Visioning 21st Century Ecumenism survey…

Gladys Ganiel, author of the excellent Evangelicalism and Conflict in Northern Ireland (Contemporary Anthropology of Religion), has been conducting a couple of online surveys, one aimed at clergy and the other aimed at lay people. Both can be found and completed here… Here’s Gladys’s interview on Morning Ireland, and another on Sunday Sequence… The survey will only be open for another eight days (it’s be going since April)… It will look at all sorts of demographic detail as well as religious attitudes… and relations between Catholic and Protestants, north and south… Pretty timely given the Republic’s attempt to bring in a blasphemy law… And the still fraught inter church relations in Northern Ireland…

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  • Driftwood

    I checked out 1 of the links
    http://www.ecumenics.ie/content.php?cid=1049

    A barrage of cliches and social science gobbledygook. Hilarious stuff, ‘researchers’ are getting paid for this guff??

    For better writing clarity i prefer journalists..

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fiskrsquos-world-tanks-roll-and-guns-fall-silent-but-the-clichs-go-on-for-ever-1731283.html

  • Ulsters my homeland

    I’m all for ecumenicalisn, but not with the church of Rome.

    The church of Rome has corrupted the work of Christ and been identified as the Harlot, and the Pope as the man of sin in 2 Thess.

    Tergandus (9th Century Bishop of Treves0, Arnulphus (10th century Bishop of Orleans), the Manichees (11th century), Berenger of Tours (11th century), the Petrobusians, Paulicians, Henricians, Arnoldists, and Paterines (12th century), the Waldensians (12th century), the Albigenses (13th century), The Bohemians (13th century), John Huss (14th century), Lollards of the (14th + 15th centuries), the Reformers Luther, Melancthon, Calvin, Latimer, Sir Issac Newton, Mede, Whiston, Bishop Newton, Lowth, Daubuz, Jurieu, Vitringa, Bedell, and others. The Westminster Confession of Faith states “There is no other Head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof: but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church, against Christ and all that is called God” (Westminster Confession of Faith, 1648, chapter 25, section 6).. On December 1, 1520, Martin Luther published two tracts in answer to the Bull of Leo X, one of which was entitled, Martin Luther against the Execrable Bull of Anti-christ. William Tyndale, the father of our old English Bible, identified the Pope as the Antichrist in his treatise, The Practice of Prelates. On September 9, 1560, Pastor Jean Louis Paschale of Calabria, just before he was burned alive in the presence of Pope Pius IV in Rome, turned to the pope and arraigned him as the enemy of Christ, the persecutor of his people, and the Antichrist of Scripture. Bishop Nicholas Ridley, who was burnt during the reign of Queen Mary in 1556, then declared: The See of Rome is the seat of Satan, and the bishop of the same, that maintained the abominations thereof, is Antichrist himself indeed. William Latimer, a Greek scholar who loved the Word of God during the time of Tyndale, said, Do you not know that the Pope is very Antichrist, whom the Scripture speaketh of? In his 1893 work titled, Union with Rome, Christopher Wordsworth, bishop of Lincoln in the Church of England stated the view which prevailed among Protestants at that time: -. . . we tremble at the sight, while we read the inscription, emblazoned in large letters, -Mystery, Babylon the Great,- written by the hand of St. John, guided by the Holy Spirit of God, on the forehead of the Church of Rome.

  • Driftwood

    *Sigh*
    I take it you are ‘staunch’ then UMH, and John O Connell ‘devout’. So it goes….

  • Mick Fealty

    UMH,

    Spare us the cut and paste, and poor sense of humour. Make your point, if you really have one, to the survey bods.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Why would I be ‘Stauch’ Drift? As is evident in my post there are many illustrious and learned men who don’t agree that the Church of Rome is ecumenical even before the reformation took place. So maybe they were ‘Staunch’ đŸ™‚

  • Driftwood

    Mick, what did you think of Fisk’s article? compared to the jargon led ‘academic’ link. Compare and contrast.

    ps I despise the pompous Jack Straw. Justicability indeed.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “Spare us the cut and paste, and poor sense of humour. Make your point,”

    but my point is in the cut and paste. “Play the ball not the man”

  • Driftwood

    UMH, presumably you never read the links I posted. Oh well.
    I’m sure the researchers of the report would admire your ‘faith-based synergy’ and ability to ‘engage in cross conscious negativity’ etc.

    ‘Illustrious and learned men’ Indeed.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]‘Illustrious and learned men’ Indeed. “[/i]

    Very true, they were illustrious and learned men, they were revered in their time and some are still revered today.

  • Driftwood

    Well, I suppose I’ve been guilty of kicking the ball in to the long grass in the past so i can’t really complain.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    I’ve talked to a load of people from other faiths and they say non of this reformist stuff ie- being saved, born again, bothers them as they’re strong in their pwn faith.

  • Driftwood

    posted on another thread UMH

    These sort of faiths?

    http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2009/04/tony-blair-faith-children

  • “relations between Catholic and Protestants, north and south”

    A bit of a shame that it’s set in an island of Ireland (Strand 2) context rather than reflecting the British, Irish and Other character of the 1998 Agreement.

  • Ecumenism seems to spend too much effort in a futile attempt to reconcile irreconcilable dogma, brush differences under the ecumenical carpet, and dream wistfully of a single ecclesiastical community that all Christians can join (and presumably should join, on pain of stern glares and pursed lips). Curiously this often seems to collapse to all falling in behind the Bishop of Rome.

    Might it be better to abandon the futile project of one church fits all (with a single authoritarian Magisterium, presumably), and concentrate on mutual understanding, dialogue, stewardship of the world’s resources, and justice for the oppressed (including Christians in non-christian countries), and other ways that believers might live out the values of the Kingdom of God in this world?

  • drumlins rock

    think the last post sorta makes sense,

    as for the survey left most of the 2nd half blank, what a load of crap, like i cant remember last weeks sermon never mind the ones before I was born, and what have sermons got to do with it anyways, makes you wonder what answers she has already obtained from it before it was launched, I’m sure the spin was put on it long before it was thought up.