Loyalists toss the dummy out, leave the threat lingering…

The UPRG in Derry and North Antrim have announced they no longer support the PSNI and political institutions (that’ll get the flag bandits excited!). They are blaming ‘demonisation’ and political apathy of social issues affecting protestants for their decision and make no reference to the recent loyalist decommissioning. Whilst the temptation to ridicule this stunt is great, it should be remembered that members of this organisation were involved in the sectarian murder of Kevin McDaid only a matter of weeks ago ( perhaps they preferred ACC Finlay’s initial assessment of a ‘maverick’ crowd being involved?) Amidst a campaign of intimidation of witnesses to the murder of Mr. McDaid and other sectarian attacks in Coleraine, a more accurate assessment of the loyalist organisation’s motives might conclude that this is about attempting to bully and bluster the case out of court.
UPDATE: As if on cue, three catholic churches in Ballymena have been attacked overnight.

  • Driftwood

    Unlike Joanne Mathers, I thought Kevin McDaid died of a heart attack.

  • [i]I thought Kevin McDaid died of a heart attack. [/i]

    You are an utterly pathetic, lonely old man.

  • Driftwood

    Pat
    Check out his (Kevin O Daid)cause of death. Official.
    Then check out Joanne Mathers.(and her lack of criminal record) Official.

    Guess who killed the latter? He’s well known at Stormont.

  • Ramsey

    What does the murder of the lady got to do with the UDA/UPRG making their announcement? Grasping at straws to defend the bully boys

  • [i]Check out his ([b]Kevin O Daid[/b])cause of death. Official.
    Then check out Joanne Mathers.(and her lack of criminal record) Official.[/i]

    Cunningham was blatantly pissed when he wrote that poisonous garbage.

    So Drifty, if, hypothetically speaking, your nephew were to be shot dead in Afghanistan by insurgents would you declare that he died as a result of, if it were to be the case for example, a severed artery or would you declare that he was the victim of enemy fire?

  • riddle me this

    The UPRG seems to be falling apart. I understand that their national committee no longer meet due to fallings out and that this statement is the start of Derry and North Antrim going it alone. This must have been sanctioned by their so called Brigadier so a split in the UDA is now on the cards. This in itself is potentially very worrying indeed.

  • Carnlough

    When did the UPRG ever support the PSNI?If trouble breaks out on the streets again like Whiterock 2006 are we going to see people being interviewed again saying “Protestants trusted the RUC,they dont’t trust the PSNI”

    Its about time loyalists moved on and stopped holding their communities back.Any suspected members of the UDA involved in the McDaid murder should be handed over to police.A likewise appeal also made from the main unionist parties as well.

  • Carnlough

    Also read the comment left on the utv page on the link.Big “j” claims the unionist community are being “harrassed” in Coleraine.He claims they are being treated like dirt and Protestant homes are being attacked in the Killowen area on a daily basis and the PSNI are doing nothing!

    You couldn’t make that garbage up!Here’s me thinking the only dirt in Coleraine was the dirt that murdered Kevin McDaid.

  • frustrated democrat

    We are witnessing the thugs and hoodlooms trying to exert whatever authority over areas that they can for carrying out of their nefarious activities. This is especially true in Coleraine, Ballymena and Bangor where they are erecting flags in a variety of types many nothing to do with the traditional Union Jack or Ulster flag and in opposition to the wishes of the Orange Order.

    The politicians and PSNI seem to want leave them to conciliation processes, and practically ignore the residents who are being intimidated by, for example, by having their houses attacked on several ocaasions in Ballymena.

    These people have to understand that their activities are not accepted and that they will be not be allowed to continue with their illegal actities and intimidation. They understand force and it should be applied to them, their flags should be removed and the areas flooded by the PSNI to ensure that their era is over.

    The people living under the thumb of or being intimidated by these people deserve our support and those of all of the elected politicians and also those tasked with maintaining law and order.

    Why would we support the transfer of policing and justice when the politicians are incapable of taking a strong stance on this even when they can do it without the responsibilty of having to enforce it?

  • Observer

    Driftwood’s comments should’nt really be a surprise. He’s only stating what others on this site would love to say, but are reluctant to give up the thin veneer of civilized behaviour.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Driftwood’s comments should’nt really be a surprise. He’s only stating what others on this site would love to say, but are reluctant to give up the thin veneer of civilized behaviour.

