Nigel Dodds now looking for institutional reform as a precondition for Policing and Justice…

And here’s a little thing to think on for the weekend… It’s an extract from Good Morning Ulster earlier in the week in which Nigel Dodds appears to lay out another pre condition for the ‘downloading’ of Policing and Justice… Institutional reform… It’s a small detail (and Mr Dodds is not leader, Mr Robinson is), but it is worth noting that it eluded the entire Northern Irish press corps for the three days it took me to overcome various tech problems to isolate the particular quote… If Sinn Fein keeps to their position that 2015 is their only date for institutional reform, they may have that wish granted…

Of course, this could all be a positioning maneuver… A rattling of swords in the background… But it seems to me that the DUP’s so-called ‘dirty dozen’ is no longer in panic mode… and is passing strategically useful notes from the ‘back benches’ so to speak, to their man at the front… Meanwhile, Adams and Co now ‘strategically’ find themselves in the position David Trimble once found himself in, when they bled him dry on decommissioning…

It will not serve the DUP well to follow Adams’ example, for current circumstances aptly demonstrate how overplaying an moderately strong hand can land you in a politically weak position… But neither will it serve them well to be seen to be generously to them when Sinn Fein has effectively used the St Andrews Agreement against the DUP to jump them into producing the keys to that notorious triple lock mechanism…

This side of the UK General Election it is hard to see who or what can exert the pressure, other than events, dear boy, events…

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  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit


    Deputy Dodsy may be referring to changes that have already been applied to the legislation e.g. no Unionist or Nationalist Minister of Justice.

  • Mick Fealty

    There’s that word again: ‘may’… If it is there is nothing to worry about… But then why mention it at all? It’s too subtle to be trying to play to the gallery…

  • Sir Reg Empey, in his conference leader’s speech, laid down the price for UUP acquiescence.

  • cut_the_bull

    the DUP have’nt got a shopping list they have a supermarket trolley. Its like supermarket sweep run up and down the aisles of Westminster filling the trolley with preconditions.
    Squeeze one out of Gordon and get two free at Perfidious Albion shopping centre

  • joeCanuck

    If only those Taigs would lie down and roll over and let us go back to the ways we understood would last forever. “Sigh”

  • Sam Flanagan

    I should think it only needs a little more pressure for some Lundy party figure to issue a statement saying, “Only a British citizen can be in charge of the office of policing and justice.”

    They are well and truly spooked.

  • percy

    I’d like to know more about these hidden keys to the triple lock mechanism.
    sounds distincely Da Vinci Code-ish!

    re P&J : all done by Xmas, but who are the turkeys?

  • cut_the_bull

    Some of the hard line zealots within the DUP have been exceptionally quiet.
    Once Gordon bends or withdraws on any of the secret deals,me thinks Peter will feel the wrath of a few fiery tongues upon him.

  • percy

    Its the DUP plan to reel the apostles out one by one, each with a demand..
    The question really needs turning on its head.
    What won’t the DUP ask for in order to agree to P&J

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    Slabbery, what’s wrong with you man? You’ve proclaimed the Punt’s fantastic unionist bung – getting rid of the Parades Commission – as in fact a Repulican triumph. One you, and you alone, had had the smarts to identify as such. Some unkind souls might have thought, well, a cefrtain level of tolerance had built up against the tablets, hence thse pronouncements. But here we are, and McMurderous and Agents Adams have stepped forward and cried bitterly and in detail aout what a *bad* thing any possible elimination of the Commission might be. I appreciate you’re not one of these pedants who feels the need to keep his storiesa straight, or anything silly like that, but perhaps, for your sake, a period of strategic hush might be in order? Otherwise the rest of us really are going to laugh ourselves to death at your expense, and where would you be without an audience? Where indeed.

  • Sean

    Honestly tory if you are that gasping for a little bit of attention from iwsmwdi, just ask him out for a coffee or a cyber chat and leave the rest of us out of it

  • percy

    its so boring isn’t it sean, maybe Mick should ban the troll LTU, never seen a post of his that isn’t ad hominem, but if one can be found, I’m willing to offer a full retraction..

