Widgery: “Where is your patriotism…”

Great programme on Jimmy Porter’s tapes of army and police conversations made during the shooting on Bloody Sunday in Derry in 1972… Most astonishing is the confrontation with Lord Widgery who warns him he has made powerful enemies and that he should destroy the tapes… He got them out across the border and kept until they appeared at the Saville Inquiry… It’s just finishing on Radio Ulster now, and should be online shortly…

  • Wabbits

    Just listened to it. It was a great piece of radio. what an interesting man Jimmy Porter is. I recommend it to all.

    The Widgery comment shows just how important it was for the British establishment to hide the truth about that awful day.

    But, like everything else thats been happening lately, eventually the truth will out.

  • Secret Squirrel

    I heard the program accidentally earlier this afternoon.
    I believe the tape recordings in question used to be available as a single mp3 file on the web. It’s 21,467,222Kb in size if that helps anybody find it. ( I’ve had a quick look but can’t find it on the web.)
    The CIA closed the site that hosted the file the day following the 9-11 twin towers inside job thing.

  • Secret Squirrel

    Sorry, that should be 21,467,222 bytes (no kilos) :o)

  • Secret Squirrel

    I dug it outa the squirrel files and uploaded it here.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    I listened to the radio programme and enjoyed it, if it were not for Jimmy Porter the British government may not have held the Saville Inquiry. It was also interesting the point he made about his home/premises being forever raided, even though the Brits knew he had nothing there. Terrorism I say and state sponsored at that!!

    Listening to the programme, you could clearly hear an officer ask the question, confirm you see a nail bomber – shoot him dead. This officer of the British terrorist forces should be found, arrested and jailed for life with no chance of ever getting out – bastard!!!

  • RepublicanStones

    One is reminded of Albert Camus’ retort..

    “I believe in justice, but I’ll defend my mother before justice.”

    But hopefully Saville will be more like Jules Roy..

    “Its not a matter of choosing one’s mother above justice. It is a matter of loving justice as much as one’s mother.”

  • Panic, these ones like it up em.

    Well worth a listen to the radio show. An interesting man.

    As for the tapes well One thing that is beyond doubt is that Max Hastings is a Grade A as***e and the guy talking to him was as bad.

    Mind you anyone with much Knowledge of Max Hastings would have known this already.

  • Reader

    DisgustedinDerry: …ask the question, confirm you see a nail bomber – shoot him dead. This officer of the British terrorist forces should be found, arrested and jailed for life with no chance of ever getting out – bastard!!!
    If someone was throwing nail bombs at you, wouldn’t you regard it as attempted murder?

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Reader:
    All of the victims murdered on Bloody Sunday were unarmed civilians, that is fact, no evidence suggests otherwise. That shows the cowardice of the British terrorist forces. It also shows the cowardice of people like John Taylor who along with Whitehall, made sure that state sponsored terrorism was wiped under the carpet. Thankfully or hopefully this will no longer be the case, as we will see in the months ahead.

    RIP the 14 UNARMED CIVILIANS murdered by BRITISH TERRORISTS on the 30th of January 1972.

  • Stephen Blacker

    DisgustedinDERRY,

    I trust that the findings of the inquiry being held now will give closure to the families of the dead and wounded of 30.1.72.

    I know that some of the dead were elderly but i cant understand why there were no nail / petrol-bombers on that day?

    This was a place that prided itself on being a “no-go” area to anything British and had riots everyday and shot and murdered policemen and soliders right up to Bloody Sunday.

    Could you tell me why the die-hard rioters were not about that day. I am not trying to stir it, i just cant understand it.

    I heard the radio program with Jimmy Porter and i must agree he proved himself extremely brave especially after the events of Bloody Sunday.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Stephen Blacker,
    Publications of witness statements of that day are available to buy, they would set you straight, I would recommend ‘Eyewitness Bloody Sunday‎’ by Don Mullan.

    You say you are not trying to stir when you clearly are, it is evident that you know not the whole truth about the Bogside on that day or days, months, years leading up to it. Try some reading before you stir, it usually helps an argument if you know the subject matter!!!