    All I can see in his comments is yet another unionist trying to gloss over loyalists murdering civilians by drawing comparisons with republicans. It’s probably a good thing the UDA have unionists to back them up, because they seem to be incapable of speaking effectively for themselves.

  • frustrated democrat

    should of course be hoodlums…too early

  • Cushy Glenn

    “It’s probably a good thing the UDA have unionists to back them up, because they seem to be incapable of speaking effectively for themselves.”

    Er…
    and if it’s true ( ignoring for a moment the fact that not one Unionist politician has supported this view) why is it a good thing again?
    Your remark seems predicated on the assumption that a hoodlum who is articulate is a superior construct to on who ain’t.
    Now I wonder to whom you could be nodding?

    Bizarrely I hold to the view that a hoodlum is a hoodlum , and no amount of BBC soft focus interviews or ministerial photocalls in primary schools will change that. Driftwood isn’t excusing one side- he’s just trying to drag the other side back down to the level whence they emerged and where they properly belong- along with the loyalist hoodlums, who because they don’t get elected don’t merit media fawning or makeovers.
    Not up to your usual standard CS

  • EyeOnTheNorth

    Driftwood,
    It was a heart attack alright. One brought on because a 50-something man was attacked and severley beaten by a mob of scum. See if your heart doesn’t pack in when your that age and getting beaten by a mob of cowards. You’re a disgrace to humankind and I’m ashamed to call myself a human knowing that you are one.
    Seriously, people like you should be sterilised.

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    “Unlike Joanne Mathers, I thought Kevin McDaid died of a heart attack.”

    So more dismissive talk again Driftwood.

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    …and all because the victim was a Catholic man murdered by Unionists/Loyalists thugs.

  • RepublicanStones

    Post #1 is an absolute disgrace. But also very enlighting as to the mentality of the poster.

  • Driftwood

    Gragoir etc
    This is what i thought would happen. This thread (and others)seeks to create the perception that Kevin McDaid was the only person murdered in the last 30 odd years.
    That certain politicians are shocked at all this as if they are ‘clean’. Politics of the last atrocity and all that. Only ‘Loyalists’ attack peole because of their politics or background.
    Sorry, but thousands of others died violently at the hands of ‘nationalists’. All this hand wringing condemnation and follow up political point scoring over 1 death wont erase that history.

  • RepublicanStones

    Post #1 is an absolute disgrace. But also very enlighting as to the mentality of the poster.

  • RepublicanStones

    enlightening*

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    “Only ‘Loyalists’ attack peole because of their politics or background.”

    Well Driftwood, the latest violent incidents in NI seem too prove so too.

    And while you appear to be very unaware of what you say but your words imply that another death just recently, in this case a Catholic man, makes no difference at all. That is a very odd mentality. Tis no wonder NI is the way it is.

  • Carnlough

    Whats the best way of getting ready for the twelfth and celebrating your culture?I know lets go out and attack Catholic chapels.Fuck sake how long can these scumbags go?

    The Orange Order should make a press release condemning attacks on all Catholic property,and make their members,bands and supporters do the same.They should make it explicity clear they are a Christian organisation and all acts of violence or sectarianism should be rooted out.Any of the bands which endorse or promote paramilitarism should not be used for future loyal order events.The field at the twelfth should be used for religious speeches not sectarian bear baiting or hate filled political rants.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]As if on cue, three catholic churches in Ballymena have been attacked overnight.”[/i]

    Are there many Nationalist law students in Ballymena?

  • Carnlough

    Ulsters my homeland-Would it hurt you to condemn these attacks?

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    Ah tis Ulster is my Disneyland morelike!

  • “I know lets go out and attack Catholic chapels.Fuck sake how long can these scumbags go?”

    Should they have waited until other scumbags attacked an Orange hall first, Carnlough? I should imagine that all of them are impervious to pleas for civilised behaviour and words of condemnation.

  • JR

    Driftwood,
    As you well know many people in this province have been beaten to death. Some died of a brain hemorrhage, others of internal bleeding, others of ruptured organs and others of heart attacks. All terrible ways to die. You are not the first from your community on this site to belittle this mans violent, sectarian death. I would ask you and others to reflect on your attitude to this incident. Reflect on this in light of everything you belittle when you be-little this act.

  • skullion

    Carnlough

    Would it hurt uhm to condemn these remarks?Well yes it would because he’s a moron.You should’ve realised that by now.

