“Pages of half truths, opinions, bias, lies.”

According to Gerry Adams’ latest post at “This Blog”, “[He] stopped buying the Sunday papers about ten years ago.” And a message to the faithful, “‘[He’ll] tell you about the ones with their own wee agenda some other time’ [he] smiled. They usually write for the Sunday World, the Sunday Times, papers of that ilk.” So don’t worry your little heads about questions over his brother Liam’s time in Sinn Féin in Dundalk. Or about questions over his brother Liam’s time in west Belfast between 1998-2006. Or the question of whom, exactly, Gerry claims to have informed at Clonard about those [1987] allegations? Or why, if because of Gerry Adams’ intervention, when Clonard Youth Centre stopped employing Liam Adams in 2003 no-one passed that information any further? Or why the Clonard Youth Centre has no record of anyone raising any concerns? Or why Liam Adams’ employment as a youth worker in west Belfast apparently ended just before Aine Tyrell decided to reactivate the case against her father in 2007 – after 5 years of Gerry Adams promising, but failing, to arrange a meeting between the two? Or any other “stupid” questions. Sure, “It goes with the territory”. Doesn’t it? Adds Two of the people in the Dundalk photographs contradict the official Sinn Féin line.

According to former SF election agent Fra Browne, Liam Adams was an active and well-known member of SF Dundalk in the 1990s. “Arthur Morgan has been quoted as saying Liam didn’t register on the richter scale. That’s not true. Liam was a contender for nomination as a candidate in the 1997 election,” said Mr Browne. “There were two contenders, Liam Adams and Owen Hanratty. However, a number of people in the party were concerned because Liam was from Belfast. “We wanted to put forward a local candidate. When Liam saw the anger that was there he withdrew his name. He was certainly an active Sinn Féin person in Dundalk.”

, , , , , ,

  • Paul

    good post peter

  • heamaisbharney

    Those old Sunday papers, shucks folks, I can just image good aul Gerry saying to ‘yer man’ , after getting permission from Clonard to work on a Sunday, “Pass me a plate of Irish stew, a bottle of porter and me rosary beads. After that I’ll sharpen me scythe and cut the rushes in the garden to make the childers beds. Isn’t that a better thing for a true Irishman to be doing than reading them aul Sunday papers? Isn’t them aul papers that has us destroyed for hundreds of years? Squinter was good enough for me father and his father (except the odd time when I had to call him in, Squinter, not me father,)and why do people be reading them aul papers on Sunday?”

  • percy

    well its good to know you care peter and paul. Gotta hand it to you,
    ya can tell by the last blog
    on Leargas that Gerry Adams is well and truly worried.
    How do you guys manage it?
    What’s the secret of your success?

  • Blair

    “What’s the secret of your success?”

    Gerry Adams MP.

  • “Better buying a decent novel” .. GA

    On the other hand you could always buy:

    At home my father was scraping muck off his boots.

    “Da,” I said, “can I go down to Kennedy’s Bakery in the morning and get a pillow slip of mixed-ups?'” ..

    “What do you mean, blow them up?” I asked.

    “You can put a straw up its arse and blow it up,” Frank said.

    GA, ‘Before the Dawn’

  • Dixie Elliott

    I wonder was ‘Yer man’ a very large white rabbit called Harvey?

  • It seems SF TD Arthur Morgan has also got involved in the lies on behalf of his party leader but this isn’t going down well with the Louth natives. Some of them have spoken to the Dundalk Democrat about what they remember about Liam Adams time in Dundalk. Link below:

    http://url.ie/4gmx

  • Mr Crowley

    Gerry’s claim that he hasn’t bought a Sunday paper in 10 years has been debunked as well. He bought the Sunday Tribune this very week. http://thepensivequill.am/2009/12/no-sundays.html

  • Gerry has been caught out yet again, ah but hold on maybe he wasnt writing the piece on his blog in the first place, it was a guest piece from Martín or perhaps it was Brownie.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathy Collins

    Applause for Fra Browne!

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathy Collins

    Hi Dumb Yank, We both posted at the same time and I didn’t read your comments until after my post.
    I feel the reason Adams actions is such an important issue to discuss is if like Gerry adams stated…he believed his brother sexually abused his niece in the 80’s and then is seen in photo;s campaiging with his brother in the 90’s…he looks like a total scum bag. Liam, Gerry believes is a child rapist…and as such…he campaigned with child rapist? It reminds me of the Bishops of the Catholic Church…they new some priest were sexually abusing children…and they moved them around Ireland…sorta like Gerry did with his brother…moved him from Belfast…to Dundalk. It is morally wrong for the bishops and it is morally wrong for gerry adams.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    You’ve got to hand it him, how many people needing to salvage their career in the face of accusations of covering up child abuse and also submit something for their creative writing class would try to kill two birds with one stone?

