Gerry Adams: Guidelines or Rules? What rules?

As the Gardaí confirm that a file is being prepared for the Director of Public Prosecutions relating to the alleged sexual assault of Paudie McGahon and another male in the 1990s, further questions are being asked of Sinn Fein’s handling of the issue.

Gerry Adams, and his party, accept that both Maíria Cahill and Paudie McGahon were raped. Both allege they were assaulted by senior figures in the republican movement.

As Miriam Lord in today’s Irish Times reports:

Broadcaster Pat Kenny asked Gerry Adams if he knows the name of the alleged rapist and he said he did.

“A prominent republican activist, is this a fair description of him?”

And Adams replied: “Let me say if he is, he didn’t do any of this, if its true, in the name of the republican cause or in my name.”

If he is? One would expect a man of Gerry’s top-level experience to recognise a senior activist.

……………….

And back in Leinster House,the Taoiseach insisted that questions remained unanswered.

“I listened this morning to the interview given by the president of Sinn Féin, Deputy Adams and found it quite incredible. If this happened to any other leader of any other party down here . . .”

He paused.

Labour’s Robert Dowds filled in the missing words: “He’d would be gone. She’d be gone.”

Perhaps more interesting is the question of whether Adams and others within Sinn Féin have breached party policy on reporting child abuse.

Back in November Sinn Féin’s National Child Protection Officer Joe Reilly outlined the party’s guidelines on reporting child abuse.

Cllr. Reilly stated that in 2003 the party instigated a policy whereby members who were aware of instances of child abuse should report them to the party chair. The policy “evolved” in 2006 when any such reports should be submitted for use in a court of law.

So, the following questions:

  1. If, as stated on RTE, Gerry Adams was not made aware of Paudie McGahon’s allegations until 2009 why did he not then follow party guidelines [set up in 2006] and report them to Joe Reilly?
  2. Why were the allegations not then reported to the authorities as per party guidelines?
  3. What disciplinary action can be taken against the party president as a result?

You can watch the entire Spotlight documentary on Paudie McGahon here:

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  • John Peddubriwny

    As this story unfolds it gets to look more the Clerical Abuse Scandal everyday.

    From what I have heard, the most frightening aspect is the “mixed messages” that are being sent out by SF. Though they purportedly adopted an in house policy to inform the Police about sexual assaults, they never did. Adams is now telling victims if they have any information, they should put it before the police. However, can he be taken seriously? In the past, complaining to the police about Republicans could lead to a death sentence. And here we have SF announcing that they had a policy in place for years to report all such cases this but have never actually reported even the cases they were aware of.

    There is something about this that suggests a total lack of good faith by Adams. I suspect that there are plenty of people who would like to go to the police, but the failure by Adams and co, to report what they know is indicative to many of the victims that nothing has changed, and reporting to the police will still lead to reprisals.

    During the meantime, it is shameful to see SF members who are more worried about the image of SF, than they are about the victims.

  • barnshee

    “total lack of good faith”

    How naive can you get– this is an organisation which approved (approves?) the murder of hundreds of innocent men women and children. They and their voting base will not be perturbed by allegations of sexual misconduct/crimes however well founded

  • Mister_Joe

    What’s the difference between the Catholic Church moving alleged sex offenders to a different parish to avoid awkward questions and do a cover up and a political party which does the same?
    Anyone?

  • John Peddubriwny

    I don’t think I was being naive. I was talking about the future rather than the past.

    Nevertheless, if their electorate does not concern themselves with the way that SF are playing this hand, then the phrase “We get the government we deserve” seems apt. I take it from your comment that you think the leopard hasn’t changed it’s spots, and that would seen=m a fair summary.

    It would appear that the only real policy change between SF and the Provis is that SF are SAYING that it’s OK to contact the police. Lip service only.

  • John Peddubriwny

    Hence the opening line of my following post. And the similarities do not stop there. As well as the stonewalling, many of the people who dare to raise the issue are being accused of having hidden agendas.

