Jim Nicholson on Hearts and Hearts

Just watched Hearts and Minds … anyone else think Jim ‘Twenty-years MEP’ Nicholson was being assisted with cue cards?

It seems strange, he didn’t have much of a clue what was going on. He looked like a virgin candidate, contesting his first election ever.

No offence to the man, but he has been an MEP for twenty years! Where is the knowledge and experience we’ve been promised?

All in all a terrible performance for a so called experienced MEP.

Perhaps it reflects what a waste Europe is. They make 75 percent of our laws and we send such representatives to Brussels to form small coils that oversee the big wheel tick over.

  • politico

    Slightly biased there Andrew. Now if only we could find where you have hidden Diane so that real people and journo’s could ask her questions then we might find out how she would do.

    By the way could you explain the DUP’s position on Europe, before Diane went into hiding she expressed a wish to pull the UK out of Europe.

    Is this still the party policy or have you changed it since last week?

  • Is this what the next 5 weeks are going to be like? Its going to wear a bit thin if you don’t pace yourself with the uupcon bashing.

    as for dodds, you is proudly anti-euro, which is an interesting platform to run on in the european elections.

  • Andrew Charles

    You’d have to ask Diane politico

    She will be on hearts and minds in the coming weeks I suspect.

    Also, I never once mentioned Diane in that post.

    I was simply just reflecting what I thought!

    He lacks something you’d expect to see in an outgoing MEP of 20 years experience.

  • pete whitcroft

    This was an Ok performance by Jim.
    He will not be a puppet or an out and out bigot.
    Or an Irish nationalist, so he’ll scrape thru on transfers from DUP, TUV and Alliance.

  • Andrew Charles

    Pete

    Agree, he’ll scrap through as no. 3.

    Keith

    Sorry for poking holes in the mess that is the UUP-Tory marriage.

    I don’t see it drying up. If its anything to go by the number of comments on the threads posted from the weekend.

  • politico

    Question still is however is the DUP still in favour of us pulling out of the EU?

    Sort of a central issue in an EU election dont you think, I know what Diane’s view is since I was there when she made her views known at a hustings event, I just want to know if that is the party position.

  • pete whitcroft

    politico
    Many unionists are isolationist, but the election is all about the old fight. Will it be 2 prods and 1 catholic or 1 prod and 2 catholics. End of story.

  • Andrew Charles

    politico

    Again you’d have to ask her.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if many supported such a position either, Europe is a joke.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    If Sammy Wilson has to now read from cue cards, we can safely say oralism is dead.

  • Archie Purple

    Diane will be a disaster in Europe…a reject for Stormont in North Belfast, yet thought suitable to be the DUPe flag-bearer in Europe? What a joke….Jim Nicholson maybe not be the world’s greatest communicator, but he is a hard-working, efficient, well thought of MEP who has worked tirelessly within the system that is Europe and done so in a full-time capacity.

    Anyone Unionist who believes that this June 4th poll should be fought on issue that concern Europe, should vote for Nicholson No 1 with Allister No 2. Both Jims work hard whilst the Shinner works only to promote the Sinn Fein agenda.

    Any self-respecting DUPe [if there is such a thing] should wonder why Doddsy’s missus is the candidate…another family dynasty being built to replicate the Paisley and Swish Family Robinson politcal nepotism. Hasn’t Doddsy got enough UK government largesse entering the family bank account without seeking more of the European loot?

  • Silverline

    Shocking performance by Nicholson he can hardly speak so much his slogan on change, I will give him a number two just because he is a Unionist.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Andrew,

    “I wouldn’t be surprised if many supported such a position either, Europe is a joke. ”

    Thats a bit of a wild assertion – it has been supported by successive governments throughout Europe – yours views are in line with fringe right-wing parties plus the right wing of larger ones like the Tories. That in iteslf does not mean you are wrong but illustrates where the weight of political opinion lies.

    It clearly could do with reform but has acted as a credible capitalist alternative to the crazy excesses of unrestrained free marketry as proposed in Post-Thatcherite Britain and the US.

    …and it has provided us with a very enjoyable election to look forward to and something for you to jibber-jabber about.

  • “You’d have to ask Diane politico”

    Why, Charles? Sure, you can see her on Flickr – and on NALIL.

    Which DUP idiot captioned this Flickr photo? Those two bouncers should be well known to all DUPers. One of them is a star turn in a well known American TV cartoon show 😉

  • jj

    Nicholsons perfomance was dreadful. Its just as well that he is only seen once every five years! Also thought it was interesting that he nearly launched an attack on Jim Allister….so much for the UCUNF/TUV alliance!! Also was hilarious that he stated that he was the only unionist able to top the poll!! Based on what?? Jim has ALWAYS relied on DUP transfers to get his seat, this time will be no different.

  • Nicholson sounded like he was watching the football and Thompson was the annoying nephew aksing him questions when he was trying to listen to the commentary….

    terrible

  • Zoon Politikon

    Its time this guy retired. He has been on and enjoyed the EU Gravy Train for too long.

