“It was, and is, a dead end.”

Mick’s collection of quotes at Brassneck should provide food for thought for some. While Sinn Féin’s Gerry Adams is placing the “onus on the British government and the PSNI to resist any temptation or any demands for a return to the bad practices of the past”, WorldbyStorm has a select choice of what has been said in the Irish Seanad. Meanwhile Gardaí are reported to be increasing policing along the border and “intensifying intelligence-gathering operations against known and suspect dissidents”. Then there’s Sinn Féin Councillor Killian Forde’s suggestion, after claiming the murder of Police Constable Stephen Carrol was “quite different from the killing of the British soldiers”, that “They [the British Government] also need to remove all British army personnel, including those garrisoned in the six counties, back to Britain.” Hmm.. Speaking of legacy issues for Sinn Féin, as I had been in this previous post, Deaglán De Breaduin’s comment that “We may well be in for a re-run of the IRA campaign of the 1950s..” is notable because we already know what Gerry Adams thinks has said of that particular episode – “They kept faith with the republican past and they ensured the future of our struggle..”Worth another link to yesterday’s Irish Times editorial

Above all, though, there is the challenge of ridding Irish culture of the last vestiges of the sneaking regard for their crude ideology and the murderous methods that flow from it. A part of the price that has been paid for the peace process, and for bringing paramilitary killers in from the cold, has been a reluctance to challenge too strongly the notion that violence was ultimately vindicated. We must acknowledge that paramilitarism achieved nothing for the Irish people over 30 years except blood and tears. It was, and is, a dead end. Those who would revive it must be treated by everyone, of every political persuasion, for what they are: the enemies of democracy, decency and Ireland.

As I said, legacy issues..

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  • Dylan

    Another good way to rid “Irish culture of the last vestiges of the sneaking regard for their crude ideology and the murderous methods that flow from it” would be to address the root causes of terrorism. There are undoubtedly people in republican circles who have been radicalised or disillusioned by the failure to force loyalist decommissioning in any serious way. Criticising S.F at the moment only puts needless pressure on a party who have done more than any other to insure peace. Meanwhile the U.V.F/U.D.A et all retain their weapons and ,lets not forget, have been responsible for many murders post-ceasefire. The continued existence of these armed groups surely gives dissident republicans the excuse they need to operate.

  • Sinn Féin’s Gerry Adams is placing the “onus on the British government and the PSNI to resist any temptation or any demands for a return to the bad practices of the past”,

    Gerry Adams own bad practices seem to go unnoticed and unsaid. What about some Christianity in relation to them. Repentance might be appropriate even if it comes in the form of an acceptance that republican violence of the past failed and could only fail.

    Gerry Adams is trying to have it both ways, glorifying his violence as free from bad practices while stating that dissident violence is “wrong and counterproductive”.

    He is clearly speaking with a forked tongue. Clearly he is morally flawed and his rejection of the ways of Christianity make it clear that he prefers the Antichristian camp.

    The only road to unity of this island is paved with Christian bricks, and clearly Gerry Adams remains an impediment to that unity, more so even than the dissidents.

  • pól

    I for one am sick of all this “Christianity” rubbish. It’s about time people stopped using the term as a weapon.

  • Pol

    How about, “it’s about time we tried Christianity.”

    I know Christianity makes you feel uncomfortable but that’s it is very simple really. “Love your enemies” sums up Gerry Adams rejection of Christ during the Troubles and he has never said that such a rejection was wrong. So why don’t you say it?

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Hoepfully we can move cooperation between the 2 police forces to include joint patrols and operations against the dissidents. This is already allowed for in existing legislation.

    RE. The Irish Times
    “We must acknowledge that paramilitarism achieved nothing for the Irish people over 30 years except blood and tears”

    Why not to be consistent did they not say the last 100 years?

    But we cant let that cosy ‘free state’ line just sit there without adding that British policy which firstly tried to prop up the rotten Stormont system regime and then tried and failed to criminalise republican resistance to that policy bears a large share of repsonsibility for the ensuing violence before both sides admitted the error of their ways as reflected in the GFA.

  • ABC

    Killian Forde – further living proof of the sort of morons that Sinn Fein has running things in the Republic. All misty-eyed and hard-line, when they never had to live here for 35 years.

  • Sammy

    both sides admitted the error of their ways as reflected in the GFA.

    You’re joking, aren’t you?

    I’m clear that there was no repentance only the glorification of violence – because – well, basically because we might need the psychopaths again.

    Republicans (and the British) have just got to stop lying.

  • pól

    [i]Pol

    How about, “it’s about time we tried Christianity.”

    I know Christianity makes you feel uncomfortable but that’s it is very simple really. “Love your enemies” sums up Gerry Adams rejection of Christ during the Troubles and he has never said that such a rejection was wrong. So why don’t you say it? [/i]

    How about “it’s about time we tried to get along with each other.”

    There is no need to bring religion into this at all. And if you are so wrapped up in the words of men writting 2000 years ago, why don’t you love your neighbour (Gerry) as yourself? Or just forgive Adams and co for their past indiscretions?

