2 DUP councillors jump ship tonight…

Yep, there’s an election on… so it’s time for the compulsory defection stories… Councillor Harry Greenaway (Dungannon & South Tyrone) is joining the UUP. Councillor Deirdre Nelson (Ballymena) is joining the Conservatives. Both (you will not be surprised to hear) are endorsing Jim Nicholson 1. First blood to the new force!

  • New Blue

    Sammy

    You are very aware of Camerons stance on Northern Ireland, GFA has given you the vehicle to make a UI, it’s up to you to make that happen (if that is possible), in the meantime let’s try and move away from the ‘it’s my ball’ game and try and help the thousands of kids living in poverty, the 30,000+ households on the housing waiting lists, the tens of thousands of people being made unemployed or facing reduced working hours.

    If Northern Ireland decides it wants a UI then I will support that decision, in the meantime can you support that we are currently a part of the UK and help us get on with the real job?

    And I’ll lay you odds now that we get as good if not better Conservative support for the Westminster elections as we have had for this one.

  • New Blue

    What the ****, Observer and Nemo

    What excuses are you going to give for the next batch of ‘defectors’ (i’m hearing at least four at the moment), are they all ‘selfish bad people’ as well.

    Face it DUP is in meltdown, the TUV have taken your hardline support and you don’t play moderate very well, do you?

  • frustrated democrat

    what the ****?

    I think your sources (if they exist) are very very suspect try checking them all again.

  • what the ****?

    New Blue,
    My sources are fine…

    Does this look like an unhappy woman to you?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dupphotos/3398746518/

  • nemo

    new blue,

    far be it from me, with your vast experience of watching a party in meltodown, to question you. i’ll just let you wait til this time next week when you open the newsletter, see the results, and see ucunf is already dead in the water.

  • danielmoran

    seceder… msg 15. i think wee jeffrey is conceited enough to think he would get away with jumping back, but would the uup have him after all the trouble he caused. for all we hear from him these days, he might as well be locked in the store room a la folks on the hill.
    it looks like nelson and greenaway have seen the private polling and realised the game’s up with the duppers.

  • fin

    I’d say Oxford is actually more like Southern Ireland its got a few GAA clubs yet I’ve never heard of Davy trying to get its members thrown out of the local Tesco’s.

    Like the South it has normal politics.

    Like the south it hasn’t got Orange halls everywhere.

    Like the South people in Oxon don’t obsess about flying flags

    And although its many years since I’ve seen it the pubs in Oxon use to sell Harp Larger on draught (….probably the worst larger in the world)

    All in all if you want your wee village to be comparable to one in Oxford your best bet is to be more Southern

    With regards going to Oxford for a holiday, I suppose foreigners would like it but British people would get bored very quickly, gee its basically holidaying in Thames Valley, hardly the thing you go back to work and announce with a straight face, ah the colonials so enamoured with all things English.

  • what the ****?

    danielmoran
    “it looks like nelson and greenaway have seen the private polling and realised the game’s up with the duppers”

    For supposedly “private” polling it seems the world and his wife have managed to see it!

    Listen to Sammy Morse and his rather technical explanation for why Nelson has jumped. Greenaway is even more obvious (and the idea that someone who never spoke in a Council meeting reads polling data is frankly hilarious).

    We’ve less than a week until the real and very very public polling data will be presented to the world. I suspect that Cllr Nelson’s egotrip won’t have made a tsunami like impact upon Jimmy Nic’s rather lackluster campaign.

  • New Blue

    Nemo

    you forgot to comment on the next raft of ‘disenfranchised’ elected representatives preparing to leave the DUP.

    Or did you?

  • Mack

    Nelson is a poor loser and the Torries will find out that she has joined them for the glory not for party affiliation.

    Sam Greenaway is a headbin. What will his wife think now both were DUP, she defected to the TUV and he’s now joined the UUP what a family dinner conversation that will be.

    These people should resign their seats and see if the people support their positions.

  • what the ****?

    New Blue,
    I’d prefer to concentrate on the behind the scenes briefings which are already taking place to “explain” the UCUNF election result…

    Why Jimmy Nic was a poor candidate etc etc and much hand wringing already going on.