  • Observe

    “Nicholson sounded like he was watching the football and Thompson was the annoying nephew aksing him questions when he was trying to listen to the commentary….”

    I must say that comment made me chuckle.

    I missed the start of his interview last night but from what I did get to see I wasnt overly impressed but it wasnt a disaster that many politically biased minds on slugger have tried to make out. He seemed to struggle the most with questions regarding his new conservative grouping in europe rather than the liberal one he has been in.

    Out of all the unionist candidates he seems to me to be the most genuine friendly sort.

    Allister is the nasty old never never land candidate

    Dodds is Norn Irons very own Sarah Palin

    Parsley is the big headed ambitious new student who lists his CV at any given opportunity.

    Im looking forward to watching a televished hustings on lets talk or similar with all 7 candidates. Wont be much craic trying to chair that meeting.

  • fair_deal

    It still isn’t on Iplayer for pity’s sake

  • A fact which is not really being publicised at the moment is that 7 of the 9 DUP MPs are members of the “Better off out” group; since Mrs Dodds’ husband is included amongst that number probably safe to say she’ll follow the same line:

    http://tinyurl.com/cjk6fb

  • Paul Nicholson

    Andrew – I just listened to Jim’s interview on youtube myself today, and must admit I am very happy to hear you views….

    It really does confirm my view that you are merely spouting venem about the UUP/Cons link up and attacking someone know whos very competently what they are talking about on Europe.

    The DUP fear of the UUP is laughable and I await the results in June…..your bosses really should monitor your stuff to see what the tax payer is forking out for!

    Oh and btw, i will not be indulging in petty squabbles, so pls attach freely!

    priceless

  • ??

    didnt jim nicholson have an affair? if a man cant be faithful to his wife, why should we expect him to be faithful to the electorate?

  • realpolitic

    Nicholson is well regarded in farming circles ,he is a questor in the Eurpoean Parliament and has influence through membership of the large Conservative grouping and with the next government of the UK.His victory will be a shock to the DUP dynasties and can mean real influnce and real change.Change means an end to DUP /Sinn Fein carve-ups and stand offs ,dual mandates,second homes allowances and villas in Florida.This will mean real change; this election is about more than just Europe or a sectarian headcount,there is a real chance of real centrist sensible politics emerging. DUP and Sinn Fein have failed to deal with sectarianism still the scourge of our society as they both thrive on it and will both try to ensure the election is fought on the basis of a sectarian headcount.This time it’s different as they are in government together ,DUP can not claim to smash Sinn Fein and a United Ireland is now further away than ever rendering topping the poll irrelevant with three seats having equal weighting.With the DUP vote divided and with the Dromore effect Conservatives and Unionists can win the first Unionist seat and topple the rotten dynastic edifice of second homes,villas in Florida and the expenses jamboree.

  • Bigger Picture

    Boy you know the UU’s are threatened when all they can do is reply to criticsm with comments like the above.

    All i have heard is personal, and i mean personal, attacks on Diane Dodds(Archie Purple). No defence of Nicholson. Although when you only trawl the fella out every 5 years then i’m not suprised he is a bit rusty.

    Let’s try and see if you can come up with any sensible reason why i should actually vote for Jim Nicholson?

    “The DUP fear of the UUP is laughable ”

    Well, when you consider the DUP haven’t been out voted by the UUP in the last, say 7 or 8 years, i wouldn’t think there is too much of that going on. It’s a bit like the Armagh Orange Order every twelth spouting about how they are the biggest demonstration and have surpassed Belfast…yup every year they say it, we indulge them and then go right back to commentating on the largest parade of the day in Belfast.

    Btw anybody see the SF PPB? I’m gonna phone Gerry Adams up and demand 5 minutes of my life back

  • Andrew

    realpolitic

    ‘an end to dual mandates’

    are you saying that Reg and Michael will resign from either Belfast City Council or the NI Assembly?

    Also what are your thoughts on Fermanagh?

    The UUP caused the by-election only to find egg on their face?

  • Bigger Picture

    Can i also add to those questions what a villa in florida has to do with anything? Is someone trying to say that this property was obtained illegally or through back channels?

    Also will you then assure us that before any UUP candidate stands for Westminster that they will neither be an MLA or a Cllr?

    Why was this not an issue for the UUP when we had David Trimble MP MLA, John Taylor MP MLA and David Burnside MP MLA?

  • ??

    With the DUP vote divided and with the Dromore effect Conservatives and Unionists can win the first Unionist seat and topple the rotten dynastic edifice of second homes,villas in Florida and the expenses jamboree. ………

    with comments like these i hope alban beats nicholson , i could live with the SDLP rather than the obnoxious tories.

  • Bigger Picture,have you not heard the big news story of the day? MP’s and their expenses……………..yes it’s within the rules,but thats all.MP’s have a moral duty to the public interest over and above their own private interest.Do you know of any good office accomodation in Ballymena at twice the market rate???????????

