Gerry Adams applies to become paid officer of the Crown…

Or, as the iol report notes

A party spokesman said the process had now started and confirmed Mr Adams had written to Westminster to formally resign.

Here’s Mick’s post in November on the republican’s dilemma.

Although it’s worth noting from the House of Commons factsheet [pdf file] that he only has to apply to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for that “office of profit under the Crown”…

From the factsheet [pdf file]

Current procedure

A Member wishing to resign applies to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for one of the offices, which he or she retains until the Chancellor appoints another applicant or until the holder applies for release from it. (Every new warrant issued revokes the previous holder). It is usual to grant the offices alternately; as this enables two Members to retire at precisely the same time. Indeed, on 17 December 1985, fifteen Ulster Unionist MPs resigned on the same day.

Upon receipt of a Member’s application for the Chiltern Hundreds, a warrant of appointment is signed (in the presence of a witness) by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Since 1850, these have been registered and retained in the Treasury. On the day the warrant is signed a letter is sent to the Member, omitting the letters MP after his name, to inform him that he has been appointed to the office. Letters of notification are also sent at the same time to the offices of the Speaker and the Government and opposition whips. As soon as practical, the appointment is noted in the London Gazette. It is also the practice for the Treasury to issue a brief press notice. The disqualification of a Member because of his new office is recorded in Votes and Proceedings although there are no proceedings in the house and it is not recorded in the Official Report.

If a Stewardship is granted during a recess, the new writ for a by-election cannot be issued until the House meets again. If it is granted during the session, the party’s whip is free to move for a new writ immediately after the Chancellor of the Exchequer has signed the warrant of appointment (see also Factsheet M7 Parliamentary Elections).

Adds  Here’s the relevant legislation – House of Commons Disqualification Act 1975 as amended and in force today within the United Kingdom.

And  It looks like the Stewardship due up next is the Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead.

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  • Fionn

    what utter tosh, this blackstaff, sitting on woolsacks, government is a joke, MPs should go to work in a suit and act like they are in an office and not a panto,

  • joeCanuck

    Oh the shame, the horror. Next step – seats will be taken.

  • Pete Baker

    Don’t like the rules? Don’t apply for the job…

  • pippakin

    He wants to, and has the right to be in the Dail. To that he has to do this. Not because of the British but because of the Irish. So suck it up, Ireland demands its representatives serve no other not even in name only.

  • This is hardly a big deal. I might have been amusing for about 2 minutes but really, it is right at the bottom end of the scale of significant political events.

  • Paid officer? Didn’t the office become unpaid in the 17th century?

  • Scáth Shéamais

    So what’s the official procedure on by-elections? Will they just wait three and a half months and hold it alongside the local, Assembly and AV votes?

  • Pete Baker

    Nevin

    The Stewardships were retained as nominal paid offices for the purposes of disqualification under the House of Commons Disqualification Act 1975.

    And it looks like the Stewardship due up next is the Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead.

  • Fionn

    bit sad that in the Dail resigning TDs aren’t made to hop backwards across St Stephens Green or maybe do handstands across the front of of Leinster House *sigh* the Irish have no sense of tradition

    official procedure on by-elections!!! cop yerself on, nothing can happen until the MP runs up and down naked in front of Buckie Palace with a raw chicken on his/her head, its procedure and tradition dear boy (meanwhile I see the ex-primeminister has been recalled to tell more on why it was necessary to invade Iraq)

  • ORWELLSPEN

    Big deal. Sure Marty, Michelle,Conor and Katriona have been paid officers of the crown for some years now

  • Fionn

    Although a more intelligent post would be when is an MP not an MP, Adams did not get a salary because he apparently didn’t do his job as an MP so what exactly is he resigning from!!

  • Fionn

    ORWELLSPEN, no they’ve not, their offices have drawn expenses, but same as Adams they’ve not had a salary, if someone doesn’t pay you a salary how can you resign from the job?

  • Fionn

    Mick pointed out to me today Slugger is not protected from legal action, the link only says he’s resigned, Pete, can you post proof of his application

    “Gerry Adams applies to become paid officer of the Crown…”

  • Fionn

    Just to give you a clue Pete, over on P.ie its being said that Adams HASN’T applied for “to become paid officer of the Crown…” so I await your source on this

  • “nominal paid offices”

    Just as I thought – unpaid. Not even the Queen’s shilling 🙂

  • joeCanuck

    Don’t be silly, Fionn. Saying that he has applied could be wrong but that doesn’t constitute libel. To libel someone you somehow have to damage their good reputation. If a person doesn’t have a good reputation, it’s hard to libel them.Didn’t a “good” republican discover that to his cost a few years back.