  • Tacapall

    Indeed how dare anyone have an opinion that does not comply with the promoted narrative, like Martin Morris was a senior figure in the republican movement, ffs give us a break. Is it so strange or completely impossible that Gerry Adams might not know the animal that raped Paudie when he says the animal did not rape Paudie for the cause of Republicanism, even though I hate to agree with anything the man says, he nevertheless is correct.

  • John Peddubriwny

    But isn’t that a smokescreen? I don’t see anyone claiming that this was done in the name of Republicanism, but I can see why people might think that the subsequent cover up was done in that name.

    Again: Look at the Clerical Abuse Scandal. Nobody is saying that this was done in the name of the RC church, but the cover-up was done in the name of the church. And in exactly the same way, we have another serious sex offender allowed to roam free because somebody appears to believe tat the image of a powerful body is more important than the truth or public safety.

  • Tacapall

    John he wasn’t placed into the hands of the proper authorities like all the other abusers, like Morris, for no other reason other than they could and would have been used as pawns by those same authorities to convict or possibly lead to the killing of other republicans. Is that so hard to believe when almost daily we are hearing cases of the RUC colluding with individuals in the murders of innocent civilians there’s a piece today in the Irish news where Allison Morris highlights the case of a loyalist supergrass who claims that some of his charges should be dropped because he acted on the orders of the state ie his Special Branch handlers or just a few days ago when the PSNI admitted collusion occurred with a different state agent within the same gang as the agent I’ve mentioned above but that the police had no duty of care for the victims of those state agents. have a good look into the actions of the politicians who ultimately controlled the RUC and the PSNI today who are themselves covering up the rape and murder of children by their own politicians in Westminster we even had Theresa May ignoring the calls by victims and local politicians to include Kincora into the child sexual abuse inquiry. it seems theres lots of people trying to cover up their pasts the public are however subjected to selective highlighting with a dash of hypocrisy.

  • John Peddubriwny

    Your post has reminded me, that whenever a gov does what is expedient, rather than what is right, it will inevitably come back to bite them in the nether regions.

    I am not a native to this country though I can proudly boast an Irish “Mammy”, so your explanation fills in some great big holes in my education. Thanks.

  • David Crookes

    Absolute zero, Joe.

  • David Crookes

    John, a rather pompous formula is often used at graduation ceremonies: “in the name and by the authority of the university”.
    The cover-ups in SF and the RCC were carried out in the name and by the authority of SF and the RCC.

  • chrisjones2

    Didn’t he say that he also didn’t know where Liam Adams was or that he was Treasurer of his lcoal Cumman in West Balfast for 5 or 6 years. Perhaps he’s just forgetful

  • chrisjones2

    So because they do it its ok for SF to do it?

  • Tacapall

    The law applies to everyone or no-one and if your going to collectively label a party for the actions of the minority then apply that same logic across the board, you get the idea now Chris ?

  • David Crookes

    Tacapall, some files relating to Rudolf Hess and his time in Britain may not be opened until 2017, but I want to be there when they are.
    I suspect that files relating to the great INSTITUTIONAL scandal which you mention will be not be opened during my own lifetime. That suspicion leads me to ask a question.
    Does the RoI have a serious intelligence service?
    If the answer to that question is YES, what information does the RoI’s intelligence service have about the great scandal which you mention?
    If the answer to that last question is A LOT, why has this information failed to find its way into the public domain?
    Has it been suppressed for the sake of friendly relations with London, or has it been employed as a bargaining chip in secret negotiations?
    Finally, is there any significance in the fact that the present big push against SF is coming mainly from Dublin, and from the blogosphere? Is the DUP happy to go on working with an unsmashed SF?

  • Robin Keogh

    John, ever since the bedding down of the good friday agreement especially the deals in relation to policing and justice in general Sinn Fein hava always called for individuals who have a gripe of any sort to come forward to the relevent authorities. Up until that point republicans north and south did not trust the police in either jurisdiction for the reasons outlined by Tac above. When Adams calls for people to come forward he is being sincere, this is helpd out by the fact that he has spoken to the gaurds himself in relation to these issues however, we dont know exactly what he told them because obviously the police are keeping it to themselves. Shinners are not more worried about the image of the party however what all of us should be worried about is when an inceident like Mairia Cahill and Paudies attacked are deliberately used as a tool to try and adversely affect the rise of a politcal organisation whose ideology is at odds with the ruling classes. I am not suggesting there is no case to answer on the part of the Mairias and Paudies trangressors but the black propaganda nature of both presentations especially the deliberate exclusion of important facts in the cases, suggest to me and many others that there is far more at play here than merely the search for truth and justice.