  • Stephen Blacker

    DisgustedinDERRY,

    Thank you, I will look into the history a bit more before commenting. The problem I find in this country is that a history lesson is very difficult to get that has no bias.

    For what its worth, I was not stirring, but I guess that means nothing to you. I admit I dont know the “whole truth” thats why I asked you.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Stephen Blacker,

    I re read your comment and accept that you were not stirring, go to ‘Google Books’ and type in ‘Bloody Sunday 1972’. There you will get a few snippets of publications including the one I recommended – enjoy.

  • Panic, these ones like it up em.

    “Learn” would be a better word there than “enjoy”

    DisgustedinDERRY

  • Stephen Blacker

    DisgustedinDERRY,

    Thanks for believing me, I was being sincere. Your reply, #13, made me cringe, I know the context in the way you used the word “enjoy” but we both know that is not what I will be doing while reading that part of our history.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Agreed!

  • Reader

    DisgustedinDerry: All of the victims murdered on Bloody Sunday were unarmed civilians, that is fact, no evidence suggests otherwise.
    Then the officer’s response was irrelevant, wasn’t it? – since you believe it didn’t apply to the circumstances on the day. So – start again – why should he be jailed for life?

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Reader,

    I’m a little confused as to your meaning???

    The British Army knew on the day that trouble was going to happen, in other words they knew the Para’s were going to teach the people of Derry a lesson.

    On the morning of the march, an English man, Len Green who was a nationalist activist was on his way to work. He met a group of Soldiers who told him to make sure his two sons were not in the Bogside that day as trouble was imminent.

    The British terrorist army used the airwaves to back up a cover up not knowing they would be rumbled, the officer you hear in the programme said what he said deliberately so as to make it sound as if nail bombers were present.

    15,000+ people are documented as saying there were no nail bombers or gun men present, are they all wrong?

    Why don’t you go under whatever rock you just came out of because it is 2010, not 1940 and in this day and age nationalists are way ahead in terms of academia and education than their unionist brothers and we will fight to the bitter end to expose the failings of both the unionist and British governments.

    The game is up for unionist ideology and the sooner the better, history is on the side of nationalism. When we lead, we shall show unionism up by embracing our Protestant brothers and sisters and by not discriminating against them as unionism did to nationalism for the last 90 years.

  • Driftwood

    DisgustedinDERRY

    Don’t you have primary school tomorrow?

    Were you on that Ronnie Corbett show-
    ‘kids say the funniest things’

    Anyway you gave me a laugh..
    Thanks.

    ps Tell your Mum (I’m presuming no Dad)to make sure the smoke alarm is on, wake her up if necessary.

  • koan

    Tragically, hundreds of hours of secretly recorded conversations involving top politicians from Britain and Ireland, and security personnel, were destroyed in Derry in the early hours of Operation Motorman. Some of the material would undoubtedly have shaped the historical record.

  • Cynic2

    Nice little racist rant Disgusted …. but with your position “way ahead in terms of academia and education ” I guess you know that. But tell me, given that position then, why have nationalists signed up to continuing to live in the British Statelet?

    In fact you emind me of a story.

    One day Gerry Adams was walking through St Georges market when he came upon a stall run by a young boy selling puppies. Gerry was very taken with the little dogs and asked ‘ What kind of pups are these son?’ Quick as a flash the lad answed ‘They are good republican puppies sir’.

    Gerry laughed but as he walked away he hit on a great idea. It would be brilliant PR to be photographed with the dogs and the lad. A real human interest story to counteract some of his recent bad publciity.

    So next week Gerry, BBC camera crew in tow, goes back to St Georges on a ‘man of the people’ walk. There is the young lad still trying to sell the dogs so Gerry wanders casually over and, beaming at the camera, spontaneously repeats his question of last week ‘What kind of pups are these son?’

    Again, quick as a flash the lad answers ‘They are good Unionist puppies sir’. Gerry is aghast. ‘But last week you told me they were republican puppies’. ‘Aye’, said the lad. ‘But since last week they have opened their eyes sir’

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Drifwood,

    A fitting name for unionism, drifting away…

  • Driftwood

    ‘Disgusted’ of derry/Tunbridge Wells, wherever is intent on propagating the conspiracy theory nonsense.
    So a few soldiers overreacted against the terrorists, big frigging deal.

