Facebook shuts down anti-Roma page

After four days Facebook has shut down the anti-Roma page which had attracted nearly 16,000 members.

  • villager

    Conall is my hero.

  • Panic, these ones like it up em.

    I am glad that a facebook page like this has been taken down. Below are some of my views on the immigration issue.

    I am going to go down possibly dangerous territory here but goverments have a duty to govern.

    Has immigration been governed in Ireland or Britain these last years.

    Has either goverments done any research to see how much immigration a country or populace can absorb.

    Whether we like to admit it or not there is a limit somewhere be that 1 million/10 million/100 million

    As I have said immigration has not been governed. Now I have been an immigrant myself so I understand the immigrants circumstances. Surprisingly the people that suffer the most from too much immigration are the immigrants that are already there.

    I am not a racist/bigot or little Irelander or little Britisher but I understand a lot about this subject matter.

    The kind of people that are in competition for jobs and or resources with immigrants are not the kind of people that get a platform on our tv screens or radio or media.

    There is no desire to entertain the pressure’s or strains of the local populace that are in competion with immigrants.

    Ours is afterall a Capitalist system and supply and demand of labour as well as goods has a major affect on the value placed on it.

  • joeCanuck

    Yes, Panic, you are correct; you have entered somewhat dangerous territory.
    Neither the USA or Canada would be as successful as we are if we hadn’t had, and still do, have large numbers of immigrants. Study after study in Canada (can’t speak for the States) show that immigrants here make a net positive contribution; less likely to place demands on social services as one example, and keep the population steady by supplying young healthy workers. Canada is pretty generous when it comes to allowing elderly parents to join their sons and daughters eventually but even that doesn’t put a large strain on community resources.
    Now maybe Ireland is different. I don’t know.

  • villager

    Which immigrants are you talking about joe? There are huge differences between different groups, European, Chinese, Hispanic, etc. I hope you’re not trying to suggest that the economic activities of selling roses to drunks, begging, horrendous busking and selling newspapers at busy road junctions are essential to our economy.

  • David Crookes

    “No man under thirty is so dead that his heart won’t stir at the sight of a gypsy’s camp,” said Robert Louis Stevenson. Ignoring the yelps of those who get £72,000 per annum for using the word ‘post-colonial’ at least once in every sentence, let us introduce our children to tziganology by putting George Borrow’s Lavengro on the school syllabus.

    Some years ago a group of Roma families settled on a site in Portstewart. Heap rage all round: but my old Sunday School teacher, who was in his late eighties at the time, went to see them all, shook hands with many of them, welcomed them to Portstewart, gave each person a New Testament, and was asked back on the following day for the most spectacular dinner. That’s the way to treat other human beings.

    Well done, Conall. The most awful thing about haters of other people, aside from the hurt that they cause, is that they want a homogenous country in which everyone is exactly like themselves.

  • villager

    David, as one of those haters I’d like to say I have no problem with most immigrants and have lived and worked with eastern europeans. If you can’t see the particular problems associated with the Roma you are being willfully blind.

  • seosamh

    I haven’t seen the Facebook page referred to, but as I understand it, the issue that Conall is raising is not immigration but racist propaganda on Facebook.

    Having said that, it would appear to me that the major political parties in Ireland and England have failed miserably to articulate their immigration policies to their respective citizens. In England, the BNP have been able to exploit this weakness to their advantage.

    In Ireland, north and south, the racists have not yet found a political vehicle to articulate their hate – mongering at the electoral level. Irish political parties need to be careful that they do not provide such a vehicle, by their failure to formulate and articulate an immigration policy that is understood and supported by their citizens.

    Mick, what say you open a thread on this issue like the Lisbon Treaty discussions? I am sure Conall would have lots to say on the subject.