  • Billy

    Like most posters here, I’m disgusted with Driftwood’s comments. However, I’m hardly surprised and I don’t know why anyone else is.

    He has always been a UDA apologist (I have to admire his consistency if nothing else).

    He’s only running true to form.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Carnlough, they are nothing to do with me so I have nowt to condemn. Go get your community representatives or your MLA’s to condemn and damn, wouldn’t that me more appropriate.

  • nuttal

    The Orange Order should make a press release condemning attacks on all Catholic property,and make their members,bands and supporters do the same.

    How many press releases do you want exactly?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    There was news in the Ballymena press a while back that a band shouted rude gestures as mass worshipers were entering the chapel in Harryville. Pride of the Maine band issued an immediate apology when they heard about it, but after investigating more about it, it was revealed a rumour to heighten tension and the papers run with it.

    If we condemn everything we read in the papers we’d be gullible fools.

  • Driftwood

    JR, I was seeking to expose the hypocrisy of certain posters highlighting 1 mans violent death- probably murder- for political point scoring, when their own elected representatives were involved in violence. I don’t know if the perpretrators against Kevin McDaid were UDA scumbags or just plain scumbags – I’ll go with ACC Finlay- but Chris Donnelly and others post constant threads on the attack to score cheap points. he couldn’t believe his luck about the church attacks.
    I don’t intend to respond to ‘Billy’ or his absurd comment. I loathe the UDA and all other terror groups.

  • Séimí

    ‘I was seeking to expose the hypocrisy of certain posters highlighting 1 mans violent death- probably murder’

    PROBABLY murder???? The man was kicked until his heart gave out. Even you should be able to see that this was murder Driftwood….

  • Keep digging that hole Drifty! Comedy gold it is!

    And if you wish to continue to insult our collective intelligence by claiming that many contributors to this site “create the perception that Kevin McDaid was the only person murdered in the last 30 odd years” then go right ahead (and well done you for getting the spelling right this time, seriously well done, gold star) – however, it does beg the question as to why an individual of your considerable intellect would wish to continue to engage with such unintelligent beings. Or, what would seem more likely, maybe the recent considerable surge in sectarian attacks on Catholics is a little bit embarrassing for your good self and this is but one means which you utilise to cope and come to terms with such inconvenient truths?

    P.S. why don’t you have a go at answering the question posed at the end of post 5 on page 1 of this thread?

  • I like crap scottish bands

    [i]I was seeking to expose the hypocrisy of certain posters highlighting 1 mans violent death- probably murder…. [Chris Donnelly] couldn’t believe his luck about the church attacks.[/i]

    Very, very cheap wind-up merchant. Best to ignore and let him stew in his own hate-filled wet dreams.

  • ‘Whilst the temptation to ridicule this stunt is great, it should be remembered’, Chris, that you are an apologist for SF, the PRM’s political wing. Perhaps apologists don’t do irony …

  • Further BBC update:

    Five Catholic churches in the Ballymena area have been damaged in sectarian attacks.

    Paint was thrown at churches on Crebilly Road, Larne Road, Cullybackey and Portglenone.

    A church and headstones on the Portglenone Road in Ahoghill were also targeted. The attacks took place early on Thursday morning.

    Elsewhere, a car was driven into the grounds of a GAA club in the Ahoghill area and set on fire.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Where’s the Nationalist law students?

  • Séimí

    ‘Where’s the Nationalist law students?’

    What are you talking about?

  • EyeOnTheNorth

    Driftwood,
    Your Whattaboutery is incredible…and dangerous.
    If you say that the murder of McDaid…which it was( your ‘probably’ quote was a fucking disgrace), cannot be condemned, because republicans killed so-and-so, then I could say that the murder of so-and-so cannot be condemned because of the murder of so-and-so-and-so……you see how stupid that is?
    From now on muders or incidents should be condemned fully and without mentioning other matters (Greg Campbell take note).
    It’s the only way that each murder or incident gets the full condemnation they deserve.
    If you can’t understand this then it proves what most of us here all know – that you believe in your rotten black heart that Kevin McDaid’s murder isn’t that big a deal, because he was a ‘taig’, and your background has taught you to view Taigs as sub-human, and not equal to Protestants, therefore their deaths aren’t that important.
    Or maybe you also think that because he could have been protesting to the flying of a rag from a lamppost that he deserved it because he wasn’t showing respect to the Union Jack, and was a traitor or rebel or whatever.
    Admit that you believe this, then book yourself into a Psychiatric unit because the collective social Narcicism of some loyalists is more of a mental illness than a political belief.
    Catholics are simply people too, my bigoted friend. Underneath they have the same flesh and blood as you.

