“neither honest nor transparent”

In addition to the interview with Áine Tyrell in the Sunday Tribune, Suzanne Breen spelt out the detail of something I mentioned in the Liam Adams Timeline. Despite Gerry Adams’ claims of consistency and his party’s vice-President’s claimed commitment to revealing the “full facts”. From the Sunday Tribune article

Gerry Adams appeared on [UTV’s Insight Special] saying he had believed Áine from the moment in 1987 that she told him what his brother had done. He had always supported her, he said. Tyrell’s interpretation differed. She insisted he had failed her. But it wasn’t Tyrell’s words that meant this story was far from over. It was what Gerry Adams did and didn’t tell reporter Chris Moore that would lead to claims of a huge cover-up by the Sinn Féin president.

Continued

Adams told Moore that, after hearing Tyrell’s allegations, he’d been estranged from his brother for 15 years. Two days later, the Sunday Tribune proved that was far from true. We published photographs of the Sinn Féin president at Liam’s wedding to his second wife almost 10 years after he had been told Liam was a paedophile.

To attend a family funeral, where Liam might also have been present, would have been understandable. But to attend Liam’s wedding – to stand smiling and relaxed with him at the reception wearing a green Saoirse ribbon for IRA prisoners – was another matter. Gerry Adams obviously had a very odd understanding of the word ‘estrangement’.

But that wasn’t all we revealed. Gerry Adams never told UTV’s Chris Moore – on tape or in any pre-recording conversations – that his brother Liam had been in Sinn Féin. His account to Moore was neither honest nor transparent.

It’s worth emphasising, despite what subsequent UTV reports suggest, that there was no mention of Liam Adams’ membership of Sinn Féin in the UTV Insight programme and Slugger understands that Chris Moore has confirmed that there was no mention of that membership, nor of the prospect of Liam Adams becoming a Dáil candidate in County Louth in 1997, in any of the conversations he had with Gerry Adams.

As the Sunday Tribune article adds

Two days later, the Sunday Tribune revealed that Liam Adams had been a high-profile Sinn Féin member in Dundalk in the 1990s. So senior was Liam Adams in Sinn Féin that he had sought the nomination to be the party’s Co Louth candidate in the 1997 Dáil election, but had failed. The nomination was secured by local veteran republican Owenie Hanratty at a selection convention in the Imperial Hotel in October 1996.

And we exposed something else. UTV had reported that Liam Adams had worked for youth projects in Belfast. The Sunday Tribune revealed he’d also worked for a youth project in the Muirhevnamor estate in Dundalk.

Hours after our revelations, RTE broadcast an interview Gerry Adams gave to RTÉ’s Tommie Gorman. Gerry Adams admitted Liam had been in Sinn Féin. He also told Gorman how his own father, Gerry senior, had been a paedophile and had abused family members. This revelation successfully diverted attention away from questions the Sinn Féin president would have had to answer about his own behaviour.

The media focused on Gerry Adams, the victim. It was strange that Adams had never once mentioned – on tape or in pre-recording meetings – his father’s paedophilia to Chris Moore in the UTV programme when it would have been entirely relevant. To reveal it in a broadcast later smacked of news management and damage limitation.

The day after the Gorman interview, Adams told RTÉ that, on hearing Liam was in Sinn Féin, he “moved immediately” to stop his Dáil nomination and “to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin… I moved very, very quickly”.

The following Sunday we printed material that proved that he was lying. We published photographs of Gerry Adams canvassing in June in the 1997 Dáil election campaign with the brother he believed was a paedophile and from whom he was allegedly estranged. This canvass occurred eight months after Gerry Adams said Liam had been “dumped” from the party.

Another point worth noting about the version of events given to the UTV Insight programme is that, as Áine Tyrell revealed in the Sunday Tribune interview, she had “heard Liam was working in youth projects in west Belfast but not which ones. I repeatedly raised this with Gerry.”

But as she also revealed,

“I didn’t know Liam was in Sinn Féin but had Gerry bothered to tell me, I would have waived my anonymity without hesitation. I’d have accompanied Gerry to meet his colleagues in Sinn Féin, to talk to the ard chomhairle about what Liam had done to me so they could expel him from the party. But Gerry never gave me that option.”

And in today’s Belfast Telegraph Suzanne Breen relates Áine Tyrell’s contradiction of another of Gerry Adams’ claims

On Radio Ulster’s Nolan Show yesterday Gerry Adams said that during meetings: “I told Aine that if she wanted to go public on these issues I would sit on a platform with her. I told her that if she wanted to go to the police, I’d go to the police with her. These matters were reported to social services and the RUC at the time.”

