The MI5 problem is real

The role of MI5 under the catchall of “national security” could be a time bomb. After all the twists and turns of years of the peace process it risks handing an initiative to the dissidents. The Kieran Doherty affair keeps rumbling on. The pattern of events is all too familiar. Man with murky associations is murdered, local politicians pin as much of the blame on the authorities as on the group who shot him. The nightmare scenario is that the local community is stirred up against the authorities more than the killers and away we go, to hell and perdition.

It is understood Sinn Fein MLA Martina Anderson accompanied the Real IRA man to his solicitor’s office in Derry last December after he received a Christmas card from MI5’s “Justin” wishing him and his family seasons greetings and a comment about “getting together” in 2010. A source said: “Kieran was worried by the moves being made by MI5 to get him to talk to them.

If true, this is no way for MI5 to behave. Of course it may not be true; it may be dissident republican smoke. Whichever it is, delivering solemn little lectures about the source of criminal responsibility to SF’s Martina Anderson is a waste of time. Eamonn McCann poses the problem mildly. He and Ed Curran noted Mark Durkan’s concerns were dismissed at the last NI questions at Westminster. Yet it’s clear that Sinn Fein are not forcing a crisis over the Doherty killing and are content to leave it as a second order issue. When it comes to secret protocols certainly unwritten and perhaps even unspoken, it’s hard to believe that MI5 operations have not got Sinn Fein’s implied consent. It behoves MI5 to tread carefully and for Sinn Fein in a crisis to live up to their share of new responsibilities for law, order and justice. For undercover work, the accountability gap will never be filled, but the Chief Constable and the new Minister of Justice must be given enough information to make a credible reply over affairs like the Doherty murder. Trust is fragile and stonewalling will only make matters worse.

  • Michaelhenry

    mi5 are just jealous of the james bond mi6,then again you never saw james bond take on the provos in any of his films,them pesky gadgets would have been no good.

  • joeCanuck

    them pesky gadgets would have been no good

    What’s this? Are batteries in short supply in Ireland?

  • Michaelhenry

    mi5 brains are in short supply joecanuck.

  • andnowwhat

    Martin Mc Guiness saying “your reputation has preceeded you Mr Bond” in his Derry accent just wouldn’t work at all.

    Anyway, where would the have got the big lazer table thing?

  • Fearglic

    The big lazer doofy would be got at MFI. On a serious note- how many MI5 agents were Republican sympathisers?

  • hodgie

    the deaths of both kieran doherty and john brady were hardly mentioned in passing by sinn fein.

    the sinn fein party are inixtricably tied into and supportive of the legal system and have renounced physical force republicans as “traitors”.

    Then there was the deal with the british which saw them welcome MI5 to Irish soil! i think they called it a manifestation of community policing.

    you can hardly expect them to be vocal or critical when it comes to MI5 doing what they are, essentially, paid to do.

  • Michaelhenry

    what physical force republicans hodgie,those who killed kieran doherty,the real have killed no cops the continunity have killed no brits,know your history and not what some bar stool general tells you between rounds.

  • coconnor

    I’m confused Michaelhenry, do organisations need to have killed both a “cop” and a “brit” to achieve full “physical force republican” status?

  • hodgie

    thankyou coconnor, i can’t make that comment out either or what its asaking

  • Michaelhenry

    coconnor old pal the continunity has been active for 24 years without killing one britsh soldier and the real has been active for 12 years without killing a cop thats why they are not military republican,did you ever wonder why those media types who have claimed to have dissident sources for over 20 years,why they did not ask there source this question,the truth is out there.

  • Whilst I seriously doubt the Brits ever sent an informer a christmas card. I do wonder if they or someone else may have done it to incriminate someone. I also wonder why any republican with a working brain cell would believe such an unlikely event, if they did believe it, which again I doubt.

  • IRIA

    Pip: So, you rubbish the claims that the Brits have contacted Dissidents or whomever by Christmas card? Seems like a perfectly reasonable way of contact.

  • IRIA

    No doubt they included a signed photo of the Queen too.

  • IRIA

    Not sure why it would be hard to believe they would reach out in that manner.

  • old school

    Kieran doherty tried to open a legitimate business in Derry, but the PSNI would not give him a license to trade. He lost thousands that he had invested in equipment.
    Some time after that began the inducements by the British, who, by then knew he was financially in trouble. Around the same time a business friend was stopped by MI5 at SCHIPOL Airport, Holland. Hmmmm! This man had no connection with the Republican movement but was close to Kieran. Some time after that cannabis was found in a house owned by a senior Republican, and of which Kieran was the caretaker.
    The British and the media immediately jumped on this to wrongly insinuate a drugs link to the RIRA. Sinn Fein in Derry also launched a whispering campaign, implying that Kieran was behind the drugs and it was financing the RIRA.
    The RIRA launched an internal investigation and questioned all those involved. Some named Kieran as being implicit.As Kieran was the only one who was bound by IRA rules and regulations, he was the one who was unfortunately shot. Although questioned about MI5 links Doherty denied any. He did however finally admit playing a role in the cannabis scam.
    Those in Sinn Fein, who launched the whispering campaign against Kieran, then wrung their hands. Those who drove him to financial ruin wrung their hands. And those who planted the drugs, and planned the black operation wrung their hands.

