“If McGuinness was told what Adams knew when first he knew it, they share a problem”

With Sinn Féin TD Arthur Morgan still, apparently, unavailable to answer queries about the extent of Liam Adams’ involvement in the party in Co Louth, in the Irish Times Fionnuala O’Connor makes a sharp observation on the most recent photographic, and archived, evidence.

From the Irish Times article

The Sinn Féin figureheads built their joint image cannily. McGuinness came forward from the shadows of paramilitarism to stand at the right hand of Adams while the Belfastman talked “the movement” towards the primacy of politics. McGuinness was there initially as the incorruptible militant, to counteract suspicion of Adams as too political to be trustworthy. Not long into the “process”, McGuinness’s personability became a major asset in negotiations. Some time later the family man image in tweed jacket and woolly pullovers began to count as electoral appeal.

Allies throughout their war, the two men are obligated to each other for the peace they jointly manoeuvred into being. The family without a scandal does not exist, and the tragedy behind what Adams revealed over Christmas may give McGuinness pause. But this pair come out of a ruthless school. Sinn Féin already had difficulties enough: today, after the downfall of the Catholic Church, republicans must at last know that closing ranks around social deviants is the biggest threat to their own communal standing. If McGuinness heard about the Adams family traumas no earlier than the public, it is hard to imagine empathy in those cool eyes. If McGuinness was told what Adams knew when first he knew it, they share a problem.

And there are still those other questions about events post-1998.

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  • sluggisht
  • Not sure why Fionnuala would want to stop at Mc Guinness, surely Blair, Orde, MI5, Woodward et al were all in the know.

    Personal tragedies like in the Robinsons case should be be based on clear evidence of law breaking or be left well alone.

  • You’d almost think from O’Connor’s writing that social or sexual deviancy was worse than that other strand of deviancy: paramilitarism. I thought both Adams and McGuinness came forward from the ‘shadows of paramilitarism’ but there you go.

  • Scaramoosh

    If covering up sexual abuse is a worse crime than covering up murder, then why do we still have a Catholic Church in Ireland?

  • Rory Carr

    “If McGuinness was told what Adams knew when first he knew it, they share a problem.”

    Yes, Fionnuala, very good (and thank you, Pete)…and if my auntie had balls she’d be my uncle.

    The old ones are the best and a great standby in times of scarcity, whether of wit or inspiration.

  • Paddy

    She makes a valid point. Was McGuinness told “our Liam” had a bit of form with the kiddies? or was McGuinesss kept in the dark as he might have been morally outraged?

    Indeed, the old ones are best. How about: What would morally outrage Martin would turn the rest of us grey?

    Maybe Martin should carry a moral bell too, to warn us, leper like, of his approach.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    I just read in nuzhound that the Boston Globe is calling for Adams to leave….that demo’s what I’ve been saying…American’s are disgusted with what Gerry Adams has done…or better yet…failed to do.

  • Was Liam Adams involved in political campaigning in Donegal alongside Martin McGuinness and/or Gerry Adams?

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathy Collins

    Hi Nevin,

    Liam Adams was involved in raping his daughter. Martin McGuinness was seen by his side in a photo op for sinn fein…Gerry Adams beleiving his brother Liam had raped Gerry’s niece from the age of 4…campaigned with the man he belived was a child rapist. There was no outrage that a young child had been raped…only photo ops promoting themselves and sinn fein.

  • joeCanuck

    Kathy C,

    Couple of points; The allegation was sexual abuse which may or may not have involved rape and the allegation has not been tested.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    Hi Joe, it doesn’t matter. What does is that Gerry Adams said he BELIEVED his niece. So ergo…every action after that time is based that Gerry was dealing with his brother whom he believed had raped his daughter starting at age 4.

    Where in all this is Gerry’s outrage that he believed his brother was a child rapist? We can only go on gerry’s actions…and what were they…appearing in public and campaigning with his brother…going to his brother’s wedding…[text removed – mods] Just thinnk of the political liability Gerry has placed martin mcguiness…mitchel mcghlaulin…Morgan…there are several people tarnished in all of this.

    What is also a factor…gerry BELIEVING his niece set up a meeting for his brother (whom he believed raped the child) to meet with the child. That is so twisted. What amazes me…is that liam adams was able to walk around…what happened to the knee caping of people who did unsocial things….I guess it was ok unless you are the brother of the president of sinn fein

  • Alias

    “The Sinn Féin figureheads built their joint image cannily. McGuinness came forward from the shadows of paramilitarism to stand at the right hand of Adams while the Belfastman talked “the movement” towards the primacy of politics. McGuinness was there initially as the incorruptible militant, to counteract suspicion of Adams as too political to be trustworthy.”

    She has it right that Adams and McGuinness led ‘the movement’ to endorse the legitimacy of British sovereignty that it had rejected as a core principle but she creates the bogus impress they that decided to hoodwink their own hard-line supporters on their own initiative.