    Have you woken your Mum up yet? remove the buckfast beside the electric fire and go back to your book on the ‘science’ behind crop circles.

    Come back when you’ve done GCSE History (Foundation tier)

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Driftwood,

    “So a few soldiers overreacted against the terrorists, big frigging deal”

    If your above statement were true, why would the British government spend almost £200million on an inquiry?? Please explain.

    Unarmed civilians marching for human rights are not terrorists, typical British apologist, everyone but the white loyal British subject is a terrorist.

  • Driftwood

    why would the British government spend almost £200million on an inquiry??

    Good question. But it kind of takes away from your later statements. BTW I’m not ‘white’ in any ethnic sense, at least not by gene pool.
    This ‘debate’ is circular and rears its ugly head at regular intervals on this site. I think the Parachute regiment should not have been dispatched but were acting under orders as if at Arnhem.. you think differently….
    I think Richard Dawkins is excellent, you think the Pope is etc etc.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Driftwood,

    Why do you assume that I think the Pope is excellent?

    If the para’s were under orders then my point has been made in terms of the officer going to prison and that the operation was planned at the highest level of both the Stormont government and the British government!

    The British government talk about Iran and China murdering protesters and banning freedom of expression, what about Islam4UK????

    Brit Hypocrisy at its finest, would you agree?

  • karlo polo

    “So a few soldiers overreacted against the terrorists, big frigging deal”

    Seriously?

    14 innocent people died, big friggin deal? Is that because they were Nationalist?

    I think DiD is a fool for his bigoted comments, but now I think you are too, for yours.

  • Panic, these ones like it up em.

    karlo polo

    Your name will be known widely as one of wisdom and good sense and impartiality.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Excuse me but I’m a realist, not a bigot.

  • Kensei

    Driftwood

    I positively hate to indulge your trolling, but

    This ‘debate’ is circular and rears its ugly head at regular intervals on this site. I think the Parachute regiment should not have been dispatched but were acting under orders as if at Arnhem.. you think differently….

    Nope. They were deployed in support of the civilian government to keep order, not in a theatre of war. The people they shot at were civilians, at least nominally citzens of the country they are meant to be protecting, not enemy soldiers. This is significantly differnet to “as if at Arnhem”.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Cowards; both the Governments (Unionist and British) and the Parachute regiment. They had to get immunity certs at the Saville inquiry because they could not look the people of Derry in the face.

  • joeCanuck

    Widgery: “Where is your patriotism…”

    That remark goes a long way to explaining why quite a few Judges in G.B. went along with stitching up some people in the “miscarriage of justice” trials.
    Thankfully other Judges had better morals even though it took years before they got their say.

  • Panic, these ones like it up em.

    Some one should have put a digery into Widgery

  • joeCanuck

    A digery! He would have to really really like it up ‘im.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    I don’t know about a digery but I’m sure he is keeping a seat warm for Thatcher in HELL!!!

  • Panic, these ones like it up em.

    joeCanuck said

    “9.A digery! He would have to really really like it up ‘im.”

    If you are that much of an A*****E then he would have the B*****o

  • Driftwood

    I suppose to a paratrooper, a guy with a mask about to throw a nail bomb at you, and a panzergrenadier with a stick grenade, share the common trait of trying to kill you.

    Anything can kick off violence, a similar situation to the Larne-Newry Irish Cup game at the weekend. Adrenaline and self defence, more commonly referred to as ‘fight or flight’.

    It was a blot though on an otherwise impeccable record of keeping the 2 sides apart. Not much thanks being piggy in the middle I suppose.

  • Reader

    DisgustedinDerry: 15,000+ people are documented as saying there were no nail bombers or gun men present, are they all wrong?
    Great – then the officer’s remarks were harmless because there were no nail bombers to be shot.
    On two further points: Firstly, your statement above implies that 15,000 people searched each other at the time. That seems unlikely.
    On the rest of your case – you seem to have bought into the most extreme conspiracy theory available, then added to it the suggestion that the radio tapes were faked after the fact. I really do think you are on your own there. Most conspiracy theorists reckon the tapes were suppressed by the Brits, not faked by them. By all means, embrace your theory – but don’t expect the rest of us to use it as the starting point for any discussion.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Driftwood,

    “I suppose to a paratrooper, a guy with a mask about to throw a nail bomb at you, and a panzergrenadier with a stick grenade, share the common trait of trying to kill you.”

