Ruane poster takes inspiration from Obama…

  • joeCanuck

    No! She can’t.

  • NMCNSA

    made me chuckle!

  • Lionel Hutz

    I hope this election destroys her career

  • I am beginning to be very suspicious of all of the women in S/F. Three blind monkeys come to mind…

    As for the Education Minister, the missing words are: Lack of.

  • Michaelhenry

    do you know all the women in sinn fein pippakin, or are you just sexist.

  • Michaelhenry

    Not sexist dear, just suspicious of for example an education minister, who knowing of some outrageous allegations has, as far as I know, no questions, opinion or suggestions for action.

  • Michaelhenry

    allegations are like ass holes pippakin, seems like every body has one.

  • joeCanuck

    And you would appear to be an expert in that area, Michael.

  • Perhaps she could have looked to Paisley for inspiration!!

  • Michaelhenry

    I think you mean, though who can tell, that everyone has an opinion, and so they do, which leads inexorably to the question: where is Ms Ruanes.

    If everyone had an allegation both the RCC and S/F would be in even more trouble.

  • I suppose I should mention the poster: it is never good to be seen to be copying. It is indicates a lack of imagination and inspiration.

  • Garza

    [quote]I suppose I should mention the poster: it is never good to be seen to be copying. It is indicates a lack of imagination and inspiration. [/quote]

    Damn. And there was me going to make a Ruane “The Joker” poster. Heh

  • hodgie

    good point pippakin, how can a minister with responsibility for education, have no opinions, questions or suggestions on an issue her party leader was intricately tied into and which infringed upon the rights and well-being of children.

  • hodgie

    As far as I know Ms Ruane has said nothing about either of the two major scandals.

    I think people have the right to expect their members to be in the forefront of demands for child protection, especially those responsible for education.

  • old school

    Cool poster. Looks like a young Kenny Dalglish.
    Speaking of posters…Seems the Sinn Fein Ambassador to Unionism has offended Unionists in Derry with her pesky posters.
    http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/news/SF-posters-39insult-dead39.6229261.jp
    Some handyman placed her posters over the lights built into the War Memorial

  • wild turkey

    Michel Henri

    on this post, as in so many others, you deal in opinion and opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge.

    It requires no accountability, no understanding.

    Pippakin, Joe Cannuck and others deal in a higher form of knowledge. It is called is empathy.

    Empathy requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world. It requires profound, purpose-larger-than-the-self kind of understanding.

    A suggestion? Though you may have a very small and limited range, go spray your toxic ego and dysfunction somewhere else. Unless of course, you are acting in the higher good of a univeral church.

  • old school

    A tactful SF spokesman apparently said it was democracy and “get used to it”.

  • old school

    Over the lights built into the War Memorial? Well I think thats funny.

  • old school

    Funny in the “reaching out to Unionists using the medium of satire kind of way”?

  • old school

    Can you think of a better way?

  • Lionel Hutz

    wildturkey,

    Casual anto-catholocism is better is it? It really is thinking mans anti-semitism

  • old school

    Can I think of a better way?
    Yeah, stick them on one of the many lamposts.
    I’d be pissed off if the DUP placed posters on an IRA memorial.
    Memorials, graves, churches should at least be a haven, free from election posters. Unwritten rule.
    I think those who fought and died for Britain in WW1 and 2 were misguided fools, including my GrandUncle, whose names is on the Diamond, but leave this kind of “one upmanship” to the Loyalist bigots.

  • old school

    In many ways I agree with you. I have written about the right of people to grieve for their dead, both on Slugger and my own little blog. But I also think, given time and space, and provided we are not inflicting ourselves on a recent loss, we should be able to use the memorials to make our point.

    It should be obvious, but when it comes to the north it has to be said: Any demonstration, poster, whatever, should be completely peaceful and do no harm to the memorial, nor should it be left there for an undue length of time.

  • Seosamh913

    old school

    Just to be clear, you think that Britian’s involvement in WW2 was ignoble and something you’re ashamed to have had a relative associated with ?

  • old school

    Misguided fools? maybe in the first world war, but the second? Oh no. You should be proud of the Irishmen who fought the Nazis.

  • Old School, I suppose you think the Blueshirts who went to fight for Franco and Lord Haw Haw were not misguided fools.

    But to get back on topic, the DUP has also been following the Obama approach to posters:
    http://bavarian-orange.blogspot.com/search/label/propaganda
    Shameless plug, but there you go….