  • Bigger Picture

    But what does a house in florida have to do with that? Is this part of some dodgy dealing? is he claiming this villa in florida as an expense through some allowance? or is it a property that the First Minister has bought with his income?

    Secondly your comment about office accomodation in Ballymena has nothing to do with the issues surrounding Peter Robinson – the subject in the first instance.

    However, in terms of any office costs, they all have to be approved by the relevant legislatures as being reasonable. I am well aware of the Ballymena office in question and i am not against more openness and scrutiny of MP’s expenses or to whom they rent their offices to and if their are any misdealings then they should be dealt with in the appropriate manner.

    Third, the argument was not about MP’s expenses. It was about the Tories high and mighty approach in Northern Ireland. The Tory leader David Cameron, through his representative in NI Reg Empey, has stated that issues of double jobbing etc must be done away with, fair enough. However in trying to raise that the UUP are as guilty as sin in doing the same, and the only reason they are rasing it now handily coincides with their lack of MP’s stinks of hypocrisy. If you want a debate on MP’s expenses by all means email Mick, get yourself registered as a blogger and start one, otherwise try and follow the thread.

    Don’t try and patronise me. If you are coming on to try and score points off of me you are going to have to try alot harder and do alot better than that braveheart.

  • ??

    Sir Reg EMpey was paid over £78,000 last year in the assembly. Peter + Iris both were paid less than Empeys wage

    The UUP are costing twice as much as 2 DUP members.

  • Danny O’Connor

    As far as I can remember ,the DUP were going to milk the European cow and then cut it’s throat,probably around the same time that they were going to smash SF.

  • nineteensixtyseven

    Still not on bloody iPlayer. It took them 3 days to get Stormont Live up.

  • Paul Nicholson

    the interview is on you tube from Pete Baker

  • politico

    Actually when you look at the issues raised by Noel Thompson his focus on the EPP missed the point that such details interest only the political classes.

    What was more interesting was the comparison between Jim in an unscripted interview and the few seconds of Diane in a highly controlled PEB for the DUP’s. In comparing them it was clear that Jim is the better candidate. Clearly the DUP strategy of pulling Diane from as many events as possible and even reducing her coverage in the PEB is about reducing her exposure. At least Jim will engage while the DUP strategy of disengagement asks questions about their concept of openness and transparency.

  • Antrim voter

    At least Jim will engage while the DUP strategy of disengagement asks questions about their concept of openness and transparency.

    posted by politico

    Jim engages once every 5 years diane has been in front of the electorate as an mla and councilor and will be for the next five years

    his performance was appalling

    but ofcourse you would b biased stephen nicholl antrim councillor

  • Bigger Picture

    Politico

    “Clearly the DUP strategy of pulling Diane from as many events as possible and even reducing her coverage in the PEB is about reducing her exposure”

    That is a complete red herring. Elections are not won and lost at hustings events but out and about in the constituencies meeting the public. If as a UUp strategist your thoughts on winning an election amount to thrusting a mike in Nicholson’s face and watch him go,”ah…um…well…you see…stammer, stammer stammer.” then there is no wonder that your party has been such a mess for so long. Or maybe this is proof that this is all the UUP can muster? they don’t even have the people nowadays to amount an effective canvassing campaign across NI?

    And by the way, an unscripted interview? It was flaming hearts and minds! He should have known and been prepared for the types of questions that Noel Thompson was going to ask, he wasn’t caught unaware while out doing his shopping!

    And yes a scripted PEB, that is what they usually are. They don’t go down on the morning and think, “right lads how are we gonna fill these 5 minutes?!”.

  • politico

    oops touched a nerve there did I.

    Why is Diane being pulled from televised events?

  • ??

    oops touched a nerve there did I.

    Why is Diane being pulled from televised events?
    Posted by politico on May 09, 2009 @ 12:25 PM
    …………….

    what television events? and are you aware that the candidates have already held 2 debates together? You not being kept in the loop stephen?

  • Antrim bouy

    politico

    ur talking rubbish

    she’ll b on hearts and minds in the coming weeks

    did they put jimbo on the first one cos hes crap and he hopes people will have forgotten about him by June 4?

    havent seen jim awaywhere she hasnt been apart from the odd debate where he didnt show up

    must been hungover

  • ??

    as jim nicholson is an irrelevance, heres a quote from allister 2004:
    Let me now turn to Ulster’s traditional foe, IRA/Sinn Fein. Make no mistake in this election that is where the real threat comes from. Barbara de Broomstick is our challenger, because for the first time in a Euro election the main nationalist threat comes from Sinn Fein.

    Having subdued the SDLP they now strand poised to attempt their greatest electoral blow. The armalite and ballot box strategy is coming to full fruition. Only the DUP stands in their way. Jim Nicholson and his hopelessly divided Party aren’t going to stop them, that’s for sure. No, it’s down to us.

    Are we up to the challenge? Of course we are. We’re ready, willing, able and eager.