    I don’t recall any such devices being presented to the Saville Inquiry as evidence, would you in your vast knowledge explain this? The answer is no, this because you can’t as you know nothing of the subject, your an idiot!!

    There are hundreds of photos available of that murderous day and only one of them shows a man covering his face, to stop the effects of tear gas. He was unarmed in the photo and seconds after it was taken he was dead. A further photo shows this.

    Another of the victims was shot in the upper torso. The bullet entered his armpit and exited out his side, he had his arms raised high to show he was no threat and the coward of a soldier shot him anyway!

    If you think you know different, present some evidence to support you, otherwise grow up and catch yourself on.

  • tacapall

    It was a blot though on an otherwise impeccable record of keeping the 2 sides apart. Not much thanks being piggy in the middle I suppose.
    Posted by Driftwood on Jan 18, 2010 @ 06:00 PM

    Why then did the British Government apologise ? and what two sides are you talking about ? As far as everybody else except you is concerned, there was only The people of the Bogside and the paratroopers there that day.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Reader,

    Various journalistic recordings are available of that day, nowhere in any of them can nailbombs be heard exploding. Are you suggesting that the para’s shot all the nailbombers before they could throw the devices. As I said above no devices, exploded or not, were presented to the Saville inquiry, can you suggest why this is? No you can’t, you are also an idiot!

    You are an idiot on another point; you say “Most conspiracy theorists reckon the tapes were suppressed by the Brits, not faked by them” If you had the intelligence to have listened to yesterdays programme you would have found that the Brits did not suppress the tapes as they did not posses them, that was the whole point of the programme, to talk about secret recordings an amateur radio enthusiast made in real time of the events of that murderous day.

    Get the facts or get a life, you know nothing!!

  • Driftwood

    Tacapall
    The government apologised because, as in the recent Thalidomide case, any failure to maintain high standards is their ultimate responsibility. In 35 years of Operation Banner, this was the only incident where the army- a politically neutral force- failed by its own high standards.
    Otherwise they stood between the two warring factions here throughout the ‘Troubles’ trying (and ultimately succeeding) to maintain law and order.
    The army doesn’t discriminate on religious grounds and many soldiers were/are Catholic. Indeed so were some GOC’s. But they stayed out of the sectarian lunacy here. As they still do elsewhere in the world as a major peacekeeping force.

    I’m sure when the Saville inquiry produces its findings there will still not be closure, as a sense of victimhood seems a permanent state of mind for some people.

    To me ‘Living in the Past’ is the name of a Jethro Tull album.

  • tacapall

    In 35 years of Operation Banner, this was the only incident where the army- a politically neutral force- failed by its own high standards.
    The army doesn’t discriminate on religious grounds and many soldiers were/are Catholic. Indeed so were some GOC’s. But they stayed out of the sectarian lunacy here. As they still do elsewhere in the world as a major peacekeeping force.
    Posted by Driftwood on Jan 18, 2010 @ 07:11 PM

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_Northern_Ireland_riots#Burning_of_Bombay_Street
    In addition, thousands of British Army troops were deployed into Northern Ireland. While the troops were initially seen as a neutral force, they rapidly got dragged into the street violence and by 1971 were devoting most of their attention to combatting republican paramilitaries.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Driftwood,

    You obviously don’t get out much, you also don’t read much.

    “this was the only incident where the army- a politically neutral force- failed by its own high standards”

    Have you never heard of Aiden McAnespie, an UNARMED CIVILLIAN shot dead on his way to a football match? The coward of a soldier who shot him claimed he was cleaning his weapon, such a lie!!

    Have you never heard of Daniel Hegarty, a fifteen year old boy, out for a walk with his cousin when a cowardly soldier shot him dead? He was an UNARMED CIVILLIAN.

    Have you never heard of the collusion between the British army and British loyalist terrorists? The cowardly soldiers passed on false information on INNOCENT CIVILLANS to people like Brian Nelson and Johnny Adair, and claimed they were terrorists.