However, this account is directly contradicted by Aine. “Gerry never said he would sit on a public platform with me. It wasn’t Gerry who went to the RUC or to the PSNI about Liam, it was myself and my mother who went to the RUC in 1987, and myself who in 2006 asked the PSNI to re-open the case.”

Then there are the ongoing questions about Liam Adams’ continued involvement in Sinn Féin after Gerry Adams, as the new version of events has it, “spoke to his brother and told him to leave” – “there is no record whatsoever”

Meanwhile, the BBC reports that the European Arrest Warrant is on its way to Dublin, via London.

, ,

  • Pete is your obbsession with this in the interest of the alledged victim or is it purely personal ?

  • tacapall

    Pete give me that chip on your shoulder and I will make you an armchair out of it. It must be the size of a tree. This is like groundhog day over and over, you need some professional help with this.

  • Marlaghman

    er……..Gerry peeping around the door in one room and through the split of another door er………?
    what was that all about?
    My mind is working overtime

  • Ulick

    Out of curiosity and because I know the Mick and Co have a grá for such things, I did a text analysis/word density check on ‘www.sluggerotoole.com’. Some very interesting results (or not) relating to how the ‘Gerry Adams story’ has come to dominate Slugger.

    Keyword Density
    Keyword Count Density

    ireland 40 0.94%
    northern 38 0.9%
    irish 33 0.78%
    adams 27 0.64%
    sinn 25 0.59%
    gerry 24 0.57%
    news 24 0.57%
    political 21 0.5%
    liam 18 0.42%
    belfast 17 0.4%
    dup 15 0.35%
    f;in 14 0.33%
    mick 14 0.33%
    unionist 14 0.33%

  • I hope it stays on slugger and, hopefully, in the media until charges are formally bought and the court cases announced.

    Not interested in percentages, interested in children and damaged people.

  • Ulick

    Indeed pippakin. Just a pity there’s no charges likely to be pending against Gerry though, sure that would even more interesting.

  • Ulick

    If he simply helped his brother, and if there are no other charges, then no he almost certainly wont face charges.

    If any assistance was given to those escaping from child abuse or rape allegations, I cannot see how he can avoid charges as an accomplice after the fact.

    I am not an expert but thats how it looks to me.

  • Gerry Lvs castro

    No criminal charges for Adams perhaps but the charge of being a blatant liar and putting party and sibling before raped child and the potential safety of others speaks volumes.

    Pete is right to continue to highlight this issue.

    The bravery of Aine Tyrell in speaking out should be an inspiration to others to do likewise, whoever their abusers.
    Adams conduct throughout this sorry episode is deeply cynical, unfeeling and quite breathtakingly arrogant.

    This case isn’t going away and is potentially much more damaging than Iris-gate. For the sake of his party and his niece he should go and go now.

  • Pete Baker

    tacapal et al

    Your concern is duly noted.

    But focussing on the detail is what I do.

    In this case it just happens to be Gerry’s changing story.

    Now if someone would like to comment on the topic…

  • John O’Connell

    I’m with you in this, Pippakin. I don’t think that Gerry Adams will face charges but he should as you suggest. He has after all lied his way through a situation in which he appears to have allegedly manipulated a victim of child abuse to stop his brother from facing charges. He used the many meetings he had with Aine Tyrell to attempt to prevent Liam from facing up to his terrible deeds.

  • Yes we sometimes forget that in this debate, helping someone to escape from a crime is to make yourself an accomplice after the act.

    So if any of the accused are found guilty and GA by his actions has hidden them and their crime, that makes him and anyone else who helped them liable to charges.

    At least that is as far as I understand it. No doubt there is all sorts of wriggle room for slick lawyers to exploit.

  • west belfast

    Someone would almost think that Pete doesnt really like Gerry Adams.

    Wait til the election – see what the people say.

    By the way I’d like to report a missing person – male, 5ft tall, usually has a subtle smile on his face, works as an MP and goes by the name of wee Jeffrey.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    “No doubt there is all sorts of wriggle room for slick lawyers to exploit. ”

    There would be if only poor Gerry could afford them.

  • Munsterview

    Re Tipp. Councillors threat to resign, I already covered many of the issues at 3/24 in response to…Tyrell challenges G.A. account…… Much of that comment is pertinent to this debate also.

    As for the latest Tipp. S.F. councilor’s threat of resignation, a small cabal of control freaks have been prepared to constantly allow seasoned, high caliber elected local reps from Billy Leen in Kerry over ten years ago to more recently, Christy Burke in Dublin to walk taking all their long experience of dealing with their councils and public with them. Good luck to our Tipp friend if he expects a meaningful response or indeed any at all other than to get lost!