  • Jimmy_Sands

    “Adams didn’t cover up anything and didn’t abuse anyone.”

    Unless you count all the murders and such. Assuming they never bothered you I agree it’s hard to see why you should suddenly get worked up by this.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    I take your point. There is so much attention given to the murders carried out by the IRA that we often forget to give them credit for the ones they didn’t. I also take your point that it was really the police’s fault foe asking about other crimes being committed by her uncle. I hope she complained to her MP.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    My apologies. I’ll let you get back.

  • Lionel Hutz

    It does seem a bit silly to try to deflect any criticism of GA by blaming the RUC. It is another parallel with the Church child abuse scandals that the police and the state as a whole share some culpability. That doesn’t affect what the Church did and it doesn’t affect what GA did.

    Gerry didn’t abuse anyone. Ofcourse that’s true ( any fool trying to bring the history of the troubles into this is doing a disservice)! However, he has clearly lied and tried to play the victim in recent weeks. Worst of all, he has atleast known about his brother positions in his party and as a youth worker and would I’m sure have played some part in arranging that. Those are two very grave sins. The auxilliary bishops of Dublin may not have abused anyone but their complicity and/or negligience in allowing abusers to continue in positions of trust is a great sin. Supporters of Gerry surely must see the parallels

  • Lionel Hutz

    It does seem a bit silly to try to deflect any criticism of GA by blaming the RUC. It is another parallel with the Church child abuse scandals that the police and the state as a whole share some culpability. That doesn’t affect what the Church did and it doesn’t affect what GA did.

    Gerry didn’t abuse anyone. Ofcourse that’s true ( any fool trying to bring the history of the troubles into this is doing a disservice)! However, he has clearly lied and tried to play the victim in recent weeks. Worst of all, he has atleast known about his brother positions in his party and as a youth worker and would I’m sure have played some part in arranging that. Those are two very grave sins. The auxilliary bishops of Dublin may not have abused anyone but their complicity and/or negligience in allowing abusers to continue in positions of trust is a great sin. Supporters of Gerry surely must see the parallels

  • Lionel, it’s more than likely that Gerry Adams did much worse than abuse children sexually.

    It the light of what he knew and apparently what some in the PRM didn’t know he must have been squirming when his colleagues in the Dáil laid into the Irish hierarchy and Irish government over their child protection strategies.

  • the future is bright the future is orange

    2 things that have come out of this:

    1. Gerry lies every time he opens his mouth. The bit about the newspapers is actually quite funny. Someone should really make a documentary about the number of times this guy has been caught out – wasn’t there something about a song he used to sing is prison recently?

    2. No-one who votes for SF actually cares about the above and about what the likes of gerry/marty have done. Any other political party on the western world and all hell would be unleashed but the westies just shrug their shoulders and move on. What’s the deal? Are these folk brain-washed or just don’t give a s***?

    It’s beginning to look like Gerry is fair game at the minute so expect a few more ‘revalations’ in the sunday tabs, not that big G will be reading them…

  • Comrade Stalin

    USA [That’s a Yellow CS – you of all people should know that playing the ball is critical to reasoned debate – Mods]

    This story is a political football. Adams didn’t cover up anything

    Yes, he did. He claimed recently that he acted to have his brother removed from Sinn Fein as soon as he found out he was involved. Pictures printed in the newspapers recently show that this was false, and prove that he canvassed and worked with his brother even though he was aware of the allegations. So why did he lie ? What else has he lied about ? Is it possible to trust anything that he says ? Would you want a political leader who may have provided cover and job security to someone he knew was a sex offender ?

    Furthermore, did Gerry Adams have any knowledge of the alleged intervention of Father Troy and his efforts to persuade Aine not to go to the police ? If he did, then that’s even more evidence of a cover up.

    and didn’t abuse anyone.

    Yes, that’s true. But hang on :

    The child was actually referred to the RUC and social services at the time of the incident.

    The RUC didn’t abuse anyone. The social services didn’t abuse anyone. So based on your standards, they have nothing to answer for. Yes ?

    Let’s get real. The RUC and social services failed in their responsibility to ensure that a vulnerable victim of sex abuse received the appropriate care and that the perpetrator of the crimes against her was punished. Gerry Adams likewise failed in those same responsibilities.

    USA:

    Congratulations Jimmy, that’s four posts in a row from you that make no sense.

    Read the posts again. Jimmy was suggesting that you were the village idiot. Jesus H Christ up a stick, why do Americans always need this stuff explained to them ?

