it was before mobile phones with cameras.

  • mickfealty

    As the Bard once put it: “nothing comes from nothing.” That’s why nothing useful will ever come from that relationship.

  • Skibo

    As a good Christian community, we have a tendency to believe that something can come from nothing and a good cup of tea can solve everything.

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Clever avoidance of the question, there. It would seem that there is now a new word for a right-wing extremist – a Trumper!

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Consider yourself even more fortunate to have your own reality. I imagine you would consider that that ‘trumps’ moral authority!

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    And even further than you noticed at the time!

  • Steptoe

    You sir, are an idiot

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Flattery, really.

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Or more likely, rabid, howling tories.

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    That’s ‘your’ ‘reality’ again.