The focus now is on Gerry Adams’s survival

When a journalist in a newspaper labels a leading politician as a liar and produces what ‘s claimed to be a smoking gun so to speak, we know that it’s game on for the highest stakes. Suzanne Breen and the Sunday Tribune are hardly risk averse. They come to the Adams scandal buoyed up with a clear victory over the government over their refusal to disclose the source of the Real IRA claim for the Massareene murders. Recognising the significance of a story which significantly adds to the pressure on Gerry Adams, the BBC cautiously covers the Sunday Tribune’s publication of a photograph of

Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams canvassing with his brother Liam for the party in Dundalk in 1997, at a time when Gerry Adams has said his brother Liam had been expelled from Sinn Fein.

In a comment piece, Northern editor Suzanne Breen claims:

“Today, we expose this as a lie. Far from having Liam “dumped” from the party, Gerry Adams accompanied his suspected paedophile brother on a Sinn Féin canvass through Dundalk town centre just days before the 6 June election. The Sunday Tribune has uncovered photographs and a newspaper report of the event. The brothers are seen laughing on the canvass – more proof that they were not “estranged”.

The BBC report includes a partial rebuttal:

A Sinn Fein spokesman said it saw no conflict with the Sunday Tribune’s claims and Mr Adams’ previous comments on meetings with his brother. “Gerry Adams has made it clear that he did see his brother on occasions in the 1990s and made it clear when he discovered he was a member of the party in the Dundalk area he moved to have him expelled in the late 1990s,” a Sinn Fein spokesman added.

While expulsion in the late 1990s is technically not incompatible with Gerry Adams smilingly canvassing for Liam as late as 1997 according to the Tribune’s evidence, it lacks conviction.

Breen goes on

Gerry Adams’ disturbingly inadequate response to his brother’s suspected abuse makes him politically toxic. He is stripped of all credibility and moral authority. His position as a public figure is untenable. Were he the leader of any other party, he would have resigned by now. Would Brian Cowen, Enda Kenny, Peter Robinson or Mark Durkan survive such damning revelations? Not a chance.

In the Sunday Times, Liam Clarke covers similar territory adding that Adam’s meetings with Aine were –

the same approach of endless but unproductive meetings which republicans often use when people complain against those close to them. The families of many of those killed and secretly buried by the IRA were subjected to the same treatment, as were the family of Robert McCartney, the man stabbed by IRA members in 2005.

Clarke concludes

A politician who has this much explaining to do is a liability to everyone associated with him.

We now wait to see if Gerry Adams produces a new defence or enjoys more lenient treatment from Sinn Fein than former auxiliary bishops in the Dublin archdiocese are at last receiving at the hands of the Irish Church. Is there a Sinn Fein equivalent of Diarmuid Martin? The constrast with the Church’s actions however belated, is now blatant and must be causing mental turmoil for those who are able to reconcile strong support for Sinn Fein with devotion to the Church. This is now a crisis which even this most enclosed of political movements cannot leave to piecemeal statements from a spokesman. Despite the tsuami of schadenfreude rising up from its enemies, Sinn Fein cannot dismiss this as a purely politically motivated attack.

  • This is now a crisis which even this most enclosed of political movements cannot leave to piecemeal statements from a spokesman.

    It will only become a crisis for that movement if its members, those who support it financially in the States or those who vote for it in NI care about what’s happened…and there is no evidence whatsoever of that so far.

  • The Raven

    I have to agree with oneill. The papers are loving it. The blogosphere is positively salivating. But I don’t hear people on the ground talking about it. Any casual conversation I have had with friends or colleagues who work or live in republican areas has only yielded the merest shrug of shoulders.

    The golden mask has certainly slipped – but is the damage irreparable?

  • iluvni

    Why the silence from the DUP, UUP and sdlp on this?

  • The Raven

    “Why the silence from the DUP, UUP and sdlp on this?”

    It’s Christmas…?

    😉

  • Drumlins Rock

    O’Neill, getting down to pure politics, ie. the coming election, I think it will have some impact on Sinn Fein, even simply from the point it will cause a distraction for Gerry and the party management, plus we are used to thinking of this hardcore voting machine that has dominated most nationalist areas in recent years, but many of the new voters are more fickle and easier put off, you could soon see P&J being used to take the heat of Gerry rather than vice versa.

  • Scaramoosh

    I just took a taxi ride with a driver of loyalist persuasion; he voiced the belief that people on the ground were sick of this story; sick of hearing about Liam Adams, and sick of the attempts to smear Adams.

    Perhaps, once again, the newspapers have misjudged the mood; perhaps the ordinary man in the street is not interested in a story that has very clearly been spun by persons laden down with baggage.

  • Alias

    “It will only become a crisis for that movement if its members, those who support it financially in the States or those who vote for it in NI care about what’s happened…and there is no evidence whatsoever of that so far”

    Wrong. It will only become a crisis if the state-controlled media are instructed to make it into a crisis rather than instructed to protect a security asset. So far, it is only Suzanne Breen and Liam Clarke – two of the small number of journalists who are not state puppets – who have drawn out the inconsistencies in his story and asked some salient questions about the role of Mr Adams. The rest of the media have stayed silent on those salient questions, adding no investigative details to the story, and merely paying token lip service to it as it is developed by a few non-puppets so as to give the false impression that the state-controlled media pulls its own strings.

  • Fair Deal

    iluvni

    “3.Why the silence from the DUP, UUP and sdlp on this?”