  • Robin Keogh

    ***YAWN ***

  • Robin Keogh

    John Dont be drawn in by Barnshee and his incessant bitterness, in his eyes The North was a beautiful meadow with pink balloons and puppies all over the place until all of a sudden thousands of Irish men and women suddenly woke up one morning all on the same day and for no apparent reason just decided to blow the place up for the craic. As for getting the governemnt u deserve, i agree. We got the governments we deserved for decades when women and children were murdered in laundrys and state institutions while the politicians turned a blind eye. We also got the governemnt we deserved when we had some money and the politicians blew the lot partying with their buddies in the banking business and finance world. I could go on…. SF has grown exponentially over the last few years attracting thousands of young well educated intelligent individuals with no connection to the murky past. We need a change from the stale old conservative politics of the past…and thats what scares the media and politcal elite… they have been in each others pockets for years with corruption and dirty deals par for the course…they are worried their privilaged era is coming to an end…they should be…it is.

  • John Peddubriwny

    I refuse to accept that explanation. If Adams is sincere about these people going to the police, why aren’t SF following there own guidelines with regard to reporting abuse? I am more inclined to believe the poster who suggests that SF and the PIRA would be very anxious about these people being “turned”, especially if they are facing a long sentence as non-political prisoners for nonceing.

  • Ben De Hellenbacque

    Which truth and justice? Sinn Fein’s or that which is generally accepted in western democracies?

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Tac
    Sorry, you’ve lost me.

    How would something that happened in the Republic have made its way to the hit-list of loyalist murderers via the Gardaí?

    You mentioned the RUC, PSNI, Westminster, Theresa May, Special Branch and Kincora. Where does the Gardaí fit into this?

  • Robin Keogh

    Pad that question out a bit with some context and analysis based on your own opinion and i will engage with ya

  • Robin Keogh

    I am not so sure that SF dont follow their own guidelines. There are hundred of SF reps all over the country dealing with all sorts of issues. But guidelines cant always be applied particularly if the victim requests secrecy or anonymity, guidelines and regulations can only go so far

  • John Peddubriwny

    FWIW, I wasn’t paying a lot of attention to him.

    I seem to have walked into a “love or hate SF” debate. I was less concerned about the politics than I was about the victims in this case. Personally, I think that there should be a united Ireland, and that SF/PIRA have done the most to achieve that in my view, but I think that these events show why the current leadership is not fit to govern.

    What SF needs right now, is someone like Leo Varadkar who when FG’s Justice Minister was lurching from crisis to crisis, had to courage to go against the party line and openly criticise him. This is really the time for someone to take responsibility and make sure that the next time we hear of these cases, it is not because SF have tried to cover-up these despicable acts.

  • John Peddubriwny

    You are coming across as an apologist for some very despicable failings.

    “Cllr. Reilly stated that in 2003 the party instigated a policy whereby members who were aware of instances of child abuse should report them to the party chair. The policy “evolved” in 2006 when any such reports should be submitted for use in a court of law”. We know that Adams knew about this case, and yet it was never reported. I am unaware that they have EVER reported any such case.

    If we are to believe Mz Cahill, there may be up to 40 similar cases where the IRA held Kangaroo Courts. Clearly the SF hierarchy will be aware of most of these. Can you tell me one case where they have turned any of these people into the authorities?

  • james

    I think that this and other crimes like it were covered up to avoid a PR blow to Republicanism, so that part of it was done for the ’cause’.

  • james

    Now…that is rather grim. And shows the mighty respect Adams has for even the most sycophantic supporters.

  • james

    I’m sure they wouldn’t be long demanding political prisoner status, ‘nonce’ or not. A rapist on hunger strike might prove a harder sell than, evidently, murders were.