  • Alias

    Joe, America and Canada has very tightly controlled immigration policies wherein they only allow entry into their respective countries according to the labour market needs of their respective economies. America allowed 10 million immigrants into the country in the last decade (circa 3% of the population). That sounds like a lot but compared to Ireland, which has a population that is considerably smaller, we allowed the per capita equivalent of 50 million immigrants or circa 15% of the population (some estimates put it as high as 20% and a low as 10%). If America had our EU-spawned policy of uncontrolled immigration and our welfare system, then it too would now be suffering our social problems of severe drains on our welfare system with spending on health care, education, social housing, and welfare payments accounting for 60% of government revenue.

    That is a very different policy and practice from uncontrolled immigration that applies between Member States in the EU. No economy needs beggars, Big Issue sellers, thieves or an unemployable Welfare-dependent subclass.

    Yet this eurotrash can enter the country at their sole discretion (from 2011) because the Member States are in the process of merging into one state, so said eurotrash now have the manufactured European citizenship that acts as a substitute for the missing European demos, thereby giving them as much rights to live in France or Germany as they have to live in whichever Eastern European hovel they escaped from.

    Still, aren’t you lucky that you have Europhiles in the Assembly to cover-up the symptoms of uncontrolled immigration rather than address the root causes?

  • David Crookes

    Villager, I’m sorry if you think I’m being sanguine. There is a big problem with Roma culture (observance of the law), but given the relatively small number of people involved I wonder if it’s right to wish that the problem would simply go away. We need strong-minded people who will deal robustly with the problem, not highly-paid multiculturalists who will write reports, and attend conferences, and (as Marcionite was recently courageous enough to say in another context) live in areas where the problem does not arise.

    I have seen for myself how serious the problem is in most of the East European nations, but I reckon that the small Roma population of NI can be worked with. For fifteen years or more it has been terribly fashionable for NI schools and churches to send parties of workers to Romania. (For a while it became almost a teenage rite of passage to do things in Romania.) Maybe our schools and churches should think of working with the Roma people who live among us. It would be less romantic, but it would save them a great deal of money.

    Of course the bottom line for everyone who comes to live in our country must be: if you want to live here, keep our laws, and if you don’t want to keep our laws, go away. Multiculturalists love to use the word ‘enriching’, but it’s hard to tell a farmer that he’s being enriched when his hens are being stolen. Thanks for your intrepid and honest posting.

  • Marcionite

    I suffered at the hands of a minority two years ago in Saintfield. They threatened to kill my partner because we called the police over their anti social behavour. They catcalled us, tried to breakdown our door etc. The police did absolutely nothing. I am sorry but I hate that minority who are protected by the liberal ivory tower dwellers.

    Oh, did I forget to mention that these thugs were from the Teenager minority, all white and Northern Irish.

    The above is not allegorical, it’s actually true. My point is that there are good people and bad people. when we turn s blind eye to the ill doings of any minority, be they indiginous or new, we end up on the road to either liberal fascism or traditional bootboy fascism. Both are as bad as each other

  • Mrazik

    Well, living in the Holylands, if you asked me to choose between the Roma and the feral youth of Tyrone, I would choose the former.

  • David Crookes

    Thanks a lot, Mrazik. That is the sort of thing that our MLAs should be dealing with. In comparison with what you’re having to tolerate, the whole parading business is worse than trivial.

  • Marcionite

    David Crookes, you speak common sense on a wide range if issues. This one is no exception. As for the other thread you alllude to, the tone of opposition to me from the Quango Defenders was bordering on threatening. I found this interesting after a while and I tell you why

    ever notice how sniffy class or race warriors are when faced with the reality of the everyday life and behaviour of those they defend ? One only has to see Austin Mitchell in C4’s “Tower Block of Commons” for proof. Oh I forgot, that great socialite, sorry, socialist Hazel “we’re all middle class now” Blears.

    I too find the Julians and Jemima’s pilgrimage to Romania or the Habitat scheme both patronising and condescending. It’s the tick the culture box culture that seems to epitomise most of today’s thinking. If they really want to help, then leave and devote your lives to helping otherwise your trip amounts to little more than a topic at the dinner party.

    I digress.

    On the topic itself, yeah, how thugs just itch for and love to find a cause that gives them an excuse for violence and thuggery under the brolly of law and order and culture.