    1. When someone is proving very good at digging a hole for themselves it is best not to distract them.
    2. Such attacks would suit SF. They’d argue to the SF grassroots to circle the wagons in the face of attacks from opponents.

    Scaramoosh

    Oh please, the taxi-driver defence?

  • tacapall

    There is lots of talk in republican circles, they just keep it among themselves, its dig in and hold the fort untill decisions can be made rationally rather than kneejerk. Gerry Adams is an icon for the republican community whats said or alledged or written by people outside of that community will not be relied on when it comes to deciding wheither Adams actions justifyable.

  • lorraine

    the psf doublespeak is amazing. gerry has been caught telling lies again and the silence from psf, in light of their comments on the dublin archdioses, are deafening. is there NOBODY of sound moral character to stand up and say this is WRONG ?

    a young girl was raped after having to listen to her attacker beat her mother. this is wrong and should not be lost sight of

  • Comrade Stalin

    The Raven:

    Actually I do hear people on the ground talking about it, all the time. And that’s not just in political circles. This is a matter that has very profound implications in political terms, when it comes to upheaval within SF and how SF interacts with other political parties.

    iluvni:

    Why the silence from the DUP, UUP and sdlp on this?

    Because I think there is acceptance that there are certain matters which you don’t want to be seen to be making political hay from. Any kind of comment from any political party on these matters would be seen in this light. You’ll note that even Jim Allister, normally first off the starting line when there is any hint of SF wrongdoing, has not put out a press release on it. I guess it shows that there is at least some degree of civilization within our political community.

    alias:

    Wrong. It will only become a crisis if the state-controlled media are instructed to make it into a crisis rather than instructed to protect a security asset.

    Ah, now I understand.

  • Blair

    The focus was on Gerry Adams’s survival from the very minute that he took the phone call from Chris Moore two months ago.

  • Drumlins Rock

    O’Neill, getting down to pure politics, ie. the coming election, I think it will have some impact on Sinn Fein, even simply from the point it will cause a distraction for Gerry and the party management, plus we are used to thinking of this hardcore voting machine that has dominated most nationalist areas in recent years, but many of the new voters are more fickle and easier put off, you could soon see P&J being used to take the heat of Gerry rather than vice versa.

  • ranger1640

    The question now that needs to be asked, what justice can an ordinary nationalist/republican get if the victim in this case is being obstructed by Sinn Fein/IRA? Remember the recent incidents involving Sinn Fein/IRA, the Robert McCartney and Paul Quinn cover up and denial, and the slow release of information to the families of the disappeared and the character assassination of the disappeared, the Robert McCartney sisters and the family of Paul Quinn!!!

    Gerry Adams the man who all through his life has denied being in the IRA, and has denied his full roll in several infamous incidents during the so called troubles.

    So Adams, form in this issues is hardly unfamiliar to him.

    Here I believe is the issue that goes to the heart of the matter an issue that nationalists/republicans are in complete denial about.

    This issue of the blatant lies that Adams is coming out with are of concern for the Unionist side of the fence, but the nationalist/republican side need to re-examine what type of people and party they want to represent them.

    As a Unionist we have seen Adams blatantly tell lies and half truths over many years. He is a master in the tactics of deflection, spin and victim-hood, all the tactics he has used in this case.

    The ordinary nationalist/republican needs to get the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, collective monkey off their backs, and see Adams and Sinn Fein/IRA for what they really are.

    Until ordinary nationalists/republicans, realize that Adams and Sinn Fein/IRA have a vested interest in keeping their communities and electorate subjugated then the cycle of some old, same old in nationalist/republican areas will continue forever.

    I’m sure there are more of these cases, and at some stage they will be forced out, to affect the nationalist/republican communities. Remember Robert McCartney and Paul Quinn if Sinn Fein/IRA can clean up and cover up murders, there is nothing they won’t stoop too, to cover up for the party’s apparatchiks or other IRA players in a sexual abuse allegation against ordinary people!!!

    To quote Thomas Jefferson: “When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Change the government, to Sinn Fein and this seems to sum up everything in nationalist/republican communities!!!

  • regimental 1912

    Raven,the reason people in republican areas may shrug their shoulders might reflect their desire not to join the disappeared or it may just be commonamong republican families to abuse their children as they tend to take the lead from their clergy.

  • Drumlins Rock

    oops, sorry for repeat post 13, my mouse slipped on the ice.

  • Alias

    “Ah, now I understand.” – Comrade Stalin

    I don’t think you do even if the only journalist to do any investigative legwork is Suzanne Breen. Why do you think that might be? Is it because the rest are just lazy shites or it is because any sane and sensible media would grasp that it simply doesn’t matter if a pathological liar is elected to public office and therefore ’tis mere foolishness to even bother the public about it? Perhaps in your little state-controlled world…

    Ranger1640, good post. What is difficult in this for the Shinner supporters is that they could excuse immoral acts when those acts gave their community some advantage over the other community but there is no political purpose to protecting a paedophile so that makes them think that maybe a psychopath is at work here rather than a militant activist and that as a psychopath cannot be reformed then it might follow that a psychopath does not belong in a position of public authority.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Alias,

    I don’t think you do even if the only journalist to do any investigative legwork is Suzanne Breen. Why do you think that might be?

    No, I think it’s because our journalists here are mostly crap. Look at the BBC website for example, it largely consists of reporting on stories broken by others. The most read article on the Belly Telly website yesterday was something about a adult-themed Santa grotto.