    Terrorism has been raising its ugly head across Europe. We can not let their apologists head the poll in Ulster. It must and will not happen.

    Think for a moment of the worldwide propaganda coup for Sinn Fein if they were permitted by default to top this poll. It would be too late for apathetic Unionists when the TV footage has been beamed around the world of tricolour bedecked black taxis encircling the City Hall, packed with celebrating Provo thugs. No Unionist in this election can afford the luxury of either sitting at home or wasting their first preference vote on someone who never has and never can win.

    Only the DUP can deliver what is required in this election. Only the DUP can thwart Sinn Fein.

  • Zoon Politikon

    Please tell me someone didn’t say the European Elections is all about thwarting Sinn Fein?
    Just for that silly comment about: VOTE PARSLEY! DUP and Sinn Fein really are opposite sides of the same spud.

  • ??

    Jim ALlister as to why we should vote DUP:

    23 April 2004

    Speaking at the opening of Diane Dodd’s new constituency office in West Belfast today, DUP European election candidate Jim Allister QC said, “There is a new sense of confidence in the unionist community. The West Belfast Assembly result epitomised the resurgence of the unionist spirit and itself provided momentum to the Provincewide revival in unionist fortunes.

    Diane Dodd’s fantastic victory was “can do” unionism in action. Sinn Fein’s goal of capturing 5 seats in West Belfast was stopped in its tracks by the mobilisation and unity of purpose of a unionist people determined to be heard. Now unionists in West Belfast, who for years had to endure republican misrepresentation, have an authentic voice and can hold their heads high. This new constituency office demonstrates that they have also the benefit of an Assembly Member committed to working on their behalf.

    In the European election we can again put Sinn Fein in its place. Their ambition is to top this poll and then strut the world stage claiming to be the voice of Ulster. Unionist voters must not let that happen. Unionism speaks for Ulster, not republicanism. Hence, a unionist must top this poll. Just as the DUP, as the strongest party, led the unionist vote in West Belfast, so we will again lead unionism to the top of the Euro poll”.

  • Turgon

    ??
    If Sinn Fein are so terrible why are the DUP putting them at the top of government?

  • ??

    Turgon i think you`ll find the nationalist electorate did that. Are you suggesting that Unionists should also pull out of local councils. The principle is exactly the same.

  • fair_deal

    Now seen it on youtube (Cheers pete BBC get it bloody sorted would you please).

    Note to Noel Thompson and Jim Nicholson, there has been no such country as Czechoslovakia for 16 years. This should be even more obvious right now because it is the Czech republic that presently holds the EU Presidency.
    http://www.eu2009.cz/en/czech-presidency/czech-presidency-4014/

    As regards Jim’s performance his usual bluff and vagueness as demonstrated with the change question (not very good when it is a central theme of his campaign). Such perfromances haven’t enthused the electorate in the past so I can’t see how a fifth bash at it will be any different in outcome.

    I thought he was particularly sensitive around who his colleagues in the new Cameron-inspired parliamentary grouping might be.

  • politico

    maybe some of the DUP posters could tell us if the dup are advocating an immediate pull out from the EU

  • Reader

    STEPHEN

    we all know Jim nicholson advocates integration

    that keeps him in a job

  • Braveheart

    Bigger Picture,don’t be getting cross like “Mr Angry” the First Minister when he’s questioned about expenses!He’s clearly very uncomfortable about this subject……………..and yes the big connection is……………..wait for it…………..they are all in the same party.

    They don’t like being questioned by their flock,something they have in common with their partners in government,Sinn Fein.Both are bullies,not democrats.

    We are the “Confident Unionists”.

  • Braveheart

    Bigger Picture,don’t be getting cross like “Mr Angry” the First Minister when he’s questioned about expenses!He’s clearly very uncomfortable about this subject……………..and yes the big connection is……………..wait for it…………..they are all in the same party.

    They don’t like being questioned by their flock,something they have in common with their partners in government,Sinn Fein.Both are bullies,not democrats.

    We are the “Confident Unionists”.

  • oneill

    Politico,

    “maybe some of the DUP posters could tell us if the dup are advocating an immediate pull out from the EU”

    You haven’t been paying attention, check comment 19 on this thread;)

    7 out of 9 of the DUP MPs are members of the “Better off out” grouping which advocates the UK leaving the EU:

    http://tinyurl.com/qa4hv8

  • ??

    We are the “Confident Unionists”.
    Posted by Braveheart on May 09, 2009 @ 05:28 PM…….

    is that why danny kennedy is offended by the playing of the irish national anthem in Newry or the fact he belives their will be a united ireland by 2016… hes confident all right, in Sinn Fein

  • Turgon

    ??,
    You say Danny Kennedy is “hes confident all right, in Sinn Fein”

    Your party also at times seems confident in Martin McGuinness such as when he calls the dissidents traitors. When did you start believing what republicans say? Was it when Conor Murphy said the IRA did not murder Paul Quinn?

  • ??

