“I moved immediately both to stop that and to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin..”

According to Gerry Adams’ previous version of events..

Mr Adams denied that Liam was nominated as a potential Sinn Féin candidate in the Dundalk area after the Sinn Féin leader broke ties with his brother. He said that as soon as he heard of the possibility his brother might be nominated, he moved to ensure that such a thing could not happen. “I moved immediately both to stop that and to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin without telling people why. But I moved very, very quickly. He wasn’t a contender, there was no nomination for Liam Adams in the Dundalk area. There was no convention in which his name was put forward, there was no contest in which he was part of.”

But today’s Sunday Tribune has pictures, from a Dundalk Argus article, of Gerry Adams canvassing in Dundalk in June 1997 with Liam Adams on behalf of the SF candidate Owen Hanratty. [Added link to Sunday Tribune front-page article]
Gerry and Liam Adams June 1997

Updated below the fold.And we’ve been sent another photograph of the Adams brothers canvassing together in Dundalk in 1997.

Gerry and Liam Adams Dundalk 1997

And there are still questions about what happened in west Belfast..

Adds From Suzanne Breen’s Sunday Tribune article [added link]

We have also statements from three republicans who were present at the selection convention in the Imperial Hotel, which Sinn Féin still denies took place. It was chaired by Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin and minutes were taken, the sources said. Liam Adams was supported by Belfast republicans living in Dundalk who were moderates and pro-leadership.

Local Dundalk republicans, and south Armagh men living in Co Louth, rallied behind Hanratty. After a debate, it was agreed that IRA activists and republican supporters who weren’t in Sinn Féin could vote at the meeting.

“The room was packed,” one source said. “Liam Adams came in with two envelopes. I’m told one was an acceptance speech and the other was one of him conceding. He immediately saw from the crowd gathered that he wouldn’t win, so he pulled out. A massive show-of-hands defeat would have damaged his brother.”

“Another source said: “Liam announced to the room that he was withdrawing from the race. He wished Owen Hanratty all the best, pledged to work for him on his campaign, and they shook hands.”

Sinn Féin claims Liam’s involvement in the party in Dundalk was brief, but republican sources insist it lasted at least seven years. One source said Gerry Adams regularly visited his brother in Muirhevnamor, staying overnight in his home many times.

Update According to the BBC report

A Sinn Fein spokesman said it saw no conflict with the Sunday Tribune’s claims and Mr Adams’ previous comments on meetings with his brother.

“Gerry Adams has made it clear that he did see his brother on occasions in the 1990s and made it clear when he discovered he was a member of the party in the Dundalk area he moved to have him expelled in the late 1990s,” a Sinn Fein spokesman added.

Which is a reference to the RTÉ interview with Tommie Gorman.

Except that, as noted above, Gerry Adams subsequently said that, as soon as he heard of the possibility his brother might be nominated as the Sinn Féin candidate for Co Louth in the 1997 general election he “moved immediately both to stop that and to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin”.

That’s before Sinn Féin selected Owen Hanratty as their candidate for Co Louth in 1997.

And before Gerry Adams joined Liam Adams on the streets of Dundalk canvassing for Hanratty.

  • Mark McGregor

    Until these photographs and reports I was of the opinion there was no ‘smoking gun’ that had undid Gerry’s story enough and made his position untenable.

    There is now damning evidence of him ignoring the presence of a man he believed guilty of incest and paedophilia and not only allowing him to remain in the republican movement but to progress within it.

    However, I still fully expect SF to overlook the many holes in his story and to carry on regardless.

  • I have long enjoyed Slugger hounding Adams on a variety of topics where the inconsistency and denial evident in many of his public utterances have been subject to rigorous examination but the continued politicisations of this tragic case is both unseemly and unwise given the pending legal proceeedings, let us not forget that this is a tragic case about child abuse which will hopefully be dealt swiftly with before the courts.

  • John O’Connell

    Good post, Pete.

    Adams tends to lie, it seems, every time he opens his mouth. He seems to be very cosy with his brother rather than the alienated brother who he never knew was a youth worker or a Sinn Fein activist in Dundalk. Surely its time for a reappraisal of his position.

  • ranger1640

    This issue of the blatant lies that Adams is coming out with are not for the Unionist side of the fence but for the nationalist/republican side.