  • Paul

    dundalk democrat
    Published Date: 30 December 2009
    By Tamara O’Connell
    TWO men have refuted a statement made by Sinn Féin (SF) TD Arthur Morgan that suspected paedophile Liam Adams was not a high profile member of the party in Dundalk.

    Locals Fra Browne and Owenie Hanratty told The Dundalk Democrat that their recollection of Liam Adams’ involvement in SF Dundalk differed from Morgan’s.

    According to former SF election agent Fra Browne, Liam Adams was an active and well-known member of SF Dundalk in the 1990s.

    “Arthur Morgan has been quoted as saying Liam didn’t register on the richter scale. That’s not true. Liam was a contender for nomination as a candidate in the 1997 election,” said Mr Browne.

    “There were two contenders, Liam Adams and Owen Hanratty. However, a number of people in the party were concerned because Liam was from Belfast.

    “We wanted to put forward a local candidate. When Liam saw the anger that was there he withdrew his name. He was certainly an active Sinn Féin person in Dundalk.”

    The candidacy was secured by Owenie Hanratty who was later photographed on the campaign trail with Liam and Gerry Adams. Hanratty’s wife, Marie, and Mr Browne also posed for the picture in June 1997.

    No-one in the photograph, except for SF President Gerry Adams, knew that Liam Adams was a suspected paedophile, accused of sexually abusing his daughter, Aine Tyrell.

    “I don’t want to say too much. I’d rather not get into a bun fight with Arthur Morgan but my recollection of Liam Adams’ involvement in the party is different to his,” said Mr Hanratty.

    “No-one in Sinn Féin DundaIk had any idea about the accusations made against Liam Adams.”

    Liam Adams, who is wanted by the PSNI following claims that he sexually abused his daughter from the age of four, gave himself up to Gardai earlier this week.

    He walked into a Garda station in Sligo but could not be detained as they did not have the right warrant. He is said to have left his contact details at the station.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathy Collins

    Hi Dumb Yank, Thanks for responding back. For me it all boils down to something very fundemental. Gerry Adams said he beilved his niece that his brother was sexually abusing and raping her. This was in the 80’s and she was 14. There is a major ‘ick’ factor involved to say the least. Now at the time…in republican areas there was no police…ok… So what did the people do…and what were they supposed to do. They went to the authority of the area which was the IRA and Sinn Fein. These groups had ways of dealing with rapist…. This young raped girl went to one of the most powerful man in the movemenet who had lots of contact–her uncle Gerry Adams. What happened???? He tried to have a meeting between the child and her rapist????? Another huge–“ick”. The rapist should have been beaten up…it was their rules–not mine. Gerry should not have campaigned with a man that he felt was a child rapist….I don’t care what the political mood of the times was…that action was just plain WRONG> Ick Ick Ick

  • Brian MacAodh

    Who else would West Belfast vote for? SDLP? A unionist?

  • Jimmy_Sands

    True, if you’re ok with murder but draw the line at kiddy fiddling there really aren’t too many options.

  • tacapall

    True, if you’re ok with murder but draw the line at kiddy fiddling there really aren’t too many options.

    Of course there is options ! If the accusations surrounding Adams (Gerry) are true then there are plenty of honourable men around that will stand against him, look at Hodgies, west belfast people are not all sheep.

  • Slartibuckfast

    [i]”I also take your point that it was really the police’s fault foe asking about other crimes being committed by her uncle. I hope she complained to her MP.”[/i]

    Hard to fathom how one can become so subhuman that he sees nothing wrong with a so-called police force abusing further an abused child who came to them for help. Are these West Brit creatures born as depraved or is their subhumanity forced on them by being bummed by their da’s or something. Anyone? Malachi?

  • heamaisbharney

    “He is essentially an ordinary citizen in this situation.” USA

    Not at all, he was a powerful figure within the republican movement, an M.P. as well as an older brother of the man he believed had raped his own child and he neglected to deal with that brother in any shape or form. His niece has denied that he went to social services with her and has said of Gerry Adams, “I ended up saying look do you know what it is, you have failed me again, when twenty years later I’ve asked you to do one thing.”, To say that he went to high ranking police figures at a later date means nothing more than he became aware the case was coming back and though he better make it look good. he allowed his brother to work in Sinn Fein and with children for years after he knew he was alleged to be a child rapist. When three provos were wanted for kidnapping and beating a ‘dissident’ Gerry and Sinn Fein immediately went public carling on them to hand themselves in bu tin Liam’s case he waited until the proverbial hit the fan. A hypocrite and a liar, and a bad one to boot.