  • pippakin

    Ffion

    Do stop with the threats it does not help SF

    Pete Baker

    Not so much whataboutery as completely differentery. I saw this and thought of you. http://huff.to/2suns Huffington Post.

  • Mick Fealty

    Fionn,

    Is this what you mean from Dave?

    “A leadership source told me that Gerry handed in his resignation letter a short while ago. He didn’t apply for any paid position with the Crown. Just told the speaker he was resigning.”

    Let’s see how that works out.

    But the House procedures are clear enough. There does not seem to be any other route out of the Commons other than becoming “Crown Steward and Bailiff of the three Chiltern Hundreds of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham” or “Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead”.

    To the rest of us it is a plain old resignation and a mere form of words. Prima Facae, there seems to be no obstacle to Gerry being given the job, in order to get him out of there. So long as he doesn’t refuse the title.

  • Mick Fealty

    Northstead it is. Last incumbent, Michael Martin. Who did not pass go and did not collect £200.

    PS, Iris is the current holder of the Chiltern Hundreds.

  • Rory Carr

    As Mick asserts, ‘There [may] not seem to be any other route out of the Commons other than becoming “Crown Steward and Bailiff of the three Chiltern Hundreds of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham” or “Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead” ‘, but that would surely only apply to one who has already entered into the House of Commons (by taking their seat) and that is assuredly not the case with respect to Gerry Adams.

    Adams’s notice of resignation is to his electorate and the Brit Ministry of Funny Walks – or whatever – will have to sort out all the silly little bits for themselves.

  • cynic49

    If Gerry wants to play with the “Brits” then he has to play by their rules. Can’t have it both ways. I’m not sure that he will be such a great loss to Westminster. The good folk of Northstead will be quaking in their boots. Gerry will probably be able to graze his sheep in their greenhouses under some ancient covenent.

  • Drumlins Rock

    If Geryy wrote that he wants to resign, then the chancellor just writes back stating I will treat this as an applcation blah bla bla… Gerry then writes back saying I wish also to resign from the position in Northstead etc. so technically he has the posiotion for a day or two tops, if he hand delivered it maybe only minutes, which is more or less what David Davies did btw, and the unionist members who resigned in ’85.

    More importantly, would it be possible to have a Bi-election on 5th of May, to save money of course.

  • Mick Fealty

    Thanks DR. That sounds about right.

  • fordprefect

    I agree with DR (re the money), but, just watch the money they ALL spend on the elections coming up with more or less all the same gubs being elected again. I don’t know why time is wasted here in the north having elections. I just hope and pray that people remember that next time they hear the same “polititians” on gurning about cuts etc. and so-called “ministers” who can’t be held to account for anything, not one of them has an atom of shame between them.

  • Mick Fealty

    Pip and Fionn,

    There is only one way to deal with aggressive man playing, and it is not to take lumps out of each other. Hit the ‘Flag as Offensive’ button, and let us deal with it.

    You both have good points to make but it’s getting drowned in the rabbit punching, so both of your last posts are gone.

  • ORWELLSPEN

    Fionn – SF ministers are or are they not drawing a minsterial salary? Or are they donating salary to SF coffers? Either way, many Queen’s shillngs are in SF pockets one way or another. Fionn, theres nothing to be ashamed on that front. Other unionists, de facto and de jure get paid too

  • Mike the First

    Rory Carr

    “Adams’s notice of resignation is to his electorate”

    That’s odd, I didn’t realise the Speaker was a resident of West Belfast…when can the other 60,000 voters expect a letter then?

  • Gerry has been paid as an MP and as an MLA with some of the income going to the party, allegedly? How much do he and the party stand to lose as a consequence of his two decisions? Is he entitled to a future/ongoing income from Westminster and Stormont?

    Will the £80,000 over budget piece of public art to be erected at Broadway roundabout aka the Balls on the Falls be named after the former honourable member for West Belfast?

  • Fionn

    ORWELLSPEN, SF ministers and MLAs in Stormont draw a salary, however, this is about a SF MP who isn’t paid a salary and whom unionists and tories don’t want to draw expenses, and yet they seem keen for him to go through a resignation process, I’d guess the tories will be more pragmatic and fudge the process to avoid making a scene, what does GA need to do in the process, does he need to agree to the ‘job’ if he doesn’t will there be a by-election regardless, is he still considered an MP, there’s far to many ifs and buts.