  • aber1991

    I do not think there is anything “hidden” about their agendas. Some people have tried to use the sex abuse scandals to steal schools from Catholics. Others are trying to use sex abuse incidents to beat off the electoral challenge of Sinn Fein.

  • Robin Keogh

    I cant because i would have no way of knowing. Only the gaurds can answer that but i do know that caomhin o chaolain stated that he had reported something of that nature to the gaurds in his constituency about four years ago. Also, SF guidelines are not much if the victim does not want to be exposed or as in the case of both mairia and paudie they both told SF that they did not want the police involved. However where a minor is concerned and a SF rep becomes aware that they might be in difficulty and cannot speak up for themselves, i have no reason to believe that their procedures are not followed robustly. Remember both mairia and paudie were both members of very staunch republican families, the circumstances around which they or their families might choose to deal with issues of abuse etc. May well have fallen outside the civic norm. I am not attempting to justify it i am simply accepting it as reality. Simply put i cannot imagine any circumstances where any type of crime committed by republicans upon republicans would have been passed to the legitimate police services of tge state, such was the clandestine and secretive nature of the republican community. Again i am not trying to defend it or apologize for anybody, i am just trying to judge the events in the context of tgeir specific situations. Its a nasty business for sure and i would love to believe that Paudie will get his justice but with the level of self interested media interference at foot, i fear he may not.

  • Sp12

    It’s becoming surreal, Paudie was on the radio this morning criticising SF’s tax policies.

  • Tacapall

    Chris your not telling me anything I dont already know.

  • NMS

    The New Yorker is also covering some of the other pieces of Gerry’s backstory he would rather forget in its current edition.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/03/16/where-the-bodies-are-buried

  • chrisjones2

    sorry but I was speaking to the world at large not just you

  • chrisjones2

    for no other reason other than they could and would have been used as pawns by those same authorities

    Specific evidence or pure speculation and justificatioN?

    Like others you keep trying to link this back to the need to prevent penetration of the IRA and the PSNI / RUC recruitment of touts but all these crimes happened in Ireland. The Irish Republic

  • SeaanUiNeill

    John, these debates have turned into a see-saw of for or against SF from along time back.

    As you so rightly say there are real people and their terrible experiences being ignored or verbally abused in this game of scoring points. I wish that those engaging in the debate kept this one all important fact in front ofthem in everything they post.

  • chrisjones2

    So noone should obey any laws then?

  • chrisjones2

    at least the government only blew up the money …they didn’t blow up or should thousands of their fellow citizens or murder them and buy them in bogs or rape them and cover up the rapes. They also didn’t steal millions in revenue that might have supported hospitals and social welfare

  • Glenn Clare

    Mairia Cahill says there are some 60 victims of sinn fein / ira child abuse thinking of going Public. How many so called sinn fein / ira icons / heroes are being venerated or have children’s play parks named after them Who were themselves child abusers. Not to many children laughing now Bobby, more crying at the inequality and injustice at that hands of sinn fein / ira.

  • chrisjones2

    “Sinn Fein hava always called for individuals who have a gripe of any sort to come forward to the relevant authorities”

    So have all the SF members and representatives who were in the pub toilet while McCartney was murdered recovered their memories?

    “When Adams calls for people to come forward he is being sincere”

    Evidence?

    “he has spoken to the gaurds himself in relation to these issues”

    WHen? where? What evidence did he give. THis is fantasy stuff

    “used as a tool to try and adversely affect the rise of a politcal organisation whose ideology is at odds with the ruling classes”

    Why shouldn’t it be when it exposes the rotten heart of that movement? THe Irish people have a right to know the truth on this and other issues

    “the black propaganda nature of both presentations”

    There you go again attacking the victims. You really need to reflect on how your posts expose the true nature of your party and its attitude to these issues – like a cabal of Catholic Bishops in the 1980s desperate because they have been exposed

  • chrisjones2

    Robin

    I am sorry but your posts really remind me of this

    THE PRIANAH BROTHERS
    Monty Python

    Another man who had his head nailed to the floor was Stig O’ Tracy.