    These elected councillors are in most instances tried and tested republicans who stood by the Northern Nationalist people throughout the conflict at a terrible cost to their domestic, social and political lives, as did their partners and families. When these people walk other old comrades also drop out and whole election networks are lost. Whatever of the energy of new eager beavers, the latter do not have the street smarts or the earned credibility to fill the void. This fact is reflected in opinion polls and the southern stagnation of Sinn Fein growth.

    For the past four decades the public perception of the Southern public is that Sinn Fein has that it is all about the North. If the Stormount so called Power Sharing arrangement collapse as it now seems destined to do then Sinn Fein will be seen to be equally ineffective North and South. In these dire economic circumstances, people and especially young people will not vote for alternative ideals offering more of the same. So far that is all Sinn Fein seems to be doing.

    Republicanism on this island as a whole can be radical or it can be redundant! As the Republican Movement is presently structured and led, the first is impossible and the second is increasing inevitable.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    The issue is not whether some one likes or dislikes gerry adams. The issue is child abuse and how a political party handled allegations. Since gerry adams by his own words stated he believed his niece that her father/his brother had sexually assaulted her and his actions from that time on…is a huge issue.

    For those who say…wait until elections…my response is that people voted for Hitler but that didn’t absolve him from what he did.

  • Rory Carr

    Why is it that so many who post a comment on this topic feel the need to preface their remarks by telling us that they are opposed to the sexual, physical, emotional abuse of children?

    Did they feel a necessity to clear away any doubt in the matter, that there might be some suggestion that, if not now, then at sometime in the past, they might have been wholeheartedly in favour of such behaviour?

    It all has the smell of the estate agent’s fulsome assurance of his honesty and integrity
    prior to his setting out to fleece his dupe of a customer.

    When I read such comments as:

    I am not an expert but thats how it looks to me. – Pippakin

    I’m with you in this, Pippakin. I don’t think that Gerry Adams will face charges but he should as you suggest. – John O’Connell

    At least that is as far as I understand it. No doubt there is all sorts of wriggle room for slick lawyers to exploit. – Pippakin (again)

    I am left to feel that if such is the quality of Gerry Adams’s accusers he requires little in the way of defence.

  • Macanna

    Kathy, going by the posts, this is about getting Gerry. Thats fine I am sure Gerry is big enough to look after himself. But why is Aine’s word believed above his. The old saying goes, there are three sides to every story. If Gerry got the timeline wrong then I would give him the benefit of the doubt, Mainly because I still get confused about the dates of many important events in my own life. If he was protecting his brother then he has to face the consequences.

  • Rory Carr

    What is your problem?

    You typed it but did you read it. This is about child abuse and the rape of young girls. It is not about protecting S/F or their activists.

    Your parting shot “he requires little in the way of defence.” That so? He certainly needs more than we have seen so far.

  • Rory Carr

    Oh yes, Pippakin, I did indeed type it and with some deliberation which is a lot more than can be said for your saloon-bar interjections. Fortunately the meanness of mind and spirit which is demonstrated in your posts and which are fitting only for inclusion on a rabid shock-jock radio show is not shared by either the bulk of the msm or by the public at large who are not so willing to act like scavenging dogs tearing at the wounds of a family tragedy in order to somehow give meaning to their own sad little lives..

  • Rory Carr

    Saloon bar interjections, meanness of mind and spirit, rabid shock jock, scavenging dogs.

    I can tell you are an independent voter, not by any means a member of a political party or movement, and certainly not the kind of arse licking crawler who wastes time and effort defending a discredited leader. The same leader who has spent the past couple of weeks trying to defend the indefensible.

  • Munsterview

    Most of the comment so far concentrates on G.A. position as head of Sinn Fein and I while I do have views on this, ultimately that is a matter for the Sinn Fein party per se. Gerry also holds the office of M.P and if Aine Tyrell’s account of their meetings are true, then at very least as an M.P. he has serious questions to answer. Following is part of a comment post that can be found at……’Tyrell challenges G.A. account……. page 3/ 24.

    ” Gerry Adams may have many roles in the Republican Movement that he has served well, but in the first instance to the general public, he is an M.P. with all that office entails. I cannot believe that somebody such as Gerry or his advisers could be so ignorant of the nature and character of child sexual abusers as to say as he apparently did to Aine, that Liam Adams working in a youth community project was Liams way of making up for past abuses. As for reports that Liam Adams was involved in restorative justice…. the mind boggles!