    As a Unionist we have seen Adams blatantly tell lies and half truths. He is a master in the tactics of deflection, spin and victim-hood, all he has used in this case.

    It is for the nationalists/republicans to get the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, collective monkey off their backs, and see Adams and Sinn Fein/IRA for what they are.

    Until the nationalists/republicans realize that that Adams and Sinn Fein/IRA have a vested interest in keeping their communities and electorate subjugated then the cycle of some old, same old in nationalist/republican areas will continue for ever

  • Comrade Stalin

    As a Unionist … It is for the nationalists/republicans to get the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, collective monkey off their backs, and see Adams and Sinn Fein/IRA for what they are.

    Quite.

  • Paul

    well well well we all knew that Gerry Adams accounts simply dont and didnt add up.The photos tell us all what we all needed to know about Gerry Adams.This man has told blantant untruths and there will be lots more to come out yet I have no doubt about that.Everybody is quite rightly appalled by this scandal.Gerry Adams and Sinn feins behavier have being both appalling and quite frankly disgracful/with there constant trolling/spinning/Utterly sickening now lets see folks if gerry adams and sinn fein have any shred of decency which i doubt it though.Any other person would of gone by now totally.

  • querulus

    I can understand the determination to damage G Adams, police, social services, sinn fein, Fr Troy etc etc for their roles in this tragedy. It is possible some or all deserve all that may come to them. I am not sure that now is the time to pursue them. By continuously highlighting the role of others we are repeating the mistakes of the past when Aine’s childhood abuse apparently was set aside by people/organisations with other agendas. I would hate to think that Aine is reading all this with a sense of deja vu – she is unimportant and her years of abuse are only important to people who can use them, not to get justice for her, but to settle scores for themselves. The possibility has been raised that the exposure may assist a defence, or frustrate a trial – devastating for the victim I am sure. Can the months leading to the trial not be used to research and prepare these attacks? When the trial is over and Aine is out of the public gaze, hopefully satisfied with the outcome, those other targets are fair game, but not to her detriment. I know I am repeating what I have said on other threads, but not many see this from Aine’s point of view. When we know if there is enough evidence to convict Liam Adams, or if he admitted it, then everyone involved can hopefully get what they deserve. And threads like these will be important in bringing their roles to the fore, whether for good or ill.

  • ranger1640
  • Only Asking
  • Only Asking

    They also report that provos protected paedophiles

  • Only Asking

    Apparently according to this SW article, Adams was on the management committee at B’mount.

  • Only Asking

    Click on the images and it will make them big enough to read.

  • Only Asking
  • Scaramoosh

    The hounding of Adams is pathetic; sad; banal; boring; self-serving and immature.

  • Paul

    #

    The hounding of Adams is pathetic; sad; banal; boring; self-serving and immature.
    Posted by Scaramoosh on Dec 27, 2009 @ 04:34 PM

    Its people like you that make me and the vast majority of people sick.There are questions to be answered wether you like it or not and no amount of the Sinners/trolls /spinners spinning moaning and groaning will stop the whole truth of this scandal coming out get real and if you cant except that Gerry ADams position is untenable you are not living in the real world.

  • John O’Connell

    What Adams has said throughout the course of the Troubles is true, of course. He used to say, “They treated us like animals.”

    I thought he was referring to the British, of course. But it seems he was referring to his own father. Physical and psychological abuse are at the heart of the Sinn Fein mindset. There is no point arguing with them about how they were treated. It’s just a matter of them realising and admitting that the abuse of their own fathers was greater than any abuse by the state forces. That’s why they feel aggreived.

  • Paddy

    Sinn Fein reminds me of that groucho Marx quip: Gerry should not want to belong to any club (SF) that would have him as a member.

    If Gerry was the duce of any other political group, eg BNP, SNP, FF etc would he be gone with all these GUBU revelations?

  • Paddy

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8431807.stm

    Liam Adams has bad teeth, it seems. It also seem Gerry was more interested in keeping him away from Sinn Fein’s high table than in keeping him away from kids.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    as I understand the facts…

    1.Gerry Adams was told by his niece in 1987 that his brother (her father) was sexually abusing and raping her
    2. Gerry Adams says now that he believed her when he was told in the 80’s

    3. the brothers…gerry and liam were campaigning together in 1997 (ten years after Gerry says he belived brother liam was a rapist/child molester).