  • Slartibuckfast

    I think the contributor who is all for the police recruiting sexually abused children to spy on paramilitaries should show us all the way as regards spying on such and sign himself up as a spy and go live along the Fermanagh border region or the Bogside or wherever those dissident groups are strong. And, really, I hope we all get to hear of how successful he is in that venture.

  • Pete Baker

    Slarti

    You’re labouring under a misapprehension.

    Go watch the UTV Insight programme again.

    The complaint by Aine’s mother was that the police asked her about who else was going in and out of the house – not Aine.

    And, in a case of alleged child abuse, that’s not an unreasonable question to ask.

  • Slartibuckfast

    He wrote:

    [i]I also take your point that it was really the police’s fault foe asking about other crimes being committed by her uncle. I hope she complained to her MP.[/i]

    No, who’s uncle would he be referring to? Aine’s mother’s uncle? What has he got to do with all this? The contributor clearly meant that he would have no problem with the RUC abusing the child even more by trying to recruit her as a spy. Afterall, it is her uncle he refers to. “her uncle” See?

  • Pete Baker

    Slarti

    The contributor you’re referring to, and the ‘Dumb Yank’ he was responding to, are also labouring under a misapprehension and should watch the UTV Insight programme again.

  • Slartibuckfast

    Whether they are or aren’t isn’t the point really.

    And where can this program now be watched? I missed it when it was on.

  • Pete Baker

    Here you go, Slarti.

    UTV Insight Special [18 days left to watch it again]

  • Slartibuckfast

    Thanks for that, I will watch that tomorrow.

  • Blair

    Her mother decided that the police were trying to recruit them as informers when the police started asking some very routine questions. The brainwashing goes deep you see. The “whatabout the RUC” defence doesn’t cut it in the real world.

  • Alias

    “And, in a case of alleged child abuse, that’s not an unreasonable question to ask.” – Pete Baker

    If she says that the police seemed more interesting in recruiting her as an informer than in investigating her daughter’s alleged rape then it is more reasonable to assume that she can tell the difference between police asking questions that are related to that investigation and questions that are related to intelligence-gathering and her willingness to co-operate in it. After all, she was there and you were not.

    The police don’t recruit informers by offering them a job. They do it by getting the potential informant to give trivial information in return for some favour. After they have given soft information they are then compromised, and the police can later demand hard information under the threat of exposing them as an informant. After they provide the ‘hard’ information demanded, they are then in deeper as the severity of the consequences of being revealed as a tout increases accordingly. The state-sponsored ISU “nutting squad” reinforces this fear of the consequences exposure, becoming an indispensible part of the informant recruitment process.

    That is the “coercion” part of MICE that the rape victim’s mother was referring to. In her case, the police would likely have created the impression that a prosecution of her daughter’s rapist was dependent upon her providing the initial soft intelligence.

  • Blair

    Alias,

    I would suggest that the police could not properly investigate a case of child abuse without asking background questions which would have the wife of a convicted Provo flapping like a budgie. Esprcially in 1987.

  • Pete Baker

    Yes ‘Alias’

    Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.

    But useless speculation is just a distraction from the topic.

    Let’s try to keep to that.

    It wasn’t pressure from the police that led to Aine deciding not to proceed with the charges.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I am always confused by your blind dislike of anything American.

    I generally like Americans, I have several American friends, and as such visit the place once a year. Sadly I haven’t made it there this year.

    Did you figure out Jimmy’s humour yet ?

    The only difference I may have with your concluding statement is that Gerry Adams did not have the statutory authority to proceed with prosecutions and investigations which the police and social services have

    Not disputed.

    The crux of the matter here is that we are not talking about an ordinary bloke. We are talking about a person who styles himself as the leader of Irish nationalism. The same controversy would arise around any political leader, and indeed it did over f.ex the Kincora scandals years ago. There is no politician in the civilized world who would survive it.

  • Slartibuckfast

    [i]There is no politician in the civilized world who would survive it.[/i]

    Yes, but what about here?

  • Jimmy_Sands

    “it is all a distraction from the issue of child abuse in the North. ”

    How does that work? Are we taking up bandwidth which would otherwise be protecting children from harm? Of course you’re right about point scoring. I despise the man and like nothing more than seeing my prejudices confirmed. In fairness of course I must admit I doubt there is anything grisly could have done that would have protected that child (although he will no doubt be praying to whatever foul demon he worships that no other victims come forward from his later youth work). Meanwhile I will take sadistic delight in watching him tie himself up with his increasingly implausible lies, and the pathetic efforts of his groupies to believe him. It may be childish I grant you, but a lot less creepy than arguing that for a child being raped regularly by your father is really no worse than the “abuse” of being asked a couple of questions by the trevors.