  • dub

    Driftwood is an outstanding example of a “moderate” unionist who loudly supports UCUNF actually being a revolting bigot.

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘they are nothing to do with me so I have nowt to condemn.’

    There it is folks (as if we needed it) UMH does NOT condemn attacks on catholic places of worship.

    Drift it seems over the last year or so you have gone from being a reasonable and lucid unionist poster into something more akin to UMH – Im pretty sure im not the only one who has noticed. What happened?

  • Carnlough

    Nuttal-When exactly has the orange order issued a statement regarding its total condemnation on behalf of ALL its members,bands and supporters?
    Do you remember a moron called Dawson Bailie?

  • Paul

    RS

    Actually I have noticed quite a few unionist posters sliding down the scale from reasonably inteligent debaters to simple knee jerk loyalists

    Turgon and Nevin spring to mind immediately

  • It’s going to be a very interesting weekend, although this could be the calm before the storm given that next year’s “marching season” will probably take place sans Stormont and in a wonderful political vacuum.

  • Driftwood

    Eye on the north, I see no difference between catholics or protestants, all humans mammals etc.
    The courts will decide on Kevin McDaids murder, at least his family will see the pepetrators in court. Something denied to many people,including Mathers, because the perpetrators are now in government at Stormont.
    dub Exposing double standards doesn’t make one a bigot, but believe what you want.
    RS,Most threads I tend to take light heartedly,sometimes i just let myself get annoyed.
    On reflection, Post 1 was wrong, but I wrote it and some other clumsily worded others.
    Posters are entitled to call me up on them, live and learn.

  • Drifty, if, hypothetically speaking, your nephew were to be shot dead in Afghanistan by insurgents would you declare that he died as a result of, if it were to be the case for example, a severed artery or would you declare that he was the victim of enemy fire?

  • EyeOnTheNorth

    Driftwood,

    What ‘double standards’ are you exposing? That republicans murdered people??
    The entire world knows that they did, and they all know it was vile, evil and wrong to kill anyone in the name of any political cause on this island.
    Do you think you’re exposing double standards by saying that people have no right to be disgusted that an innocent man was murdered by a mob of slavering sectarian scum…..because the IRA killed people?
    Wise up. Protestants and Unionists should be just as disgusted as Catholics/Nationalists about the McDaid murder. Just because this man was from the ‘other team’ (in your eyes, not mine) doesn’t mean you can’t be revolted…in fact, you could argue that you should be more revolted, because the murdering animals claim to be ‘loyalists’ and somehow doing the United Kingdom a favour by kicking men to death.
    Yes, the IRA murders you are bringing up are wrong….but why are you bringing them up at all? Do you think too much grieving is being wasted on uppity fenians who refused to stay in their place while bigoted triumphalism was being demonstrated, and that we must remember that decades old murders of protestants are much more deserving of society’s grief?
    Both are deserving of grief, but Kevin McDaid has barely been buried before you are saying, ‘Whattabout!!!’. Show some fucking respect for your fellow man you gormless, sectarian bigot.

  • Driftwood

    pat
    Enemy fire

  • Greenflag

    Paul,

    ‘Actually I have noticed quite a few unionist posters sliding down the scale from reasonably intelligent debaters to simple knee jerk loyalists’

    There is a direct correlation between the sliding phenomenon mentioned above and the approach of the 12th July .

    Post the 12th Unionists become ‘human ‘ again 🙂
    This phenomenon is not just a ‘unionist ‘ trait . Many many more around the world become ‘knee jerk ‘ Irish come 17th March . The main difference between the tow being that the 12th is an exclusive celebration of one tribe as opposed to the other – whereas the 17th March is much more inclusive not just in Ireland but across the world . Northern Ireland is probably the last remaining piece of territory on the planet where ‘Protestants ‘ celebrate their religion by having Catholic like processions through the streets and neighbourhoods .