    Is it because the rest are just lazy shites or it is because any sane and sensible media would grasp that it simply doesn’t matter if a pathological liar is elected to public office and therefore ‘tis mere foolishness to even bother the public about it? Perhaps in your little state-controlled world…

    Why is it necessary to believe that state control is responsible for lazy reporting standards in the media ? It’s not like the state is actively stopping discussion. Do you see the State trying to shut down this discussion we’re having here, right now ? Are the black helicopters circling above your roof ? If not, then how does your state “protecting the asset” thing stand up ?

    Maybe you’re right though, maybe there is something strange about the fact that the media aren’t reporting on the dazzling, ground breaking, world-first shocker that there are pathological liars in public office.

    You sound an awful lot like Trowbridge H Ford.

  • Alias

    Yawn. And media peace processing is just a conspiracy theory…

    It isn’t because your journalists “are mostly crap” since they are trained to the same standards as elsewhere. It is because their editors are pushing a state agenda. That is the same level of control that existed prior to the current process.

    If in doubt, I suggest you aquaint yourself with “Ireland, the Propaganda War” by Liz Curtis or Martin Dillon’s “The Dirty War” or Tim Pat Coogan’s “The Troubles.”

  • Blair

    Alias,

    It can’t be a coincidence that Suzanne has been chosen by the dissidents as their conduit with the real world.

  • Comrade Stalin

    It isn’t because your journalists “are mostly crap” since they are trained to the same standards as elsewhere.

    So anyone who has been “trained” as a journalist is equally competent. So Kate Adie is equivalent to Martina Purdy because they both have a journalism degree. All of a sudden, everything becomes clear.

    So what you are saying is that there is no such thing as a bad or incompetent journalist, there’s only such a thing as a trained journalist. Am I right ?

    If in doubt, I suggest you aquaint yourself with “Ireland, the Propaganda War” by Liz Curtis or Martin Dillon’s “The Dirty War” or Tim Pat Coogan’s “The Troubles.”

    No, I won’t. You can either explain yourself here, or run away.

    What exactly do you think the state agenda is at the moment WRT Gerry Adams ? Is it your suggestion that they are protecting him ? If so, why the UTV Insight programme ?

  • Paul

    it beggers belief that Gerry Adams is today still in his position as SF leader.unbeleivable its totally clear gerry adams has told blantant untruths any other party political leader would of gone by now.But then again this is sinn fein we are talking about they gerry adams and sinn fein are behaving quite disgracfully and its not surprising the contempt that people are quite rigtly showing them.

  • padraig

    For the word , ‘The contempt people are showing’

    Please replace the word ‘people’ with;

    a} Paul himself.

    b] His mummy

    c} His daddy.

    d} The guys he hangs about with in the bar down the road.

    e]Fellow Unionists generally.

    Yawn reminds me of the good old days; ‘all right thinking people’, the vast majority in Norn Ireland’ ect,ect, ect.

    If its a duck it quacks, what else is new?

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    Hi Oneill, As an American…I don’t like how the sinn fein leadership has remained silent concerning this issue. I am now questioning whether the leadership is more concerned with self preservation rather than attaining the goal of an United Ireland.
    As a political scientist…I will ask you this question, “how effective will gerry adams now be in negotiations when those sitting across the table see him as a liar.” This is where there is a huge political risk for sinn fein to keep gerry adams on board.

  • ranger1640

    There seems to a bit of a debate on the media here.

    Has anyone watched or listened to the local BBC NI TV news or radio Ulster news or alleged phone in shows.

    They are the most banal media in the country.

    The main BBC NI news is more like a game show or light entertainment show than a hard hitting investigating news programme. And the presenters across the BBC TV and radio media are so middle class and so far up their own arse’s they would not recognize a breaking news story if it came up and hit them a kick in their collective arse’s.

  • This is not really a matter for the nationalist electorate of the North, as they will continue to vote for SF in large numbers, as there is no viable political alternative for them to turn to. No, the real question is for the SF membership. For the must decide whether they still consider Gerry Adams to be a Party asset, or has he, and his not inconsiderable baggage, both personal and political, become the main road block stopping the party’s forward movement.

    Such a question is not unique to SF, all political parties face it when a leader stays to long. However, due to the longevity of Mr Adams leadership role, he has created a leadership cadre which depends utterly on him for its daily bread. Thus like all bureaucrats when they fear for their jobs, they place obstacles in the path of all who even consider whether it is time for their boss to depart.

    Yet the longer Mr Adams stays, the more SF becomes an organization, the main purpose of which is to service the needs of a single man, whether political or personal. Making it more likely when he ‘eventually’ chooses to retire, (Or dies) the shell of what remains of a party will come crashing to the ground.

    There are only two ways in which this deplorable situation can be brought to an end, a palace coup of the type which saw the back of Thatcher and Blair, or a rising from within the ranks of the membership. For the latter to occur there would need to be a Tsunami within Sinn Fein, it would be the best option by far as the sheer force of it it would also sweep away the sclerotic core of the Adamsite northern SF leadership.

    I do not wish to reduce my comment to a slag Adams or anti SF rant, but as an outsider looking in I do wonder what purpose SF serves these days. In the north SF is part of the process of stagnation which allows the Unionists to keep a form of the status quo in place which has failed the six counties working classes so badly since its inception.

    In the South SF is just about treading water, and in truth at the last General election if the electorate had been more generous towards SF with their votes, the party would today be in the same pitiful position as the greens are today. As SF’s TD’s would undoubtedly have followed Mr Adams advice and entered a coalition as a junior partner of FF.