    Turgon if you or your leader have evidence that the IRA murdered Paul Quinn then please go to the police.

    And if you dont realise or understand the significance of McGunness` words then god help us. Maybe you can tell us how you are going to have a goverment here that does not involve the largest nationalist/republican party?

  • Turgon

    ??,
    Oh so you believe McGuinness do you? I suppose you believe that he was only briefly in the IRA as well do you?

  • ??

    Turgon you obviously dont mix with many people in the nationalist/republican community..i suggest you do and ask them about the effect of McGuinness` words.

    And what proof have you of IRA involvement in Quinns murder?

  • ??

    Turgon i am curious now, given you dodged the question, what is your partys policy of forming a government here in NI that doesnt involve the largest nationalist/republican party?

  • Turgon

    ??

    Yes I am sure you do believe Martin McGuinness. Tell me the Darkley murders, I suppose the IRA was not involved? I suppose the Kingsmill massacre had nothing to do with them? I guess Enniskillen was caused by the army by mistake? The Northern Bank raid was actually done by Martians as it?

    That is the problem ?? the republican movement say what they feel they need to when they feel the need to. Once upon a time the DUP refused to accept the word of republicans. Now, when it is convenient you believe what he says. Here is a quote from none other than your previous party leader in Hansard:

    “We have established that Martin McGuinness was to all effects leading the IRA army council and was busy in Londonderry. Members should know for what type of people they are proposing to bend the rules. One of the saddest calamities in Londonderry was the death of Frank Hegarty, who was murdered on the instructions of Mr. McGuinness. Mr. Hegarty had worked for military intelligence and knew where some of the IRA’s most important arms and explosives were hidden in the Irish Republic. When the Irish police raided them the Army, fearing that Mr. Hegarty’s cover would be blown, pushed him away to England. Mr. McGuinness then arrived on the doorstep of Rose Hegarty, and told her that he wanted to talk about her son and how he could return.

    18 Dec 2001 : Column 225

    Twice a week for 13 weeks, Mr. McGuinness dropped by, the family met him and they drank tea together. He assured the mother, Rose, that if Frank came home, he could sort the matter out and all would be well; a firm assurance for a mother’s heart torn about her son. She persuaded her boy to come home. A rendezvous was arranged by Mr. McGuinness; afterwards the body was found in a roadway in Tyrone, a bullet through the head. That is in the public domain. Many journalists, both Protestant and Roman Catholic, have written moving stories about that murder.”

    And now, when it suits your position you tell us we should believe what Martin McGuinness says. If he was involved in breaking the sixth commandment why should he worry about the ninth?

  • ??

    Turgon you are the one saying the IRA murdered quinn, have you proof yes or no?

    Please go to the police if you have.

    And please answer the other questions too.

  • ??

    Turgon heres one for you and the rest of the “Christians” in the TUV: stop making false accusations and spreading vicious rumors! – Isaiah 58:9

  • Turgon

    ??,
    Actually the quote in 6 above is not from me it is from Hansard, the official House of Commons report and the comments in italics are from Rev Dr Ian Paisley. Are you accusing him of false accusations and spreading rumours?

  • the joxer

    ‘Tell me the Darkley murders, I suppose the IRA was not involved?

    Wasn’t that the INLA, Turgon?

  • ??

    Turgon this is about you and your accusatins that the IRA murdered Quinn, have you proof yes or no?

    ANd please answer the other questions.

  • New Blue

    Turgon and ??

    May I take this opportunity to thank you for showing everyone just why the partnership between UUP and Conservatives is the only real option for Unionists to vote for.

    Your wonderful posts should be used to highlight where the ‘union’ in Unionism currently rests.

    Thanks again

  • ??

    new blue the tories allowed armed sinn fein into government on 3 occasions so please never talk to me agian

    thanksx

  • Driftwood

    I thought this quote from Brian O Driscoll, meeting the Queen this weekend:
    “And to have the Sovereign of Northern Ireland to come over, the queen, and give us her time was great too.

    “I think the players from the Republic understand that meeting the queen means as much to the northern players, as it does to the southern players when they meet Mary McAleese.

    “It’s a reciprocation and an understanding and it’s another opportunity to be patted on the back, so that can’t be a bad thing.”

    Sinn Fein deputy leader Martin McGuinness boycotted the celebration at Hillsborough because he said it was a British government-sponsored event.

    shows up the spitefulness of SF and their DUP partners at Stormont.

    Brian O Driscoll probably typifies the attitude of decent people in the Republic in the same way that Jim Nicholson and David Cameron do in this part of the United Kingdom.

  • ?

    The UUP and Tories have always been the friends of terrorists when in power.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Driftwood,

    I think Drizza went about as far he could with “so that can’t be a bad thing”. But it was really good to see “reciprocation and an understanding ” as rugby is an excellent example of all island co-operation(but it is disappointing that the Irish National anthem is still played at home games). Was Mary Mac there as well?