    It is so nasty—Gerry is not fit to be president of sinn fein…not fit to be a MP and not fit to hold office. The bishops who did similiar things have resigned…go gerry go now

  • Kathy, what Gerry Adams says may not have been a fact.

  • Only Asking

    What moral authority did he have?

    Nevin, they’re simply getting carried away with the analogy to the Irish bishops imv. So the question does beg an answer, if Adams (G) had no moral authority in the first place then why all the outrage about his behaviour over this issue? One old saying comes to mind and that is ‘what do ye expect from a pig but a grunt’. That is why all this hounding and comparison to the bishops has surprised me. In fact he cannot be compared to the bishops unless he did carry moral authority, which he never did.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    Hi Nevin, Gerry stated in the press that ‘he belived her’. Whether he did or didn’t really wasn’t the issue I was making…what is important is that he SAYS he belived her back then. So…since he made this statement…everything he has done since he SAYS he believed her back in the 80’s can come under question. Even if gerry is just saying it now because he figures to say otherwise would cause him more political problems…he wants the world to believe that he believed her. So then…his actions of campaigning with his rapist brother…brings into question his judgemenet and qualities to be leader.
    Just imagine if this entire situation occured and the person’s name was not Gerry Adams but the leader of the DUP or UUP or SDLP…would their be such silence by sinn fein.
    Sinn fein wasn’t silenet when bishops were reported to have acted like gerry adams…but they sure are quite now. They look like they are afraid of the man who protected a rapist.

  • Paddy

    Perhaps they are aiming to consolidate the Paedophile vote. Either that or the world will soon be shot of Great Leader Adams. And like all fiefdoms, there is no one to replace him.

    Interesting piece in The Tribune above that Paddy Adams was renting our guns to crims, and not being nutted for it.

  • Only Asking

    Kathy, Gerry has said an awful lot of stuff, and to take one sentence out of this issue and not everything else and hold him to account for it is bizzarre.

    Sinn fein wasn’t silenet when bishops were reported to have acted like gerry adams…

    I must have missed something living as I do north of the border that perhaps you picked up, but I didn’t hear SF on anything about the bishops, there was no party statement that I’m aware off. I’m not saying that clerical abuse of children was only a southern issue but if the shinners were screaming about it north of the border I never heard them, did they even omit a squalid squeak as a political party in the south?

  • Only Asking, Raymond Ó Snodaigh issued a statement

    It represents a gross betrayal of generations of children by powerful people in clerical and State authorities.

    This report is a reminder of the truth of the saying that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The hierarchical and totally male dominated structure of the Catholic Church gives bishops virtually absolute power in their own dioceses with the ultimate power residing in the Vatican. This has been a recipe for disaster for anyone – and especially any child – who finds him or her self a victim of abuse by clerics. …

    Anyone, including Gardaí, found to be complicit in the cover up of child abuse must face the full rigours of the law. …

    We must move to a democratically controlled education system, truly representative of the community, respecting the rights of people of all religions and none and totally child-centred.

  • Only Asking

    Thanks nevin, it’s something at least.

  • Only Asking, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin made similar comments when the Ryan Report was debated in the Dáil:

    The Report of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse is probably the greatest ever indictment of the powerful and the privileged in Church and State in Ireland. Religious orders, the Catholic Church hierarchy, successive Governments and the Department of Education stand indicted for the torture and murder of children and for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. The crimes were compounded by the cover-ups and it has taken the survivors many long and painful years to expose the truth and to achieve the recognition they deserve.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathy Collins

    Hi only asking…check out gerry adams blog…he had tons to say about the abuse scandal. I even commented on it (until they banned me) regarding his statement.

    Paddy, I can think of several to replace adams…I think Martin Ferris should be named pres. and an overture to many who left sinn fein should be made….and ask Brendan from Garvahy road to be vice president. I think if that happened…the party would be stronger than it is now. It would atleast be more representative of the north and south. Anyway you look at it…the world has seen gerry adams in too many lies…he is not believable anymore. He has stayed too long and should leave the scene.

  • Alias

    “I think Martin Ferris should be named pres.” – Kathy C

    So Gerry Adams is unacceptable as party leader because he supports a paedophile but Martin Ferris is acceptable because he only supports murderers and thieves, thereby having a higher moral profile than Gerry Adams?