  • villager

    The ‘Teenager minority’ and the ‘feral youth of Tyrone’ are a part of our society, by and large they grow up, get jobs and complain about about lawless teenagers. The Roma are a completely different problem, of an inter-generational kind, and our government has taken the entirely avoidable step of allowing them free access to our country. It’s shocking.

  • Mrazik

    The Roma are a completely different problem, of an inter-generational kind, and our government has taken the entirely avoidable step of allowing them free access to our country. It’s shocking.

    Posted by villager on Feb 15, 2010 @ 11:00 PM

    It’s called the European Union, Villager. British and Irish criminals went on mass to the south of Spain and exported their violence as well. They’re a damn sight worse than a few Roma clans.

  • Gaudi

    It is great to know the facebook page has been taken down. Immigration is a problem in many areas, especially now with the economic situation and politicians need to really be honest about the implications of rapid immigration on health and social care, schools, social housing etc. But this kind of crap on facebook is just fueling hatred and can only lead to violent attacks as so often is the case. I’m a bit alarmed about the stereotypical image of Roma people in some posts. I have heard many similar things said about Irish people living in London. We’re drunks, lazy, always fighting and begging etc. Incidently, can anyone tell me what are the procedures for getting a facebook page such as this removed? Is it based on content of page or does it depend on the number of complaints facebook receive?

  • David Crookes

    Marcionite, if there was one thing that would make me go into politics, it would be the horror that decent people in the Holyland and elsewhere are having to live with nearly every night. The constitutional question has been put to bed by the GFA. It’s time for our MLAs to deal with feral youth. We can’t wait for feral youths to grow up and turn respectable, because their places will be taken by more feral youths. I want to live in a country where feral youths are afraid to break the law. At the moment old ladies are being terrorized in their own houses every Saturday night by feral youths who act with perfect impunity. On the following morning, when the old ladies are being driven to church, they see the police heroically checking the speeds of elderly churchgoers. (If the weather is good.)

  • The Raven

    Darn it, is this the post of the day?? Aren’t the masses going to get a chance to have a pop at the rates??

  • Marcionite

    Mrazik, I’m with you dude. I’m from Tyrone, I know what culchies are like (cue my derogatory term “culchie” being equated with racism from The Usual Peddlars of Illogic, they’re so pleasingly predictable)

    these agricultural friends of ours from the nether world of Tyrone can only really be appreciated when observing them from your jeep and binoculars while driving through their natural habitat ie grey villages. Here are the 10 Commandments as adhered to by the Tyronese.

    Thou Must Wear GAA Tribal Wear
    They wear the tribal colours , red and white of the Tyrone GAA. No other attire is allowed except the ubiquitous Checked Shirt from Dunnes in Omagh (bought during
    mammys big day out to the big town hi). Wearing anything else incurs wrath and being called a poof.

    Thou Must Have A Shaved Head
    Only Prods and poofs (or is that pooves?) have hair of a combable length. Failure to observe renders you being called a big woman

    Thou Must Pretend to be a Pioneer to Ma and Da
    Pioneers for the benefit if those from the heretic side of christianity, are those who abstain from alcolhol. It’s the in thing in a large part of the Tyrone. Drink Is evil. If your son is found to be drinking, it’s the tradition for a huge argument to ensue with son being accused of being a shame to the family. Note; pre IRA ceasefire, such a blacksheep could obtain redemption by shooting a policeman or any unarmed Prod. Doing this would get a GAA ground named after you

    so when such sons go out to Kellys Bar to watch the Indians or Luvbug II, they must get paralytic and get into fights and smash things

    Thou Must Stand at the back of Mass and look Bored
    Tyrone youth , fearful of not being seen as a patriot, go out if their way on a Saturday night around 6pm (yes, RC sabbath observance starts on 6pm Saturday, Carlsberg don’t do churches but if we did…) to really hurt the Queen and be true Irishmen while trying to catch a glimpse of Aoifes crack of arse as she kneels down
    such men stand at the back for quick exit after communion , just in time for Luvbug to come on stage