    Regarding Marty meeting Queenie? thats a trickey one and on balance he was probably right to give it a miss – I dont think the Royals have earned that honour – yet – but she probably appreciates that Marty led an insurrection that fought ‘her’ troops to a stalemate and it would be nice to hear her saying as much – that would help pave the way for a meeeting.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Braveheart, yeah of course the UUP are the confident unionists. That’s why you got yourself into that desperate shotgun marriage with the Tories.

    Turgon, whenever I bring up stuff that unionists did years ago you criticize me for digging up the past. And here you are doing it yourself. What’s it going to be ? Should things that occurred 20 years ago be counted, or not ?

  • Comrade Stalin

    but she probably appreciates that Marty led an insurrection that fought ‘her’ troops to a stalemate and it would be nice to hear her saying as much – that would help pave the way for a meeeting.

    How was it a stalemate given that the IRA were defeated and disarmed ?

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    If you call getting into governmnet and getting all your prisoners out of jail and getting the GFA force fed to Unionists a ‘defeat’ – then that’s some pretty impressive Unionist spin you’ve got yourself there.

  • Turgon

    ??,
    I personally have no proof the IRA murdered Paul Quinn. However, it has been stated in the Dail and in Stormont. Even your party seems to have accepted a linkage though they have used weasel words like “Not corporately responsible.” The Quinn family have also claimed the IRA murdered their son. So maybe you believe the IRA and disbelieve all these people I do not know?

    Turning to the issue of nationalists in government. I have no problem with power sharing with voluntary coalition. That is also your party’s position. Your own position seems somewhat different. You seem to say that power sharing must include SF as the biggest nationalist / republican party. I would be surprised if Mr. Robinson who is advocating voluntary coalition will also agree that that must include SF. Or maybe you know something we do not?

    As to policing and justice being acceptable. The point is that it is acceptable to most nationalists and unionists as it is now. The only group who seem to have a huge problem with the status quo seem to be the SF leadership. Are you saying that you believe we need to accommodate the SF leadership’s view?

    Your problem seems to be that you are beyond even your party’s position.

  • ??

    The Quinn family have also claimed the IRA murdered their son. So maybe you believe the IRA and disbelieve all these people I do not know?

    they also deny their son was a criminal yet others say differently…see thats why we need proof.

    The point is that it is acceptable to most nationalists and unionists as it is now.

    and your evidence for that is what… how many nationalists/republicans do you actually know turgon 1,,2 , 3??

  • ??

    Are you saying that you believe we need to accommodate the SF leadership’s view?…

    as the largest nationalist party , yes just as the DUPs view has to be accommodated and why the TUV will be ignored because they represent no one.

  • ??

    Your own position seems somewhat different. You seem to say that power sharing must include SF as the biggest nationalist / republican party.
    …..

    turgon there is no mechanism for voluntary government – so what type of government is the TUV going to give us. Please explain, even go as JIm see if he knows.

    and if you think you will get a voluntary government WITHOUT sharing power with the largest nationalist party (ie sf) then you are either deranged or lying to yourself and others.

  • Turgon

    ??,

    Here is Irish Robinson advocating voluntary coalition in the Commons. Here is Mervyn Storey advocating the same thing.

    As to how many nationalists / republicans I know. It is rather difficult to live in West Fermanagh and not know rather a lot of them. You need to understand that out here we try to avoid discussion of politics. However, I do believe that most do not support murder and I suspect many even those who vote SF have pretty ambivalent views about their politicians.

  • ??

    Turgon please answer the question what government are you going to give us that does not involve Sinn Fein

  • Turgon

    ??
    Forgot to say. The people who claim that Paul Quinn was a criminal are those like Conor Murphy. So you accept his word over other people’s? I suppose you must because he went to the IRA and asked them if they murdered Paul Quinn and then he told us they said no. Tell me do you believe in the tooth fairy as well?

  • Turgon

    ??
    Sorry posts crossed. I am advocating a voluntary coalition which is what Iris Robinson and Mervyn Storey are advocating (try reading the links). My difference with them is that I do not believe it is possible within the current system due to the mutual vetoes. As such I believe we need to end the current system and negotiate a more useful replacement. Essentially my position is exactly that of the DUP’s prior to them going into government with SF. It is remarkably close to that of the last DUP manifesto.

    The problem is that the DUP’s tactics were a bit problematic at St Andrews (the nonsense about Paisley junior etc.) and in addition it is my contention that the DUP strategy is utterly flawed.

  • ??

    Turgon more than conor murphy say he is a criminal , he was into fuel smuggling if you beleive reports and that is what got him killed. but of course who needs evidence just Turgons kangeroo court will do

    and what government will you give us that does not involve sinn fein.

  • ?

    I am advocating a voluntary coalition which is what Iris Robinson and Mervyn Storey are advocating (try reading the links).

    Voluntary coalition is not available at the moment that is why we are in the situation we are. So what government are you going to offer us that does not include Sinn fein.