    It would do the SF membership no harm over the next few weeks to ponder the text of telegram Tito sent To Stalin during WW2, ‘If you cannot or will not help us, for fucks sake stop hindering us.’

  • KateMcC

    I think the SDLP has tentatively broken its silence with Alasdair McDonnell declaring that Gerry Adams should ‘consider his position’, political speak for ‘go'(haven’t read piece myself yet). There is the danger that the nationalist wagons will circle around Gerry and SF if too many political voices are heard on this but I believe there is a moral obligation on the political class to speak out against what seems to be the protection of an alleged paedophile. Paedophilia transcends politics, religion etc. it is not a Green/Orange issue and the leaders of the other parties could be asking questions not only of Gerry Adams but the PSNI, community centres etc. Also, as we all know there is a vast array of quangos out there, where is the Children’s Commissioner, Human Rights Commissioner, Victim’s Commissioner and so on. Running to look at their remits to check whether or not they are legislatively permitted to comment!

  • J Kelly

    I would suggest that maybe many of you who have no contact with or understanding of what the republican community are thinking at this time should have a look through the comments on Gerry Adams latest blog.

    http://leargas.blogspot.com/

  • Jimmy_Sands

    J Kelly,

    Thanks for that link. It doesn’t surprise me, but for other it is perhaps a salutary reminder that SF’s support and the Angrytown News readership is made up of the sort of person who thinks Grisly is the real victim here.

  • regimental 1912

    J Kelly,what world does a thicko like you live in,this site is monitored and only complimentary statements are allowed through,do you think he should go,or are you so brainwashed a republican,now there is a contradictory statement,washed and republican, that you believe him to be an upstanding family man and mirrors all that his party stand for.Do you also think that his brother did no wrong.

  • Framer

    Putting it in some sort of context to explain the relative silence:

    Other daughters were shot to death or blown apart because they got in the way of Republicanism’s pointless 25-year war.

  • Alias

    J Kelly, some of those commenters on that Leargas blog are so far up Gerry’s arse that I’m going to forward the link to the head of the Human Genome Project and tell him get those Shinner sycophants into a laboratory posthaste to have them tested for a suppository gene. I think there may even be a Nobel Prize in it.

  • ranger1640

    Gerry blog, is being renamed Gerry the perpetual victim!!! How Saintly!!!

    Word has now come through that the pope is dropping the canonization of the previous pope John Paul II, and is going to make Gerry a saint.

    The miracle that Gerry is said to have done, is to make the real victim appear irrelevant and convert himself and his brother into the real victims!!!

    How fucking saintly and so much to form for Gerry “I was never in the IRA” Adams.

    Gerry a caca!!!

  • Only Asking

    Yet the longer Mr Adams stays, the more SF becomes an organization, the main purpose of which is to service the needs of a single man, whether political or personal. Making it more likely when he ‘eventually’ chooses to retire, (Or dies) the shell of what remains of a party will come crashing to the ground.

    The dupers didn’t go crashing to the ground when big Iain got the shove, why should it happen to the shinners?

    There are only two ways in which this deplorable situation can be brought to an end, a palace coup of the type which saw the back of Thatcher and Blair, or a rising from within the ranks of the membership. For the latter to occur there would need to be a Tsunami within Sinn Fein, it would be the best option by far as the sheer force of it it would also sweep away the sclerotic core of the Adamsite northern SF leadership.

    Theres not much difference between these two things mick, one is much the same as the other. This story is zilch on the ground. I read some poster being ticked off for using the ‘taxi driver defence’. I don’t think they were too far off, any thaxi’s I got over the holidays, (not too many double as its double the money) aren’t even talking about it, I haven’t heard it mentioned anywhere. Is that a defence, if it is I don’t know what I’m defending. If this results in Adams’ downfall I’ll eat somenes hat, for on the radar of street talk, it isn’t even in there AFAIK. It’s simply not an issue imho.

  • Drumlins Rock

    I thought it was Eve with the apple that lead to adams downfall?

  • Blair

    I have to say I don’t think that this will overly affect Uncle Gerry’s position either. If the community that votes for him is perfectly comfortable with all the other shit he has been responsible for down the years then why should they be bothered by this?

    What happens to him will not be a judgement on him. It will be a judgement on the nationalist community that supports him. Can you imagine any other politician (non Sinner) surviving this far after being exposed like this?

  • Panic, these ones like it up em.

    Is it too late for Gerry and the Bishops to claim

    the new years number 1

    Gerry could retire to spend less time with his family.

    Could the spooks have used this knowledge as leverage over Gerry Adams down the years ? ? ?

    What will the implications be if enough republicans decide that the spooks did use this knowledge as leverage.

    The stakes may be higher here than many have realised !

  • Comrade Stalin

    Only Asking:

    The dupers didn’t go crashing to the ground when big Iain got the shove, why should it happen to the shinners?

    It’s not really the same thing. The DUP was basically being run by Robinson for the ten year period before Big Ian stood down, with the leader being used to lend credibility to what would have been more radical ideas (eg the StAA).

    There really is no equivalence with SF in that respect. Furthermore, it’s not so obvious who in SF, outside of Marty, would be best placed to take over. I don’t even know whether or not Marty would want the job.

  • John O’Connell

    socaire

    It’s worth noting that the hunger strike hyenas have moved on to a new subject.

    So have the hunger strike deny-ers, I’m sure you’ll agree.