    Have you never heard of the arms shipments that came from South Africa and Israel by way of a paid agent of the British government Brian Nelson?

    You write: “Otherwise they stood between the two warring factions here throughout the ‘Troubles’ trying (and ultimately succeeding) to maintain law and order”

    I don’t think somehow the British army had any success. Tony Bliar admitted that the British army could never defeat the IRA, he then ended operation banner and withdrew his terrorist soldiers. The very same soldiers who facilitated in the murder of people from the nationalist community.

    You write: “The army doesn’t discriminate on religious grounds and many soldiers were/are Catholic. Indeed so were some GOC’s. But they stayed out of the sectarian lunacy here”

    First of all, the head of the British forces is the queen of England, a position that can not be held by a member of the Catholic communion, is that not discrimination?

    Irish nationalism is not about Catholic/Protestant, it is about freeing Ireland from centuries of oppression, murder and discrimination. Unionism invented the notion of Protestant/unionist Catholic/nationalist thus dividing the people of this country. They then had a loyal people who would defend their union and suppress the non loyal people.

    You write: “As they still do elsewhere in the world as a major peacekeeping force”

    I have never in my life come across someone who has no idea of world politics, I don’t think the people in Iraq or Afganistan would say that the occupation of their country is for peacekeeping duties. The British army are not on peace keeping duties anywhere in the world. Wherever they are they are an invading force with no mandate. They have murdered thousands of women and children in Iraq in the name of Britishness.

    I suggest that if you post something on an open blog you get your facts right before you start typing!!!

  • Secret Squirrel

    DID,
    You’ve forgotten Peter McBride. His murderers were also accused by the trial judge of lying under oath yet were never prosecuted for perjury. The british army are perfectly happy to retain convicted murderers within its ranks.
    Furtermore, I believe international law forbids using convicted murders in an army yet the murderers were sent to fight in Iraq.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    If any of us were to write about the murderous activities of the British army I think it would take not days or weeks, more years or decades.

    On that point of Iraq, the British and US governments never got that second UN resolution making their invasion and subsequent occupation illegal.

    British government=Tyranny just ask the 200,000 people murdered by British and other forces since 2003.

  • tacapall

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

    The British Government’s view was that its forces were neutral in the conflict, trying to uphold law and order in Northern Ireland and the right of the people of Northern Ireland to democratic self-determination. Irish republicans, however, regarded the state forces as forces of occupation and “combatants” in the conflict, noting collusion between the state forces and the loyalist paramilitaries. The “Ballast” investigation by the Police Ombudsman has confirmed that British forces, and in particular the RUC, did, on several occasions, collude with loyalist paramilitaries, were involved in murder, and did obstruct the course of justice when such claims had previously been investigated.

    Elements within the Army and police have been shown to have leaked intelligence to loyalists from the late 1980s to target republican activists. In 1992, a British agent within the UDA, Brian Nelson, revealed Army complicity in his activities which included murder and importing arms.[88][89] Factions within the British Army and RUC are known to have cooperated with Nelson and the UDA through the British Army Intelligence group called the Force Research Unit. Since the late 1990s, some loyalists have confirmed to journalists such as Peter Taylor that they received files and intelligence from security sources on Republican targets.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Driftwood,

    Don’t you have primary school tomorrow?

    Were you on that Ronnie Corbett show-
    ‘kids say the funniest things’

    ps Tell your Mum (I’m presuming no Dad)to make sure the smoke alarm is on, wake her up if necessary.

  • Driftwood

    DiD etc. we are now in the cul-de-sac of whataboutery. I’ve been there myself many times so better to leave it.
    There are currently several thousand soldiers garrisoned here and they integrate just fine. I meet them every day. decent blokes.

    A couple of minor points. Most squaddies don’t give a f**k about the Queen outside regimental formalities. A bit like the England football team trying to figure out the words to the national anthem before games.

    Secret Squirrel
    your last line reminds me of the quote from ‘Apocalypse Now’
    ‘arresting people for murder in this place is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500’

    ps ‘Living In The Past’ is a good album, possibly Jethro Tull’s best.