  • 241934 john brennan

    Belfast man Gerry Adams, also with addresses in Donegal and Louth, had a job in Wesminister, but never attended for work and has now resigned from that. He also had a job at Stormont, infrequently attended for work – and also resigned from that, to seek similar work in Dublin. As the actor in “The Boys from the Blackstuff” repeatedly said: “I could do that. Ge’s a job.

  • fordprefect

    Problem I have Fionn, is that SF mla’s mp’s etc. keep telling people that they draw an “industrial” wage, but, don’t tell anyone exactly how much that is. Do they get clothing allowances, travel expenses, phone bills paid etc., because if they do that is not an “industrial” wage. Any time I see any of their spokespersons on, they usually have another new suit, tie etc. on them.

  • fordprefect

    John Brennan

    It was “Yosser” Hughes and he said Gizza job, go on gizz it, go on gizz it!

  • Fionn

    fordprefect, I’m amazed you keep note of the wardrobes of SF spokespeople.

    Details on wages are here

    http://www.westbelfastsinnfein.com/news/13029

    don’t really understand your point regarding expenses, any work related expenses in any employment is generally paid for by the employer.

    But again this is far from the topic of the thread, even if the topic is made up

    241934, although he was a regular visitor to Downing St. and at least he openly sez he won’t attend Westminister unlike those who are elected on a platform of attending and just don’t bother.

    Active absentionist V Lazy absentionist

    Closer to the made up topic but still of the mark

  • fordprefect

    I read your link Fionn (thank you), but, there is no employer that would pay out even a fraction of that. Have you ever tried working for, say, a building firm in Belfast? What’s wrong with wearing the jumpers and jeans that Gerry and co. were so fond of wearing in the 70’s 80’s, 90’s and even up to the 00’s?

  • fordprefect

    Fionn
    Or do you mean that their employers are the british government?

  • fordprefect

    Fionn

    Come on answer me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • fordprefect

    Fionn

    Awwwwwwwwwwwwww, please don’t fall out with me. I have family members in SF and (as the old cliché goes) a lot of friends in SF. We argue and hotly debate topics, but, we can still go out for a few gargles and have a good laugh!

  • Mick Fealty

    John Brennan, you are just off a red card for repeatedly playing the man and straying from the point. Just stick to the ball and leave the man (in this case Gerry) alone.

  • tacapall

    A hotly debated topic especially in republican areas. I know the party line on this “Industrial Wage” is frequently questioned by many former comrades who wonder how this industrial wage can bring someone so many luxuries like big houses, holiday homes etc that many who get even more than that “industrial wage” another thing wondered do Sinn Fein have a pension scheme or do long standing MP’s MLA’s or Councillors entitled to pension, if so who does this go to.

  • tacapall

    that many who get even more than that “industrial wage” cant afford.

    kids doing my head in – its friday

  • Fionn

    fordprefect, don’t worry I haven’t gone away *ahem*

    I think you are confusing an industrial wage with an industrial job

    As to who their employers are, I’d lean more towards it been the people they represent, who by and large are the taxpayers who finance the running of the state.

    But we are still way off Pete’s makey-uppy topic.

    A better dicussion is what exactly is Adams resigning from, Pete’s thread concerns the ritual for resigning from “membership of the House of Commons” so I’d guess that Adams is doubly shocked to find out he’s applied for a job from the queen and that he was a member of the House of Commons afterall, did Ritchie take the oath on his behalf?

  • Cynic2

    Its very simple. if he doesn’t resign by the right procedure he remains an MP.

  • Cynic2

    By the way…why did he put the good folk of West Belfast to the bother of electing him 7 months ago and thereby waste perhaps £100k on a byelection.

    Aw sure its only public money

  • Rory Carr

    It’s even more simple than you think, Cynic 2. Adams has already resigned. Job done.

    If some bizarre procedure is required to satisfy Westminster tradition then it will be the Speaker, or Leader of the House, or Sergant-at-Arms, or whatever eminent Westminster box-wallah charged with such frippery, who will have to jump throught the necessary hoops to preserve their sense of how things ought to be.

    What will happen is simply that what is required to be done to effect resignation will simply be deemed to have been done.

    The good folk of West Belfast could of course always express any dismay they may feel over the cost of an additional election by choosing a representative at the by-election who is pledged to take their seat, but somehow I don’t think they will.

  • Fionn

    Good Grief are we about to see a campaign by unionists and tories insisting on Adams remaining an MP.