    This ultimately has nothing to do with his politics, except in the sense that it has. It’s about his masculinity. Is he the same Gerry Adams who strategically lead the Republican Movement?

    No, he’s soiled, damaged goods because his masculinity, which he traded on, has gone.

    Only Asking

    And why would people be talking about it over Christmas. It’s like talking about someone having cancer, best left to another time. But Gerry’s idea to keep it for Christmas time is backfiring on him because it’s not just another bit of news. This is the news that the boss of bosses in Sinn Fein grew up in an abusive home. His invulnerability is gone. He’s soiled goods. His masculinity has gone.

  • Scaramoosh

    “This is the news that the boss of bosses in Sinn Fein grew up in an abusive home. His invulnerability is gone. He’s soiled goods. His masculinity has gone.”

    The words of a troubled mind, I fear.

  • Only Asking

    It’s not really the same thing.

    I guess like families political parties have their own unique dynamic, but the question of who takes over is not central to this. It’s more of a lack of who would replace adams in the west belfast constituency, there is simply a lack of faces there that could fill his shoes. Theres more hope of someone replacing him at the helm. Either way I couldn’t see SF come crashing to the ground if Adams left or was dethroned. They’d rally and move on, and not simply due to the lack of a viable alternative either, theres much talent in SF, I wouldn’t underestimate them.

  • iluvni

    Linda Coleman from the US is an interesting commentator on the Gerry Adams blog.
    I wonder if this is the same Linda Coleman who is on the Wake County ‘Methodist Home for Children Board’. It would be interesting to find out what they would make of her sympathy and empathy for the plight of poor Gerry Adams at this time.

  • Blair

    socaire,

    Why does a man who covered up twenty two years of child abuse, and stood by while the alleged paedophile worked closely with children deserve to have any slack cut?

    What exactly does the guy have to do before it becomes universally accepted that he is an extremely bad man?

  • georgieleigh

    KathyC writes,

    “As an American…I don’t like how the sinn fein leadership has remained silent concerning this issue”

    As a “political scientist” Kathy you will be aware that Sinn Féin does not contest elections in America.

    So it is not answerable to you and your American values.

  • Blair

    socaire,

    Help me out then. Are you saying that he didn’t cover up for child abuse and go canvassing with a man he claims he believed to be a child rapist?

    Oh and did he not then subsequently lie about his dealings with said individual?

  • Blair

    socaire,

    Churchill is dead now. Let’s concentrate on the leader of northern nationalism. You say I need to think for myself. I’ve tried that and I’m thinking that he has been exposed as a liar who covered up for child abuse, and allowed the alleged abuser to continue working with children.

    He then belatedly got in touch with a friendly journalist, when it became clear that the story was going to break, and gave him a version of events which has subsequently been proven to be somewhat wide of the mark.

    How am I doing so far?

  • joeCanuck

    How am I doing so far?

    Fairly “wide of the mark” I would say.

    But I do think that Adams does need to give an explanation, since he has spoken of the matter, between his statement and this contradictory “evidence”.

  • Blair

    Joe,

    Can you tell me where I am wide of the mark?

  • Blair

    Socaire,

    Uncle Gerry’s sins are alive and well and the victims are living amongst us.

    I’m not sure I get your point. He had two months to prepare his story, so why do you think he got it so badly wrong?

  • Blair

    Socaire,

    You don’t think he got it badly wrong? You think it is perfectly natural that a politician should go canvassing with someone that he subsequently claimed to have known was a child rapist?

    You think he was not aware that he had been working with children for twenty odd years? I must say you have a lot of blind faith in Uncle Gerry.

  • Blair

    Socaire,

    You will fight who? The victims of abuse?

  • Paul

    #

    For the word , ‘The contempt people are showing’

    Please replace the word ‘people’ with;

    a} Paul himself.

    b] His mummy

    c} His daddy.

    d} The guys he hangs about with in the bar down the road.

    e]Fellow Unionists generally.

    Yawn reminds me of the good old days; ‘all right thinking people’, the vast majority in Norn Ireland’ ect,ect, ect.

    If its a duck it quacks, what else is new?
    Posted by padraig on Dec 28, 2009 @ 04:09

    Yet more LMAO Sinners/trolls/spinners clap trap the only yawning is the likes of your boring and pathatic excuss for trying to get Gerry Adams of the hook. who simply dosnt have any moral authority to carry on in his position.FACT his accounts simply didnt and dont add up any other party leader in Ireland both north and south would of resign apart from your mentor Adams who has told blantant untruths its quite laughable seeing some of the sinners/trolls/spinners spinning into overdrive well to coin a phrase this scandal aint going to go away you know. Gerry Adams position is untenable fact if he remains he and sinn fein clearly have brought politics into desrepute.

  • joeCanuck

    Blair,
    I haven’t seen any evidence that he “covered up” abuse or that he “allowed” the abuser to continue to work…
    I am only going by second hand reports, mainly on Slugger, but it appears that he did the opposite of what you claim.

  • joeCanuck

    clearly have brought politics into desrepute. (sic).

    Paul troll,
    Please do tell us what “repute” N.I. politics have had this past 80 or more years, more especially this past 3 years or so.

  • Paul

    #

    clearly have brought politics into desrepute. (sic).