  • Secret Squirrel

    Who to fuck is Jethro Tull ?

  • tacapall

    ps ‘Living In The Past’ is a good album, possibly Jethro Tull’s best.
    Posted by Driftwood on Jan 18, 2010 @ 08:21 PM

    It is relevent when people like yourself try to take the high moral ground and use it as excuses to hinder progress.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Driftwood,

    I’m glad you have accepted defeat, I think the hole you dug yourself into is almost in Sydney.

    I will be looking out for you and your ill informed knowledge. Remember, before you post get your facts right because DisgustedinDERRY will be waiting to pounce. Make sure your mammy tucks you in before the squaddies call over later, wouldn’t want those bad men corrupting your wee innocence and non conditioned mind.

  • Reader

    DisgustedinDerry: Are you suggesting that the para’s shot all the nailbombers before they could throw the devices. As I said above no devices, exploded or not, were presented to the Saville inquiry, can you suggest why this is? No you can’t, you are also an idiot!
    I haven’t claimed there were nail bombs – so why should I have to prove there were any? At this point you are primarily arguing with the voices in your head.
    Now – about that officer – what has he done wrong?

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Reader,

    An officer gives soldiers their orders.

    The soldiers who murdered on the 30th January 1972 were given orders by their officers.

    They shot dead UNARMED, INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

    The officers therefore should be jailed for ordering their soldiers to shoot dead UNARMED, INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

  • Kensei

    Reader

    A person with a nail bomb may or may not be guilty of attempted murder, depending on how lethal the bomb is, the distance of the attacker, whether they are chucking it at the soldier or vehicles, and quite a few other variables. Of course, in the case that it is attempted murder, the correct place to discern that and dish out punishment is the courts. Rather than summary execution. Course, they are edge cases whether someone acts in pure self defense. That wasn’t what happened on Bloody Sunday.

    And actually remarks do matter. Governments have been taken down by them, revolutions incited over them.

    Any other indefensible actions you’d care to defend?

    Driftwood

    I suppose to a paratrooper, a guy with a mask about to throw a nail bomb at you, and a panzergrenadier with a stick grenade, share the common trait of trying to kill you.

    If professional soldiers can’t determine the rules of the theatre in which they are serving, then they are either poorly trained, ill disciplined, or both.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Reader,
    Like Driftwood, must have admitted that he has no clue about the real truth of British governments involvement in murdering, directly or indirectly, the people whom they are charged with protecting. It’s a pity the said government has not the courage to admit this role – we cannot look to the future without first addressing the past.

    The loyalist organisations should now stick two fingers up to them and print all the instances they know of collusion and state murder. After all the British government did to loyalism what the US did to Bin Laden’s lot, abandoned them when they accepted they were in a no win situation.

    Now that would be both courageous and intelligent!!

  • Driftwood

    Kensei, the role of the regiment involved is thus:

    http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/regiments/3471.aspx

    To a hammer everything looks like a nail.

    They were told that they would be faced by armed insurgents. Which is , at least partly ,true.

    Then, between rioters and police/army there was a ‘Larne vs Newry’ moment when things got out of hand.
    What is it you think paratroopers are trained to do? Give out chocolate?
    It was a mistake to send them. no conspiracy.

    DiD, yes, whatever.

  • Secret Squirrel

    Pathetic.

  • Driftwood

    Secret Squirrel
    I disagree, but let’s look at the reviews:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-Past-Jethro-Tull/dp/B00002668Z/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1263858307&sr=1-1

    Not quite Zep 4 or Fairport Convention, but surely ranks along with Skynnrd?

  • Secret Squirrel

    Let’s not converse in hyperlinks. You’re attempting to portray the murderous british army as squeaky clean.
    You’re failing horribly, in my opinion.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Driftwood,

    If it was not pre planned why send in such a well (ill) trained regiment like the paras to sort out a civil problem. As I have already written, an English man, on his way to work on that morning, as he testified at the inquiry, was warned to tell his two sons to stay away as trouble was imminent. It was pre planned murder at the highest level of government.

    I hope your mammy’s moans didn’t wake you son, I bet she has a squaddie up every cavity. Don’t you worry now mammy isn’t crying, I bet she is smiling.