  • wild turkey

    “Casual anto-catholocism is better is it? It really is thinking mans anti-semitism”

    Lionel Hurts.

    is that your best shot? unlike your name, it does not hurt.

    for the record I am a practicing and somewhat devout catholic.

    i render unto to Caesar what is Caesar’s and unto the God of my faith what is righteous. The problem is this, the imperial roman church currently appears to take its cue from Caesar.

    the church has become toxically involved with its own power. In the final analysis it has failed, deliberately failed, to carry out the vision and faith upon which it is founded. It has betrayed its mission.

    comments like yours remind of mere right wing thugs who, during the sixties in america, promoted the ill-founded and violent belief that those who opposed an immoral war were somehow not patriotic americans.

    Goebells would be proud, eh Mr Hurtz?

  • B O O

    I like the posters. Not sure any of the parties will…

  • Pippakin:

    Damn….

  • Lionel Hutz

    Wild Turkey,

    On so many levels, what the fuck are you talking about?

  • Lionel Hutz

    By the way, my name doesn’t hurt. Lol.

    I’m no admirer of mr henry but perhaps you could explain your comment and why bring it in here.

  • Lionel Hutz

    Oh and how does my comment equate to American hawks and why would Goebels be proud. Seriously, on so many levels.,. Did you just some emotive words together in a washing machine and see what came out?

  • Reader

    Pippakin: But I also think, given time and space, and provided we are not inflicting ourselves on a recent loss, we should be able to use the memorials to make our point.
    Well then – there’s Free Derry Corner. At least a few DUP posters could cover the red graffiti that’s there now.

  • Reader

    Well if you think it will help…

  • wild turkey

    lionel

    ‘On so many levels, what the fuck are you talking about? ‘

    well exactly. three comments in six minutes?

    i could ask you to get your knuckles off the greensward and to at least run you fingers along the words. but i will not.

    i feel your pain.

  • Lionel Hutz

    Right, wild turkey, I’m sure there is a wisdom to your babblings. I’ll just leave it with you.

  • old school

    Seosamh, my Great Uncle died in WW1, in some field in Northern French.
    “Shame” is too strong a word.
    Times were different back then. He had no information to shape his decision. No T.V, internet, alanlysis etc.
    No work and no welfare system also a factor for turning bored, unemployed and hungry men into cannon fodder. He was misled, used and spat out.
    WW1, like WW2 was basically a war between two Imperialist Nations, who both thought only they had the right to invade small nations.

  • Wabbits

    I note that the Shinners posters have now been removed from the war memorial lamp posts in the Diamond in Derry. Either the Shinners wised up (unlikely) and took them down or the wee lads from the Fountain (probable) will have found a use for them around about the twelfth.

  • Alias

    wild turkey, good post (#2). In regard to rendering onto Caesar: the Catholic Church is a state, so there is a political culture there that brings it closer to the expediencies of Pontius Pilate than the morality of Jesus. Jesus wore rags and lived among the poor, but the bishops and cardinals wear the finest cloth and live in palaces. Jesus wept but these shysters smirk. If these folks actually believed in the second coming, what do they think he’d make of their lavish lifestyles? The poor nuns and priests would be spared his wrath but more the moneychangers would be flung out of the temples. 😉

  • old school

    I agree regarding the first WW, but no way about the second. What we just forget about 20 million dead Russians, not mention 12 million (six million Jews, six million anyone else) murdered in concentration camps. If ever a war had to be fought, it is the second world war.

    When we can look at our old soldiers and be proud, we will be growing up as an independent nation.

  • Alias

    I completely agree, theres more than merchants in the temple these days.

  • Alias

    Well, you might not agree with this. 😉

    Those members of the Irish nation who asserted the right to their nation to self-determination were hung for treason by the British state, so I don’t think folks should be ‘proud’ of those who joined an army that denied their right to an Irish nation-state. Nations are only proud of their patriots, and never of their quislings.

  • old school

    Pippakin, you’ve been brought up on the Victors history.
    Have you ever heard of the Bengali Holocaust?
    Of course not. It’s not taught in schools.
    Up to 8 million civilian deaths caused by Churchill in the Bengal Province..
    Winston gave it two lines in his autobiography.
    Both sides carried out atrocities.
    I know one elderly man who fought in Normandy in D-Day. Before he died he destroyed his British medals. He personally told me he saw German soldiers hung from trees, with their balls cut off and stuck in their mouths.