    Paul troll,
    Please do tell us what “repute” N.I. politics have had this past 80 or more years, more especially this past 3 years or so.
    Posted by joeCanuck on Dec 28, 2009 @ 10:53 PM

    who cares what you think you living in canada posting on your PC with the utter nonsense and drivel as usual you have done nothing but defend adams with your appalling spinning/trolling then try to deflect attention.Away from this appalling scandal by attacking others as trolls how pathatic is that.members of the public can see you that is who simply dosnt know what they are talking about.No change there then

  • Paul

    #

    Damn good point, Joseph!
    Posted by socaire on Dec 28, 2009 @ 11:05 PM

    LMAO another Sinner/troll/spinner trying to deflect attention away from this appalling scandal by attacking others.You are making yourself look even more foolish everytime you post.GEt real Gerry Adams position is untenable

  • joeCanuck

    hehehehehe
    Touched a sore point there, did I, troll?

  • Dixie Elliott

    “Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” — Albert Einstein

  • Blair

    Joe,

    Oh did he go public about the abuse? The photographs of him grinning beside the alleged abuser are a bit strange don’t you think? Do you honestly believe that he didn’t know what his brother was doing for a living? How come he made so many complementary comments about him in his book etc?

    What evidence do you have to support your claim that he did the opposite to what I claim?

  • Paul

    #

    Ever try posting in Irish,Paul?
    Posted by socaire on Dec 28, 2009 @ 10:33 PM

    Ever tried posting something constructive rather than defending somebody like Gerry Adams who has no moral authority left to carry on in his position.You yourself should take a long hard look at what you post quite shameful the way you troll and spin to try to get adams off the hook well i am afraid gerry adams days are clearly numbered.as more on this scandal come out

  • Paul

    #

    hehehehehe
    Touched a sore point there, did I, troll?
    Posted by joeCanuck on Dec 28, 2009 @ 11:22 PM

    he he he no you just make me laugh everytime you post your drivel Mr Troll from canada i touch a nerve everytime i expose the in excuseable spinning/trolling the likes off you trolls/spinners try to get your Gerry off the hook.LMAO its a laugh a minute.

  • joeCanuck

    Well. they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Paul. Thank you.
    Now I really must go and look out the window, even though it is dark.

  • Paul

    #

    Well. they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Paul. Thank you.
    Now I really must go and look out the window, even though it is dark.
    Posted by joeCanuck on Dec 28, 2009 @ 11:31 PM

    lMAO you have being looking in the dark with your postings for weeks no change there then.A candianian Gerry Adams apoligist how very very sad.You simply dont know what you are talking about Mr Troll from canada try reading the sunday tribune article you might learn something.No chance of that though hey TROLL

  • Danny O’Connor

    GA caught telling porkies,why is anyone surprised?Some people wouldn’t know the truth if it bit them on the arse.The whole machine started on a lie that allowed people to die so that they could do what they said – no return to Stormont- armalite in one hand ,ballot box in the other.

    It is easy to tell when GA is lying – his lips move.

    The question is ,should he be charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice?

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    Hi georgieleigh,

    You are correct, sinn fein does not run in elections where I live…in the US…however sinn fein does run here several times a year for money…so we do have something to say about what they are doing. People who give money to political parties…don’t like negative press or damaged goods…and that is what gerry adams is. Gerry Adams will negatively effect fund raising here in the States, Canada and Australia…and he will hurt sinn fein’s reputation throughout the world.

  • Danny O’Connor

    Joe if you enjoy the dark ,his book will be out soon

  • Alias

    “I don’t think you do even if the only journalist to do any investigative legwork is Suzanne Breen. Why do you think that might be?” – Alias

    “No, I think it’s because our journalists here are mostly crap.” – Comrade Stalin

    Oh, I see. Thank you for that explanation for why a minister of the British state branded Ms Breen a “dissident journalist” and why the police force within that state followed up that state’s attack on journalists within its jurisdiction who refused to proffer state propaganda as a substitute for diligent reporting and holding the state to account with an attempt to prosecute that journalist for refusing to hand offer her investigative notes to the state – an act that wherein the state in its zealous imperative to censor the unwelcome and non-conforming investigative reporting were rebuffed by the courts which upheld the freedom of the press that the state actively tried to undermine.

    In your odd little world, the British state did not brand MS Breen as a “dissident journalist” because it wished to control her reporting, bringing her into line with the ‘non-dissenting’ journalists who proffered the state’s agenda but merely attacked the press in that manner because it objected to “crap” reporting.

    Suzanne Breen is the honourable exception that proves the rule. She was branded as a “dissident journalist” (dissenting from the peace processing function of NI’s overwhelmingly servile media) for failing to comply with state-sponsored reporting, and subsequently targeted by the British police after being targeted by a British minister within the British state.

  • joeCanuck

    You’re a superb ball player, Paul.
    Perhaps you might consider becoming a professional soccer player when you leave school.

  • Alias

    Since the British minister used “dissident” as an adjective, let’s look at how dictionary.com defines it: “disagreeing or dissenting, as in opinion or attitude: a ban on dissident magazines.” The term “dissident” first came into use as a noun to describe those who challenged the totalitarian regime in the Soviet Union.

    In this context, a ‘dissident journalist’ is any reporter who does not comply with state-sponsored media management but who actively challenges the doctrines and policies of the state.

    The term was used in a context that was purgative, clearly indicating that the state did not approve of media that did not propagate the official line. It was also quantitative, indicating that there were only a small number of such journalists who were not servile to the state. And it was an exhortation to authorities within the state – operationally (or rather nominally) independent of the Executive – to harass this small number of journalists who refused to be state-controlled.