  • Slartibuckfast

    Really, consider my idea of you putting yourself forward as a spy in the Bogside. I really want to hear how it all turns out.

    Of course you’d rather have sexually abused children taken advantage of yet again by predators so they can do it all for you, and let them face the consequences of that themselves. Apparently that form of abuse is okay though if their fathers have raped them.

    But, still an all, please consider my idea.

  • Slartibuckfast

    USA,

    Yes his argument in the defence of child abuse is it’s okay if the child has already been abused and if the latter abuse isn’t as bad as the former abuse. What he’s saying is that some forms of child abuse committed on an already abused child shouldn’t really bother people because the child has suffered worse abuse and therefore should be used to it all. All this is okay because he hates the Provos and wants them to be shown right from wrong.

  • Slartibuckfast

    Now me what?

  • Jimmy_Sands

    USA,

    It’s grotesque to suggest that there is any comparison to be made at all. And if the victim ultimately felt that she could not go through with her complaint without compromising her family’s other criminal activities then that is hardly the fault of the police.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    Not at all. In the end the complaint was withdrawn because they were unable to accept that the police have an obligation to investigate all criminal offences committed by the Adams clan, not just the ones committed against immediate family. I have no objection to the police investigating terrorists. This is where we differ.

  • Lionel Hutz

    USA,

    It’s not like there is a single pot of blame that is being disproportionately served. Every agent in this episode shares some blame.

    I wonder what systematic failings you are talking about with the police and social services. This is not the “lammy” tragedy where a CONVICTED sex offender was downgraded. A complaint was made against and promptly withdrawn in 1987. Due process would dictate that Liam Adams could not be placed on sex offenders register – yes we have one too. He is actually still innocent until proven guilty you know – something we seem to place more significance on than in the US. By the way anyone, if anyone cries foul at that statement, then Liam Adams’ solicitor may have a point.

    As far as the police go, there was little they could do to investigate a claim that was not being substantiated, particularly in West Belfast in the 80s. I don’t know what they could have done.

    Now the failure to have a European Arrest Warrant in place when LA turned up in Sligo, well that is laughable incompetence. Now I’m not saying it shouldn’t be looked at – by the Ombudsman for example- but I don’t know how helpful it will be for the future in investigating a claim. It was a different time. Lammy should provide enough of a stick to whip them into shape.

    The point with Gerry is that he is lying- lying now. He covered it up and lied and he may have used his position to allow someone he believed to be s child rapist to work with children. It’s appalling

  • Lionel Hutz

    Without wishing to make little of those crimes, 3 examples of sex offenders over a 20 year year period is hardly indicative of a system in meltdown particularly as the problems were each in different areas.

    I imagine with Mr Hamilton, you are mocking the criminal justice system and lenient sentenceing and doing so I’ll relegate you to a typical “thank-you m’lud” Sun reader – perhaps you get daily news from FOX. There were mitigating factors for his first crimes but perhaps that sentence was too lenient. I know there were legitimate reasons, as ge is not a person who is being treated leniently since the murder of Attracta Haron, being the first person to receive a full life tarriff in the UK, alhough this was reduced to a mere 35 years.

    The McElhill/Lammy tragedy, as I say, will leave some big questions but I suspect it will boil down to poor judgement of someone on the probation or social services doing a very difficult job. He was downgraded to low risk as is natural for historic offences. It was a mistake but this is a remarkably difficult area to police. Domestic Violence in all it’s forms always has been and always will be. Mistakes will be made that will sometimes lead to nothing but occasionally result in tragedy.

    That’s a very interesting question but you still haven’t explained the systematic failings in this case or what you think we will learn from the failings of a now non-existamt police force in a trouble spot in a time civil conflict. Their should have been more policing? – a revelation indeed.

    With Gerry Adams, he says that he believed the allegations, so much so that he is now calling on his brother to hand himself in. It’s not as if the allegations are any different, it’s just now it’s gone public. He may have sidestepped matters in the family that is quite natural but it seems that he also proactively endorsed and supported this man who he believed to be a paedophile in his role as a youth worker. If Barack Obama did that, would you let it slide?

  • Blair

    “Lionel’s final statement above speaks to the point, “he may have used his position to allow someone he believed to be
    “He may have”….”someone he believed”.
    It’s all guess work, it not “someone he knew to be”, or “someone convicted of…” ”

    USA,

    But there is no guesswork involved here. Uncle Gerry has stated clearly on television that he believed the allegations being made by his niece.

    Therefore he was seen canvasing in Dundalk with a man that he fully believed to be a paedophile. A man he also had to be very much aware was also working with children.