  • old school

    Britain was also the first to use the concentration camp, and also the first to use poisonous gas on civilian towns.
    Your asking me to choose one vicious imperialist over the other?
    Had it not been for the ridiculous and humiliating Treaty of Versailles, the Germans would’ve sued for a lasting peace. They were pushed into a corner.

  • Alias

    You are absolutely right. I do not approve of calling soldiers who fought with the Allies in the second world war ‘quislings’:(

    I wonder how the Nazis would have treated us if they had won, whatever else we are, Arian we aint.

    I always call them by the name that fits: Nazis. The Germans did not deserve such a flood of shite, indeed many Germans died in concentration camps.

  • Reader

    old school: Britain was also the first to use the concentration camp
    That was the Spanish.

  • old school

    I know, but being Brits they were nothing like as efficient as the Nazis.

    I am not asking you to choose. I say look at the facts. I agree with you Germany was treated badly after the first world war and it lead to the rise of Nazism, Make no mistake Nazism had to be defeated and we should be proud that so many of our people took part in that.

    What did the old soldier think of Auschwitz, Belson, Riga, and so on? War is always terrible, 100,000 German soldiers surrendered in Stalingrad, 10,000 survived. Every war has its horror stories. The thing is had the Nazis won the horror would not have stopped with their victory.

  • old school

    The Brits used them in the Boer War, Reader.

  • old school

    The Brits were extremely efficient at killing. Thats how they won ffs. Dresden and Cologne for example was designed to kill as many civilians as they could. All if possible.
    The “old soldier” ended up a nervous wreck, after his experiences. The fact that a young British soldier cracked his skull with a baton, in Creggan 30 years later didn’t help much either.

  • The Raven

    Well. Wouldn’t where this topic has ended up REALLY engage the first time voter…

  • socaire

    patience, stick to the knitting. If you join the French Foreign Legion you recieve French citizenship, if you join the British Army you renounce your Irish citizenship – ergo – no Irish fought in the British Army. If however you define Irish as having been born in Ireland then our ‘brethren’ in the 6 counties will tell you they are not Irish but British. So who, fom this country fought in the BA but legionnaires and mercenaries no matter how ‘noble’ the cause was?

  • socaire

    sorry ‘receive’

  • old school

    You would think there were no Brits killed in the second world war.

    Your old soldier was not the only one to end up a nervous wreck, many did. It makes no difference what you think of the Brits, it will not hurt them but what you think of the Irish matters. The Irish who fought in the second world war were not traitors, they were heroes. Its time we gave them the respect they are due.

  • socaire!

    It is as ever…

    If you check I think you will find that many soldiers in the second world war fought with the Americans. Are they traitors too? Check Wiki and see how the two groups were treated by the govt when they returned home.

    That war had to be fought and won and whoever fought with the Allies is a hero and we should recognise that. What, are we so small and narrow minded we cannot see that. I dont think so.

  • The Raven

    Blame the poster! All it needs is “YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU” beneath and she could be a he anywhere.

  • old school

    The German soldiers weren’t traitors either.And they certainly weren’t cowards. They weren’t all blood thirsty Nazis.
    They were facing Communist incursions from the East, and Imperialists from the West.
    They were defending their families and homes.
    2 million German women and girls were raped by Allies in the weeks after the War.
    Why did the British go to war over Poland, when at the time they still occupied huge swathes of the globe?
    If you think it was heroic for some Irish to fight German imperialism, do you also believe it is heroic for some Irish to fight British Imperialism?

  • old school

    I certainly do not think all Germans were Nazis I made that clear in my comment to Alias. I also mentioned the 100,000 who surrendered in Stalingrad and the 10,000 who survived the prison camp…

    The Brits had an agreement with Poland. I think you are unaware of how unpopular the idea of war was in Britain. Chamberlains ‘piece of paper’ was greeted as almost the holy grail then, when it was shown to be false, it became a byword for treachery and disgrace. A music hall joke. It finished Chamberlains career, and made an unpopular politician, previously hated as a war monger, the most iconic leader Britain ever had.

    I think the returning Irish soldiers were treated badly by the Irish govt, that is a fact and you can check it out.

    I think the earlier fighting by the IRA was necessary to gain independence. It should have stopped in the early seventies.

    I am totally against violence, but more than anything I am against the violence we turn on our own. I respect Brendan Hughes and others like him, they feel betrayed and I can understand that, but I agree with the peace, totally.