    The result of this exhortation was that a non-conforming journalist was exposed to the risk of being murdered by the state’s attempt to force her to hand over her investigative notes about RIRA to the state. It was well-known that any journalist who did this would be accused of collaboration by RIRA and duly shot. This is the trick that the state attempted to use in order to deter other investigative reporters from further enquiry. Clearly, no reporter would dare investigate if that meant that they must share their notes with the state and thereby risk a bullet, and no reporter would dare step out of line elsewhere if they observed a state that was ruthlessly determined to keep them in line.

    Since there are – according to the British minister – only a small number of “dissident” journalists, it follows that the majority are non-dissenting. And since the state strongly disapproves of journalists who are not willing to be state-controlled, the rest are obviously willing to be servile to the state.

    It is indeed the case that only a small number of NI’s media are not state-controlled, and this has been the case prior to the current process. It is telling that when the British minister made this attack on press freedom, everybody knew who he was talking about.

  • Only Asking

    Gerard Hodgkins is in the Irish News demanding Adams quit the Sands trust.

  • Only Asking

    SF leader not the only one to speak for republican martyrs.

  • percy

    here’s one for the back-biters
    The usual suspects misjudge the public mood
    http://www.belfastmedia.com/columnists_article.php?ID=902

  • Mr Crowley

    Anyone seen Adams’ blog today? http://leargas.blogspot.com/2009/12/bliain-ur-faoi-mhaise-daoibhbliain-ur.html

    A man embroiled in a paedophilia scandal praises the Christian brothers while petulantly carping about the media for having the gall to do their job and catch him in his lies. It was posted last night and there are still no comments; perhaps it was too much for even the sickest of sycophants. Although some of the spinners on this thread would most likely disagree.

  • What is it with *cod* philosophers, the media and seagulls?

    Gerry Kerouac in Leargas:

    Here’s a happy New Year to you.’ He told me.

    ‘And you too. And the seagulls.’

    ‘And the media’ he retorted.

    Eric Cantona, on the media reaction after having kung fu-ed a Palace fan:

    “When the seagulls follow the trawler, it’s because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.

  • Mr Crowley

    Percy, what did you think of the Squinter piece that you link to? He counters verifiable evidence with rhetoric and absolutely evades the central issue; why did the British not publicly use this against Adams and PSF when they have known about it for 20+ years and to what extent was it used behind the scenes? He appears inherently compromised and it becomes easier to understand how he managed to be surrounded by British agents of his own appointment.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Alias,

    Suzanne Breen was the victim of embarassed people within the PSNI. Eventually the “British state”, via the British-operated courts system, exonerated her. Doesn’t that kind of fuck up your whole elaborate conspiracy ? It’s not as if the British have not intervened to swing court proceedings in the past.

    And of course I agree that she is a good journalist. One of the few.

    She was branded as a “dissident journalist”

    While I don’t agree with McGuinness’s attitude expressed in this comment, it is somewhat more straightforward to explain it by way of frustration with journalists glorifying, as he saw it, individuals who are trying to kill him. McGuinness isn’t exactly an individual with a history of tolerating dissent and criticism. So I still don’t see why a British conspiracy is necessary here.

    I need to go, my MI6 black helicopter is waiting outside to take me back to GCHQ.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Gerry Kerouac in Leargas:
    ‘I know that’ he said as we made our way away from the waters edge and up
    towards Saint Galls.

    Fuck me, but Gearoid’s fluffy man-of-the-world prosaic schtick makes me bring up about twenty buckets of sick every time.

  • Alias

    “I need to go, my MI6 black helicopter is waiting outside to take me back to GCHQ.”

    I had you down as an eco-friendly moped man. 😉

  • Comrade Stalin,

    The Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) are responsible for collecting secret foreign intelligence, mainly operate outside the United Kingdom and are therefore part of the Foreign & Commonwealth Office brief.

    The Security Service (MI5) is responsible for protecting the United Kingdom against threats to national security, mainly operate within the United Kingdom and are therefore part of the Home Office brief.

    GCHQ is a separate intelligence agency with two important missions, Signals Intelligence (known as SIGINT) and Information Assurance (IA).

    None of these agencies operate helicopters, that is a role of the Armed Forces and would actually come under the scope of the Joint Helicopter Command

  • Mr Crowley

    The Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) are responsible for collecting secret foreign intelligence, mainly operate outside the United Kingdom and are therefore part of the Foreign & Commonwealth Office brief.
    Posted by Intelligence Insider on Dec 29, 2009 @ 05:05 PM

    Gerry Adams has had long standing relationships with Micheal Oatley and Frank Steele of SIS; indeed Oatley is a staunch supporter of Adams. Do you think that they may have mentioned Liam Adams during their discussions over several decades?
    http://cryptome.org/uk-intel.doc

  • I think saying “Oatley is a staunch supporter of Adams” is exaggerating, to say the least.
    Although, in the many meetings between Adams, Mcguinness, Oatley and Steele it seems to me that Oatley handled Mcguinness, and Steele handled Adams. Handled, perhaps, being the operative word.

  • Mr Crowley

    You have failed to address the question in regard to Liam Adams.

  • Blair

    MI6 were always a little bit prone to propping up the bad guys.

  • If you are asking if I think Messrs. Oatley and Steele discussed Liam Adams when talking to Gerry, then the answer is no. I very much doubt that Liam ever figured, or was discussed in any way, in any of their many discussions.