    Thou Must Employ Klingon Mating Rituals
    For Paudhraic to woo Berny or Dympna, he must stand outside her house and grunt loudly or bark. Said lady sees this as primeval and thus worthy of protecting their yet to be born 10 children. Or said gentleman wanders around the streets shouting out for directions to the Nurses Party

    Thou Must Play Soldiers Song at end of Hooley
    What else could end an evening of mono cultural inarticulate sexual frustration than a nice rendition of drunken fascism, The National Anthem. This is followed by smashing the Huns shop windows except the one owned by the burger joint as it’s owned by a left footer so leave em boys alone hi I wanta wile feed hi

    Thou must

  • The Raven

    **Laugh out LOUD!**

  • The Raven

    **Laugh out LOUD!**

  • granni trixie

    2 thoughts re the above:

    1. It is a mystery to me why some people have it in for people who stand in the middle of the road (my own favoured political position, as it happens) to sell the Tele.

    I admire these people – who would do it if they did not have to to earn a living?

    2. I wonder what people in England made of (largely) young juvenile delinquents exiled by the IRA? Exporting our problems.
    Ring any bells?

  • Comrade Stalin

    It’s time for our MLAs to deal with feral youth. We can’t wait for feral youths to grow up and turn respectable, because their places will be taken by more feral youths.

    Hear hear. It’s not that all youths are feral, by the way. But yes, we need to deal with this problem.

    Specifically I’d like to see curfew powers. Specifically, powers to place curfews on certain areas at certain times, or on certain people, on the word of a small panel of senior local police officers, subject (like everything else) to the oversight of the Police Ombudsman. And I’d also like to understand why anti-social behaviour orders are so little-used around here. As far as I can tell, the police won’t support issuing one without eyewitness testimony, which is hard to obtain given the intimidation factor.

    If there’s one thing I’d like to see a local justice minister doing, it’s making more powers available to police and to the courts to deal with this crap.

    Marconite, when I’m complaining about problems caused by the little shits I have to tell the police not to come to the house. I’ve heard of other people who have had windows put in etc. True, it’s not life threatening, but it gets very expensive very quickly.

  • David Crookes

    Tremendous piece of satire (#19)! Makes the feral youths sound like a mixture of ‘Wild Boys’ and ‘Me Mammy’. Reminds me of a famous lambeg drum which bore the following legend: THERE’S NONE AS GOOD AS I AM, THE COCK OF EAST TYRONE.

    Our MLAs will have to start leading and stop following. If every form of ‘sectarian’ trouble stopped tomorrow, we’d still have a major problem with feral youth. In the short term it will need boot-camps: in the longer term it will need civic duties, like tree-planting and canal restoration. We must also make parents take responsibility for their children, compel children do what they’re told in school, encourage neighbourhood watches, and stop manufacturing new syndromes every year. If we’re going to have victims’ commissioners, let’s have a commissioner for decent people, who are the chief victims of feral youth.

    Why should any thug be allowed to disturb our peace and happiness? Here’s a slogan for the New Sensible Party when it gets up and running. SMASH FERAL YOUTH.

  • Immigration is about perception. If you live in a crowded city and you see immigrants jumping to the top of the housing list you dont like it. Politicians say it does not happen but the locals know it does. It has taken too long for politicians to even allow the subject, now everyone is angry.

    I remember when no one would dream of voting BNP, they really were beyond the pale, now they have a dozen or more councillors and are still growing.

    As for the poor kids the IRA felt free to boot out of an entire country. It reminds me of nothing so much as the way the Church booted youngsters out of their ‘prison schools’. Many of them ended up isolated, no family or friends. Is it any wonder some of them got drunk and stayed drunk. I would have.

    IN the UK the NHS is not a bottomless pit and nor is it here in Ireland. We do need a clear, honest plan and we have not seen it yet.

    Begging is already illegal, but when was the last time one of these ‘buskers or rose sellers’ were arrested. We must not treat different people differently, but we should enforce the law.

