“Saville is pointless (so is any question on it)”

Someone has mischievously leaked an email from the putative Northern Ireland Justice Minister David Ford to the Liberal Democrats dating from last November. The BBC report highlights the relevant line

In the email leaked to the BBC, entitled ‘Northern Ireland Questions’, Mr Ford states “Saville is pointless”, adding in brackets and “so is any question on it”.

Adds In the comments zone, [Alliance Party member] “Sammy Morse” points to an earlier reference to the email by Mark Devenport – although Saville doesn’t get a mention.

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  • west belfast

    Im surprised the sdlp has got off so lightly around this.

    The one group you do not play politics with in Derry are the families of those killed on Bloody Sunday.

    Its outrageous that they held on to this email for 4 months and then use it to embarrass Ford. I disagree with the man on this but he is allowed an opinion.

    Someone should ask Mark Durkan if he knew his party was going to leak this – I suspect he did not and will be privately furious.

  • joeCanuck

    Not quite the right word, Catherine.

    Treacherous:
    ▸ adjective: dangerously unstable and unpredictable (“Treacherous winding roads”)
    ▸ adjective: tending to betray; especially having a treacherous character as attributed to the Carthaginians by the Romans (“The fiercest and most treacherous of foes”)

    More like politics at its best/worst.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    oh west belfast…lets be honest…
    every party has used the relatives of Bloody Sunday for political advantage (and indeed every other tragedy).
    But in 8 weeks time (polling day) David Pointless will be the Justice Minister……and Mark Durkan can say that he voted against Pointless.
    But his SF-IRA opponent will not be able to say that.

  • Brian MacAodh

    The British government would never apologize, even though almost all would have been satisfied.

    They don’t mind spending 200 mil of taxpayers money making it seem like they are the good guys. THe longer it drags, the farther away Bloody Sunday goes in the memory of the 6 counties.

    An apology also would have made them open to a ton of lawsuits, for the shooting themselves and the covering up done at Widgery and before.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Fitz, you’ve been posting here all day. Haven’t you got a job to go to ? Is it Bloody Sunday that caused you to take up your inkpot and invent yourself as Irish nationalism’s answer to Rush Limbaugh ?

    As the DUP dont want a taig about the place… aman more principled than David Ford might have said “Im not taking it”.

    The reason why Ford is taking it is not because he pestered everyone for the job, but because the DUP and SF floated the idea in public and subsequently negotiated with the party to obtain it.

    The opposition to the SDLP taking the ministry is coming from Sinn Fein. They’re not so stupid as to actually say this in public. I don’t think the unionists would be so massively up in arms about someone like Alban Maginness taking the job. I wouldn’t be, personally (I might object more to someone like Attwood, or a fifth columnist like yourself). I think the SDLP would probably make quite a good job of it. That’s exactly what SF don’t want.

    If you’ve got a problem with the SDLP not getting the job – which they wouldn’t anyway if d’Hondt were run from the top – take it up with SF.

    coconnor:

    I reckon that saying “In those circumstances there would have been no need for an inquiry” is quite different from saying the inquiry is ‘pointless’.

    Yes, but Ford was speaking privately, and when you’re talking to people who know what makes you tick, you don’t have to wrap lots of extra wording around what you say to ensure you’re not misinterpreted.

    ardmaj:

    Bohereen. Sinn Fein will have to be wary of supporting Ford now, with the reaction nationalist voters will watching to see if they carry on with this stitch up. The D’Hont system would let a UUP man [or woman ] in ahead of SDLP, but at least you know what you’re getting with them and Ritchie will still have another ministry.

    Eh ? The political wing of the Orange Order/Tories and their refusal to accept that injustice occurred on Bloody Sunday would be preferable to Ford ? Are you sane ?

    I hope the SF don’t suggest another AP Justice Chair instead of Ford, because that might not be enough for some of their base. The alliance have now been found out for the fakes they always were, under Ford, at least. He is surely now flushed out.