  • old school

    No one does wounded innocence better than republicans, unless it is the Brits…

  • old school

    Pippa, The Republicans admitted their role in the death of Kieran.
    Time for the PSNI, PSF, and MI5 to do likewise.

  • old school

    Confessed would be a better word, and I doubt the Brits will, they, unless they have been dragged there kicking and screaming, never have.

  • Cynic2

    What’s the problem?

    It worked with PIRA and SF.

  • Cynic2

    Thats the problem.

  • Rory Carr

    “Those in Sinn Fein, who launched the whispering campaign against Kieran, then wrung their hands. Those who drove him to financial ruin wrung their hands. And those who planted the drugs, and planned the black operation wrung their hands.” – Old School

    …and those who tortured him, stripped him, shot him in the head and left his naked body on a lonely country road did they do any hand-wringing I wonder?

  • old school

    No they haven’t been doing any “hand wringing”.
    They admitted why they killed him the next day, and took responsibility.
    Had they not killed him, PSF would still be branding his name as a drug dealer, until someone killed him.

  • I consider the murder of Kieran was a sadistic murder of an Irish man. No one, republican or anything else, should get to choose which Irishman lives or dies, especially when the murderer/s are trumpeting their Irishness!

  • Seamus

    “Those in Sinn Fein, who launched the whispering campaign against Kieran, then wrung their hands. Those who drove him to financial ruin wrung their hands. And those who planted the drugs, and planned the black operation wrung their hands.” – Old School

    …and those who tortured him, stripped him, shot him in the head and left his naked body on a lonely country road did they do any hand-wringing I wonder?

    Posted by Rory Carr on Mar 31, 2010 @ 06:33

    With respect Rory. Torture ?

    I consider the murder of Kieran was a sadistic murder of an Irish man. No one, republican or anything else, should get to choose which Irishman lives or dies, especially when the murderer/s are trumpeting their Irishness!

    Posted by pippakin on Mar 31, 2010 @ 07:12 PM

    As a senior member of an Army would he not have been well aware of the rules and regulations within same ?

  • aquifer

    MI5 are entitled to defend English and Irish cities and citizens against blackmail bombs from whoever.

    Did MI5 send a letter bomb?

    They sent a christmas card.(or not)

    Really scary stuff for a sectarian separatist to get apparently, though it is not MI5 they are afraid of!

    If you are asked to tout just say yes.

    Better for everyone than just saying no, though that can’t be that hard either.

  • Seamus

    No one needs to strip and torture. Anyone who does such a thing, needs to be asked some serious questions – by a doctor.

  • Michaelhenry

    its time a doctor asked a lot of british soldies then,pippakin.

  • Michaelhenry

    What makes you think they are not…

  • joeCanuck

    Whataboutery is alive and well.

    I haven’t see as many “Protestant” commenters around these parts in some time. Wonder why and I wonder if Mick should be concerned.

  • old school

    Pippakin will you quit with the torture allegations, as you are only causing more distress to his family.
    I know you want to sex up your posts, but stick to facts or post a link to some evidence.
    He was stripped to his underpants, which is also standard behaviour when the PSNI arrest someone.

  • old school

    I will be happy to, may I also say I am happy my little comments have had such an effect on a hardliner such as yourself. Now if only the dissidents had considered my displeasure, and Kierans familys feelings first…

  • J Kelly

    Old School, I have been reading over a few of your post in recent days and it seems that you are trapped in a bubble. Attacking Gerry Adams while defending the killing of Kieron Doherty. You claim that the so called RIRA answered their part in this. Lies. Court of inquiry and court martial all in the space of two hours. He was taken out to protect someone else, you know it, I know it and the cowboys hanging around the 720 know it. The so called RIRA in Derry are nothing but a joke followed and supported by hoods and thieves. And to round it off our hero is off the scene on hunger strike when the heat comes on again. Last year after the Panorama handling when the guards came across the film crew and a few young turks funnily enough our hero and his crew drive into a check point and are all remanded. Another campaign for our hero. Old school wake up and smell the stink the so called RIRA in Derry are infiltrated up to their necks. Kieron Doherty was killed in my view by the so called RIRA assisted by MI5 and their agents who manipulated both him and them to protect someone of more value.

    About a whisper campaign it was Kieron Doherty who approached Martina Anderson to seek help.

  • Rory Carr

    Old School justifies Doherty’s murder by the RIRA by saying that, “Had they not killed him…” someone else would have sooner or later.

    What does he think this murder was, some humanitarian act to spare the poor man the angst of waiting?

    I suppose we should at least be grateful for Old School’s lesson in the ethics of gangsterism a subject some of us might not be as well versed in as he appears to be.

  • Rory Carr

    Shame on your ignorance, You know the Mafia always send the largest wreaths!

  • [quote][i]mi5 brains are in short supply joecanuck.[/i]… Posted by Michaelhenry on Mar 31, 2010 @ 12:45 PM[/quote]

    One imagines that that would be a popular immaculate misconception, Michaelhenry, they will be happy to supply whenever needed.

    Certainly the local brain supply is a tad stuck in the inglorious past and could do some radically recharging for the fast track transition to peaceful and prosperous coexistence and international rebranding.

  • karlo polo

    my favourite bit was michaelhenry telling hodgie to ‘know your history’ … I got a great laugh from that

  • union mack

    JoeCanuck

    there are few around for two reasons: their opinions aren’t welcome by 99% of those on here, and they’re too busy on other forums attacking each other.