    Some of the UCUNF children on here need to calm down and give their fingers a rest. Go and speak to a few people in the real world and that will give you all the ‘private polling’ you need.

    Mind you – given that Mrs Nelson is a Tory Cllr and not a UUP one (odd distinction these days) that will mean she’ll be standing against UUP cllrs at the next election (assuming she gets selected – they’d better select her, we know what happens when she doesn’t get the nod)….

  • what the ****?

    Who the hell was she canvassing for this day?

    http://twitter.com/deirdrenelson/status/1939196521

    She was obviously lying to people on the doors at that time or she’s lying to them now.

    Wonder which she prefers….

  • New Blue

    what the ****

    I have some great pics of Donaldson, want to see them?

    will it make any difference?

    Probably not.

    And on your note about briefings, will Diane be blamed for DUPpers loosing 70k+ first preference votes or will this be spun as ‘positive change’ for the party that used to top the poll?

  • Seceder

    What the **** are you suggesting that Wee jeff, aloof Arlene and Norah no mates were supporting the UUP in the 2003 Assembly elections – when they – note they – ran under the UUP banner etc etc.

    Clearly Ms Nelson was bidding her time and 3 days before an election was her time.

    Much more honourable that the gang of three who waited to be elected as UUP members and within a few weeks had jumped ship.

    But as said before, I’d take bets Wee Jeff will do a Winston – he is fading fast in the DUP joined at the hip to bomber Kelly and playing 2nd, 3rd or 4th fiddle to the real DUP – the dynasties!

    I guarantee you if David Cameron called Wee Jeff on the phone today, he’d be signed up before the polls open on Thursday.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Richard James

    re. No Tory strategic interest in Norn Iron

    Oh Dear, I think you need to be able to distinguish the difference between what a party says when they are the elected government and what they say when they are TRYING to get elected.

    But either way what the Tories said about strategic interest is now reflected in the “Ourselves Alone” part of the constitution of Norn Iron (GFA) i.e. it is for the people of Ireland alone to decide its future. The later stuff is simply opposition jibber-jabber and PoshBoyDC cant change that without breaching the principle of consent – that would be the NEW principle of consent that was inserted in the GFA in return for the fairly wothless articles 2 and 3.

    New Blue

    re.the UK v UI

    I think that is a common misconception particlualry amongst Tories that everything is simply about money – hence the moat (sorry I just love that story so much I have to keep mentioning it) and the duck ponds etc which may have its origins from plundering the globe for centuries.

    We Irish (and I am of course including all my good Unionist friends in this) often think there is more to it than that and as your party kindly admitted – well after a sustained insurgency – that they have no strategic interest in this part of our country we will take them at their word (as in the signed treaty word) and get on with it.

    Regarding the 2 runaways – would BNP members also gain access that easily? Are there any recuits from the BNP? or is recruiting from deply sectarian/racially intolerant parties a Norn Iron only policy?

  • SM

    what the ****?

    Are you the replacement nickname for ?? who seems to have disappeared back to the DUP press office? Maybe you can tell us if you are one person or just whoever happens to be on duty? Also is any of your wage paid out of taxpayer-funded expenses at all?

  • Seceder

    We all know that the DUP are a nasty group of individuals – but read their response to these two leaving.

    nasty, nasty, nasty

    But they say – throw a stick into a pack of dogs the one that squeals is the one you hit – and boy have they been hit!

  • what the ****?

    New Blue,
    There are plenty of pics of Donaldson within the UUP – there weren’t too many of him happily endorsing Trimble as a candidate however only a few weeks before he left to join the DUP.

    He also wasn’t out canvassing for Trimble only days before leaving. Raises some questions doesn’t it when you’re out asking people to vote for one candidate one week and the very next week you’re asking people to vote for a different candidate.

    I note you haven’t denied the fact that the UCUNFers are already preparing their excuses for Nicholson’s performance. All the bluff and bluster about private polls is great stuff 2 days before an election and amongst the inner circle of nerds who happen to inhabit sluggerotooleworld.

    It doesn’t cut any ice in the real world even now, and it only makes you look even more stupid once the real results are published.

  • SM

    Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Parties recruit people not other parties. Not all DUP members are flat-earth sectarian fundementalistas, and if folk from the sensible wing of the DUP wish to jump then let them.