    You need to understand a few realities. One of them is that SF want the justice devolution to proceed. They want it to happen really, really badly. But they don’t want it so badly as to desire a propaganda victory for the SDLP.

    Secondly, while Ford’s private comments may or may not be judged to have been insensitive (the issue seems far from clear cut), look at the other people we’re all expected to put up with on the Executive. How is it that you can rule someone out of office for failing to pay due deference to the nationalist line on Bloody Sunday, and yet expect the rest of us to put up with having to be governed by ex-gunmen and bombers ?

    Compare and contrast with, for example, the insinuation by the Minister for Regional Development that Paul Quinn, who was beaten so much that his corpse resembled jelly, was the victim of retribution as a consequence of being a common criminal. Isn’t that “insensitive” ? Or is there a hierarchy whereby anything perceived – wrongly in this case – to be some sort of slight against nationalist victimology takes precedence ?

    (before anyone has a go at me – I think Bloody Sunday was a crime where soldiers used wholly disproportionate force against unarmed civilians – the British government should apologize for both the event and the attempt to cover it up at Widgery – and compensate the relatives of the victims)

    The truth of the matter is that this political process which we’re all working within has a few unpleasant aspects to it, and one of those unpleasant aspects is that pain and victimhood are set to one side. I don’t like that, but that’s the world we’re in, and it won’t change until everyone agrees to a proper peace and reconciliation process. The victims of paramilitary violence here, or their survivng relatives, will likely never live to see any kind of inquiry into the facts about what really happened here as the IRA, UDA/UVF/etc are never likely to own up. That suits all the parties, including the British army, just fine.

    And given that it was the SDLP who leaked this email, and that they held on to it for some time to maximise it’s effect as a political weapon, I wonder if they really are in a position to lecture people about the need for sensitivity to the victims.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    ComradeStalin,
    No I dont have a job to go to..I am a senior citizen but as you know my name (not outed me yet have you?) you should actually know this.

  • ardmaj55

    Comrade Stalin. I haven’t suggested that the UUP Justice ministry would be better or more acceptable than, if given to Ford. I don’t think the actual Justice minister would be anything more than a figurehead in any case. Haven’t SF and DUP given themselves the committee chairmanships. That’s where the real P&J influence will come from. I don’t believe SF are too worried about propaganda victories for SDLP. They’re not exactly shaking in their boots at the prospect of dealing with Ritchie, are they.

  • joeCanuck

    FitzjamesHorse,
    Stop challenging Comrade to “out” you. Sounds like the game we used to play as kids when challenged but neither party felt comfortable about winning at fisticuffs (I dare you, I double dare you). If you want to be outed, do it yourself. Hopefully it will be a shorter name.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Fitz, as I already said, I don’t want the pleasure of outing you, I want to see how many people can figure you out. I didn’t know you were retired, I guess that explains why you’re out to pasture around here.

    BTW I meant to add – there’s a very real prospect that Ford won’t become the justice minister. There are rumours that Robinson will call an election, and that’s looking very likely if the UUP continue on their present course. It’s far from in the bag.

    ardmaj,

    I was responding specifically to the part where you said “The D’Hont system would let a UUP man [or woman ] in ahead of SDLP, but at least you know what you’re getting with them”. The clear implication is that the UUP would be preferable to Alliance. Given the antics of the UUP lately, I think that’s insane.

    Committee chairmanships are influential, but they’re not anywhere near as influential as the minister is in their own right. For example, the chair of the education committee is Mervyn Storey. Have you seen him overturn any of the education minister’s decisions yet ?

    I don’t believe SF are too worried about propaganda victories for SDLP.

    Then you don’t understand the nature of the beast. Did you notice how SF closed ranks against Margaret Ritchie when she (rightly) moved to stop CTI funding to the UDA ? Why do you think SF would move to discredit another nationalist minister trying to withhold funding from loyalist paramilitaries ?