    Although as I’ve already asked Cynic, is Adams a member of the House of Commons, which according to Pete is the resignation process he is going through.

    I would understand it that being an MP is different from being a member of the House of Commons as individuals are elected MP when the Commons isn’t sitting and so can’t be members. I’m guessing to be a member of the House of Commons you must do the oathy thingy and take your seat, to be an MP you just need to get the most votes,

  • ORWELLSPEN

    I see from BBC NI website that Danny Morrison has mooted the possibility of one George Galloway to stand for West Belfast with SF support. No word from Mr G himself but it would be an interesting possibility if SF use the West Belfast seat as a means of annually electing whoever happens to be the biggest pain in the arse of the British establishment with SF support of course.

  • joeCanuck

    Weird and wondrous are the workings of Whitehall,
    AS Rory says, they’ll find some obscure way of saying “it’s done”.

  • Cynic2

    You bare of course right that its a matter for the House. Exactly my point.

    As for the cost – yes but I suggest that the Government knock the £100k off the NI block grant.

  • Cynic2

    I think the Galloway idea is first class. It would be a real boost for SF and the voters of West belfast

  • pippakin

    Galloway moving from the East End, where there was the inevitable tiff, to W Belfast? well at least he’s not a sheep and if SF are considering a ‘merger’ they would do well to remember that.

  • tacapall

    “Galloway moving from the East End, where there was the inevitable tiff, to W Belfast? well at least he’s not a sheep and if SF are considering a ‘merger’ they would do well to remember that”.

    Would Galloway take an industrial wage or stick to the abstentionist policy, do the young people or indeed the population of west belfast even know who he is. Does Danny Morrison think the people of west belfast are sheep and will jump whenever they’re asked to by people like him. I think I would rather have someone who is a puppet for the people of west belfast rather than someone who has their own agenda and who’s strings are pulled by those who wish to keep the people of west belfast in the bubble that they’ve been living in for the last 40 years.

  • tacapall, the electorate were given a choice. They mainly chose Gerry Adams SF ‘bubble’. I suspect the only puppet they’re likely to select in the near future is out of the same Punch and Judy show.

  • tacapall

    Nevin I agree with you to a point but things have changed a lot of dirty washing has been done in public. There comes a point when you cant fool all of the people all of the time and we’re not far off that point in west belfast.

  • pippakin

    tacapall

    Not sure what George Galloways opinion would be on having the industrial wage applied to him. He has always sounded staunch socialist, but perhaps like so many, he has not always lived up to the rhetoric.

    Personally I would like to see W Belfast show their contempt for the status quo but that is unlikely, they will almost certainly vote for the devil they know. The only clue seems to be in the turnout.

    As for Danny Morrison he appears to have a sense of humour. I just wonder sometimes if he’s laughing with the people of W B or taking the piss..

  • tacapall, is there any chance the proposed AV system (Australian version?) would make a difference to the outcome in WB?

    http://goo.gl/70nx

  • tacapall

    Pippakin I know many republicans who claim to be socialists but who hold 2 or 3 jobs and have a couple of businesses on the side – socialists my … its f… you im all right. There are loads of ex prisoners living in poverty with no jobs and no futures and plenty who have become alcoholics, they have families and friends who see that and see the opulent lifestyles of some of their comrades who live off the gravy train that follows Gerry and the boys. There is no help for them except from former comrades and friends who although not much better off than them remember the sacrifices they made, who now know they were puppets for people like Danny Morrison who – with an armilite in one hand and a ballot box in the other we will fight to the last drop of everybody elses blood. Yes Pippakin Danny is taking the Piss.

  • pippakin

    tacapall

    I know, especially about the ex activists. It is an unacknowledged and inexcusable problem I have commented on before. I think it needs new leadership in SF for that to begin to be solved.

  • fordprefect

    Tacapall
    I agree with you 100%.
    Pippa
    No chance of that happening, even if it did Gerry and Martin and co. would still be pulling the strings. Anyone who disagees with their stance on anything is branded either “against the peace process” “an alcoholic” or a “nutcase”. I’ve seen good people this last lot of years being demonised for having the affrontery to suggest that maybe not all of Gerry’s ideas were good ones.

  • pippakin

    fordperfect

    And yet time marches on. The old guard are in their sixties, new people must and will be found. Sinn Fein was there before Adams and McGuinness it will be there when they have gone.