  • Seceder

    What the ****?

    No Wee Jeffrey had enough pics of him carrying Trimble’s bags during the 1998 talks and at Weston Park etc to worry about election pics, but when he saw his career slip away with the Assembly result in 2003, off he went and followed the power.

    And as the power moves from the DUPs, so will Wee jefffrey. I’m sure he’s eying up his next move already.

    Who’ll give me odds on Wee jeffrey joing the Conservatives before the next election?

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    SM,

    I understand the policy in relation to the DUP I was enquiring about the BNP – have they got a ‘sensible’ wing? would it be ok for BNP members to join the Tories?

  • SM

    Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    No idea! From what I have read in the national press the BNP’s electoral successes in recent years have been by playing down the race issue and pushing hard on very local issues in areas ignored by Labour. That may have attracted some sensible folk or it may not, I have no idea. Given that BNP are a far-left party mainly successful in Labour heartlands I doubt it’ll be an issue that the Conservatives in England will have to deal with. I suspect there would be very heavy vetting if someone wanted to make the jump, and it might be that even past association with the BNP would be considered a bar but I’m not making the decision so it’s pure conjecture.

    Suffice to say that the BNP’s party constitution is racist and I don’t want them to get any votes, and nor does the Conservative Party.

  • Rory Carr

    Look it’s all very well you lot coming over to Oxford for a little holiday and it’s all very nice and I’m sure you’ll have a very nice time so long as you behave yourselves and keep a low profile but please, please do not expect anyone this side of the pond to return the compliment.

    No amount of advertising Sunny-Saintfield-by-the-Sea (Newcastle, Ardglass less than an hour away) would ever induce anyone to visit, or if it did, would only ensure they never returned. Saintfield is renowned only as that mean little eyesore one is obliged to pass through on the way from Belfast to Downpatrick. Horrible place, it would give Ballymena a good name.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    SM,

    “I suspect there would be very heavy vetting if someone wanted to make the jump”

    Yes. I suspect so myself – do we think the 2 runaways were subjected to “heavy vetting”?

    In case there is no formal vetting in place can I suggest a few easy questions along the lines of:

    Why should we let you join the Tory party when you have been a member of a party that shares very few of values that are crucial to convincing the electorate in Britian and Northern Ireland that we are a tolerant, modern party that wants absolutely nothing to do with racial and religious intolerance and is passionate about issues such as global warming?

    Can you explain how someone, like yourself, who claims to share the values of the modern Tory party could have decided to join the DUP ?

  • New Blue

    What the ****

    2 Questions

    1: how will you explain the 4 elected representatives who are jumping ship from DUP next week?

    2: how will your party explain a drop of 70,000 in your first preference votes?

    I already have a bet on with Sammy Morse that Jim will poll 17%. What percentage are you prepared to bet that the DUP will get?

  • slug

    I got my university education in Oxford and still split my time between Oxford-NI. Both places are wonderful. NI has scenery, rugged hills, and uncrowded coastline Oxfordians would dream of, and warm friendly people. Oxford has beautiful buildings and rolling countryside and a great university and lots of economic opportunities.

  • New Blue

    Sammy

    If you believe that the moves took place ‘overnight’ then you surprise me.

    The two individuals who have left the DUP are both forward thinking positive individuals who will fit very well with the ethos that this partnership is working towards.

    The involvement of the Conservative party will only grow throughout Northern Ireland, we are 1/4 of the UK for the forseeable future and as such deserve to have access to the parties that stand for the whole of the UK.

    Religion and nationality need to besidelined in Northern Ireland and the commitment shown to opening political processes to every citizen in the UK by Cameron and the Conservative party is only to be welcomed.

    Unless you really prefer the DUP / Sinn Fein politics 101 we get at the moment.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    New Blue,

    re. “Religion and nationality need to besidelined in Northern Ireland ”

    Really? then why did PoshBoyDC say he was passionate about the Union? You are tripping over your rhetoric.

    re. “The two individuals who have left the DUP are both forward thinking positive individuals ”

    You what? Then why the feck did they join the DUP? One of them would still be in that deeply sectarian party representing them in Europe if her plans had unfolded. You and the Tory party must have very, very low standards as to what constitutes forward thinking.