    They’re not exactly shaking in their boots at the prospect of dealing with Ritchie, are they.

    SF look almost unassailable, but then, if you’d asked me at the beginning of December I’d have said the same about the DUP. Politics has a way of throwing up the unexpected. The only surprise to me at the moment is the way the Liam Adams stuff appears not to have damaged Gerry.

    Fortunately for SF, the SDLP are doing a very good job of digging their own grave at the moment. All this incessant whining over the justice ministry isn’t achieving much except putting the image in the mind of the general public that the SDLP failed at negotiations and, more significantly, that the SDLP is trying to destabilize the institutions for it’s own party political gain.

  • ardmaj55

    Comrade Stalin. I should have included this in earlier post [7] but just to be clear, I’m not a sinn fein voter, nor do i condone the provos campaign. It’s the British govt who want them in the govt here, so they won’t allow an arrangement at stormont which excludes them. Anyway, they do have a large mandate which Ford has very little of.

  • Alias

    Can someone be called a “senior citizen” at 57? Only 13 years to go then… how depressing.

  • Comrade Stalin

    ardmaj:

    I should have included this in earlier post [7] but just to be clear, I’m not a sinn fein voter, nor do i condone the provos campaign. It’s the British govt who want them in the govt here, so they won’t allow an arrangement at stormont which excludes them.

    I didn’t think you were an SF voter, but you do seem to be a bit confused; the British don’t “want” SF in government so much as they will support any process which looks like it could be stable irrespective of who the players are.

    As for this idea that there couldn’t be a peace process if SF were being excluded, well, you can thank the SDLP for that. We can’t change any of that now, of course, and no reasonable person could say that SF have not come a long way.

    Anyway, they do have a large mandate which Ford has very little of..

    Yeah, but mandates aren’t prerequisites to government in a coalition. Alliance has a larger mandate in NI than the Green Party does in the RoI. Worse, the Greens get three seats in the cabinet. Do you hear Fine Gael or Labour whining all day about being excluded from their “entitlement” ? No you don’t.

  • Doire_Abu

    ‘Yeah, but mandates aren’t prerequisites to government in a coalition. Alliance has a larger mandate in NI than the Green Party does in the RoI. Worse, the Greens get three seats in the cabinet. Do you hear Fine Gael or Labour whining all day about being excluded from their “entitlement” ? No you don’t.’

    You are comparing apples and pears. An election was held where we knew electoral strength would dictate number of cabinet places. Those were the rules that political parties went forward on and voters voted on. Alliance didn’t get enough to get a cabinet place. They get the nod for an additional cabinet post, not based on the voter wishes but because they a) aren’t nationalist/republican, to suit the DUP and, b)not the SDLP, to suit SF.

    Fine Gael or Labout in the RoI didn’t present themselves to the voters with any guarantee of government other than electoral strength or ability to negotiate a coalition with other parties.

    Your use of the term ‘whinig’ – not very mature and respectful of others opinions is it?

  • FitzjamesHorse

    I see David Pointless has apologised.
    Which kinda means he feels he has done something wrong.
    Which kinda means that those in this thread who defended him on the basis that he hadnt actually done anything wrong…are now in a dilemna ….do they say they were wrong and obviously David was “bang to rights”.
    Or perhaps they think their leader should not have apologised and was right all along ….in which case their Leader is a “straw man”.

    A third possibility……too awful for me to contemplate……is that Davids apology was basically going thru the motions and insincere.

    Actually David Ford……….insincere……….do anything for a Ministerial post……yes Id go with that.

  • ardmaj55

    Comrade Stalin. I get your point now about the UUP recent antics. I was thinking more of what they appeared to be some time ago. They have definitely been acting bizarrely recently, especially given that the they’ve thrown away the electoral advantage they should now have over the DUP, just to prevent ‘themmuns having FM post. Empty is completely out of his depth, as is Ford now.
    He apologised last night for holding views about Bloody Sunday that he claims never to have held.
    He still hasn’t taken Callaghan’s sage advice about digging holes.