    It just goes to show how this process of integrating the members of organised murder gangs into the political system has corrupted the public’s value system. But then again, that corruption of values was necessary in order for the state to engineer support for that process. It had to be presented that psychopaths were just like normal people except that they were victims of unfortunate circumstances who would have been doctors and lawyers if not for said unfortunate circumstances.

  • Pete Baker

    I’ve updated the post to note Sinn Féin’s “no conflict” line.

  • Turgon

    Alias,
    I think you misunderstand Kathy C.
    Unless she is a different Kathy C to previously: she is an American who I believe still lives in the US and opposes Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein as they no longer publicly advocate violence.

    Integrating her previous and current posting it appears that the sexual abuse of young children is completely reprehensible and anyone who explained away or covered it up should hang their head in shame (few of us will argue with that – I certainly will not). However, children’s murder by an unelected and unaccountable group of terrorists (if it is for the greater glory of a united Ireland) is entirely commendable and those who explain it away and cover it up are heroes.

    Now maybe Kathy C will prove me wrong by explaining that the murder of Kathryn Eakin at Claudy was completely wrong, immoral and that anyone who in any way tries to justify it should hang their heads in shame. Alternatively she may not.

    Now before anyone cries playing the man (or woman): denouncing paedophiles but lauding child murderers is a moral and intellectual position which is sufficiently interesting (read hypocritical) to highlight.

  • Blair

    Questions arise from all of this.

    Did the original statement from Gerry Adams scupper any chance of a ‘fair’ trial in Northern Ireland?

    Do his obvious lies and their exposure in the Sunday Tribune scupper any chance of a ‘fair’ trial in the ROI?

    Was this the plan all along? Will Irish nationalism continue to support him as the leader of their majority party in Northern Ireland?

  • Jimmy_Sands

    So Adams is a liar. It’s hardly the biggest fib he’s told. Not even top 20. How is this news?

  • riverlagan

    Is Gerry’s Channel 4 documentary, regarding his spirituality, still in the works, or has it been scrapped?

  • Alias

    Turgon, the public have a sentimental attachment to the welfare of children so you might expect that sentiment to extend to disapproval of those whose actions have deprived a child of a limb, the use of her eyes, a parent, etc, or of its life, but it doesn’t extend that far. So it is okay to cause that child ‘collateral’ distress but woe betide anyone who might abduct and murder a mother of ten with the express purpose of making orphans out of that mothers’ children. The public are a fickle lot, alas.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathy C

    Hi Turgon,
    Yes, I live in the US. Yes, I now oppose Gerry Adams leadership for many reasons. You are incorrect to state I oppose him because,
    ” Sinn Fein as they no longer publicly advocate violence.” I’ve stated for some time that Gerry Adams can no longer be believed due to his lies he has been caught in over the past few years including but not limited to how he puffed himself up as a prisoner stating the other prisoners sang a song that was not even written at the time. He used this to make himself look good. ALso, I do not like that he has taken a more pro-orange approach stating the orange order has a right to march in an United Ireland. I do not believe this to be right and go with the statements of 1997 that the orange order marching is akin to the KKK marching in Harlem.
    You raise a very serious question concerning the death of Kathryn Eakin. As I understand it…no group or person as taken responsibility for her death so I won’t say that a certain group or person is wrong for having killed her when we don’t know who did. I will say that sadly many children died during the troubles. Some were Catholics shot with plastic bullets by the british forces…and the british forces were sent their by their elected officials and many saw the british forces as terrorist even though their elected officials were picked by the people of great britian…and government orders allowed plastic bullets to be used on civilians.
    The loss of children …any child is a loss felt by all society…whether Catholic, Protestant, Republican or Unionist.
    There is much loss on both sides…and tears shed for many loved ones.
    I see this current situation with Gerry Adams this way…he is an elected offical…he is the president of an accepted political party…and he states he believed his brother sexually abused and raped his niece in the 1980’s. Then he tried to get the victim (his niece who was still a child at 14) to meet with his brother the rapist. This shows severe lack of judgement and caring. This quesetions he abilitiy to be the president of the party. Then gerry adams campaigned with his brother who he felt was a child rapist in 1997. Again…this is unacceptable behavior and gerry adams is unfit to serve and should leave the political stage…hopefully by the back door so we don’t have to be botherered with him anymore.
    I hope this answers your questions.