    Do Gerry Adams think for one moment that if a Fianna Fail, Labour or Fine Gael T.D. were involved in assisting and tolerating a near relative that had been involved in sexual abuse of children at the expense of at least one victim that Sinn Fein T.D’s would not be in uproar in the Dail.?

    As to that T.D. claiming that he did not know that the relative was working as a youth officer in a community project a few streets away from where the T.D. lived, as Liam Adams apparently did with Gerry, Sinn Fein would be calling for that T.D.‘s head on a plate, ( and rightly so) in the Dail? ”

    No person in public office is or should be unaccountable to the standards required for that office!

  • Mick Fealty

    Can we cool the ad hominem stuff lads/lasses. As for the focus on the president of SF, I am not sure where Ulick’s figures come from, but anyone who thinks the Adams story is not important is a fool.

    As for the above, let me spell out for you the implications of the above: either the niece is lying or Gerry is. A politician who relies on the public tolerating the fact that he serially lies about anything inconvenient to him is one that is rapidly running out of currency.

    Adams was extended that luxury by one and all (including Slugger) because the political dispensation of the Belfast Agreement demanded it… but there is nothing political about any of these alleged crimes, nor their apparent cover up. That does not, as some here have suggested, mean that Adams is finished… he’s just vulnerable to a pretty conventional attack…

    Now…

    Are there rapists who got away with it under cover of ‘paramilitary justice’ in other parts of the city? You betcha! Are west Belfast Republicans the only ones who have harboured child rapists? Of course not. Are the RUC and the Social Services ripe for the kind of thorough going Inquiry that Bernadette is looking for and which can tip everything upside down and shake at least some of the dirt out of a dirty system? Absolutely!

    Now you show me the politician who is asking for any of that to happen, and I’ll show you a bunch of aging men compromised by their own positions of power, official and official.

    My own primary concern is not with politicians hiding the truth, it lies instead with kids who are trapped by some of these creatures today.. whomever they might be…

    No matter what gets said in obfuscation, Adams is to be judged by both his words and his apparent inactions… Huston, you have a problem… and not a small one…

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    Hi Macanna, to answer your question,

    “But why is Aine’s word believed above his (gerry’s)”

    1. Gerry said he believed her that Liam had abused her.

    2. Gerry adams has recently been caught not telling the truth about things such as saying the prisoners sang a song to show their commitment yet when gerry said this song was sung…it had not even been written.

    3. gerry said he was estranged from his brother yet photo’s and public records demonstrate just the opposite–gerry had campaigned smiling with liam at the time gerry stated he believed liam had sexually abused his daughter. Gerry went to liam’s second marraige–smiling again at the time gerry states he believed his brother had raped his daughter. Now to me–going out campaigning and going to a wedding show support for liam not estrangement.

    It’s like they say in America—three strikes and you’re out.

  • Macanna

    Sorry Kathy, but points one and two are no answer and as for point three, I think gerry did address those points or at least some of them. Why is Aine believed over Gerry? Still no answer.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    “Why is Aine believed over Gerry? Still no answer. ”

    Don’t be silly. Jeffrey Archer is believed over Gerry.

  • West Sider

    Rory Carr, well said. Jimmy Shallow, ‘Balls,’ said the Queen, ‘if I had them, I’d be King.’

    My point: Squinter in the Andersonstown News puts this all very well – most people in the heartlands, and elsewhere, are thinking: Huh?

    Mostly bored, confused, and probably slightly fed up at all the sound and fury and lack of – how he terms it – a dagger.

    But still, I’m here on the republic of Slugger, Pop: 10, and sure it’s all grand, if not representative.

    And never will be. Shoot me up a liquor… I’ll toast another tumbelweed coming through.

  • Mick Fealty

    WS,

    Here’s why I think you are blowing smoke. Adams is the story. And as Brian Feeney pointed out, it is not going to go away. If the most powerful narrative is what you do rather than what you say, then it should mean trouble somewhere for someone.

    If there is any damage (and the only ones talking about political damage on Slugger are people like you who seem desperately keen to tell us there isn’t any), you won’t see it in the heart lands first.

    It will be the middle classes who ‘lent’ their votes to SF ten years ago who will leave first. And if the SDLP continues in its own incompetent way, you’ll only see that in a drop of figures. There will only be a loss of seats if someone competes.

    I think Moloney was right about the effect of the McCartney story, it’s slowly killed the party in the south. At the time, it probably helped Durkan take his seat in Foyle, but had little more general effect in NI. That says a lot of the resilience of the base.