  • ardmaj55

    FJH. [14] Apparrently David Ford’s grasp of English is dodgy because he now claims as part of his ‘digging himself in even further’, effort, that the terms ‘pointless’ and ineffectual’ mean the same thing.
    Or could it be that he had little option but to try that one out to avoid admitting he is at best indifferent to the deaths of 14 innocent people at the hands of British Paras. Claiming, as he did, that the email was written in haste and poorly expressed, when he never intended it to be made public is the mark of a true politician. he should go far in the UUP.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Youre right of course.
    But I have a certain sympathy for David Pointless. I can say that publicly here because no Alliance apologist will look at this thread now (a bit embarrassing) so they want to see it quickly disappear off the Slugger radar.
    I mean Friday is one of those days I am in gainful employment and after yesterdays flurry of synthetic Alliance indignation (Sammy Morse/Comrade Stalin) about how brilliant David is……..one might reasonably have expected a few posts here saying its all right cos hes apologised.

    Except of course Sammy Morse and ComradeStalin stuck their necks out too far yesterday (by SUPPORTING Ford) and now that hes apologised Sammy and Stalin have been cut off at the knees.

    That might be mixing metaphors. But you get my point. The AP types are prepared to let this thread sink into oblivion. Thank goodness for the likes of you and me to keep it alive.

    Oh that sympathy for David Pointless……well in emails we all tend to say things that arent for public consumption. So Fords crime was actually two fold……….saying it AND getting caught.
    Although somehow for alliance supporters this turns out to be BBC perfidy.
    Bet Maria Purdy is not flavour of the month on the Hill.

  • granni trixie

    Granni’s back in town (yes, I have a life …and I see you have been busy with your usual recreational slagging off Alliance. As someone who respects not to say admires DF I naturally have a different perspective ie he made a human error, did his best to put it right – get over it.

    What I am interested in understanding is why Alliance draws such vitriol (spelling?) from some of you?. It must be to do with prejudiced assumptions and/or reminds you of your own sins of omission? Middle of the road is preferable in my book to sitting on the sidelines carping.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Oh granni, I can assure you that Ive never been happy on the sidelines.
    I personally can do good natured banter and vitriol.
    For myself I can identify three reasons but of course they are irrelevant to this thread as it would only divert us down a road that is not about taking pleasure at David Fords discomfort.

  • granni trixie

    But is this an ‘innocent’ pleasure? My Archers thing is an innocent pleasure, my Toblerone thing a guilty pleasure but what ytou do is obvously strategic.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    All my pleasures are innocent.
    If anyone starts a thread on it, Id happily comment.
    But where have all your Alliance friends gone?
    Maybe one was with David in Derry last night?
    Surely not.

  • granni trixie

    The people in Derry with DF were people quite rightly from Alliance branch. But if I were here (bekfast) and called upon I would have been hapoy to be there.

    Plus, not for the first time, haven’t a clue what you’re on about.

    BTW, why are you not focused on the UU? |Or on the SDLPs role in all of this. How bizzar.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Well it would of course be excellent if David Pointless travelled around without an Alliance minder.
    The story is about David screwing up royally in an email. Happy to be focussed on that.
    Also focussed on the SDLP using the email. Great stuff.
    Also focussed on SDLP using it to embarrass SF-IRA. Great stuff.

    The UUP and DUP dont seem to have much of a role in this particular story.
    This is Davids story.

  • Rory Carr

    What’s all this about “outing” FitzjamesHorse?

    Surely we are all mature enough to consider that what a fellow gets up to in the privacy of his own boudoir (or fully equipped dungeon, or whatever) is entirely his own business – so long as no children or animals (apart from gerbils, naturally) are involved.