    The strategy of converting anti-state groups into pro-state groups was in fact the strategy of the British government and its security services. As Thatcher put it “The minority should be led to support or at least acquiesce in the constitutional framework of the state in which they live.” (Thatcher, 1993, p.384)

    She also made it clear that acceptance of the legitimacy of British sovereignty was basis for the 1986 Anglo-Irish Agreement (and this was accepted by the Irish government who conceded the principle for the first time in that agreement). Acceptance of the legitimacy of British sovereignty was also the basis for the GFA negotiations, as set out by Major’s government in the Downing Street Declaration in 1993.

    The Shinners still try to spin this close alliance between the British government and the Shinners as evidence that the British state is promoting a republican agenda when the reality is that the Shinners are promoting a British state agenda and that is why they enjoy the support of the British state.

    That ‘close alliance’ is also the reason why the bulk of the media in NI – who have always supported the security policy of the British state – are not asking any “stupid” questions of Gerry Adams if those questions might jeopardise his position or, more pertinently, are not asking any stupid questions to those agencies that Mr Adams claimed to have spoken to about his brother lest it be confirmed by such investigative reporting that Mr Adams has been economical with the truth. Any questions they do ask will only be asked when it is safe to ask them, i.e. when there is no longer a risk that public pressure could make the position of Mr Adams untenable – and, of course, they will then only be asked to place it on historical record that are not as state-compliant as some would claim.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    on the sinn fein web site…there is a news brief that states

    “Sinn Féin call for enquiry into Postal office abuse towards the Irish language
    Sinn Féin MLA, Carál Ní Chuilín,…”

    I find it disgusting that abuse of words mean more to sinn fein and they want an inquiry into that rather than the sexual abuse of a child connected to their party leaders family

  • granni trixie

    This week’s Andytown News following the SF party line – the ‘spin’ that “poor Gerry has to deal with family problems” – which is the thrust of a full page of good wishes from locals (AND from the Basque country,natch)..Significantly, no focus on HOW Gerry dealt with the problem (which is what many would criticise him for) namely he tried to keep the problem of abuse, and the victim’s story, under wraps until she had had enough of his runaround and found her public voice.

  • Alias

    Perfidious Provos, eh? The British political establishment would like Gerry to stop interfering with Marty’s good work in administrating British rule b seeking to impose a greener tint to his progress but the British security establishment take the view that the greener tint is needed to keep the bus on the road, so while the political establishment want Gerry to go the security establishment see him as an indispensable asset. As Mr Ingram used to say “Ding! Ding!”

    Arguing about the Irish language make them look ‘all nationalist and stuff’ so that’s Gerry influence.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    Hi Alias, I agree with you…it is to make sf look nationalist…but such a word used…’abuse’ rather sickening.

    Hi grannin trixie, all the good well wishes are just from people who want the ‘king’ to politically survive because they have a stake in his political sphere. But with the Boston Globe calling for his resignation….or basically he should just stay home with his family…it shows that sinn fein has lost major American support and witihout that…they do not have the large deep pockets of money. It is so ironic that Gerry Adams through the british agent Denis Donaldson who was Gerry and martin’s man in the states….went after Americans like myself who did not think the leadership of sinn fein was following an Irish Republic agenda. Now…it might be the drying up of American support for adams thus drying up the money…that will force sinn fein members to agree with the Boston Globe…gerr has to go. Here’s hoping!

  • fitzy

    posted by Kathleen Collins
    I just read in nuzhound that the Boston Globe is calling for Adams to leave….that demo’s what I’ve been saying…American’s are disgusted with what Gerry Adams has done…or better yet…failed to do. ”

    KC… I think you’re reading a bit much into this piece. While the globe article is definitely a setback to the shinners’ egos and PR machine, i don’t think it will hit their pocket book nearly as much. the vast majority yanks’ support for sinn fein over the years has definitely been based on a sort of blind and romantic patriotism. i don’t see that base of support eroding much. i’d bet old beardy buck’s next gala at the plaza will sell out just as fast as the last one.

    don’t get me wrong, I think even the staunchest supporters will be offended, disappoint, even disgusted… then i think they’ll get their check books out and donate.

  • tacapall

    don’t get me wrong, I think even the staunchest supporters will be offended, disappoint, even disgusted… then i think they’ll get their check books out and donate.

    Thats right fitzy “You Think” thats not the same as “you know” The truth is that the Andytown News has censored the negative texts regarding Gerry’s moral behavour regarding Aine’s accusations. Like the old saying goes ” You can fool some of the people some of the time but you cant fool all of the people all of the time”.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    ” You can fool some of the people some of the time but you cant fool all of the people all of the time”.

    [not applicable in Northern Ireland]

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    Hi fitzy, I’m a Yank and they aint getting any of my money

  • fitzy

    tacapal… you think or you know that “The truth is that the Andytown News has censored the negative texts regarding Gerry’s moral behavour regarding Aine’s accusations”… I guess we’ll see at the next election, but I wouldn’t expect the SDLP to pick up w. belfast.

    KC… I was of course speaking in general about yanks. it’s quite obvious that you won’t be reaching into your pocket for gerry adams, but i think plenty of others will…