  • Driftwood

    Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit
    Still nice to hear a decent guy from the Irish Republic state the truth about sovereingty, and how there are 2 countries on this island. 1 ruled by Queen Elizabeth 2 (of whom you are a subject). And the other under the nominal rule of (another of Her Majesty’s subjects) Mary McAleese.
    The BRITISH Isles writ looms large.
    Oh and have a look at the Lion badge on the British (and Irish)Lions shirt. Looks familiar to the one on the Royal ensign..and the English Football and Cricket emblems, doncha think?
    Brian O Driscoll and most decent southerners still know whose Boss cat.

  • ??

    Turgon basically what you are offering is a return to direct rule which means water charges, end to academic selection, irish language act and Number 10 open door policy to sinn fein…well done turgon . when will jim be putting this out, will it be in his PEB?

  • Turgon

    ??,
    No I am advocating DUP policy prior to them deciding to grab power for themselves. My long term goals also seems to be closer to the current DUP position (as shown by Iris Robinson and Mervyn Storey) than your position which seems to be that you believe that in all circumstances the DUP should share power with Sinn Fein. Tell me do you advocate such a position at DUP meetings? For your political future’s sake I do hope not.

  • Your party also at times seems confident in Martin McGuinness such as when he calls the dissidents traitors.

    Turgon, are you really so wrapped up in your paranoid worldview that you can’t see what a monumental step that was for McGuinness to take? What it does in terms moving us towards a society where political violence is a thing of the past and where everyone – including paranoid members of the Prodiban – can think and say what they believe without fearing a battered-in door in the middle of the night? And, indeed, what personal risk McGuinness ran in saying it (living as he does in inner-city Derry aka Dissident Central)?

    If that’s what you really think, and it isn’t just some pre-election propaganda, then I feel very sorry for you. And, saying something I feel is very risky and maybe ungentlemanly, if you have so little belief in the possibility of transformation then I don’t know how what sort of Christianity you’re going to into church tomorrow morning and profess because it isn’t anything I recognise from reading the bible.

    Back in the day when decommissioning was a live issue – something which I always believed was and still believe to have been instrumental in creating a peaceful society here – Republicans used to you argue with me that it didn’t matter what they did, if they wrapped their guns up in a neat package, left them outside Castlereagh and pinned a note swearing allegiance to the Queen on to it, it still wouldn’t matter as far as many Unionists were concerned. And as far as you and the TUV are involved, they were right.

    Just what sort of system of government is it that you and the TUV want to have here? Every time your concerns are dealt with you just move the goalposts. Because Unionist parties running on a platform of majority rule wouldn’t actually secure a majority of votes or seats in Northern Ireland any more. Are you just going to rant and rave as history passes you by and hope to stick a few branches through the wheels as it passes?

  • Turgon

    Sammy Morse,
    That is pretty ungentlemanly and I would counsel you “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again”. Matthew 7: 1-2.M

    You will note that I have never objected to anyone’s claim of personal Christianity or faith on this site. I may disagree with their religious position and I may feel that in the Grace of God I am correct. However, I will not tell anyone else how the Holy Spirit speaks in their life. To do that is to place myself in the place of Christ and be in grave danger of being anti-Christ.

    As to McGuinness’s comments: I think they were what he felt he needed to say at the time to keep the show on the road and keep McGuinness in power. I also suspect that he sees any rejection of his position as a betrayal of the republican cause. I think he sees SF and indeed his personal position and the correct path for republicans as synonymous. He has never shown much in the way of democratic tendencies.

    As to my views on the system of government. Leave aside the issue of the TUV’s position. I personally do not believe that unrepentant terrorists should be in government: not loyalists or republicans. I would go so far as to say that in my view people convicted of serious crimes of a political nature should not be in government.

    I do not mind how anyone else feels on this. If the majority want it that is fine by them. All I can say is that I wish to vote and argue against having terrorists in government. This election is in part a test of that. If the TUV are annihilated, I will continue to believe that this is a mistaken position and will probably continue to argue this on slugger (if Mick keeps me on). However if I do not get what I want I will not threaten any form of violence to stop it.

  • Turgon

    Sammy,
    In addition I have never advocated majority rule on this site. I have always advocated power sharing. However, I believe in voluntary coalition. If unionists want to share power with SF that is fine. All I am saying is that if I was in a position of political power (a position I do not seek) I would not share power with them.

  • Turgon

    Sorry finished before I meant to.

    That might well result in me having no power: that is fine.

  • Driftwood

    Direct Rule under David Cameron will be just fine.
    If the DUP and SF don’t like it, take it up with him. I hope he tells them to piss off.
    It’s called parliamentary democracy. And Westminster rules the UK. Including NI.
    Simple really.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Driftwood,

    “Brian O Driscoll and most decent southerners still know whose Boss cat.”

    Jeez. Thats some leap – dont mix up politness with ideology.

    ??