    Rogers: I’ve been told Dinsdale Piranha nailed your head to the floor.
    Stig: No. Never. He was a smashing bloke. He used to buy his mother flowers and that. He was like a brother to me.
    Rogers: But the police have film of Dinsdale actually nailing your head to the floor.
    Stig: (pause) Oh yeah, he did that.
    Rogers: Why?
    Stig: Well he had to, didn’t he? I mean there was nothing else he could do,
    be fair. I had transgressed the unwritten law.
    Rogers: What had you done?
    Stig: Er… well he didn’t tell me that, but he gave me his word that it was the case, and that’s good enough for me with old Dinsy. I mean, he didn’t *want* to nail my head to the floor. I had to insist. He wanted to let me off.

  • John Peddubriwny

    Thanks for that. It seems so shameful that both sides will play politics over this matter.

    Is it any wonder when you see the sort of people that Politics attracts, that Politicians are so despised?

  • John Peddubriwny

    So are you suggesting regardless of the jurisdiction, that if a senior SF figure came before the police on a nonceing charge he or the police might not be inclined to consider a “deal”?

  • John Peddubriwny

    And some people (quite a few in fact) “use” the sex abuse scandal because they were abused.

    As I look at these posts, I am reminded of the recent BBC doc, “Meet the Ukippers”. You can see it on Youtube if you missed it. If anybody had any doubt about the inherent stupidity of racists, that vid will remove those doubts. But the parallel is that the subsequent message boards are inhabited by Ukippers claiming that the story is all about anti-media bias while completely ignoring the conduct of the UKIP members portrayed. The question I keep putting to these people is even if there is media bias, does that excuse the racism of these people.

    I think the time has come to put a similar question here: Even if this is the result of political skulduggery, how does this give the IRA the right to hold such brutally outrageous Kangaroo Courts where the options being put to victims (if they are believed) is for the perpetrator to be “executed” (thus making the victim an accomplice to an even worse crime) or exile?

    Until someone can explain that, I think that suggestions that this might be a political smear campaign are irrelevant

  • John Peddubriwny

    There is something about Adams asking the public to help the police to arrest IRA men, that would not seem out of place if it were John Gotti asking the public to help the NYPD arrest his gang. If the McCartney murder was IRA, it seems inconceivable that Adams or people close to Adams did not have info that could point the police in the right direction.

    It’s one thing for Adams to urge people to hep the police, but until such times as some senior SF people actually do this, it is difficult to believe that what Adams is doing is anything more than saying “the right things” for the media.

  • John Peddubriwny

    I think she actually claims that there are about 40 such victims, but she hypothesises, that many of the attackers will have carried out more than one attack.

    I am not looking to “nitpick” your post, but rather draw attention to the fact that these “exiles” who are more than likely to strike again are currently at large and it is far from unlikely they will not strike again.

  • Tacapall

    “Sorry you’ve lost me” – That’s not surprising your a unionist.

  • Tacapall

    What do you think ?

  • Gopher

    The problem the wider population have, the ones that are not enthusiasts at least is they would be conscious given the widespread coverage is that abusers like alcoholics, gamblers, drug Addicts not only go to great and premeditated lengths to cover their various addiction by definition its never one drink, one bet or one injection. People, ordinary people, even uneducatcated ordinary people have that instinctive knowledge that abusers tend to flock sharing images, sharing victims possibly sharing guilt and helping each other avoid exposure. That was the principle factor in the calculations in institutional abuse which was overlooked when cover up was attempted. They not only caused an exponential increase they stretched credulity with the average man in the streets that anyone could be so bloody stupid. Creating the “culture” of cover up creates the petri dish for the abuse to breed. Internal investigations from within orginization close knit orginizations is ludicrous no one would trust anyone in the BBC to investigate Jimmy Saville why? Because his very investigator could be an abuser. Imagine if someone had been abused and went to Liam Adams after all he is Gerrys brother therefore someone with impecable Republic credentials. SF are on their own with this one the jokes have already started.