    For those who are celebrating their protestantism and faith (although I could never share it in a million years ) let’s wish them a peaceful and violence free day . For those who are coat tailing bigotry and sectarian orangeist triumphalism lets wish them a cloudy forecast and muddy fields and week long hangovers 😉

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Driftwood,

    Glad to see #22. I was a bit worried there. Seemed completely out of character.

    Everyone else,

    Should Driftwood not now be applauded for admitting he was wrong or at least cut a bit of slack? Perhaps others should follow?

  • [i] pat
    Enemy fire[/i]
    Posted by Driftwood on Jul 09, 2009 @ 04:11 PM

    OK. So was Kevin McDaid the victim of beating by a loyalist mob or a heart attack?

  • Driftwood

    pat
    The former

    Ill thought 1st post, then attempted to dig.

  • Fair play to you Drifty, and all the best to your nephew

  • EyeOnTheNorth

    Well I never…
    There’s hope for this patch of dirt yet. Is this a Slugger first?

  • OC

    Posted by Greenflag on Jul 09, 2009 @ 04:12 PM, quo he:

    “The main difference between the tow being that the 12th is an exclusive celebration of one tribe as opposed to the other – whereas the 17th March is much more inclusive not just in Ireland but across the world .”

    Not in NYC, where the St Patrick Parade is an exclusively RC event. Complete with IRA hangers-on, drink-till-ya-puke punks and their skanky girlfriends.

    In many locales, there are two parades: the official RC procession, and the “Irish” circus parade, complete with boozing, and raucous behaviour, much like the March 17 Roman pagan Liberalia festival for Liber Pater (ancient god of fertility and wine) and his consort Libera, celebrating “the maturation of young boys to manhood” with “sacrifices, processions, ribald and gauche songs”. A disgrace to all things Irish.

  • fionn

    ‘I was seeking to expose the hypocrisy of certain posters’

    you were the first poster!

    ‘Actually I have noticed quite a few unionist posters sliding down the scale from reasonably intelligent debaters to simple knee jerk loyalists’

    at first I was impressed that Unionists were so reasonable, at length I came to wonder if it had been an act

  • OC

    Posted by EyeOnTheNorth on Jul 09, 2009 @ 02:42 PM, quo he:

    “Your Whattaboutery is incredible…and dangerous.”

    Posted by EyeOnTheNorth on Jul 09, 2009 @ 04:10 PM, quo he:

    “Kevin McDaid has barely been buried before you are saying, ‘Whattabout!!!’”

    Maybe you can explain to “Rebiya Kadeer, the President of the World Uighur Congress, the most significant Uighur leader, either in China or abroad, and a hate figure for the Chinese government” the intricacies of “whataboutary”, because when asked, “You claim that the demonstration was peaceful, however we have a lot of evidence which you can’t deny, that the Uighurs killed Han Chinese. What is your response?” she replied, “When 800 Uighurs were butchered by 10 000 Chinese in Guangdong the police did nothing, and didn’t save the Uighurs.” Well, OK then. Why didn’t you say so?

  • Greenflag

    ‘Not in NYC, where the St Patrick Parade is an exclusively RC event.’

    So all those African American policemen are RC ‘s and not Baptists ? And all those ethnic minorities marching are RC’s ? Pull the other one ?

    ‘ A disgrace to all things Irish’

    What’s a disgrace ? People making eejits of themselves ? Come on now surely once a year to celebrate the arrival of spring is reasonable ? Even the Germans let down their hair at Carneval.
    I don’t object to Orangemen getting pissed on the 12th or having a good time . It’s just when they go berserk and attack any or all papists who get in their way is the what I object to . Can’t blame a chap for being proud he’s protestant and British in Ireland can you ? Why would anyone want to ?
    You can’t be a stiff tight arsed prude all your life . No need to get pissed as a fart mind you but it’s a long winter – you have one life – this life is not a dress rehearsal for part 2 so why not have some fun now and then ?. You’ll be dead long enough or are you planning to pull that third day rising trick again ? They’ll never believe you these days . Too much medical technology etc .

    Thanks for the info on Liber Pater and his consort Libera . Now I know why Clement Freud joined the Liberals . He must have tired of the dog food served up by the Tories and Labour ;)?

  • greenflag

    Driftwood ,

    ‘sometimes i just let myself get annoyed’

    It’s the human condition -our fellow mammals don’t possess the brain power to reflect very much on their response to being annoyed . Thus they respond to the impulses of the limbic system and lash out 😉 Perhaps you were not in mammalian mode and had switched off the sapiens part as well , and regressed to the reptilian ‘limbic ‘ stem ;)?. As you say later best leave it to the Police to find the guilty .