  • old school

    You are not “totally against violence” considering your previous posts.
    Just violence from certain quarters.

  • old school

    I am totally opposed to men in white suits grabbing some poor devil, bundling him into a van and beating the holy crap out of him, in the name of republicanism. We have equality, we have every chance, given peace, of persuading the voters we need, and I believe a united Ireland will happen in the not too distant future.

    Excuse me if I believe the second world war had to be fought and won. I have no patience with those who deny how important it was. Fat lot of good an independent Ireland would be if we were all in concentration camps, and you can blame the Brits for starting the camps if you want, but the Nazis were the ones who perfected them.

  • Some of you have a perverse view of history and it seems to circle around your own bigoted view that anything and everything the Brits are or were in favour of must be bad.
    Get over yourselves and face the facts – of all the regions in Europe, the Island of Ireland had a pretty cushy 20th century. I would say the same about Swizerland and Sweden too. Ireland never had a Sobibor or a gulag. Ireland didn’t lose a third of its population in war like some parts of the Soviet Union and even if you say it was occupied, the Brits were gentlemanly compared to the NKVD or the SS. The most damage done to the island was caused by its natives, either through violence or mismanagement. And yes, I count Planters as natives, you pedantic dicks.
    Wallowing in your own invented victim-hood is a pretty shite hobby if you ask me especially in light of what is happening in other places in the world.

  • B O O

    You are a star! You must forgive us, some of us have yet to learn you can love Ireland without hating the Brits.

    I hope you read the whole of this thread. If you did you will know what I think of Germany, and it may be true, the Soviets lost 20,000000 but that is no excuse (not at all) for what happened to the prisoners of war.

    I have wondered what I would have done had I been in Nazi. Oscar Schindler was not so unusual among Germans, except for one thing, he had no family. I can tell you now and it is the absolute truth. I might risk me, I would never risk my family, and nor would most sane people. Germany has nothing to answer for.

  • Thanks Pipakin. You could also say that there are Unionists who have yet to learn that they can love Ulster without hating the South and its people.
    I had a brief look at the rest of the thread and it is depressing. And laughable – especially the bit where someone, in the middle of a bout of pro-nazi revisionism spoke of “communist incursions from the east” – Old School forgot to add that that the 3rd Reich invaded Russia to begin with…
    What the Soviets did to German prisoners and civilians was of course criminal. But no more criminal than what the Soviet regime did to its own people. What do you expect from a Stalinist pig, but a grunt?
    I have little pity, however, for that generation of Germans. They voted Hitler in even though it was clear what type of people he and his party were.
    OK, must rush off now, but the link below provides an interesting look at how a war criminal escaped justice in the post-nazi Germany. all the best, W
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,687922,00.html

  • slappymcgroundout

    “They were defending their families and homes.”

    What color is the sky in your world?

    The quest for lebensraum at the expense of the untermensch had zero to do with defending family and home. You might ask the Roma in your neck of the woods what they think of being considered untermensch and treated accordingly by their German friends.

    Lastly, unlike some here, I don’t give a pass to most Germans. You don’t exterminate 12 million souls without plenty help.

    Almost forgot, but re the treatment of POWs and the rapes following, well, payback’s a b. The Germans shoulda thought of that before they treated some the way they did early in the war. Or as we here in America would say, what goes around comes around. And with that, Woody Guthrie paying tribute to one hero of that war:

    309 confirmed kills for Ms. Lyudmila Mikhailovna Pavlichenko. Entitling her to be called well and truly Badass:

    http://www.badassoftheweek.com/pavlichenko.html

  • Michaelhenry

    one of the i.r.a leaders during the black and tan war tom barry served in the british army during world war 1, when people say that the irish who came home from the first world war were treated badly that could be true, but the bad manners did not come from republicans.

  • Michaelhenry

    All I am saying is we should respect our soldiers, especially those who fought with the Allies in the second world war.

    It is long overdue and should not be grudgingly given.

  • Michaelhenry

    the nazis had to be fought pippakin, those who stood agaist the nazis had not got a hope during the early years of the second world war, but they stood, what happened to the jews would have happened to all the people on the planet only for the soldiers and civilians who defended then attacked then won, and won for us all.