  • Tacapall

    Indeed David some files will never be opened but even worse is there’s people who disbelieve that there is any such thing as a D notice. I would agree Dublin has certain files especially in relation to the Dublin Monaghan bombings that could put the British government in the dock and these have been used to further a greater say in the northern six counties for the 26 county government. Yes there is a big push on to demonise Sinn Fein at present by elements both of the 26 county government and the British establishment, one for reasons of political survival and the other as a method of distraction to divert attention from their own covering up of similar child abuse and rape. The Dup have no other choice other than accept the wishes of the electorate, you can’t preach to Irish people how wonderful British democracy is by encouraging them to vote and partake but have a condition attached that you must only vote for parties pre-approved by them.

  • Glenn Clare
  • barnshee

    “John Dont be drawn in by Barnshee”

    The truth hurts

    “SF has grown exponentially over the last few years attracting thousands of young well educated intelligent individuals with no connection to the murky past”

    “This is an organisation which approved (approves?) the murder of hundreds of innocent men women and children.
    (The attack on a Rembrance day ceremony, the murder of workmen for er being Protestant (Kingsmill Tebane) )

    Repeats “They and their voting base will not be perturbed by allegations of sexual misconduct/crimes however well founded”

    This is the organisation that cried foul when their members died as they tried to commit murder(Loughgall) This is the organisation that brought riots onto the streets and then complained when people got injured. This is the organisation which whined when their polar opposites -the loyalist murder gangs- answered in kind.

    Thank you for confirming that SF with its ” thousands of young well educated intelligent individuals” regard (inter alia) Enniskillen Tebane and Kingsmill as legitimate

    “They and their voting base will not be perturbed by allegations of sexual misconduct/crimes however well founded”

    Says all I need to know about SF and its ” thousands of young well educated intelligent individuals”

  • Tacapall

    Read the local papers it’s not that hard to find if you open your eyes how do you think peple ended up becoming state agents for the RUC and the notion that all sex abuse crimes concerning people connected to the IRA happened in the 26 counties is a fabrication of your own mind. Maria Cahills abuse happened in the 6 county British controlled part of Ireland like the majority of the many cases not even yet made public and in Paudie’s case there were others, not one other, others and you simply don’t know what side of the border that abuse occurred. I’m sure Mairia, would, like Laim Adams daughter, and indeed many other victims, agree the RUC would have had no interest in them other than use them and their abusers as spricks to catch or destroy other republican whales.

  • John Peddubriwny

    Thanks for that. I misinterpreted an interview I heard on Talk/FM radio a few days ago. I now think she meant “40 perpetrators responsible for 60 victims”.

  • Spike

    I despair. this is why people like Mairia Cahill, Louise O’Keefe, Paudie McGahon, the Kincora Victims etc etc need to have a victim centred All-Ireland institution to help them with the trauma of their experiences. Policiticians have an innate ability to expolit people’s horrible experiences for their own gain and then cast them off when they are no longer expedient. The media should be used to find these perpertrators, not be used as mouthpieces for the political parties. By getting the victims politcially involved some people then revert back to political allegiences, rather than genuinely sympathising, supporting and getting justice for these victims who have already went through so much trauma.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Well, would you be so kind as to explain where the Gardaí fit into it please? It’s obvious to you but completely over my head.

    “John he wasn’t placed into the hands of the proper authorities like all the other abusers, like Morris, for no other reason other than they could and would have been used as pawns by those same authorities to convict or possibly lead to the killing of other republicans


    If the proper authorities in this case are the Gardaí then how does one become a pawn for the British government to kill republicans?

    It’s a fair enough question.

  • Sp12

    Louise needs a spotlight programme, maybe that way she can get a hug/photo-op from Enda the day after it airs rather than waiting for months for a meeting with anyone in the government.

  • Tacapall

    Yes AG in this case the proper authorities would be the Garda but the majority of abuse cases in the process of being made public took place in the 6 counties, but the point still stands at that period in time, this thread kinda touched on it –

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/05/16/theyve-all-sold-out-on-the-irish-people/

    Do you think the Garda would not have used the abuser as a pawn to implicate other republicans for other crimes ? The Chief of staff of the IRA was a Garda state agent, so was the head of the IRA’s internal security unit Freddie Scapattachi’s boss, what do you think they used their services for and would you consider it impossible that the information gained would be shared with their counterparts in the RUC ?