    I’m sure everybody on Slugger hopes your nephew makes it through in Afghanistan regardless of previous historical precedents of Anglo American interference in Iran , Iraq or indeed Afghanistan .

    I don’t have a problem with the Americans and British defeating the Taliban if they can. The question is the cost and whether or not it’s now militarily feasible or politically possible ? It might have been a few years back when they first went in but since then the focus of events moved elsewhere to a much more attracive proposition 🙁

    The Taliban are a remnant of the past and under their control Afghanistan will always remain poor and backward and women will remain as chattels.

    Perhaps the afghans will have to be left to learn the ‘hard way’ that absolute rule by Allah’s self appointed mullahs is one certain way to deliver hell on earth 🙁

  • RepublicanStones

    Congal Claen on Jul 09, 2009 @ 04:14 PM – agree….but im not going to make a habit of it Congal 😉

  • Comrade Stalin

    Cushy:

    “It’s probably a good thing the UDA have unionists to back them up, because they seem to be incapable of speaking effectively for themselves.”

    Er…
    and if it’s true ( ignoring for a moment the fact that not one Unionist politician has supported this view)

    The first unionist politician who reacted to the McDaid murder was Adrian McQuillan, who said that the killing was the result of provocation. Why did he feel the need to provide an explanation for a murder ?

    why is it a good thing again?

    It’s a good thing for the UDA.

    Your remark seems predicated on the assumption that a hoodlum who is articulate is a superior construct to on who ain’t.

    No, just that life would be a lot easier if the UUP and DUP did not feel the need to act as the de-facto political wing for loyalist paramilitarism.

  • hotdogx

    I hate to say it guys but this thread like so many others on slugger is tit for tat, like two kids fighting in the back of the car, she took my bear he broke my doll etc.

    As i see it if Ireland stays divided its set to continue. Only under a unitary Irish state can all Irish people of all backgrounds Planter and Gael finally resolve their differences and move on. An Irish solution to an Irish problem. of course only if the majority wish it in a referendum and thats fine by me.

    For me Unionists are Irish people too whether they have come to terms with that fact yet or not! When all Irish people of all types rule themselves only then will this conflict finally be put to rest. Great wrongs were done to unionists supposedly for the cause of a UI. They now see the Irish flag as an emblem for the IRA.
    Republicanism needs its original image restored and this will take time, a generation maybe.

    On the other side a British state can never legislate properly for all the Irish people we have had 70 years of this. Unionists will need time to recover. Being a unionist for me as i can see it is all about fear, fear of a UI fear that they might be treated as they treated others, fear of economic issues. Fear above all of not being top dog.
    But Protestants are quite happy in the republic and this should serve as an example, religion is not an issue.Protestants from the republic don’t understand prods from the north.
    People don’t vote SF not many like in NI.
    But the IRA did so much damage that a UI has been delayed much further unfortunately. And anyway this is why a new party is needed SF can not bring about a UI

    So for f**k sake instead of petty point scoring post something constructive! Everybody should find it within themselves to condemn all attacks, its not hard, imagine it was your friends or your family. People should not bring up attacks on their community to justify attacks on the other or else we are right back where we started!

  • Comrade Stalin

    hotdog, sheesh. Why didn’t you write this 30 years ago ? Decades of conflict and killing could have been avoided if the unionists had only paused for a few seconds to contemplate the simple but perfect rationality of your view that it is they who have been wrong all along and they just need to accept it.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    OC: “Not in NYC, where the St Patrick Parade is an exclusively RC event. Complete with IRA hangers-on, drink-till-ya-puke punks and their skanky girlfriends.”

    Whilst the parade is organized by the Hibernians, giving the parade some RC mores — their on-going pissing contest with ILGO, f’r’instance — the parade is not “exclusively RC” event.

    And swap out “IRA” for “Loyalist” and you’ve described any number of OO events.

  • Greenflag

    Comrade Stalin,

    ‘hotdog, sheesh. Why didn’t you write this 30 years ago ?’

    Would’nt have mattered CS . Nobody was listening then either and quite a few are not listening now. Some people have to learn the hard way and many of them don’t even learn the hard way 🙁
    This ‘issue’ has gone on far too long to be healthy for people on either side of the border but particularly for those in NI.