    As for feral youths of course they should be dealt with, quickly and ruthlessly – by fining or imprisoning the parents!

  • BryanS

    Marc
    Absolutely priceless. Thank you for making me laugh out loud!

  • Alias

    Pippy, those would be ‘mainland’ British politicians since immigration policy is an excepted matter, thereby excluding the local hacks in the Assembly from having any input. They just administer British rule and do not decide its national policy in such matters. Not that the other puppet parliament decides it either, since immigration policy between EU states is an ‘excepted’ matter with sovereignty residing with the other ‘mainland’ i.e. the EU. So the local puppet parliament is powerless and the other puppet parliament is also powerless unless it repeals the European Communities Act 1972. That is why the hacks in both parliaments ignore an issue that they can do nothing about.

  • Marcionite

    Comrade Stalin and Mr Crookes, I’m 100% behind u both. Feral youth is a cancer. I’ve suffered at their hands on several occasions

  • The problem the UK and Irish govt have when it comes to immigration anywhere on these islands, is once the immigrant is here he has absolutely no problem popping up wherever on these islands he chooses.

    I agree the EU laws are a problem but they can and have been over ruled when it suits a particular govt to do so. Immigration is a problem throughout the EU largely because the unelected EU bureaucrats have been empire building for years.

  • Skintown Lad

    These Tyrone people who allegedly cause havoc round the Holylands – they’re students, right? So they are actually adults in tertiary education? “Feral youths” is not really apt. They sound like students you get in any city, who steal traffic cones etc, except with a nasty element. Why do our students have a nasty element that other cities don’t have?

  • Skintown Lad

    ‘Why do our students have a nasty element that other cities dont have’

    All cities have ‘nasty elements’ among the young, the offenders can be anything: the unemployed, fully employed and indeed students. As for the youngsters in the north. I would say they have the best excuse in the world: they grew up in a ‘nasty element’!

  • Skintown Lad

    Pippakin – when i was a student ten years ago there was fair amount of disorderly behaviour at night, but it never descended into threatening local people with violence. i know all cities have nasty elements among their young people but it’s not usually so prevalent among tertiary level students. they’re usually better at engaging in high jinks without any accompanying threatening behaviour. for some reason these ‘tyrone’ students seem to have a different approach, which, as you suggest, can only be a failing of their background.

  • Marcionite

    seriously, as someone who has grown in Tyrone, not everyone is a thug but those who are thugs, take the biscuit completely. I witnessed a tractor being brought tovthe grounds of St Enda’s GAA in Omagh 1990 and used to hunt down a love rival. It was nasty stuff

    It’s not confined to Tyrone, there is a fundamental strain of aggression and love of wanton destruction and vandalism amongst agricultural groups. Ask any hostelry who has had the misfortune to entertain Ulster Young Farmers. I ve heard of the temp bar being abandoned like a ship by staff and left to the destructive hands of the young farmers

    I think it’s overly traditional oppressive religious upbringing that denegrates basic human sexual desire. Such constraint acts like a volcano.

    Look at the map if the world and see if u can spot a correlation between nations which r sexually frustated and nations with a terrorist problem. Hmmm

  • Keithbelfast

    “Why do our students have a nasty element that other cities don’t have? ”

    The holylands has a serious problem of over crowding. it also has a less diverse mix of students that other uni areas might have.

    Limiting the amount of student housing in the holyland, pushing the balance back to the residential side and spreading the belfast student population across the city would fix the serious problem.

    for the rest of the student anti social behaviour, i’d electrified traffic cones.

  • Skintown Lad,

    I know it is a greater problem and I think the only solution is to spread the crap around. Separated from like minded cohorts those most inclined to trouble would almost certainly calm down.

    Marconite.

    Oddly enough I agree with you!

    It seems to me we have a serious excess of testosterone in some young lads, and the kind of pup who would think it clever to go after someone, not just with his pals, but with a tractor! is unlikely to be the first choice of any girl with a working grey cell.