    Nothing can distract from that.

  • Slartibuckfast

    [i]”I have no objection to the police investigating terrorists. This is where we differ.”[/i]

    You have no objection to the ‘police’ trying to take further advantage of a sexually abused girl in order to use her terrible situation to their own advantage in matters unrelated to her situation, something that would cause more distress to the abused child and would make her situation even worse. This is where you anyone remotely human differs.

  • Slartibuckfast

    [i]”In the end the complaint was withdrawn because they were unable to accept that the police have an obligation to investigate all criminal offences committed by the Adams clan, not just the ones committed against immediate family.”[/i]

    See, what’s he’s saying here is that if the sexually abused child wasn’t prepared to become a spy for the police then how dare she complain that her father had raped her.

  • Blair

    The girl had no choice in the matter. Her mother took her away from the police when they asked her were her father was living. That in her republican mind was “touting”.

  • Slartibuckfast

    “They started asking where Liam lived at the time, and who went in and out of his flat.”

    Please can some contributors here stop insulting our intelligence. Thank you.

  • Slartibuckfast

    [i]”although he will no doubt be praying to whatever foul demon he worships that no other victims come forward from his later youth work”[/i]

    And no doubt you and others will be praying that they do.

  • Brian MacAodh

    The fact that Gerry has stated he believed his niece closed some loopholes he might have legitimately used to wiggle out of his lives. If he wasn’t sure, if really didn’t know the truth, it would not have been as bad for him to act as he did.

    But to say he believed his brother was a child rapist and then campaign with him (and lie about it now), etc. is the issue.

  • querulus

    USA
    I agree with some of what you appear to be thinking in that the focus of many contributions is on G Adams and how he can be damaged. To me the only focus at present, until court is over, ought to be on the welfare of the victim, Aine, and on minimising the risk to her case in any trial. The behaviour most in question is Liam Adams’. While I have a prejudice in favour of her as the victim, nothing should be said or done either to damage Liam Adams’ right to be tried fairly.

    If you are annoyed by others attacking G Adams as a distraction (it is all a distraction from the issue of child abuse in the North – post 1 above) you appear just as keen to distract. The issue is not ‘child abuse in the north’ – it is about child abuse in one home, Liam Adams’. Why do you want to broaden this to the whole country?

    However when the courts have settled one way or another what happened in Liam Adams’ home I certainly believe the role of the police, social services, G Adams, Fr Troy, youth contact by Liam Adams’ etc etc all need to be examined.

    What is the relevance of the Lammy fire – that has been in the news here recently, I think it was the Inquest? What did the police do wrong, or do badly? I don’t remember any criticism of them. You are right in suggesting G Adams was not responsible for Lammy but suggest that the police and social services were. Did the Inquest suggest that? I don’t remember that it did. Why did you not suggest the fire service were to blame too?

    What have the police done badly in the Hamilton case – seems to me they caught him once and got him convicted, then caught him again and got him convicted in a short space of time? What did the social services do wrong in this case either? The sentence seemed lenient for the first case but what had that to do with police or social services?

    Are you suggesting we should have police in every school here? There are teachers with responsibilities for pastoral care and NSPCC I think have counsellors in some schools. They should be able to help where children have problems. I am not sure I would have wanted a daily police presence in my children’s school.

  • Pete Baker

    USA

    The “system” for vetting individuals who are working with children – involving police, social services, and employers – has already been reviewed.

    And the recommendations of that review have been implemented.

    I’ve already noted that review and the changes implemented here.

    It’s also linked in the original post.

  • Blair

    Some contributors to this board would do well to watch the UTV programme. The girls’ mother took her out of the police station. When later in adulthood she considered going back to the police she was pressured out of it by Sinners, and was later given the dubious pleasure of a pastoral visit from Aidan Troy.

  • Slartibuckfast

    [i]”Some contributors to this board would do well to watch the UTV programme. The girls’ mother took her out of the police station. When later in adulthood she considered going back to the police she was pressured out of it by Sinners, and was later given the dubious pleasure of a pastoral visit from Aidan Troy.”[/i]

    How all of that somehow proves the false claim that cops didn’t try to use the girl’s plight for their own ends is beyond any sane person’s reckoning.

  • Lionel Hutz

    Neither Lammy or Hamilton are relevant.

    I take the point that querulus and USA make in so far as the Gerry Adams part of this is getting more coverage than the crime. However i think Liam Adams is getting the same coverage as any on the run rapist and Aine Tyrell as much as any victim. Wait until the court case for all that.

    The point with Gerry is more pressing insofar as he is a leading representative treating the population as fools

  • Jimmy_Sands

    “Some contributors to this board would do well to watch the UTV programme.”