  • Mr Crowley

    If you are asking if I think Messrs. Oatley and Steele discussed Liam Adams when talking to Gerry, then the answer is no. I very much doubt that Liam ever figured, or was discussed in any way, in any of their many discussions.
    Posted by Intelligence Insider on Dec 30, 2009 @ 01:23 AM

    Why would they choose to ignore such a potentially useful source of potential manipulation and leverage?

  • Blair

    Mr Crowley,

    Because they liked to play the friend.

  • Comrade Stalin

    None of these agencies operate helicopters, that is a role of the Armed Forces and would actually come under the scope of the Joint Helicopter Command

    This is a new multi-agency operation dedicated to the preservation of Gerry Adams. It’s so secret that only I, “Alias”, the former editors of “Living Marxism”, and the entire Internet know about it.

  • Alias

    “Suzanne Breen was the victim of embarassed people within the PSNI. Eventually the “British state”, via the British-operated courts system, exonerated her. Doesn’t that kind of fuck up your whole elaborate conspiracy ? It’s not as if the British have not intervened to swing court proceedings in the past.” – Comrade Stalin

    Not at all, since I remarked upon the judicial independence of the courts in protecting the freedom of the press in post 7 of page 3:

    “…the state in its zealous imperative to censor the unwelcome and non-conforming investigative reporting were rebuffed by the courts which upheld the freedom of the press that the state actively tried to undermine.”

    The political aspect of the State (government) and the security apparatus of the state are separate from the judiciary so it’s a tad retarded of you to conflate them, claiming that because the judiciary acts honourably and other parts of the state do not then it must follow – according to your curious logic – that all areas of the state are exonerated by the actions of one area.

    However, apart from that curious logic, you’d be more convincing it you didn’t engage in conspiracy theories that suggest that the police force conspired against Ms Breen because of a personal grudge and to suggest that the other areas of the state have conspired with the judiciary to pervert the course of justice.

    Accusing another poster of engaging in a conspiracy theory (when the proof of state control of the media is provided) in order to over mine the claim that the state does seek to control the media, while simultaneously engaging in two outlandish and wholly unsubstantiated conspiracy theories of your own just makes you look a bit schizophrenic, frankly.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Not at all, since I remarked upon the judicial independence of the courts in protecting the freedom of the press in post 7 of page 3:

    That doesn’t change the fact that your argument is inconsistent.

    The political aspect of the State (government) and the security apparatus of the state are separate from the judiciary

    It’s interesting that you believe this is so, despite the long history suggesting the opposite (eg Widgery). Is it reasonable to assume you think that the single-minded agenda of the British state would see the judiciary as an obstacle ? If so why bring the case against Breen in the first place ?

    so it’s a tad retarded of you to conflate them, claiming that because the judiciary acts honourably and other parts of the state do not

    No I didn’t. Aren’t you the one arguing that you believe the judiciary came to the rescue of Suzanne Breen against the clutches of the State ? Are you so confused that you think your opinions are actually mine ?

    The only comment I made on this subject was :

    “It’s not as if the British have not intervened to swing court proceedings in the past.”

    You can read it right up there. Post 1, page 4. It should be reasonably obvious that I don’t view the state and the judiciary as being wholly independent.

    Just to remind you of what my actual opinions are here. I think that local journalism is generally, with a few notable exceptions, of a poor standard. You do not, you think that all journalists are made equal as they receive the same training (I have to admit, I had to pick myself up off the floor with that relevation). You still haven’t addressed my question about this bizarre perspective, which is probably because it doesn’t suit your worldview that everything that happens in NI politics only takes place because it has been directed by the British state.

    then it must follow – according to your curious logic – that all areas of the state are exonerated by the actions of one area.

    Are there any other opinions you’d like to fabricate on my behalf ?

  • Alias

    “That doesn’t change the fact that your argument is inconsistent.” – Comrade Stalin

    It would only be inconsistent if I, like you, made the mistake of conflating all of the different departments of the state. I, however, did not make your schoolboy error in elementary reasoning.

    “…the state in its zealous imperative to censor the unwelcome and non-conforming investigative reporting were rebuffed by the courts which upheld the freedom of the press that the state actively tried to undermine.”

    Do you still not grasp from that statement (post No 7 of page 3) that the judiciary is seen as acting independently of the government and of the security services?

    For there to be any inconsistency, I would have to made the mistake that you made and conflate all areas of the state as being one.

    Another flaw that I see – in addition to your two outlandish conspiracy theories – is that you conflated a private individual with a government minister. The erroneous result of your conflation was to imply that the British state did not launch an attack on press freedom by branding anyone who refused to disseminate state-sponsored propaganda as “dissident journalists” because it was actually ‘Marty, ordinary bloke from the Bogside’ giving his opinion on a bar stool to other drunks in private and not a government minister making a statement in his official role as Deputy First Minister flanked by the First Minister, Peter Robinson. Here is where you made that error: “McGuinness isn’t exactly an individual with a history of tolerating dissent and criticism.”

    The main flaw with your leprechaun logic is the state could never be held to have acted dishonourably in any matter unless all parts of the state colluded with each other. This means in practice that the FRU could never murder anyone because the courts might not be aware of it and therefore would not be able to collude in the murder. It is not nessessary for the courts to collude with a dishonourable act by the state before the act is deemed dishonourable. Indeed, the independence of the judiciary from political control means that they are often the only part of the British state to retain any honour.

  • Alias

    Oh, and I almost forgot to mention your 3rd outlandish conspiracy theory: that all judges and officials of the court are corrupt and are controlled by the state.

    For the love of g-d, get help for your rampamt paranoia!