  • cut_the_bull

    They ask Gordon to ban Halloween. Now with that on the table there’ll never be P&J

  • Sean

    Yeah Percy I get banned for asking Mick a question this joker does nothing but call names and is given a free pass

    But then again he is an unionist, they all seem to get a free pass

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    Yeah, it’s a *massive* unionist conspiracy: you are actually being discriminated by West Brit blogging: and, you are totally sane. And I agree with you, it *is* awful that every time Slabbery makes something up, along I come, sorry, troll, and say, Slabbery’s just made something up. If only there were a solution, but what?

  • i wonder

    I wonder is MH blogging from his cell.It always seems to be the most mouthy and strident.

  • percy

    I don’t have a problem with LTU’s political persusion, but from one who’s leader Trimble used to go on about about house -training; perhaps he could take some of his own advice regards in-house training here on the forum!

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    That’s right Sean: you are completely sane and lucid: this site is part of a vast, criminal conspiracy against Sinn Five. My goodness, where would we all be without well-mannered insights like these?

    As for post 16, golly, casual accusations of child rape against people whose political views you disagree with. Truly, in case anyone hasn’t said this before, northern Republicans are a class act. Nah, they’re actually astonishingly often whining, self-pitying unemployable lowlife, when, of course, they’re not in fact dutifully employed by Thames House. Ho, ho, ho.

  • Seymour Major

    The DUP may be looking for more obstacles to prevent the transfer of P & J but by far the most ugly aspect of the DUP’s politicking is their failure to engage appropriately with the other parties over what is an exceptionally important constitutional issue.

  • “the DUP’s so-called ‘dirty dozen’”

    aka the twelve apostles

  • Wrinklie Jane

    If he spent as much time looking for institutional reform as a precondition for Policing and Justice as he did looking for expense claims then unionism would be far better off

  • Expenses111

    Mick what a guy you are…..

  • i wonder

    I wonder IS MICK OR PETE really Laughing (Tory) Unionist or maybe turban because how this guy hasnt been kicked for ever I dont know after seeing people getting carded for a lot less.
    That’s right Sean: you are completely sane and lucid: this site is part of a vast, criminal conspiracy against Sinn Five. My goodness, where would we all be without well-mannered insights like these?

    As for post 16, golly, casual accusations of child rape against people whose political views you disagree with. Truly, in case anyone hasn’t said this before, northern Republicans are a class act. Nah, they’re actually astonishingly often whining, self-pitying unemployable lowlife, when, of course, they’re not in fact dutifully employed by Thames House. Ho, ho, ho.

  • Sean

    LTU since I keep getting banned for asking questions Mick doesn’t want to answe maybe I shoul;d do the adhomminem attacks like you that way I can stay

    I was unaware that this site had coomitted crimes tory perhaps you could enumerate them for us so that they can be reported to the propper authorities

    As for the conspiracy it takes numerous people to form one and I am guessing even the like minded on here would prefer not being associated with you even in private

    Thanks for banning me again mick it re-inforces my popint about your bias

  • fin

    “casual accusations of child rape”

    He’s been arrested and is currently in Court.

    I guess by ‘casual’ you must mean he was sans a bowler hat and sash and turned up in jeans instead.

  • Jesus

    How many apostles are there now one wonders?

    Nigel Dodds, Gregory Campbell, Willie McCrea, David Simpson, Lord Morrow, Diane Dodds, Nelson McCausland, Paul Girvan, Stephen Moutray, Mervyn Storey, Tom Buchanen and Jim Wells were the original dirty dozen but does Diane & Girvan still hold any sway since they lost their assembly seats?

    Should we be adding the likes of Ian McCrea & Trevor Clarke to this list since their election in 07?

  • Panic, These ones likes it up them.

    Jeez Santa Claus must get some long winded letters from the DUP before Christmas.

  • percy

    I think the reason Mick gives latitude to the reactionary unionist/loyalist is possibly either or both:

    a) they don’t know any better, and he wants them to comment for balance.

    b) republicans are tough enough to take it and deal with it, as we meet this shite every day.