    How would that help them blame it all on the peelers?

  • Blair

    The only evidence we have that the police did anything other than carry out a normal investigative interview is the fact that her mother decided that they were trying to make touts of them. Given that they were reporting a senior Provo for a serious crime that was exactly what, in the eyes of the Provos, they were doing.

    If you were reporting someone as a paedophile do you not think it would be fairly routine for the police to ask where he lived and who he associated with?

  • Slartibuckfast

    [i]”How would that help them blame it all on the peelers?[/i]

    Worse even than blaming it all on the peelers is someone blaming it all on the child for not being a spy.

  • Slartibuckfast

    Blair,

    You know what they were doing as well as any of us know what they were doing. Why pretend otherwise? It’s not as if anyone is going to believe otherwise, not even you.

  • Blair

    Why would they bother to recruit the wife and child when the Provo himself was ripe for the picking?

  • Slartibuckfast

    Why not recruit all? They get the wife to start giving up information like that and then they’ve got her.

  • Lionel Hutz

    Boring conspiracy theories

  • Blair

    Because that would leave too many trails and too many chances for things to go wrong. Consider this. If a fourteen year old abused girl had been recruited as a tout would there not be good chance of her breaking under the pressure? Would that breakdown not bring the whole sorry story out and lead directly to her father’s door?

  • Slartibuckfast

    I’m not the one who is saying that they were trying to recruit the child. That was another’s wet dream. I’m just telling him how sick in the head he is for wanting things like it to become true.

    I’m just saying that they obviously tried to manipulate the mother into becoming a tout. They obviously couldn’t help themselves, considering who she was.

  • Blair

    Jimmy merely pointed out that the police had a right to question them on all aspects of the suspect’s criminal career. In fact though they didn’t. As soon as the asked her mother where the suspect was living she took her daughter out of the police station.

    It was only her perception that they were trying to recruit her as an informer. It makes an interesting diversion from Uncle Gerry though.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    I love a good conspiracy theory. Maybe Liam was working for the peelers all along and they told him to rape his daughter so they could recruit her into MI6. I mean you can’t prove it didn’t happen so it must be true. Let’s face it, they have to come up with something to distract attention from grisly, and whataboutkincora didn’t really get much traction. This is what chuckies are reduced to nowadays,

  • Blair

    Jimmy,

    The tactics are fascinating.

    1. Blame the police for not doing anything. (Scuppered because the complaint was withdrawn)

    2. Tell lies. (Scuppered by the photographs etc)

    3. Use whataboutery ie Kincora (Scuppered because people can see right through it.)

    4. Claim that Uncle Gerry’s enemies are using a child abuse to get at him and that this is almost as bad as carrying out the actual abuse. (Scuppered by No 3 above and the fact it is not.)

    It’s hard to see where they go from here.

  • Mr Crowley

    Jimmy_Sands and Blair,
    Take your anti-republican anti-Gerry Adams blinkers and go play with the tarffic.
    Posted by USA on Dec 31, 2009 @ 05:05 PM

    Would you consider it anti-Republican to point out the holes in Gerry Adams’ attempts to explain why he did nothing to protect the children his brother had access to up until 2006? Or to point out the many lies that he has told?

  • Jimmy_Sands

    Of course he would

  • Slartibuckfast

    I’m not trying to deflect anything away from Gerry Adams. I think he’s a cunt. The only ‘person’ on here trying to deflect away from child abuse is the one who clearly stated that if an abused child isn’t willing to become a political spy for the police then she has no business complaining about her abuse. What we can take from that is that she got what she deserved.

    That’s the type of demented self-righteous prick who is actually taking delight in the fact that a 4 year old was raped by her father, because it harms the Provos.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    “I am not blaming the cops entirely”

    That’s very generous of you.

  • Brian MacAodh

    Whatever the police did or did not do does not mean that Gerry acted correctly or was truthful in his recollections of what happened.

  • Blair

    I think that has largely happened inside your head.

  • Slartibuckfast

    Have you been employed as his official spokesman?

  • Blair

    Well he is understandably avoiding the flame war which you appear to be trying to start with him.

  • Slartibuckfast

    I’m not, I’m just challenging his depraved grunting about the child not deserving an investigation of her father’s sexual abuse against her if she didn’t agree to spy on her uncle. Lest it be thought though that I’m using the child’s abuse at the hands of her father for another agenda this is the last I’ll say on that demented little man and leave it to others to use the sexual abuse for their owns ends.