  • Kevsterino

    Well, it would appear that there are a large group of people in Northern Ireland and further afield who wish to be part of Gerry Adams’ political demise. Such has been the case for many years.

    What is being offered as the reason for his inevitable downfall? That he had knowledge of criminal behavior (note the spelling, I am an American) of his brother and did nothing about it.

    Mind you, I don’t pretend to know much of the mood of the electorate in Belfast, but doesn’t that seem a bit weak compared to the hunger strike stories a while back? Or the Bloody Friday stories before that? Or the Jean McConnville stories …

    My point is that I don’t understand why people here seem to think this story is the one that will bring him down. It just looks like wishful thinking to me.

    Happy New Year everybody and all the best

  • Turgon

    Kathy C,
    The defence that the IRA did not claim the Claudy murders does not wash.

    I see that you continue to condemn the abuse of children (good) but still do not condemn the murder of Kathyrn Eakin by a group of unaccountable killers who decided that she and others should die. That still leaves you in a moral wasteland; essentially the same one inhabited by Gerry Adams.

  • tacapall

    Maybe you should read your history turgon !

    12–15 February 1922: In Belfast, violence erupted in response to the Clones shootings. Between 37 and 39 people were killed. This included six children who were killed when loyalists threw a grenade into their school yard. Forty other children were injured in this attack

    No side has a monoply on suffering and wheither actions are morally right or wrong I could go on and list the civilian casualties including children that has happened and still is in Iraq looking for non existant weapons of mass destruction, they even give one of their leaders a nobel peace prize for his troubles.

  • Turgon

    tacapall,
    Now tell me when have I justified or condoned the actions of loyalist terrorists? You will be searching a long time.

    I have always been consistent in my contempt for the criminal murderers of all sides. In that I am of course the same as the overwhelming majority of the population here be they unionist or nationalist or other. The exceptions are some terrorist cheerleaders.

  • tacapall,

    I noticed your reference regarding 1922 was from Wiki – anybody recommend a good book covering this period in Belfast.

  • tacapall

    All violence is wrong no matter what the purpose is. I am pointing out that there are very few leaders around the world that have the high moral ground when it comes to fighting conflicts or wars. Innocent men, women and children people were killed here but it was not confined to one group, be that Republicans, Loylists, The R.U.C or british forces. After all we have come through and survived are we still going to bicker about the past. Yes Gerry Adams has to explain his actions and why his brother got away with this for so long, but it is not only him that needs to explain themselves it is the police as well, they have also many questions to answer.

  • John O’Connell

    Kevsterino

    My point is that I don’t understand why people here seem to think this story is the one that will bring him down. It just looks like wishful thinking to me.

    It may not bring him down but it will damage Sinn Fein. The reality is that the masculine pretext for Sinn Fein has been breached. Gerry’s state is now a survivor of child abuse rather than an extremely masculine leader. This won’t go down well among the hardliners who expect him to be the real McCoy.

  • Turgon

    tacapall,
    Unfortunately the majority of people here (of all sides) still feel that murder is was and remains murder. Hence, Claudy, Kingsmills and Teebane are just as wrong as Loughinisland, Sean Graham’s bookmakers and the Shankill butchers.

    The problem is that these acts were committed by individual criminals, helped and supported by others; certainly. However, the vast majority of people knew nothing about these crimes and have absolutely no moral responsibility.

    Recently a man was arrested over the murder of a 9 year old girl in 1981. Now I am delighted that that case may be solved (subject to a trial and innocence until proven guilty etc.). Prosecuting a murderer from the past is not bickering about the past. By that analysis attempting to prosecute Liam Adams over his daughter’s allegations is also bickering about the past and I am sure you do not support ignoring her allegations.

    As such we should also peruse Jennifer Cardy and Kathyrn Eakin’s murderers.

  • Peter Fyfe

    Jo’c

    Will they vote for the masculinity of a Rithchie led party instead? You really take too much pleasure in this story and it is disgusting and sickening that you choose to exploit these revelations to muse on whether Gerry Adams was abused as a child. That it is not why victims of abuse come out, it is not for the entertainment of others but for justice that they take that very brave and commendable step. Don’t accuse me of being a supporter of Adams as I have commented on other threads about how wrong his actions, as reported by the Sunday Tribune, were and how he should step down.