  • fordprefect

    Pippa
    yes, only problem is, anyone coming up in SF now has to toe the party line and all the guff that goes with it, so, don’t expect any changes………….soon.

  • Fionn

    fordprefect, surely anyone in any party is expected to ‘toe the party line’ or why are they a member of the party.

    For a current example have a peek at this issue of Private Eye regarding the unfortunate newly elected tory MP.

    Historical example the DUP wouldn’t sit in Govt with SF and then they would, ergo members toed the party line.

  • fordprefect

    Welcome back Fionn! I’m glad to see you haven’t gone away *ahem* LOL. I’ve read the present issue of PE. (it’s only paper I buy). Fair enough with what you are saying, but, I know people who criticised an idea or said are you sure about that policy, and, there was no discussion, no meeting to try to resolve their complaint or criticism, they were tossed out of the “party”. to me that’s not a party that’s a dictatorship.

  • fordprefect

    Just a follow up on that Fionn, not only were they tossed out of SF, they were then demonised and had a whispering campaign against them (like I said in my earlier post).

  • fordprefect

    Fionn, have you gone away *ahem*? LOL.

  • Fionn

    fordprefect, if you know people that that has happened to then I can’t or won’t argue. Outside of that I think people left because SF has changes a great deal from being a protest party to a political one and policy today does not sit well with some, others, basically got a bit big for theor boots and smelled success with other parties. SF consult with their electorate more than any other party and every consultation and policy is based on two goals, aunited Ireland and a Republic. Differences of opinions can only be on how to reach the goals, has anyone who left advanced Ireland towards those two ideals?

    One thing I’ve realised about SF is that its all about pragmatism, personally I’m not keen on them in Stormont, or supporting the PSNI, but I can see the reasons why its done, SF like the IRA play a very very long game

  • tacapall

    Fionn, “others, basically got a bit big for theor boots and smelled success with other parties. SF consult with their electorate more than any other party and every consultation and policy is based on two goals, aunited Ireland and a Republic”.

    Tell me how many people left Sinn Fein and went to another party. Sinn Fein consult with their electorate – When has this ever happened.

  • fordprefect

    Fionn
    SF most certainly have not advanced any of the two ideals. To quote Gerry Adams on the signing of the 1985 so-called Anglo-Irish Agreement “they have copper fastened partition”, what do you think the GFA did? Once you agree to the consent principle, you are then a constitutional nationalist party, not republican.

  • 241934 john brennan

    “Glory be to God, but there it is, the dawn on the hills of Ireland!”

    But in the name of God! George Galloway as MP for West Belfast – proxy rising sun for Irish republicanism?

    But the really important questions are: ‘What are the aims and what are the ideals of the Ireland of today’?

    The Civil Rights Movement and SDLP founders had a dream. An agreed, reconciled, prosperous and socially just Ireland would become a light to the world.

    However, in the North, social justice was trumped by political violence, presently replaced by sullen endemic sectarianism. Instead of power-sharing, Sinn Fein and the DUP opt for separate equality, with each having a dead hand on the levers of power. So the engines of government wastefully idle in neutral standstill (standoff?). In their case, the politicians’ favourite phrase, ‘going forward’ really means ‘going nowhere’.

    In the South, social justice and principle were jettisoned in pursuit of the Celtic Tiger. Those who got a lion’s share of the spoils, and those who got nothing, must all now, either justly or unjustly, foot their share of the bill.

    So the question is repeated. What are the aims and ideals of the Ireland of today?

    The answer surely remains the unchanged SDLP analysis – a prosperous economy, a shared society and an Agreed Ireland.

    Margaret Ritchie’s words are not quite the same as John Hume’s (unlike Margaret, he wouldn’t say: “prioritizing the neediest going forward”)

    – but their aims, ideals and proposed means of achieving legitimate and socially just republican goals, remain constant, logical and achievable.

  • test

  • Pete, it seems you called it wrong. Gerry made history by just resigning, apparently.

  • We hear all these stories of MPs resigning and getting paid golden handshakes for their troubles. Do MP’s who do not recognise the Crown and have never sat in the Commons disqualify themselves from this perk/abomination/call it what you will?

  • Pete Baker

    Look again, Nevin.

  • I’ve just done so, Pete. You’ve listed several of the hoops that Gerry would have to jump through whereas Mick had drawn attention to the silliness.

  • Pete Baker

    “Gerry made history by just resigning, apparently.”

    Look again, Nevin.

  • Now why didn’t you hyperlink that the first time, Pete? Anyway, the new thread is the place to continue this silly story 🙂