    These double standards on rape and child abuse have to be seen as a weakness. But whoever tries to exploit them would be well advised to be very careful in how they do that. I would suggest the general charge of duplicity is the greater vulnerability,

    On the specifics of these cases, Durkan should have been doing what Sinn Fein plainly cannot do with any effect: ie, calling for a proper investigation of the police and social services’ responses here.

    But then his mind on the past rather than the future at this moment in time.

  • Your concern is duly noted.

    But focussing on the detail is what I do.

    In this case it just happens to be Gerry’s changing story.

    Now if someone would like to comment on the topic… Posted by Pete Baker

    Interesting that, how about focussing on all the detail then ? The RUC were informed of the alledged abuse, why did they not act ? Why did they allow this man to wander free and to work with children ? Why did they give him clearance to work in youth clubs ? That is the important issue in this story, one which to date you have chosen to ignore !

  • victor1

    No one is ignoring the public services responsibility in this. No investigation into them will start until after any trials have taken place, that is perfectly normal procedure. To hold investigations before any trial takes place would jeopardise the trials.

    Gerry Adams and some of his clique in S/F have serious questions to answer. To let them off the hook in favour of some sort of bash the Brits agenda, would be to let down any alleged victims.

    This time the favourite fall back position of republicans will not work.

  • pippakin

    There is not one sentence in Pete’s comments where he takes to task the statutory bodies involved, the Brit bashing as you put it doesn’t exist !

    To hold investigations before any trial takes place would jeopardise the trials.

    Does this only apply to the conduct of those statutory bodies ? Isn’t everyone entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise ? Gerry Adams will succeed this campaign, make no doubt about that,all the petty hate filled scribblings will not alter that fact one little bit!

  • sluggisht

    Gerry Adams will succeed this campaign
    ________________________________________________

    There it is in a nutshell.

  • victor1

    What exactly would you want the public services investigated for, at this time when no one has been officially charged let alone found guilty!

    Subject to the outcome of charges, trials etc. The evidence will show what statutory bodies were involved and give us the full questions we must ask of them.

    I am grateful to people like you who keep giving people like me the opportunity to state that Gerry Adams attempts at answering questions have only raised more questions. Further allegations have been made since those relating to his niece and those too must be investigated.

    Sluggisht

    In a nutshell: we have not gone away you know….
    Those of us who care more for children and victims of sexual assault than we do about any political party or terrorist group will keep on until the truth is told.

  • Rory Carr

    Those of us who care more for children and victims of sexual assault than we do about any political party or terrorist group will keep on until the truth is told.

    Don’t you mean, Pippakin, that those of you with an anti-Sinn Féin political agenda will continue to pose as sweet caring individuals with a special place in your hearts for dear little children, one that you and you alone have, will continue to parrot your concern from the gutter until your hopes for the destruction of Adams, like all your futile hopes, perish and die?

  • Rory Carr

    How nice! It must be, what 24 hours?

    I do not have an anti S/F agenda, indeed one of my most repeated statements here and on other posts, is my belief that this continued refusal to deal with the subject of child abuse and other allegations is damaging the party.

    Im doing it again, but here goes: S/F must distance itself from these allegations, anyone accused of abuse or rape, if they have not been suspended, must be. Sinn Fein must state that the suspension is without prejudice and reinstatement will be made as soon as the allegations are disproved in the proper venue.

    It is arguable that S/F have already been damaged by allegations over the Quinn and McCartney murders. This latest embarrassment will not lose cost them people like you, but for people like me, independent voters who look at the whole party, not just its flag, our decision is looking easier by the day.

  • tacapall

    There are very few parties in the world who are not connected to some sort of cover up of one sort or another. Like I said before mistakes were made by a few individuals. Not everyone in the republican movement were aware of these accusations and the way the victims were treated, and indeed, im sure, lessons will be learned. Gerry Adams broke no laws and therefore it is his electorate that will judge him. The hysteria aroused by these actions is being highlighted by the same people day and night with repeated multiple blogs, by people who have no connection or do not support Sinn Fein. Your actions highlight your inability to accept that, no matter how much you try to “Expose” Gerry Adams it has no effect on his support base.

  • pippakin

    What gives you the right to make demands of Sinn Féin, Sinn Féin must do this or that or the other on your say so ! I don’t think so ! How nice it must be for you to wield such power !

    Independant voters will vote how they wish, Sinn Féin voters will as always support the party and thier policies, they will not take the lead from bias little commentators with thier petty little gripes.

  • tacapall

    There is no political party in a western democracy that would allow itself to be implicated in allegations of child abuse.