  • JaneJeffers

    Pippakin

    The evolution of humanity so far makes it clear that the worst men can find any number of females willing to have them.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    It amazes me that Queens University prides itself on its “Conflict Resolution” skills. Point any Politics lecturer in the direction of Jerusalem, Cairo and Damascus and they are happy to go.

    On the other hand mention conflict resolution in Jerusalem STREET, Damascus STREET and Cairo STREET and the lazy sods arent interested.

    Gin and tonics all round Vice Chancellor!

  • JaneJeffers

    Too true! And these days there are the ‘quaintly’ entitled Ladettes!

    However, on the whole I think most girls look for something between the ears to marry, young, upwardly mobile girls at Uni do not need or want the college yob for life!

  • Mrazik

    On the other hand mention conflict resolution in Jerusalem STREET, Damascus STREET and Cairo STREET and the lazy sods arent interested.

    Gin and tonics all round Vice Chancellor!

    Posted by FitzjamesHorse on Feb 16, 2010 @ 04:26 PM

    I’m afraid that Kyber Pass would be a more appropriate street name in the area.

    It was probably unfair to single out Tyrone, but, as I am from a neighbouring county it seemed like the right thing to do at the time.

    It always struck me how the male “students” of the Holylands in their GAA tops are the closet we come to the “jocks” of American university fame (the cliche at least of college footballers). I wonder if our local versions have their own fraternities?

    When I was a university in Auld Reekie the equivalent would have been the rugby team which, ironically enough, seemed to be made up largely of Irish people.

  • Mrazik

    Sorry: Khyber

  • cups

    I don’t think that there was anything racist about the facebook page at all. If you go out in Belfast city centre at night you’re likely to be harassed by these rose-sellers. They take advantage of the young, the stupid and the drunk. I reckon that’s fair enough and you have to expect that, but then it’s fair enough to dislike the people that do that. I dislike the rose-sellers just like I dislike rude bouncers, drunk and rowdy lads shouting at me, and waiting for a a taxi in a depot while the people who got there just a minute ago seem to get one right away. That’s just town at night I suppose. In a way you could say that the Roma are fitting in quite well because they’re just as bad as everyone else here who you meet at night.

    If you insist on treating all comments directed towards rose-sellers as if they were directed to Roma people in Belfast in general, I still don’t agree that’s they’re all that offensive. Does anyone think that there is a huge profit margin for these people? It’s not going to lift them out of poverty. Anyone who gives them money encourages them to spend even more time walking the streets of Belfast at night, often with their children. If everyone just refused to give them their money, they’d probably try to find something else to do, hopefully something safer, more comfortable and less confrontational.

    Instead of directing your anger at facebook pages representing what a lot of people think, and which are not racist, why not concentrate on all the trade unions, who joined demonstrations last year in support of the Roma people here, but don’t give a shit about their employment chances?

    I was really annoyed at Conall saying that this is a racist opinion to have. A lot of people in Belfast agreed with the facebook page, and calling them racist can push them further away from your position.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    MrAzick,
    There is a distinct hierarchy to wearing GAA tops at QUB.
    The wearers of Armagh, Tyrone and Derry shirts are really from those counties just fans.
    The wearers of Cork, Clare or Galway shirts mean they have been on holiday there.
    Wearers of Westmeath shirts are saying my boyfriend/girlfriend is from Westmeath.
    The REAL jocks are the ones who wear CLUB shirts from teams in Down, Tyrone and Fermanagh.
    For added authenticity they have the number 4 or 22 prominently displayed.
    The wearing of a GAA shirt is the coded way of saying “I am Catholic”.
    As wearing an Ulster rugby shirt or Norn Iron soccer shirt indicates “I am a Protestant”.

    These coded messages can be picked up on posters at Student Union Election Time.

  • Panic, these ones like it up em.

    All this Jersey wearing suggests the behaviour of immature young people

    Which is what students are.

    Now when you get too pot bellied old fellas and old wans wearing sporting Jersey tis then that I get to wondering.