Adams v Martin: Well that escalated quickly

This morning the Fianna Fail leader, Micheal Martin and the Sinn Fein President, Gerry Adams went head to head over remarks made by Martin at the annual 1916 commemoration yesterday where he stated that Sinn Fein where unfit for democratic government.

Here is the audio of the tense exchange between the two leaders


Who got the better of whom in this exchange?

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  • An intensifying Sinn Féin-Fianna Fáil rivalry. After hearing this clip, I’d be interested to see a Adams-Martin one-on-one TV debate.

  • mickfealty
  • Simian Droog

    Hmm, I hear Jean McConville, Jean McConville, Jean McConville followed by Adams destroying Martin in one long comment. Martin ends up sounding riled. Simple matter of fact is that most people aren’t really going to worry about the McConville issue in this day and age. It’s just old news now. Whereas the financial crisis? Well, that’s still hurting.

  • mickfealty

    That’s pretty cynical, but not an unreasonable surmise SD. The real sting for me though was Martin’s pinning the systematic hiding of child abusers on Adams personally. That one remains contemporary and ongoing.

    And I think that was reflected somewhat in the uncharacteristic timorousness in Adams’ voice. As Martin pointed out during the interview Adams went for him (Martin) rather than dealing with the issues being raised.

  • chrisjones2

    Agreed…..its the cover up and culture of the abuse of women and children in the movement that is so damaging because it comes from within and also reveals the character of the organization and some of the key members

  • Jay

    Culture? How many cases has there been?

  • james

    Hmmm…yes, we shouldn’t care that a number of people who knew him well have accused the SF president of ordering up murder? Why not? Because he is too big a name? Wasn’t that, in essence, how Jimmy Savile stayed out of jail in his lifetime?The Sinn Fein defence on this seems to be that the more people who accuse him, the less credible the accusation. Wow…the greatest trick the devil ever pulled….

  • james

    At a guess, thousands? Certainly if you include punishment beatings on minors, and attacks on women for going out with soldiers and so forth.

  • Makhno

    All I can hear is Mehole’s insincerity and desparation oozing from every pore. And isn’t it a good job that there was no child abuse occurring on the part of the State during FF’s tenure in office. Oh…hold on…

  • Westprog

    For many, many years, FF could rely on loyal followers who would excuse and deflect everything the party did. This was at its peak in the Haughey years. That generation has gone, and as we regularly see in comments on SOT, the unthinking, unequivoval support has migrated to SF. FF are naturally worried about this. There’s no particular reason why, gradually, the mantle of republicanism (in an entirely meaningless sense) should not be transferred. As time goes on, the more vague and unsubstantial all those deaths appear. It gets easier to pretend it was all a struggle for civil rights, waged against an occupying army. Who wouldn’t want to believe that?

  • james

    Really? As tried by which judge? Gerry or Martin? In a civilized society, vigilantes have no place.

  • Dec

    Is it only ad hominem when a republican makes it personal?

  • Trasna

    These loyal followers of FF are in the order demographic. They are not gaining support from the younger generations.

    Thousands of women were incarcerated in Rep, FF or FG were the only ones ever in power. I’m not the only person to be utterly sickened by FF’s utter hypocrisy in the matter of child abuse and civil abuse.

    To assume FF’s unthinking supporters have moved to SF is nonsense, they’ve moved to the other Catholic nationalist party, that is FG.
    SF’s support comes from all demographics
    There’s only room for one Catholic nationalist party in a secularizing Rep.

  • Zig70

    FF say there was never any justification for a war on the north. Are they not as culpable for sitting on their hands and doing nothing? Though didn’t they half arsedly try to run guns up north?

  • BetsyGray

    …or better still …try this….?
    http://t.co/quSTtVeEQR
    ….war is indeed dreadful.

  • mickfealty

    Which?

  • Robin Keogh

    and what judge has found Adams guity of anything?