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    Yeah, Percy, the constant moping on Slugger points up just how ‘tough’ republicans are – whether it’s blwing babies to bits In Claudy, or being, dant! dant! dah! being criticised on the internet, ‘toughness’ is almost the very first word that sprinds to mind when one thinks of Slugger’s dear ould Provettes.

    As for Fin, I am gneuinely sorry to read your post, as hitherto I hadn’t thought you were thick. The casual accusationw as not the one made against the monster Harbinson, but was, plainly, that I was he. It wasn’t a difficult smear to follow, and, natch, for Slugger’s ‘toughest’ group it wasn’t a hard smear to make. But then, pace the latest ‘disappeared’ saga, I suppose murdering, or cheering on the slaughter of the retarded by armed cowards really goes some distance to ‘toughening’ people up.

    But never mind *any* of that, what will the Gigantic West Brit conspiracy do now that Sean has rumbled us? How long can the shame continue of opinions Sean doesn’t like being available on the dant! dant! dah! internet? Truly, has not Oireland suffered enough that Sean has to read stuff that Sean doesn’t agree with?

    yet more than anything else, I’m glad Slabbery has conclusively run away from his spacerims this week that the government abolishing the Parades Commissionw as actually a huge Republican gain. or perhaps I’m wrong, perhaps Slabbery’s off preparing an opus setting out for us how, in fact, *he* knows better than both McMurderous and Agent Adams what’s better for northern Republicans? Put not past a plastic: they’re extraordinary people.

  • percy

    With all that whataboutery machine-gun fire, you’re quite hilarious.
    Have you covered everything? you sure? got past 1998?
    Now remove all that, plus the ad hominems, plus conspiracy theories, personal abuse, rantings what’s left?

    Now on thread, we’re waiting for reactions from Brit/Irish Gov’t, NIO, & other parties.
    probaly won’t get too much til monday, so.. if its ok with Mick:

    pls show us some more of your tatoos, and don’t go away, as this is too enjoyable.

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    Are you two sure sure you’re okay? Neither of you mewled for anyone you didn’t like to banned, then whined that you were both victims of a conspiracy. I suppose it’s handing out all those mini-snickers to the kids: tires a man out even from his MOPEing duties. But I’m glad you’re both laughing: I’m still winded from that ‘toughness’ riff. Ah, Provettes, is there any self-awarness you cannae lack?

  • percy

    we better not tell him that neither of us are in or from the North,
    it would just be too much for him to take .. hahaha!
    I reckon he’s got a few union jack/bulldog tattoos though, what dya reckon?
    get down the gym LTU and awy with your slabberin!

  • percy

    The intergalactic confederation of republican forces (ICRF) are displeased with your rejections of peace and equality with your neighbours.

    Your lack of discipline particularly offends the council.
    We will shortly be sending our earthly representative to instruct you in the ways of harmony and justice.

    Be warned for the end-times as you earthlings call it, is soon to be called on your foolish ways!

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    Jeez, *neither* of you are in or from the North. Who’d ever have had ya down as a pair o’ plastics? Oh wait.

    Percy: as long as they’re not a member of the Alliance party, I really don’t mind which planet they’re from.

  • percy

    That’s a bit better LTU,
    plastics are back in fashion tho, didn’t ya know? oh yes.

  • percy

    thanks sean very interesting, will bear that in mind.
    He can’t take it can he?.. what a loser!
    seen the drop in traffic over yonder.. missing their leader, they call the fearless one.. tee hee hee.

  • Mick


    This is a great example of why you are banned. You have little to say on the matter above and a great deal to say about commenters whose views you object to. Now remind me again why you are still here?

  • Sean

    because I like to see the different sides of the arguement Mick, I don’t have the spare time the presenters on here have. and besides the unionist tolls on here occasionaly come up with new facts to change my perspective.