    Gerry Adams must be suspended from Sinn Fein until all the allegations are answered. He should have done this himself. If he is bigger than the party then the party will not survive him, and it must.

    Martin McGuinness has been doing good work with the Assembly, he must not be implicated in this. His attempt to support GA did him no favours with the wider public, and it is the wider public he needs to court, not the fully paid up members of republican groups.

    If a ‘blind eye’ was turned to child abuse and sexual sadists by republicans that must be exposed and eradicated. Anyone with allegations against them must go to trial. Attempts to deny and evade damage Sinn Fein and risk implicating the entire republican movement.

    A man in Derry was shot by dissident republicans. It is a short step to ask yourself “what kind of person does this?” I could not do it, most people could not. So who could.

  • Munsterview

    Yep victor1, right on, once wore that particular T shirt, see it all from the inside, now watching it from the outside! Whatever of Mick et al those of us that invested over half of our lives, our energies and indeed our own finances over long decades in S.F. to see meaningful political change North and South have earned the right to be listened to at the very least.

    Look to the South, to the next election, if present trends continue the incoming SF T.D. like the P.D.’s before them, who did not listen to any voices other than their own either, will be able to hold their first meeting in one of the telephone booths of Linster House!

    Do you think in that situation that a Southern Taoiseach or English PM will waste an hour of their time on the North never mind a day, two days or three ? If that is the level of your political awareness dream on, it seems you are not short of company!

  • tacapall

    Pip maybe you should look up “Ted Heath former Conservitive Prime Minister and the Kincora cover up” Im sure you wont be surprised by the results. Like I said the “Electorate” will judge Gerry Adams/Sinn Fein not some bloggers on a Unionist biased website, and what happened in Derry ! What has this got to do with Gerry Adams.

  • victor1

    I am not making demands of S/F or anyone else! I am saying what will almost certainly happen if they do not grow up and get on with being a grown up party in a grown up world.

    As for ‘petty little gripes’!!!

    If that is how S/F and its supporters view allegations of child abuse and rape. You are right nothing anyone could say or do will help them. The best thing they could do is fade away quietly and hope no one notices.

    Tacapall

    If you think you could tell me anything about the likes of Ted Heath that would surprise me – dream on. He was a horrible, sulky little man, who spent a big part of his life nursing a monumental chip on his shoulder. Whenever I think of him the phrase ‘bent as a corkscrew’ springs to mind, dont ask me why. I simply couldnt say….

    The point about the shooting in Derry is: the shooter either had to be completely devoted to his cause and above mere human emotions. Or, a sadistic little ejit who gets a hard on taking advantage of anyone weaker than him. Go on you tell me any similarity between the shooter and certain outstanding allegations.

  • tacapall

    There is no political party in a western democracy that would allow itself to be implicated in allegations of child abuse.
    Posted by pippakin on Jan 29, 2010 @ 02:08 PM

    Well Pip I was answering the question above, I see you blindly ignored the results anyway.

    There is no similarities. One group has the support of the electorate, whilst the other does not. Trying to connect them is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

  • Rory Carr

    “Whenever I think of him [Ted Heath] the phrase ‘bent as a corkscrew’ springs to mind, dont ask me why. I simply couldnt say….”

    So, Pippakin, I see you intend to continue slinging mud at individuals based on nothing more than your dislike for them and without the slightest shred of evidence. Not content with Gerry Adams you have now added Ted Heath to the repetoire of politicians you are happy to besmirch at your whim.

    Perhaps you have something nasty (and preferably sexual, as is your wont) to say about Nelson Mandela or Albert Schweizer or maybe even Mother Teresa or Francis of Assisi? Why not? The only criterion required to fit them for attack would be that they have invited Pippakin’s disapproval.

  • tacapall

    I see where you are going with this, but no one, to my knowledge in any of the, shall we say, ‘big’ political parties was actually accused.

    Like you I believe there may well have been a cover up and like you I believe the whole sordid little nest should be reopened and everyone involved, named, shamed and if still alive prosecuted.

    It makes no difference to the current allegations, except to make us the more determined to ensure there are no more coverups.

    In fact we can be thankful we no longer live in an age when covering up appalling abuse of children is considered allowable.

  • Rory Carr

    Hello again, what would my life be if were not for your presence.

    Are you formally accusing the above? If so it is not me you need to speak to but the appropriate public services.

    I do care about crimes against children, and so should you. It should be the one subject all sides agree on.

    The allegations against Liam Adams and others are either sexual or include sexual assault among others. And, you are right, I consider sexual crimes to be the worst, especially when they are committed by those who consider they are beyond the law. I dont care if such people are priests or politicians, they must be stopped.