  • Sammy Morse

    Ardmaj,

    you want these halfwits to be in charge of Justice? Like, serously?

    http://www.uup.org/news/policing-justice/policing-and-justice-archive/alliance-unlawful-comments-disgrace.php

    Granni,

    FJH, having only recently lost his Slugger virginity, doesn’t have the wit to realise the thread has died anyway; it’s only him and one other person shouting at one another to draw us out. Slugger readership on Friday evenings is dire anyway.

    FJH does vitriol brilliantly, but despite having been reading his newspaper columns since my schooldays, I have yet to see him do good natured banter once. His contributions here mirror his bitter little rants in the press – Unionists are culturally inferior untermenschen, Alliance an NIO front who all sit on quangos, the SDLP stupid and incompetent, the Shinners ugly terrorists.

    You do realise, FJH, that you and Jim Allister are the last two people in Northern Ireland still to use the phrase “SF-IRA”? Is that not even a teeny bit embarrassing to you as a nationalist? Then again, you and Allister share much in common – bitter has-beens in late middle age, with a great political future behind you, secretly consumed with fury that your fellow citizens can’t see your self-regarding genius.

  • Rory Carr

    Heres a first – I totally agree with you! except about the Gerbil.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Ah Mr Morse…..I love this thread.
    See the way I look at it .in my own good natured banter type way….is that you sir.were vigourously defending David Pointless for being right..and it didnt matter anyway….and it was the SDLPs fault anyway……and it was the BBcs fault.

    So David obviously disagrees with you as much as I do…..for David took himself off to Derry…..Boris Johnson style to apologise.

    Now that leaves you in a slightly odd position.
    Youre not the sorta person to say that you were wrong……or that David was wrong.
    What exactly was David wrong about anyway.
    Wrong to cause offence?
    Wrong to apologise?
    Wrong not to consult you on how to spin his way out of it?

    So apparently your only answer is “lets move on”

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Ah Mr Morse…..I love this thread.
    See the way I look at it .in my own good natured banter type way….is that you sir.were vigourously defending David Pointless for being right..and it didnt matter anyway….and it was the SDLPs fault anyway……and it was the BBcs fault.

    So David obviously disagrees with you as much as I do…..for David took himself off to Derry…..Boris Johnson style to apologise.

    Now that leaves you in a slightly odd position.
    Youre not the sorta person to say that you were wrong……or that David was wrong.
    What exactly was David wrong about anyway.
    Wrong to cause offence?
    Wrong to apologise?
    Wrong not to consult you on how to spin his way out of it?

    So apparently your only answer is “lets move on”

  • granni trixie

    Sammy Morse: you are in a world of yer own. Watch the agism.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    And Mr Morse, you have absolutely no clue who I am.
    Oh and I dont use SF-IRA in any perjorative form. I am just accepting thats what they are. And its probably as honest as snide “Gerry and Jesus” threads beloved of the Overclass.

    It is rather disturbing that so many young people are so bitter and twisted.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    ComradeStalin also does agism rather well.
    Alas granni trixie….we are the last taboo. Young people can mock us with impunity.
    Yet oddly Sluggers much vaunted “play the ball” rule would apply to race, creed, religion.
    At times like this I long for someone to represent us in all our Diversity….Anna Lo perhaps.

  • granni trixie

    I support your symbol of diversity, Anna Lo (wonder why she found a home in Alliance, NOT).

  • FitzjamesHorse

    granni trixie,
    we should really approah Anna Lo to support us against this age-ist bullying. 😉

  • granni trixie

    I believe that Anna Lo would have no problem,but you know that don’t u?

  • ardmaj55

    Sammy Morse… Definitely not, SM. I want the whole Stormont gravy train brought to a shuddering halt and end this procession of greedy and corrupt excuses for public servants having their noses in the trough. They’re not fit to handle the ministries they already have. How, for instance is the Public Prosecution Service going to be prevented from letting any more murderers escape justice, [like in Devlin case] if they are controlled from here?.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Indeed ardmaj55……the Devlin prosecution is another case that David Ford might have deemed “pointless” and the view might well have been shared by his supporters on the high moral ground.