    Hotdog’s ‘analysis ‘ can of course be turned right around from a different perspective i.e
    A ‘reasonable ‘ Unionist might take the following view ?

    ‘For me Irish people are British too , whether they have come to terms with that fact yet or not! When all Irish people of all types are ruled from Westminster only then will this conflict finally be put to rest. Great wrongs were done to the Irish in the past supposedly for the cause of a United Kingdom and Empire . Many Irish still see the Union Jack an emblem for British imperialism .

    Ireland needs its original image as part of the British Isles restored and this will take time, a generation or two maybe.

    On the other side an Irish State only can never legislate properly for all the people on this divided island .We have had several centuries of history which proves this sad fact . Irish people will need time to recover from their illusions of ‘sovereignty, self government and independence . Being Irish is all about fear, fear of the UK , fear that they might be dragooned as cannon fodder for the next war , fear of economic discrimination, fear of becoming an economic backwater with zero investment potential . They’d rather not be just Sunderland or Middlesborough or North Wales. Fear above all of being closed out of policy making decisions.
    English and Scottish and Welsh (if there are any ?)however are quite happy in the UK and this should serve as an example to the Irish . Religion is not really an issue for Britons except for the monarchical succession . Catholics from the Irish Republic don’t understand British Catholics.

    But the UK did so much damage in Ireland in the past that a full reunion will have to be delayed further unfortunately. This is why a new party is needed . The Unionist parties themselves cannot bring about a fully restored United Kingdom which would include all 4 countries .

    A fair Repartition of NI is a much better solution . A 30 county Republic can function just as well if not better than a 26 county one . At least for another century or so by which time ‘posterity ‘ may have more serious issues to address ?

  • “Nevin spring to mind”

    Paul, I look forward to some examples of these ‘knee-jerk’ reactions that you find so disturbing. Am I being too hard on SF apologists or on Wee Jeffrey? 😉

  • GavBelfast

    Enjoyable post, HogDogX!

    😉

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    Anyone see Dan Snow’s programme on BBC2 over the past couple of nights about how Irish monks brought Christianity and civilisation to pagan Anglo-Saxon and Pictish Britain.

    One programme for ‘Ulster is my homeland’ and the likes to watch, given their appaling understanding of Irish history.

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    BTW, more of a cultural importance to these islands…Dan Snow’s “How the Celts Saved Britain”….

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/5369864/Dan-Snow-How-Britain-nearly-became-the-Irish-Isles.html

  • west1

    For me Unionists are Irish people too whether they have come to terms with that fact yet or not!

    with all due respect hotdogx,while you are entitled to your opinon,it’s wrong.the term ‘Irish’ denotes either or both of two seperate things,ethnicity(ie ‘stock’ or ‘descent’)and citizenship(the state of which you are a citizen).for example a kurd in turkey would be ethnically kurdish but a citizen of turkey.a german turk would be ethnically a turk and a citizen of germany.examples of this can be found all around the globe.for me personally i am of ulster-british ethnicity(of scottish descent) and a citizen of the united kingdom.on neither count am i irish.you on the other hand(if im not jumping to conclusions) are both ethnically irish as well as an irish citizen.i have no desire to pretend im irish any more than you would wish to be british.it’s not that we unionists are blind to our irishness,its just simply that we are not irish in any way,and i dont see why we should see ourselves as such.irish culture means zilch to me,pleasant as i find some aspects of it.

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    “personally i am of ulster-british ethnicity(of scottish descent) and a citizen of the united kingdom.on neither count am i irish…..i have no desire to pretend im irish any more than you would wish to be british.it’s not that we unionists are blind to our irishness,its just simply that we are not irish in any way,and i dont see why we should see ourselves as such.irish culture means zilch to me,pleasant as i find some aspects of it.

    Very well surmised there West1.

    Indeed, I always refer to such folk as yourself here in Ireland as BRITISH and only BRITISH, given your history and how you view yourselves.

    I do wish Irish Nationalists would stop refering to such British folk as Irish.

    Gréagóir O Frainclín

  • west1

    ”Very well surmised there West1”

    thank you Gragoir

    ”Indeed, I always refer to such folk as yourself here in Ireland as BRITISH and only BRITISH, given your history and how you view yourselves.”

    nice one.