    As for my opinion of Ted Heath. He put himself forward as a politician in the public eye. He took what ever praise he got and he, like all politicians must take the blame for the impression they leave behind them.

    As for comparing Gerry Adams to Ted Heath, I leave that to you.

  • You are right nothing anyone could say or do will help them. The best thing they could do is fade away quietly and hope no one notices. posted by pippakin

    Fade away quietly lol in your dreams old chap the Shinners are here for the long hall !

  • victor1

    Then if they hope for votes from anyone other than their own deaf, dumb and blind supporters, they better clean up their act, their party and their reputations.

  • If they have to rely on those who seem to think hearsay equals guilt then they really would be in trouble pip old son, but I really can’t envisage that to be the case !

  • tacapall

    By the way Pip I like your funny cat picture, is that you holding the gun.

  • Kevsterino

    When people write that Gerry Adams’ duplicity will cause his downfall, I really have to wonder what they see in this particular story that changes things.

    He has obviously been, ahem, less than candid about everything from IRA membership to the hunger strikes and a number of things in between.

    I realize that when the writer really really wants Adams out of the picture, he can hope that the latest exposed canard will put Adams out of the picture. But he should realize it is only hope and nothing more.

  • victor1

    This is not ‘hearsay’ These are official allegations, made to police, social services and others.

    In due course there will be action, trials etc. If S/F have not distanced themselves long before then , and any are found guilty, they risk guilt by association.

    Bad enough they are covered in crap from their ‘handling’ of the McCartney and Quinn murders, they lost enough votes in the south because of that, but that they extend the ‘silence of the clan’ to child abusers and perverts is unforgivable.

  • tacapall

    Now would I shoot a cat! For the record I have never even seen a real gun. I dont believe in them, they give some people an inflated opinion of their own importance!

  • tacapall

    I doubt you would, and instead of importance I would say bravery.

  • tacapall

    Well as long as we both agree it would be inflated!

    By the way why didnt you leave a comment. You know how would be writers love a critic!!!

  • Mick Fealty

    Did I not make it clear that people should address the issues raised, not each other.

    Rory, I am surprised at you!

  • Rory Call

    If what was obviously something nasty was aimed at me and not this line, find my blog or twitter me.

    The subject here is or should be the alleged abuse of children and the sexual assault of vulnerable young girls

  • The subject here is or should be the alleged abuse of children and the sexual assault of vulnerable young girls Posted by pippakin

    Why then are the majority of the comments pointed at Gerry Adams ? Lets get something clear here, if the concern was sincere towards victims of sexual assault, then I’m sure everyone would be of one voice, the fact that little or no concern has been shown towards the alledged victim speaks volumes for those running thier petty musings.

  • Mick Fealty

    Because he has a case to answer. Up to him whether he answers it or not, of course. People will do with that what they may (within legal limits of course).

  • victor1

    The majority of the comments may be pointed at Gerry Adams, I dont keep count. If they are it is because he has, by his attempts to answer questions, raised yet more questions and disquiet.

    Few things are worse than finding the cause you believed in, the people you voted for, are covering up the abuse of children and girls.

    No cause is worth that, and no one is so important they dont have to put the children first.

    The victim is as important as the crime, but will not be helped by allowing others to cling to blatant lies and evasion.

  • Mick

    If Gerry Adams has a case to answer it certainly won’t be to a bunch of bloggers running a futile little campaign.

    It seems to me that the alledged victims in this case are secondary simply because of the personality involved, this I would contend is a hate campaign rather than one of justice.

    If there is a genuine concern for the victims and I have got the jist of the campaign wrong, then lets see the whole topic being expanded, lets ask questions of the statutory bodies who were informed of the alledged abuse and did nothing !

    Lets ask questions of the RUC the police force of the time, who were informed of the alledged sexual assaults and done nothing !

    Lets ask questions of the same RUC who were more interested in recruiting the alledged victim as an informer than they were of the allegations made by her. Lets ask questions as to why the RUC cleared the alledged abuser to work with children !
    In the interest of the alledged victim of the sexual assault lets do the job right, lets seek answers to all the questions posed by the story, and not just run a hate filled campaign against one person.

    Pip old chum, you still don’t get it do you to paraphrase “we’re never going away ya know”

  • victor1

    Against my better judgement I read the whole of your latest post.

    It was of course more of the same. We have to ask questions pf GA because he has failed to answer any honestly.

    We cannot ask the official bodies any real questions until after any or all trials take place. In fact if everyone is found not guilty they have no questions to answer!