  • Cushy Glenn

    Did I hear correct that Jim “Crazy Horse” Fitzpatrick is/has jumped ship from HMS Punt?

  • loki

    my goodness, aren’t the DUP trolls wound up. Mrs Nelson must have been quite a catch for Tories 😉

  • frustrated democrat

    Interesting to see Paisley Junior’s comments on the BBC that Deidre Nelson could have had a good career in the DUP. (see my 11:22 last night about groomimg)It underlines her reasons for leaving being a drift back to sectarianism and creates a clear split in the DUP between the Paisleys and the rest of the party.

    I have asked several times who is running the DUP now North Antrim or East Belfast? No one in the DUP has answered, nor I suspect will they. Maybe that is since the Paisley wing of the party is closer to the CU’s than they are to their own right wing…another defection perhaps PJ himself would put the cat amongst the pigeons.

  • Richard James

    “Oh Dear, I think you need to be able to distinguish the difference between what a party says when they are the elected government and what they say when they are TRYING to get elected.”

    What Cameron says about NI being part of the Union won’t make one iota of difference to the crushing defeat he’s going to inflict on Labour.

    You could say he has no strategic or selfish interest in UCUNF. I’m sure the wailing and gnashing of slugger’s Nationalists will confirm this in time.

    “But either way what the Tories said about strategic interest is now reflected in the “Ourselves Alone” part of the constitution of Norn Iron (GFA) i.e. it is for the people of Ireland alone to decide its future. The later stuff is simply opposition jibber-jabber and PoshBoyDC cant change that without breaching the principle of consent – that would be the NEW principle of consent that was inserted in the GFA in return for the fairly wothless articles 2 and 3.”

    Go read your Belfast Agreement again Sammy.

    The ‘people of Ireland’ have no say as a ‘national unit’ on a united Ireland. The principle of consent applies solely to to our ‘artificial entity’ with it’s ‘manufactured inbuilt Unionist majority’.

    We traded that for some fairly worthless promises about an Irish Language Act :o)

  • Erasmus

    Oh Dear, I think you need to be able to distinguish the difference between what a party says when they are the elected government and what they say when they are TRYING to get elected.

    But either way what the Tories said about strategic interest is now reflected in the “Ourselves Alone” part of the constitution of Norn Iron (GFA) i.e. it is for the people of Ireland alone to decide its future.

    Please note also that historically it has been the Conservatives who have generally delivered anything substantial for Irish nationalists: the Treaty Ports in the thirties, the suspension of the unionist-dominated Stormont in the seventies, Sunningdale, the AIA in 1985.
    If Cameron gets elected realpolitik will kick in: he will have more reason to keep on the right side of another EU member state (the ROI) than a handful of unionist MPs.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Richard,

    re. reading the GFA

    The ‘people of Ireland’ have no say as a ‘national unit’ on a united Ireland. The principle of consent applies solely to to our ‘artificial entity’ with it’s ‘manufactured inbuilt Unionist majority’.

    see below.

    recognise that it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a united Ireland, if that is their wish, accepting that this right must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland

  • frustrated democrat

    from the News Letter

    In a fierce attack, the DUP dismissed her as a “political reject whose prospects in the party had been curtailed for a number of reasons over the last few years”.

    “In light of her inability to attract support within the party it has been widely known for sometime that she was seeking position with another party.”

    Compare this to what Paisley Junior said on the BBC News about her giving up a good future in the DUP.

    The question remains who speaks for the DUP and which version is correct?

    I know which one I believe.

  • Richard James

    Which Sammy, is another way of saying the Unionist veto is alive and well. The Irish people will not be voting as a unit. A majority of Irish people could be favour of unification but if the manufactured Unionist entity doesn’t agree then 32 county leprechauns republic is a no go :o)

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Which Richard disproves your “The ‘people of Ireland’ have no say as a ‘national unit’ on a united Ireland.” You obviously hadnt read the agreement yourself.

    It also lets us know that Britian considers Norn Iron’s constitutional future to be decide by us – the Irish, rather than by themselves – which captures the Britain’s declared position that they have no strategic interest in our country.