  • Issac Ball

    What price justice ?
    We all know the cost is unreal and has indeed made the lawyers very rich. Watching the Derry based solicitors spoil themselves with top of the range jeeps and cars is indicative of the excess.
    Maybe we are just jealous! Never mind the infighting among the families and their supporters over the expenses allowances and trips to the various court meetings. Does it really matter, we know the truth. The British government murdered innocent civilians that day.
    When will we get an enquiry for Joe Public and compensation for me and my family for the pain and suffering we have suffered. Just the same ?

  • Alias

    “Does it really matter, we know the truth. The British government murdered innocent civilians that day.”

    Folklore is transient and has no legal status, existing only in hearts and minds. Official verdict, on the other hand, forms the historical record. Those that you know are innocent will become guilty again when you are gone. So it is important at least that the judgement of the original tribunal is discredited and that the state delivers a different verdict. Folklore also had it that Northern Ireland is no longer an integral part of the UK, but constitutional law delivers a different verdict on that too, and that is the verdict that will stand.

    Folks won’t get justice from the British state for the 29 citizens it shot on Bloody Sunday, and they should accept utter bullshit…

  • Alias

    Add “?” to the end of that last sentence. 😉

  • wee buns

    wash your troubles away…hey hey hey

  • ardmaj55

    It’s a good question to ask Ford. Is the trial that has just ended of those who murdereed Thomas Devlin, in Ford’s eyes, pointless, given that his friends in the PPS deemed the death of Thomas Devlin not worthy of investigation? Does Ford think that the Shankill Butchers should really have gone to jail? Does Ford think like Jim Allister obviously does that the Greysteel savage Torrens Knight was really that bad a person?
    I think we need to know where David Ford draws the line on murder.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Well ardmaj55,
    The fact is that Alliance sycophants have got away for years at sneering at politicians from DUP, UUP, SDLP, SF-IRA who have actually been running departments such as Education, Health whatever.

    We have these people telling us for months how much more suited to the task is Saint David Ford…..and yet BEFORE he has even taken office, Ford is revealed as insensitive or worse.

    Had Jeffrey Donaldson or Gerry Kelly…or any politician outside the Alliance Party said anything so crass, the Alliance spinmeisters on Slugger O’Toole would have gone into overdrive……now of course they dare not show their faces.

    Yesterday we were told he had done nothing wrong.
    But seemingly Ford himself believed he had screwed up.
    So he apologised.
    Which means the Alliance spinmeisters have been reduced to incoherent bluster about anyone who wont “move on”.
    While my preference is for the UUP and others indeed NOT to endorse this shabby Policing and Justice Bill……I daresay that it WILL happen.

    This is but a foretaste of the callousness which David Ford will display in his Ministry and even more regretfully a foretaste of the spin which will accompany his decisions.
    I sincerely hope Ford fails as a Minister. I have been criticised for this (but only by Alliance types). Now it can clearly be seen that he deserves to fail.

  • ardmaj55

    FJH It still looks like SF will mintain their support for the ‘pointless bearded one’ to get this post, because they need P&J devolved before the westminster election. Like desperately.

  • ardmaj55

    FJH It still looks like SF will maintain their support for the ‘pointless bearded one’ to get this post, because they need P&J devolved before the westminster election. Like desperately.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Im not so sure that they “need” it.
    As I have said it wont be a disaster if the plug is pulled on the P & J or even on the whole Stormont nonsense.
    But its funny how the alliance types were telling us for years that it was all a sham……but now with their man so close to getting his backside on an executive chair, it has all suddenly got a meaning.

  • Comrade Stalin

    FJH,

    You’re now being disingenuous by putting words in people’s mouths. I had anticipated along with most people, including yourself, that Ford would end up apologizing for his bad choice of words. There’s nothing in any of my contributions to this discussion that Ford’s apology contradicts. I didn’t at any stage seek to justify his use of the word “pointless”, but I think it is entirely correct to question the whole raison d’etre around Saville.