  • Peter Fyfe

    Turgon

    Is that support for inquiries into collusion I hear from you? Is it a renewed support for the Bloody Sunday enquiry before it reports its findings? Whats your thoughts on criminal acts carried out by a british regiment with the help of others? Is it diffrent from a criminal individual carrying out those acts? How about when state forces have assisted those individual criminals? I see your condemnation of Loyalists which you are of course consistant with, you just tend to ignore the actions of the state which leads to people questioning your moral authority when you seem to ignore such despicable things. Im sure deep down you are highly uncormfortable with these injustices but they don’t make the keyboard as much. I know I do the same, think it’s self concious. I don’t believe the actions of the IRA were right and may not say it as much as I should. I don’t vote for Sinn Fein, so we should clear that up before Im told I vote for or accept child murderers.

  • John O’Connell

    Peter Fyfe

    The SDLP is a female party and does not rely on masculinity to create an image of invulnerability.

    I take no pleasure at all in Gerry Adams suffering of abuse. I am attempting to make an American understand the way republicans think.

  • Turgon

    Peter Fyfe,
    As ever lying becomes you. Since you are a regular you will know that I have unreservedly condemned collusion. I am unsure just how much of it there was but I would like to see it exposed and those responsible punished. I have repeatedly said exactly that.

    I would also like to see investigation into the collusion between the RoI government, Gardai etc. and the IRA but that is seperate. I think collusion did occur between the security forces and loyalists and it should be exposed and punished.

    Of course since you know I have said all this before we can only conclude that you are trying to distract from the murders committed by the IRA; whatever you claim.

  • Peter Fyfe

    Turgon

    ‘They don’t make the keyboard as much’ were my words, hence acknowledging you have addressed the issue, yet you do not condemn it with the same contempt as you hold for republicans. When have you called the RUC or British army ‘murderers’? Or referred to their members as ‘child killers’? Don’t get precious with me, I was trying to be understanding towards things you find it uncormfortable to say. Your self rightousness should not suprise me however, as ever it becomes you. You accuse me of lying about my support for the IRA, why would I do this? Why post with my own name, then lie. I could disguise myself as you do, then people could trust I voice my own opinion. How would that work?

  • Peter Fyfe

    J O’C

    I don’t know why I tried to argue with you. Where was Gerry abused? You are still imagining he was, as if you want it to be true, that is what is disturbing to me.

  • Turgon

    Peter Fyfe,
    So you have been caught out lying and now try a bit of spinning: pathetic really. Your post was simply an attempt to deflect attention away from the crimes of terrorists.

    As to my contempt for republicans: I am proud of that. What you again lie about, however, is that a number of commentators have on a number of occasions mentioned that I hold loyalists in even higher contempt. Of course that would not fit your narrative so you lie about it: unsurprising.

    I also hold collusion in extreme contempt. I do not believe it was vast. I do, however, believe it was there. I have never made any bones about the fact that I would like all the colluding agents of the state to be prosecuted with the full rigour of the law. Anyone who committed murder was a murderer whatever organisation they were in. You know full well that has always been my position. I do not find it remotely uncomfortable to say. You wish I did as that would suit your narrative and so you lied about what I have said. Then you feign understanding: more pathetic lying dishonesty.

    Now you tell us do you think the murderers of Kathyrn Eakin, the murderers of those at Sean Graham’s shop, the Darkley, Kingsmills etc. murderers should be persued or are you just more worried about collusion?

    Or in reality are you trying a bit of distraction.

  • John O’Connell

    Peter Fyffe

    Where was Gerry abused?

    His whole family faced physical, emotional as well as sexual abuse at the hands of his father, as admitted by way of deflecting attention away from his niece’s suffering.

  • Peter Fyfe

    What am I lying about? Did I misquote myself? It is not an attempt to deflect criticism. The acts you mention are a disgrace on this area of the world and I am thankful I am only 24 and do not have a clear memory of the events I was alive for. It tortures me to think how did people stand by and let this happen. I have thought many times of leaving this god forsaken place when I think of what people did to each other and the indifference that existed. I acknowledged your condemnation of Loyalists, I asked about your lesser condemnation of state forces. Where did I lie about this? When have you referred to elemants of the security forces as,’ child killers’? You do not appear to treat it with the same contempt, that is my point. I acknowledged you have tackled the issue. When was the last time you interrupted a thread about sex crimes and labelled members of the security forces as, ‘child killers?’ Why would I lie about my opinions of different murders? I do not try to separate them like some, they are all a disgrace.