  • RobertEmmett

    no doubt the American supplied arms to the Nazi, the closed borders to emigrating Jewsm, theco-operation of the channel island police, the supplying of counting machines to the camps by IBM, and the fact the US bobmbers could bomb IG Farben chemcial plant next door Auscwhitz, but not the gas chambers all helped to make the Nazi’s job that little bit easier

  • Reader

    socaire: …if you join the British Army you renounce your Irish citizenship – ergo – no Irish fought in the British Army.
    That’s not actually true. It may be your opinion, but no-one has appointed you as the custodian of Irish Citizenship, which is controlled by the constitution.
    You could work for a referendum on the issue – how would you rate your chances?

  • Michaelhenry

    if us bombers had of bombed the gas chambers then they would be killing prisoners themselves the bold robertemmett, but by bombing the ig farben chemical plant at there own risk they helped to speed up the wars end.

  • Michaelhenry

    us i mean u.s

  • John East Belfast

    old school

    Surely you arent on her defending the Third Reich because of the “Treaty of Versailles”, “Western Imperialists” and “Eastern communists” ?

    You will be denying the holocaust next

  • It is true that some people think the Allies should have bombed the camps, but I disagree, and that is with the benefit of hindsight.

    What happened in the camps had never happened anywhere, on such a scale, before. I mean we are talking telephone numbers!

    What happened is still mind boggling, almost impossible to imagine. No one could have been expected to believe in the appalling truth, without seeing it. I still find it hard to believe, even faced with the obvious evidence. Back then it would have seemed impossible.

    I am sorry, I am partly responsible for the way this thread has been lead astray, but in a way, it is no bad thing to remember the appalling events of the past.

  • old school

    Slappy thinks 2 million incidents of rape and paedophilia by the allies was “payback”.
    One of the most disgusting posts ever I have seen.
    Must remember that the next time he’s condemning some minor alert or hoax device.

  • old school

    This may be a first, but gotta say it, I agree with you…

  • slappymcgroundout

    “23.Slappy thinks 2 million incidents of rape and paedophilia by the allies was “payback”.
    One of the most disgusting posts ever I have seen.”

    You aren’t the brightest tool in the shed, are you? Didn’t say that it was right or wrong, instead I simply called it what it was. And that’s what it was, payback.

    Again, didn’t say right or wrong, but I can understand why it happened. Maybe if you’d consider what you left out, the rape of Russian women en masse, and all those Russian POWs who never returned home…

    The Russians lost 20 million people during that war. And you’re crying over Nazi POWs who didn’t come home and 2 mil acts of rape? Are the Russians human to you?

    You are so dimwitted that you don’t even know that the Russians lost 2x as many civilians as German combat deaths. Something like 13 million versus 4.5 million. Total deaths, Soviet Union = 24 million or so, versus 6.5 million Germans. Again, you’re crying about German POWs and rape? At least the gals raped lived to tell the tale. That’s better than being dead, which was the fate of 13 million Russian civilians along with 10 million Russian soldiers.

    And you can remember what you want. In the meanimte, you are an apologist for genocide and mass murder, with your “defending family and home”. Do me a favor and kindly crawl back under the rock you slithered out from under. Thanks.

    Pip: Until you’re over the flu, have the doubtful grace to STFU. Thanks.

  • slappymcgroundout

    Almost forgot, but cretinous one, I may be understating the Russian dead:

    “There’s no way you can ‘remember’ 20 million as the figure for total dead in WW2, as that figure has NEVER been put forward by historians as the final total. 50 million to 60 million is a figure that’s been bandied about by historians and the media as long as I can remember, so there’s nothing new in 60 million being mentioned in public by a politician. As for exaggeration, the above figure is based on between 20 million Russian war dead (what the USSR admitted to), and 26 million Russian war dead (estimate by Western historians). However, at a conference in Berlin in the late 1990s I was speaking with a Russian historian who was one of the first to be allowed in to the state archives after the fall of Communism, and he told me his research (conducted using official WW2 Soviet documents) indicates that the total of Russian dead in WW2 was at least 40 million, and possibly many more.”

    Yeah, and I have a book here at home that also puts the total Russian dead at over 40 million. Payback’s a b.

    3.3 million of 5.7 million Russian POWs did not, repeat, did not return home. Again, have you no word for them? One more time, not saying right or wrong, but payback’s a b.

  • Slappymac

    STFU???

    Two wrongs dont make a right.

    ‘Payback’ is not an excuse, it should be a jail sentence!

    Terrible things happen in was, yes, but you do not perpetuate them in peace, just because you can.

    BTW not fully recovered yet but getting there…