  • Robin Keogh

    The problem for Martin of course is that voters in the Republic know that it was him in government that wrecked the economy, it was his party who were in charge when tens of thousands of children were being abused in institutions all over this state, it was also his party in government when they were wooing Sinn Fein into the political process with the full knowledge of Gerry Adams and others ‘association’ with the conflict, it was also his party that were up to their necks in brown envelope corruption, clientelism and downright abuse of privilage. But much worse for Martin at the moment is that he has a very anxious party machine unsure at best if he can deliver FF from the pit of toxicity. Ultimately Martin knows that if he fails to stem the rise of SF, FF will end up as a very weak third party in the state, and given the Egotistical character of many FF heads, this scenario simply will not do. Desperation is the word and he has every reason to be desperate.
    We have yet to fully discover the extent of child abuse within the republican community, if it turns out to be anything like the church, the BBC and other institutions in these Islands we can rest assured it will be significant. We know there are other victims out there, but there stories are put on ice by indabimbo news and media until we are closer to the Dail elections. Trial by media seems to be flavour at the moment but Irish voters are becoming far more clued into what really lies behind the media’s manipulaton of abuse victims.They have scant regard for their welfare and happy to blow their chances of getting justice by using them to colour their front pages. Tens of thousands of Irish people are walking around with a secret that they just never knew what to do with. Its the great shame and tragedy of our society.
    Ultimately it is very possible that the next assault might stem the rise of SF, but only temporarily. The abuse scandals have a given timeframe, eventually it will run out of steam just like the other stories – GA ran the IRA, GA murdered people, GA covered up abuse. It all just becomes background noise to a public weary of the pathetic antics of deperate political failures such as Martin et al.
    SF unfit for democratic government? Please ! FF will be in government with SF if the numbers stack up, make no mistake about it. Adams attack on Martin is justified because like so many other people he can see the reality behind Martins desperation – hypocrisy, hopelessness and fear.

  • james

    Perhaps he has an immunity from prosecution. It certainly does seem anomalous that he hasn’t been convicted.

  • Robin Keogh

    James, he would have to have a trial before he can be convicted of anything or would you prefer we just dispense with that minor issue.

  • james

    Oh no quite the reverse: id be happy to see the trial go ahead

  • Granni Trixie

    Have you ever considered using more sensitive language when referring to people who have suffered during the troubles? How would you like it if your loved ones death were referred to as mere ” old news” or that other people don’t care?
    I’m afraid I live in a world where financial considerations matter yes but that does not blind people to the going misery unnecessarily caused by murder.

  • Jay

    The divis hoods, the ones that are wrecking west Belfast. Minors or criminals? A danger to society or wee lads just having abitta craic?

  • Simian Droog

    It’s contemporary in the sense that it seems to be a systemic issue across the entire British Isles for about four decades. The previous horror and hilariously acceptable baiting of the Catholic Church for it’s abuses and cover ups seems to have been swamped with tsunami of almost non-stop revelations from almost every institution in Britain : Government, Royalty, Education, Media, Care homes etc etc and I suspect it will only get worse. Yes I’m cynical, how can you not be when it appears that child abuse was not an exception, but the norm. With that particular backdrop all it serves to do is diminish SInn Fein and Adam’s role. I mean, it appears everyone was at it and “covers ups” are also the norm.

    Therefore, It won’t affect the majority of voters, it’s not shocking enough, austerity is the one and only issue people truly care about these days, if Sinn Fein seems to offer a way out of that, thats how people will vote. Once a degree of (relative) affluence returns then people can start to getting picky about their leader’s morality.

  • mickfealty

    As a wider problem yes. But as a party policy, no. Not at all.

  • Simian Droog

    Not particularly, what I said was true and I find it interesting that you presume I haven’t personally suffered during the troubles. But there’s the crux of the matter, suffering is personal. You’re just going to have to get used to the apathy of those disassociated from recent history.

  • chrisjones2

    Allegedly 40+ but only about 10 have broken cover

    But how many do you want? Is 3 or 4 not enough when there is such a pattern of cover up and abuse?

  • james

    So what you are saying, in essence, is that Gerry’s having allegedly: been in the IRA, probably leading it; been involved in cover-up and enabling of paedophiles; ordered people’s murder; profitted from extortion etc etc doesn’t matter because…..we all already knew about it?? Astonishing.

  • Robin Keogh

    really James I wonder sometime do u actually read what is written or do u just inveny what u want to see. I am asking the question why SF nad Adams were brought into the political process of they are apparently not fit for government. Why couldnt the GFA or St Andrews not have contained an exclusion on Adams at least as part of the overall agreement. In any event, what in your above list of transgressions has been proven in a court of law?

  • Steve Larson

    Micheal Martin knows that he is in serious trouble in his own party. Most of who believe that he hasn’t the bottle for the battle and tell him openly that.

    This is less about fighting Sinn Féin than Martin showing his own side that he actually has a pair.

    Don’t think that it will make much difference to either side in polls. It’s an approach that has been going on for decades, who will be influenced at this stage.