    You have some cheek talking about distraction, you used this thread about the abuse of a 4 year old child to label a fellow poster a supporter of child murderers because she won’t jump to your command. Must be great up there looking down on everybody.

  • Peter Fyfe

    You spelt my name incorrectly but I did abbreviate yours so I guess I deserved it. He says he did not know of the abuse to later years therefore I ask again where was Gerry abused?

  • Turgon

    Peter Fyfe,
    Caught out in the lying you keep spinning. Still not able to comment on child killers other than in the most obtuse terms are you Peter? Makes one wonder about that condemnation of your doesn’t it?

    However, you still cannot get it that I have repeatedly condemned collusion. I know that is inconvenient to your narrative and hence, I presume that is why you lie about it. However, the unfortunate fact is that you are lying. As I said it seems to be an attempt at distraction. As to me indulging in distraction I merely pointed out that Kathy C who condemned Gerry Adams for his inadequate response to a child abuser also supports child killers. That is called holding hypocrites to account.

    The fact that you tried to do the same to me and were exposed as a liar is I am sure distressing as you thought it was a clever move. However, it was a lie and you have been caught out. You might have the decency to admit it but since you lied at the start, are continuing to lie and show no interest in the truth makes me doubt practically all that you say. I even begin to doubt your supposed opposition to violence. Since you lie repeatedly about me and what I say am I not entitled to doubt the veracity of your other comments? Maybe you are a closet cheerleader?

    Now run along and dream up a few more untruths to tell about me.

  • Peter Fyfe

    Im sure deep down you are highly uncormfortable with these injustices but they don’t make the keyboard as much.

    I was being sincere when I said this, you may not believe me. To me you do not appear to be as forthright in your condemnation of state violence as that of republican or loyalist violence. If i’m wrong, I am genuinely sorry for offending you. Do not accuse me of condoning the murder of innocent people, I am not doing this. I have constantly condemned this time and time again on this thread as well as others.

  • Peter Fyfe

    I should point out that first line was a quite from the first post I made on this thread.

  • Kevsterino

    John,

    And so now the reason it will damage Sinn Fein is because Gerry Adams’ father was abusive? My head would hurt too much trying to put all these disjointed ideas forth regarding why Adams is now doomed.

    All I’ve been able to gather from the reports is that Liam Adams is accused by his daughter of raping her as a child. She evidently went to her uncle with this accusation and he didn’t do right by her, although Gerry Adams has repeatedly said that he believed the accusations the first time she told him.

    If the above is true, then he declined to act on his responsibilities as an uncle and a man. That is despicable.

    I wish, however, that the girl involved didn’t have to watch people making political hay out of her very personal tragedy. I find that simply awful and unworthy of honorable people.

  • Only Asking

    Now run along and dream up a few more untruths to tell about me.

    How do you get out of the house in the morning with that head? Everybody is a liar except you, all supprt terrorism except you, you don’t have a collar round your neck in real life do you, because you sure sound like you do, and we know what clerics are like don’t we?

  • Turgon

    Peter Fyfe,
    Your lying is now catching you out.
    On this thread you have just said about “I have constantly condemned this time and time again on this thread as well as others. “

    However, earlier on this thread you said this “I don’t believe the actions of the IRA were right and may not say it as much as I should.”

    So you clearly admit that you are much less interested in condemning the terrorist organisation which caused most of the murders (though it is unclear whether or not you regard them as murders – but we will leave that for the meantime). That is you who have admitted to this double standard in your own words.

    You then repeat your lie that I am inadequate in condemning any and all collusion. The problem here is that you are the one who by your own admission minimise the majority of the murders and raise in significance the ones you have a political interest in raising. That contrasts with many of us here – by no means only myself or other unionists – who denounce all the murders from whatever quarters. Indeed I am almost more appalled by any murders committed by people in the security forces as they were there to defend us from terrorists. You, however, minimise (by your own admission) the much, much larger number of murders committed by those whom you seem to semi approve of.