    What I love about DUP policy is that they tell the NOW anti-agreement Unionists that if they dont keep SF in power the Englezes will cheat on them with the papish harlot from down South. So much for putting up a good fight for Uninoism. lol

    Turgon and the TUV, although I disagree with them have been consistent – no “murderers” ( as they would see it) in government – whilst the DUP have (admirably in my opinion) move on.

    The problem for both SF and the DUP is that having left their differing positions of principle those who still hold those principles are understandbly quite keen to point out what can appear like a movment of convienence that happens to facilitate them power.

    Turgon, has always made a point of arguing against ALL violence on Slugger, something the more mainstream parties and particularly the DUP have not been quite so clear about as they themselves have flirted with various loyalist groupings,

    Turgon/TUV’s position is unlikely to yield results – and I personally expect (and hope) the TUV to get less than 20,000 euro votes which may finish Jimbo and the TUV as an electoral force but I cant help having a grudging respect for those who have seen what they view as their corner of the world destroyed and who refuse to agree to those that destroyed it being rewarded whilst continuing to advocate politics and peaceful means.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Drifters,

    “Direct Rule under David Cameron will be just fine.
    If the DUP and SF don’t like it, take it up with him. I hope he tells them to piss off.
    It’s called parliamentary democracy. And Westminster rules the UK. Including NI.
    Simple really. ”

    Under the terms of the GFA ROI consent will be required for that carry-on – it will not be avialable.

  • ??

    My long term goals also seems to be closer to the current DUP position………

    yes but what about NOW turgon tell us. what would you replace stormont with NOW…direct rule is all you can offer.

    No thanks

    Direct Rule under David Cameron will be just fine.,,,,

    yeah thats what they said about thatcher.

  • realpolitic

    Let’s get back to the subject of this thread Jim Nicholson and Hearts and Minds.
    I have just noticed the minimized lion on the posters of MrsDodds of that new dynastic
    Ilke.The DUP lion is hardly noticeable this
    election.Has it
    lost its roar?We look forward to Mrs Doods appearing on Hearts and Minds and to
    hear how she is going to smash Sinn Fein while sitting in government with them.As DUP vote is so badly split in this election they can not top the poll.

  • Driftwood

    Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit
    The GFA has been superceded at St andrews. No big deal. Westminster can absolve any of this shit because that’s where power lies. The RoI govt has only an advisory role at best.
    David Cameron can walk all over the GFA/St AAA and nobody can stop him because the rule of law in NI resides completely at Westminster.
    I’d love to see Brian Cowen tell the MoD what regiments can be based in NI. eg If he said the Royal Gurkha Rifles shouldn’t be based at Ballykinler, our Defence secretary has no obligation to reply, other than to tell him to fuck off. Northern Ireland is subject to British rule full stop.
    SF signed up to BRITISH rule in NI. if you think differently, I suggest you visit Thiepval or Palace Barracks. Or ask your SF MLA at Stormont about foreign policy. BOSS cat.
    Now go to bed, after all, Arsenal v Chelsea coming up.

  • The GFA has been superceded at St andrews. No big deal. Westminster can absolve any of this shit because that’s where power lies. The RoI govt has only an advisory role at best.
    David Cameron can walk all over the GFA/St AAA and nobody can stop him because the rule of law in NI resides completely at Westminster.

    We’re now coming to the nub of the problem with the whole UCUNF project – completely ignorance of the realities of the ‘facts on the ground’ in Northern Ireland.

  • ??

    David Cameron can walk all over the GFA/St AAA and nobody can stop him because the rule of law in NI resides completely at Westminster.
    …….

    no he cant, dont you listen to your leader. he says he will respect all international agreements in relation to the GFA.. do pay attention

  • New Blue

    Sammy

    If I thought for one second that the UUP position was anything like Driftwood paints it to be I would not be able to be part of it.

    Thankfuly, I have heard nothing that sounds remotely like this coming from ANY part of the partnership.

    Democracy must play before all else, even ahead of my personal Unionist views, and I would point to Comments made by both UUP and Conservatives which highlights that the GFA model for self-determination is recognised and accepted.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    New Blue,

    well said.

  • ken

    What is Jeffrey Donaldson doing as Diane Dodds Director of election? She, as a Belfast City Councillor voted to shaft the John Lewis application costing the ratepayers of Lagan Valley millions of pounds in lost rates. Clearly Jeffrey is prepared to shaft the people of Lisburn in order to curry favour with Peter. He is only a blow in from South Down and this move shows that his only priority is not the constituents of lagan Valley but Jeffrey Donaldson himself. No one with any loyalty to the area should entertain a vote for Dodds who is seeking to form a new millionaire family dynasty. You do not have to look to the labour party for people ransacking the taxpayer when you have the DUP here.

  • Bigger Picture

    Braveheart,

    What does your comment actually mean? You haven’t answered any of my questions, try answering them please. Your confidence cannot be very high when you avoid the question

  • Pigeon Toes

    “more than conor murphy say he is a criminal , he was into fuel smuggling if you beleive reports and that is what got him killed. but of course who needs evidence just … kangeroo court will do”

    ?? Obviously