    Allegations have been made, Gerry Adams attempted to get in first and made things worse. It is for him to step aside from S/F and let the law take its course.

  • Pippakin

    Against my better judgement I read the whole of your latest post.

    It was of course more of the same.

    You still haven’t got it pip old chum, Gerry’s staying and no ammount of wishful thinking is gonna change that fact, as a matter of fact, it is quite possible he could well be the next first minister of the six county state.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    “lets see the whole topic being expanded”

    I couldn’t agree more, but you don’t go far enough. Better still, ask questions of the NIO’s “internal housekeeping” policy, which gave carte blanche to paramilitary organisations to commit the most unspeakable crimes provided they confined their activities to their own communities.

  • tacapall

    Pip maybe you’re right and Gerry Adams should answer questions that need to be answered, but he has not as far as anyone knows, broken any laws, he does not “have to” answer any questions. In the interests of integrity, yes he does, but politicians are not the type that have that virtue. Time will tell what the people think of him. They will be the judges and if they believe as you do then he wont be voted back into office, if not then it will be the status quo.

  • John O’Connell

    Victor1

    Gerry Adams is the butt of every joke at the moment. Every TV station covered him peeking out from the crack in the doors at Hillsborough during the Prime Ministers press conference. People are asking has he lost it.

    They are entitled to ask as he has been under enormous pressure lately and he is getting it from his own, not the Brits or unionists.

    When Gerry Adams loses his masculinity then he is weakened and that masculine invulnerability is wearing thin at the moment.

  • victor1

    Oh I get it ‘old chum’.

    What you are saying is you dont care what allegations hang over the heads of republicans. In your eyes anything they did can be blamed on the Brits, and if that fails, ignore it, who cares about the people, never mind the children.

    If any member of S/F became first minister with this lot hanging over them there would be hell to pay. In all honesty and as nationalist I could not blame anyone for refusing to serve in such a government. I would refuse myself.

    Shame on you for putting the cause before the child.

  • Mick Fealty

    victor,

    This is the way the internet works. Some one puts up a post with detail on it, and people respond. If there are enough people interested in said topic it keeps cycling through for as long as people prepared to talk about it.

    This post was written yesterday with new information that came out the day before. I’ve not written about this story for days now. But I did comment on this thread twice to state why/how I think the story might inflict damage on the party.

    No big deal, and it is not what I have been thinking about for the last few days. There is possibly one more thing I have in the background from last week that I would like to get out, but then, so far as I know, that’s all there is (that’s fit to print at least).

    When more comes out, if more comes out, I’ve no doubt you’ll read it here. But in the meantime there are other things to be getting on with…

    Like working out what’s going on inside unionism…

    Are the Tories serious about getting serious with UCUNF after the next election…

    Will Peter Robinson survive as leader of the DUP…

    Will the SDLP ever get another leader…

    Will Slugger ever get to blog another non NI related thread…

    And oh, yes, when’s the fat lady of Hillsborough going to sing…

    In the meantime you keep worrying about this ‘campaign’ against Gerry… We’ll keep trying to speak truth unto power…

  • Nice one pip old chap, its now all my fault eh ! Oh well I can live with that as my concience is clear.

  • Mick

    I can do without the lecture if you don’t mind “the ball not the man” and all that !

  • Mick Fealty

    Just trying to give you a straight answer victor… sorry…

  • Paddy

    http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/39443

    The Kneecapper’s weekly aka An Phoblacht, has weighed in with a savage attack on the Sunday Tribune. They exonerate Gerry, preach about upholding the law, and weill generally give all fair minded readers, who think of the barbarities an Phoblacht has eulogised in the past, a good laugh.

    Of course, this screed by Ms O’Shaughnessy ( does it stil use made up names?), will give the Tribune a right to reply. So maybe more revelations about the Pervies in Sunday’s Tribune.

    Checking their website a few days ago, I saw Martin McGartland and otehr “ex Volunteers” had posted comments. Does An Phoblacht give them right of reply?

    The SFIRA mosaic is unravelling as they have no record of moral probity.

  • Paddy

    The same 20.http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/39443 edition also has a long letter from “a Belfast woman” attacking the Rape Crisis Centre. No doubt Finucane and Wilson, like all Gerry’s old IRA buddies are “better equipped” to deal with rape victims

  • Not sure if Im overstepping here but, The Pensive Quill blog by Anthony McIntyre item: ‘An Open Appeal to All Republicans’ is on this subject and I recommend it to all. I am grateful for his bravery in stepping forward.

    We should all: always put the children first.