    Now as I said before run along and dream up some more lies. You might do some undisguised cheerleading as well as you have fairly clearly exposed yourself as a cheerleader.

  • Peter Fyfe

    Turgon

    Maybe you could start reading my whole posts and stop getting precious. You do not appear to hold the same contempt for state violence due to the much more regular occurance when you condemn republicans. I read this blog quite a bit and thats how it appears to me. That is my opinion, not a lie. I do not need to condemn when you ask me to, I’m happy with my own concience, I have never voted or been member of a party who has had members associate with paramilitaries. How is Trevor Collins getting along? I know your not a fan as I have saw previous posts, but you will still vote for his party I guess. Not all black ands white though, is it? I guess you know this and thats why you call me a terrorist cheerleader. Were you distracting the attention from yourself? I do not need to defend myself against supporting the actions of the IRA when you demand as I never have. Just out of interest how would that improve the life of anybody but yourself in hearing those words?

    I want to get this right. You have accused me of hijacking this thread away from republican murders because I support them. You stirred this thread away from talk of the protection of qa child abuser, are you a supporter of protecting child abusers by your logic? Of course your not, I just wish to highlight the flaw in your thinking. Of course I did say I do not condemn violence as often as I should, the reason I don’t is becasue I do not see it contributing anything positive. You may be more interested in killing conversation, I am 24 and would like to know what others think.

  • Turgon

    Peter Fyfe,
    Back you come again. We have already established that you do not condemn IRA violence as much as you might. Now I put it to you that that is beacuse you are actually in significamnt sympathy with the IRA’s campaign of violence. You certainly seem much more worried about all other sorts of violence than the IRA’s.

    That is why I gave you the opportunity to condemn the IRA: you did not; that tells us something about you.

    You again avoid admitting my ringing condemnation of any and all loyalist terrorism and that includes any which involved collusion.

    A few comments ago you said that “If i’m wrong, I am genuinely sorry for offending you.” Now you are saying that “You do not appear to hold the same contempt for state violence due to the much more regular occurance when you condemn republicans.” Make your mind up: either stick to lying abut me or apologise for it.

    In reality I have frequently condemned loyalist and republican murders. I also condemn any and all collusion and any murders committed by any of the security forces. I am entirely consistent on this. It is you who by your own admission “I don’t believe the actions of the IRA were right and may not say it as much as I should.”

    You are all over the place on this.

    Incidentally as a supposed non cheerleader why is it that you enthusiastically support the Maze shrine on the extremely dubious grounds that it is closer to the “primary sources.”

    On Bobby Sands this is your view:
    “Bobby sands was a person from Northern Ireland who joined the IRA, was jailed for his activities. While in the Maze Prison he took part in the blanket protests and eventually became the first person to refuse food as part of the hungerstrike of 1981. He died as a result.”

    If you are not a cheerleader you are at very best a minimiser of the wrong and immorality of the IRA. Your refusal to condemn them in answer to requests from myself and others explains your position. That and your admission that you do not condemn them as much as maybe you should.

    As to you being 24: I care little about your age. You seem to be a 24 year old minimiser of the crimes of the IRA and sometime cheerleader for hunger strikers. Why should I care what age people such as you are.

  • Kevsterino

    A person reading this thread could be forgiven for thinking the two of you don’t care for each other.

    Isn’t it a pity that a thread on a current and rather important development descends into a pissing contest of who condemns in the strongest terms collusion and the hunger strikes?

    I take it the moderator is off for the holidays.

  • Turgon

    Kevsterino,
    Probably a fair criticism.

    I think, however, this thread has become irrelevant re Gerry Adams as it has been passed by with several other threads about Gerry Adams and what he did or did not do and whether or not he will survive. Slugger threads often get side tracked for all manner of reasons; quite often because another thread takes up the original theme.

  • Kevsterino

    Fair enough, but I probably should have added my own opinion of the whole condemnation business, so as not to come off as some blog-nanny.

    Condemnation for too many represents their final step in dealing with these horrible things, as if folks believe they have now done their bit to keep virtue alive. It is simply not enough to condemn.

    In my opinion, if we are ever to improve our world, we need to take action root out the causes of the madness. If we merely condemn, we condemn our children and theirs to suffer similar atrocities.

    Happy New Year and all the best