    The magic of anonymity (or maybe not, in your case) is that nobody needs to know what your age is, and nobody would know if you didn’t keep mentioning it. At times you remind me of Uncle Albert in Only Fools, other times Captain Ahab. Your comment suggesting that Ford would have gone along with a decision not to prosecute the Devlin case shows what a nasty little man you are. This country needs people like you like a hole in the head.

    granni, I don’t think FJH is strategic at all, he’s just a bitter old man, which is a form of words most of us were quite happy to use to describe Ian Paisley prior to his recent epiphany.

    ardmaj, the justice system that we’ve presently got, which would have let the Devlin murderer go free, is the one that is a result of direct rule. We need to fix it with local accountability. As I’ve said often enough, I think Ford is the best person for that job but there are other people who would do just fine at it. Ford’s qualities obviously include competence, but he also isn’t bound by the sectarian imperative of the other four parties, and I think this fresh perspective will do a better job of making devolution work.

    Can you tell me what you mean by the “his friends in the PPS” comment please ?

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Oh ComradeStalin,
    You distance yourself from David Ford while simultaneously agreeing with him.
    Make your mind up.
    If Ford made a bad choice of words and apologised for that………and you believe the Saville exercise is “pointless” then you go much further that the deeply humbled new model Ford.

    It would appear rather obvious to me that you were agreeing with his original stance.
    He aplogises which pulls the rug from under your sycophantic feet.
    To quote you “you and I” believed
    “that Ford would end up apologizing for his bad choice of words”

    So thats what you think Ford has done.
    Has he not told the relatives that there IS a point.
    It was just a “political” apology therefore. The least that David Pointless could do.

    If you are saying that YOU believe that there is a doubt about the whole “raison detre” round Saville, then of course thats your view. But claiming that it is Fords view and that he only apologised for the words is undermining Fords “sincerity”.
    As things stand you still believe theres no point to Saville is legitimate while your Great Leader has been forced to say that there is a point.
    Although I hate to use the words “Alliance” and “Ford” in the same sentence.

    As to the Devlin case.
    I have no idea. What I do know is that Ford has not covered himself in glory this week on issues of Justice this week. He screwed up. He knows it and at least he is mature enough to accept it.
    We must therefore view his concept of Justice with a concerned eye.
    He shows every sign of being a creature of established civil servants…the Alliance party is of course the NIOs favourite Party.

    If as we both think….he will become Justice Minister, you can look forward to many posts where you are on the back foot about decisions he is implementing.
    You could at least learn to defend him better.

  • ardmaj55

    Comrade Stalin 21 I know that the system of justice can be amended and improved here, t’s just that with the track record of Stormont these last three years, with it’s sclerotic functioning, I’m not confident anything would change with the mutual vetoes. I meant by Fords ‘friends in the PPS, the cosy club of civil servants and jobsworths who have been so complacent in their well renumerated positions, they don’t want to rock the boat. I’m not accusing Ford of sectarian motives in either of the two holes that he dug himself into, but in the PPS there might just be too many Free P, or DUP types in that body.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Fitz old bean, it’ll be a long time before I take PR advice from a certified plum duff. I appreciate that you need to liven up your otherwise evidently dull and decrepit existence by spending a beautiful day attacking the Alliance Party with the kind of vigour normally reserved for one’s nemesis, but I have no desire to play your silly word games. Your opinion on what I or Sammy Morse or anyone else might have said doesn’t matter a jot to me. The public will make their own minds up. It’s not my job, by the way, to justify or explain everything Alliance does. I’m not an employee or an official. I don’t work in the media, or politics, or PR. I certainly have no need to justify myself to you.