    As for complaining about my comments it seems very hypocritical to complain about what I post while allowing andy pandy to post nothing but abuse and JOC his paranoid ramblings about the anti-christ. Where did my postings become abusive or even personal. I was in fact polite

  • Sean

    As for the subject of the post obviously the DUPers think they have the whip hand on SF and are talking themselves into a corner. If they kept their demands reasonable and focused they might get the sweeteners they really want. SF have proved if nothing else that they are flexible. Trying to remain as inflexable as apparently so many unionist on here want the DUPers to be means when the winds of change come blowing they shatter in the high winds while the flexible twist with the wind.

    But from what I have read here most posters want the parties to remain idealistic instead of practical. But from the voting paterns it seems the actual voters want the politicians to be practical and not idealistic which is why SF votes always seem to increase and modern unionist partise flare up and seemingly burn out

  • Laughing (Tory) Unionist

    Ho hum. Post 11, at 12.33, wasn’t me. I’m sorry, Percy, that Slugger unfortunately lets this sort of thing slip through. But here’s a general rule of thumb for you: I don’t swear. It’s generally the giveaway line of when other people have lost it. And that of course they’ve lost it to the extent that they have to past themselves off as other posters, well, it’s not so much that they’ve lost a point, as it’s game, set and match.

  • Reader

    Sean: SF have proved if nothing else that they are flexible.
    So flexible that it looks as though they aren’t involved in the negotiations at all! The DUP is dealing with Brown.

  • Sean

    like I said before

    Idealism is for when you are outside the tent peeing in

    Pragmatism is for when you are inside the tent trying to stay dry

    DUPers don’t seem to understand they are inside the tent

    I wonder if deputy doddsy is off the reservation with out permision, writing checks robbo has to try and cash

  • percy

    I accept that wasn’t you at post 11, and agree with your analysis; sock puppets are spoilers.
    I think your chess is good, and look forward to some good games in the future.

  • percy

    I’m not going to come between you and Mick, it would be rude.
    However LTU does give us all a chance to raise our game.
    He clearly is a player, so the idea is to open him up and score a few gaols — professionaly 😉

  • Comrade Stalin


    DUPers don’t seem to understand they are inside the tent

    I don’t think the tent analogy works too well. When it comes down to brass tacks, the simple truth is that the DUP are not as heavily invested in the political process as SF are. If the whole thing collapses tomorrow, they’ve still got an active party in Westminster where they can exert influence. What will SF have ?

    That’s why SF are backing down to all of the DUP’s demands, and are likely to continue to do so.

    Anyway, I don’t see the issues of the police reserve and the parades commission as being concessions for SF to give. Parades Commission reform isn’t inherently bad as long as it is done right. And the RUC reserve getting a payoff is a drop in the ocean.

  • Sean


    What ever happens in westminister nIreland is a non entity 99% of the time. For the remaining 1% of the time they are the secret embarasment of the real UK parties. Nireland is not british, it might be british light or british alternative but it will never be british mainstream because nIreland is Irish not british. No matter how much the wannabe’s protest

  • Comrade Stalin

    Sean, I assume that you are not disputing the fact that for Sinn Fein, there is no other show in town apart from devolution ?

    Are you also not disputing that Sinn Fein are upholding a process that consists largely of concessions to the DUP ?

  • Sean

    There is no other show for any one but devolution. Direct rule has worked much better for SF than unionists for the last 10 years but its all about controlling the future and not just about going along for the ride

    Pragmatism comrade it means you have to do what works not what you want

    For intance Joe are you doing What you want for a living or are you doing what pays the mortgage

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit


    Amongst all the spin the only clear ‘winner’ is the Alliance Party who are in line for a Ministry.

    The party that has been damaged the most by the entire STA process is the DUP – having lost a quarter of their vote with SF potentially benefitting by becoming the largest party (as per the Euros) as a result.

    The abolition of the Parades Commission is not something as you pointd out something that can be granted by SF and not something that was won by the DUP – the potential benefit to either ‘side’ will have to be seen.

  • fair_deal

    The process has been an instrumental one from the beginning and P&J is the last big sub-deal to be made. There will be little scope for change until 2015 and the likelihood of 2015 producing tame/limited proposals pretty high. Therefore the potential of this sub-deal needs to be milked for all it can.


    ” laid down the price for UUP acquiescence. ”

    What reg ‘demanded’ was already offered in Septmeber.