    Just you go back to sleep, those squaddies will turn off the rigged electric fire on the way out. You might have to make mammy toast in the morning she might be sore.

    Don’t start something you cannot finish, leave them tactics to the British government/army!!!

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk/index2.asp?p=6

    Statement made by Len Green to the Saville Inquiry, note the second in command of the British army in the North on the day addressing the officers, in other words giving them their orders, which in turn they gave to the soldiers!!

    His statement is HG51, fourth from top.

    Note this man is a former serving member of the British crown forces!!!

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk/index2.asp?p=6

    His statement is AG51, fourth from top.

  • Reader

    DisgustedinDerry: The officers therefore should be jailed for ordering their soldiers to shoot dead UNARMED, INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
    Only if you can show that’s what the officers did. You haven’t come near that.
    Kensei: Any other indefensible actions you’d care to defend?
    By all means challenge what I have *actually* said. But throughout, I have been specific – I am not your straw man.
    As for nail bombers – hypothetical or otherwise – If someone threw a nailbomb at you I don’t think you would accept any restrictions on your right to defend yourself and your fellows in the least risky and most effective manner possible. Soldiers are still citizens, you know. And no-one else on the planet thinks that nailbombers throw their bombs at vehicles when there are Brits on foot to throw the bombs at instead.
    DisgustedinDerry: as he testified at the inquiry, was warned to tell his two sons to stay away as trouble was imminent.
    Trouble *was* imminent. There was trouble *before* the paras fired the first shots. Anyone who knew that that protest was going to be blocked knew that there would be trouble.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Reader

    In your #8 post you write: “If someone was throwing nail bombs at you, wouldn’t you regard it as attempted murder”

    So you say you never suggested that nail bombers were present – I’m confused??

    You also write: “Only if you can show that’s what the officers did. You haven’t come near that”

    Are you suggesting that the terrorist (para) regiment were acting on their own initiative and that they were allowed to shoot freely without being given orders by their officers. Soldiers are trained to do only as the rank above them tell them to do, they do not act on their own without orders.

    So what you are now telling us is that the British army makes its decisions from the bottom up, don’t be silly, your arguments don’t have substance. Soldiers murdered unarmed citizens at the request of their officers as can be clearly heard in the recordings, you might have the manners to listen to the programme before voicing your idiotic opinion.

  • RepublicanStones

    So we see yet again, support for state murder and state terrorism is alive and well. Or at least pathetic attempts to defend it are.

    Aqualung rules.

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Pathetic indeed, that is the state of unionism in general. English, Scots, Welsh and Irish unionism that is.

  • Driftwood
  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Driftwood

    Did those noisy squaddies wake you up again son?

    Go to bed you know nothing, as many of us who posted on this tread have shown. Your arguments have been turned on their heads every time.

    By the way, wikipedia would not stand up in court as any Tom Dick or Harry can add to it without fact or evidence. Furthermore, if you gave your teacher an essay with a reference from it you would get a big F for FAIL, just as Operation Banner did!!!

    This won’t matter much to you though as primary school pupils aren’t expected to compile academic essays.

  • Reader

    DisgustedinDerry: So you say you never suggested that nail bombers were present – I’m confused??
    You complained about the officers’s answer to a question. I have said there was nothing wrong with his answer. His answer would have been valid on any day in history since the invention of nail bombs. At least Kensei nearly managed to take issue with what I actually said, not what he imagined I said.
    DisgustedinDerry: Soldiers are trained to do only as the rank above them tell them to do, they do not act on their own without orders.
    Soldiers are also given conditional orders, called ‘Rules of Engagement’. They can act on those rules too – correctly or incorrectly. I don’t think a single soldier who fired any shots claimed to have been acting on a direct order to open fire – they all claimed to be acting under the rules of engagement.
    But let’s have your thoughts on the matter – in your view, how many of the hundreds of soldiers on the streets that day were given a direct order to shoot at someone?

  • DisgustedinDERRY

    Reader

    Don’t try win an argument you lost long ago, the issue is whether or not an officer ordered his understudy robot to murder an unarmed civilian, something he clearly did.

    British government/army=murder/lies

    Don’t apologise as they already have, fool!!!