    I’m glad you’ve also admitted that your observation about Ford and the Devlin case was made-up. This means that it’s essentially libel, and theoretically, a person spreading such lies could find themselves exposed to legal action. I don’t think that would be necessary, though, because it’s plain to everyone you’re the kind of person who seems to revel in death – and the incompetency and/or corruption that sometimes arises during its investigation – because it gives you more ammunition to pursue your single-minded spittle-flecked agenda.

    ardmaj,

    I can’t really respond to what you’re saying except to say that I think Alliance will be different, and that they deserve one chance to prove it. I’m confident that the justice minister won’t turn out to be a stooge – in fact I think it’s very unfair of you to imply that he is somehow close to the establishment – but if he does, the party can rightly expect a serious kicking for it.

    And I think your insinuation that the PPS is broken because there is too many Prods in it is blatantly sectarian. Sorry.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    ComradeStalin,
    There are times when a lesser man than myself would think you dont like me very much. Frankly I can live with it.
    But for a teenager who doesnt care what I think …you spend a lot of time telling me.

  • ardmaj55

    CS 24 You’ll note that put Free Ps or DUP. That’s a specific group i cited, who are notoriously sectarian.[Some Free Ps shun other Protestant church people] The rest of the protestant community, I’ve no quarrel with, just to be clear.

  • granni trixie

    Just in from great night out(I’m a foodie) so got my perspective back, and was inspired to look up ‘trolling’ on wikipedia. If I understand it properly its a bit like felon setting…as applies to you, FJH?.

    Everybody:NO MORE FEEDING THE TROLL
    (unless I misunderstand the concept).

  • FitzjamesHorse

    well granni trixie, I can hardly be surprised. 🙂

  • Alias

    Fitz, I’m being instructed by Alliance party members to ignore the message because the messenger is (a) old, (b) bitter, and (c) a troll.

    Fortunately, like the vast majority of the voting public, I simply ignore Alliance party members.

  • Granni Trixie

    You may not like the message or the messenger but it is not for you to choose who has an opinion and who does not. Beginning to think your meal gave you indigestion!

    Alias

    Well that covers most of us.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Oh eventually the thread will be closed down.

    Usually Alliance types do well out of the discomfort of others…..and more power to them for that.
    But the “lets move on message” is amusing. As well as the personal abuse levelled at me. So much for not “playing the man”

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Alias,
    I dont actually think that granni trixies message was meant for you. LOL
    It was a rescue attempt on a much younger party colleague of hers.
    “stop feeding the troll” might be interpreted as “stop digging when you are in a hole”.

  • Alias

    Fitz, fair ’nuff… I must have been confused by granni trixie addressing her imperative to “Everybody”.

    “Well that covers most of us.” – pippakin

    I’m occasionally B and C but not yet A. Just because you can give an eyewitness account of the Easter Rising… 😉

  • iluvni

    From another thread…

    9.I think we are lucky to have somebody of David Ford’s stature to take up the job. I only know his public persona but he has always impressed me not just for his integrity which is obvious but for his analytical abilities. I have noticed that his interventions always seemed to be for the good of the process rather than for any party advantage.

    It’s going to be a very difficult job and I hope the four bigger parties will back him 100% and encourage their supporters to do the same.

    Posted by Henry94 on Feb 25, 2010 @ 08:37 PM

    :o)

  • granni trixie

    Anyone’s age does not bother me (and I deplore the evident agism which constantly crops up here) but I do wish those who use the term “Alliance types” were more self aware.

    When I grasped what trolling meant (amazed to see it has a vast literature) I instantly saw it applied to contributers here but am sorry thaT IN a state of illumination I presumed to alert others, that’s all I meant to do.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    granni trixie.
    Ive been called much worse …even on this thread.
    But I think Ive also referred to DUP types, SDLP types and SF-IRA types.
    Probably UUP types as well.
    Probably “types” is a word I use to much. And (for once) when I use the word I dont particuarly intend to irritate.
    Rather I am attempting to include members and apologists for a Party.