  • barnshee

    Retreat throw blanket over head-ignore facts- settle down with rest of ” thousands of young well educated intelligent individuals”

  • Tacapall

    Indeed Seaan scoring political points and distraction is what this game of drip feeding is really all about, victims will be used as pawns in the name of politics but when those who are using them get what they want, the victims will once again be tossed back into the wilderness to be forgotten as embarrassing reminders of how dirty the game of politics and how ruthless some politicians really are.

  • chrisjones2

    Why hasn’t she had one in Ireland? Now there is a question

  • SeaanUiNeill

    I know that only too well, Tacapall, and the recognition of experiences of the survivors of these foul situations must always come before anything else for myself. Certainly before any single person, no matter how important they may seem to be, and before any private interest or political party.

    “Fiat justitia rust caelum”, “let Justice be enacted even though such an action should bring the sky down upon us.”

  • Sp12

    Ending your first sentence with a question mark makes the second sentence redundant.
    So it does.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    That second paragraph is quite a valid point Tac, one certainly couldn’t rule it out.

  • Niall Noígíallach

    “John, these debates have turned into a see-saw of for or against SF from along time back.”

    This.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Hi Niall, indeed “This”. The last time I came on this sterile point scoring on this theme on another Slugger thread, I quoted Yeats’ comment at the “Plough and the Stars” riot: “You have disgraced yourself again.” Both sides.

    I wish that some of those who are so glib in using these terrible experiences for point scoring in either direction would actually meet some of those whose lives have been overshadowed by the brutal selfishness of the abusers, and those who shield them.

  • Robin Keogh

    ***YAWN***

  • Robin Keogh

    ***YAWN*** again

  • Zeno

    ” I think that there should be a united Ireland, and that SF/PIRA have done the most to achieve that in my view, ”

    That really is hilarious. What have they done apart from turn an entire community against there ever being a United Ireland.?

  • Zeno

    The Sinn Fein apologists on this thread are complaining that this is being used to damage SF politically. It’s telling that they are more concerned about the party than the men women and children who were raped and abused.
    Where is the line in the sand for you people? What would SF have to do to lose your unquestioning and obedient support?

  • Zeno

    if you were in the Spice Girls, you’d be Sleepy Spice.

  • Zeno

    “SF has grown exponentially over the last few years attracting thousands of young well educated intelligent individuals”

    No one with the capability to think for themselves would join SF. It’s a party for the sheep and the easily led. It’s a party for those that don’t want to ask questions. It’s a party where their activists duck out of debate and leave it to the deluded internet drones to spread the message.

  • chrisjones2

    No it doesn’t. Theres the question of why hasn’t she had one in Ireland. Then there is the question of why hasn’t there been one. Clear now?

  • chrisjones2

    “genuinely sympathizing, supporting and getting justice for these victims who have already went through so much trauma”

    but what about when a party or parties is out there crying crocodile tears, lying and still trying to cover up these and other cases? What about when it has systematically done this for years and thereby helped free rapists to rape again and again?

    You cannot divorce that from the issue just as you cant divorce the Bishops from covering up for pedophile prioests

  • Mirrorballman

    They did it with murder why not rape?

  • Sp12

    Well, Louise has been the topic of conversation multiple times on TV3’s Vincnt Browne show, but she won’t be getting any photo ops with Enda as she can’t be used for politicking.
    I see Mairia is to be questioned over the harassment of one of the McCartney sisters. The wheels are coming of this wagon.

  • Sp12

    Something has become very clear to me yes 🙂

  • babyface finlayson

    I would say although the second sentence is grammatically not necessary,it is there for added emphasis, and is therefore legitimate.
    So it is.

  • Spike

    Well then let the police issue statements rather than this electioneering which only panders to apologists,radicals, haters and, last but not least, politicians from most parties who see it as an opportunity rather than a chance to do some good.