  • tacapall

    The question is, how and why Laim Adams was approved to work with children in republican areas after these allegations that his brother Gerry knew about. The RUC and the social services were notified, although Aine withdrew her complaint for whatever reason – it dosen’t really matter, He was still able to work with children. The RUC, special branch, british intelligence and therefore Unionist leaders and I suppose other members of the republican movement all knew about it but no-one said anything or used this WHY.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    “I think that has largely happened inside your head.”

    Largely?

  • Mr Crowley

    Mr Crowley,
    I feel that for some posters here it is indeed all about bashing Gerry Adams, child molestation is just a vehicle for their pollitical (anti-republican) agenda.
    Posted by USA on Dec 31, 2009 @ 05:48 PM

    I am a Republican and I consider Gerry Adams’ actions in regard to his brother and indeed in many other matters to be anti-Republican. Harbouring a known paedophile (GA believes the allegations and did nothing to prevent LA working with children; indeed LA would no doubt have traded on his name in gaining access) is anti-Republican and anti-human.

  • Lionel Hutz

    All those questions regarding a suspected systematic failure are better left until after a conviction. The Ombudsman wouldn’t even look at it until then, which is appropriate. There are questions but jumping on silly bandwagons on a blog is no way of dealing with it.

    Gerry Adams role though is as a public representative is ripe for scrutiny now. He put his story in the public domain and it is important for the press to use some investigative journalistic endeavour to probe this.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    So now you think we should let the investigation take its course and wait for all the facts to come out and only then blame the police?

  • Lionel Hutz

    Well, I can’t speak for USA but I’m saying as far as the role police goes, that is usually more appropriate.

    As far as Gerry Adams goes, I think you should probe away to your hearts content. I share USAs frustration insofar as it annoys me that many contributors are getting sidetracked and bringing in all manner of stories from the conflict to simply bash Gerry Adams. For my money, these people do themselves a disservice as the sinn féin supporters will simply bury their heads in the sand. Stick to this issue. The public, and in particular the people of west Belfast deserve to be fully informed.

  • Slartibuckfast

    Not at all, he’s very good at learning lessons. Well, for a while anyway. Then he seems to forget them again.

  • tacapall

    The public, and in particular the people of west Belfast deserve to be fully informed.

    There could be an election anytime and Gerry Adams said he believed Aine, why should he or Laim Adams get any respite, were the photo’s in Dundalk or west belfast fake – No, has there been censorship of opinion in the west belfast paper ie A/townnews, yes, then why should people wait possibly years on a court case. As for U.S.A well your far away from this but my kids went to one of those youth clubs when he worked there and Im a republican I want all the truth now.

  • Lionel Hutz

    Tacapall,

    that’s what I’m arguing. The people of west Belfast shouldnt have to wait to have questions about Gerry answered but there are other factors being brought in that are unhelpful. If u are a truly astute critic, you will restrict yourself to this one story

  • Blair

    USA,

    You’d be happy enough for Liam to get a job working in a nursery until such time as he faces a court then?

  • Blair

    Dumb Yank,

    Well if you are not happy with him working with children then why should we give Uncle Gerry a by ball for letting him do so for over twenty years?

  • Blair

    Dumb Yank,

    I think you’ll find that under current rules there is. There wasn’t in 1987, so the Cops blew nothing.

  • Blair

    Dumb Yank,

    By walking into the police station and reporting a senior republican for a crime she was already informing, as far as republicans are concerned.

  • Blair

    Dumb Yank,

    You think that fact would stop the IRA from murdering them and dumping their booby trapped bodies on the border?

  • Grassy Noel

    I’m new to this thread and will sidestep the bickering that seems to be plaguing it.

    Gerry Adams is the leader of the biggest nationalist party in Northern Ireland, and yet he tells the readers of the ATN, who elect him, that he doesn’t read the Sunday papers.

    What sort of elected representative is that?

    There’s lots to be said about this story, but the bottom line, for me, a west Belfast Catholic, is:

    The republican movement only ever care about their own – and by that I mean their operatives, those who killed for them, or robbed for them, or tortured, threatened and abused everyday Joes and Josephines.

    That’s who they cared about, and in this case, it is no different.

    They weren’t out to get justice for the child who was abused, they were out to minimise the damage to the party, the movement, and to the abuser himself.

    That much is clear from what I’ve read.

    I don’t like Suzanne Breen – she is a contrarian with too many axes to grind for my taste – but she is going straight to heaven for this latest article.

    Adams is finished – and despite what Squinter – who really hates him as evidenced by his srticle earlier this year – says, or the censored texts in the ATN – the people in WB that I meet are sickened by this. And are getting angrier and angrier.

    Adams is scum, is one of the phrases I hear most. And thos who utter it are justified in that.