    I’m no provo or shinner, so I won’t be making any apologies for the actions of either party.

  • Paul

    John you are cycling very fast between personalities might I sugest a trip to the doc’s to adjust your medication

  • Paul

    John you are cycling very fast between personalities might I sugest a trip to the doc’s to adjust your medication

    Is that the best you can do?

  • Pol

    And if you are so wrapped up in the words of men writting 2000 years ago, why don’t you love your neighbour (Gerry) as yourself? Or just forgive Adams and co for their past indiscretions?

    Without a genuine declaration that his past was evil, and his present commitment to peace delusional, Gerry Adams remains the most dangerous man alive in the North today. I consider him largely responsible for the deaths of the three men this week.

    And pardon me for believing that the words of Jesus Christ are of infinitely greater value than those of Gerry Adams, the ultimate Antichristian.

  • Paul

    Sorry John if you think I was just insulting you I was being serious, you are cycling by the hour from religous nu to wannabe politician and with what you have said before I thought maybe a kind word would be enough

  • Paul, took you long enough to think that up. Now grow up.

  • Earnan

    You better listen to him. He’s the messiah

  • ABC – you’d be the first person to ever call me hardline!

    I presume you didn’t link into my original post – the point of which is that, and leaving the politics of them aside, having 5,000 troops garisioned, serves no purpose. None. They only act as a useful optic for dissidents to point at and conveniently target. They serve no purpose on the Island.

    The answer to the events of last week lies with only domestic actors. Any other response will be counterproductive.

  • Uriop

    The answer to the events of last week lies with only domestic actors. Any other response will be counterproductive.

    Where Mr Quinsey and Mr Azimkar much less “domestic actors” than Hugh Orde is? Or the Polish delivery man?

    There is some probably they were deliberately selected because of their likelihood of being not from Northern Ireland.

  • Earnan

    You better listen to him. He’s the messiah

    Thanks, my friend. For your faith you will be rewarded in heaven.

    As to people who refer to Pennyburn Chapel and guilt trips, hell is for them to be stuck with Martin McGuinness for all eternity listening to him repeat those pathetic words “traitors to Ireland”. Good luck to you, boys.

  • “Those who would revive it [paramilitarism] must be treated by everyone, of every political persuasion, for what they are: the enemies of democracy, decency and Ireland.”

    The Irish president endorsed paramilitarism in the fairly recent past.

  • ABC

    Killian Forde

    People like you take away from the positivity of what MGuinness actually did. You should be ashamed of yourself. Take of your “brits out” blinkers. Three men are dead – murdered by people who not so long ago would have supported your party.

  • “the positivity of what MGuinness actually did”

    Meanwhile in LA:

    Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness receive film star reception on US trade trip

    Guests, including the Northern Irish actor Kenneth Branagh and American comedy stars, drank Californian wine and Irish ale as they awaited the arrival of the guests of honour. The food was custom designed for the homesick Brit: mini-Yorkshire puddings, lamb chops and mini-roast potato canapés. ..

    The arrival of Mr McGuinness, a former leader in the Provisional IRA, in the back of a massive, chrome-rimmed, tinted-windowed Cadillac Escalade SUV – the kind favoured by rappers such as 50 Cent – bordered on the comic. ..

    A few minutes later, Mr McGuinness told the guests: “I still believe we’re now in charge of one of the most successful peace processes in the world today.”

    He then became distracted by a celebrity in the crowd – the sitcom star Patricia Heaton. “I’ve been a big fan for many years of Everybody Loves Raymond,” the ex-IRA man gushed uncharacteristically.

    Then, to laughter, he added: “I’m really baring my soul here tonight.”

  • ABC – if you could put your faux moral outrage aside for a second and answer this question.

    Did you read my post in full and if so what do you disagree with?

  • ABC

    There’s nothing faux about my moral outrage, let me assure you. You obviously have chosen to take your lead from miserable begrudging statement that Gerry Adams gave rather than the more positive and unequiovacal comments of Martin McGuinness.

    Almost everyone in Northern Ireland wants these scum taken on and crushed, if that means using the army, then so be it.

    Thus far, Sir Hugh Orde has said that he doesn’t need the army for anything other than inteeligence gathering, the second he says he needs more, he gets my support. I’d sooner trust him and do what he wants than some oily Dublin Shinner who never had to live through what we went through here.

  • Paz

    Just checked out the link to the Senate debates, where I was not surprised at reading the comments by Eoghan Harris. He has unashamedly used these murders to once again argue, not only against SF, but for a cultural Berlin wall around the border. When even the worst of NI’s old enemies have found the need to speak with one voice this old bigoted sickie can’t help himself.

    PS. In case you’re wondering; do not, have not, will not support SF

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]The continued existence of these armed groups surely gives dissident republicans the excuse they need to operate.[i/]”

    Dylan, is this the excuse you’d like to move forward with?

    The reality is, these attacks by dissidents gives legitimacy for loyalist paramilitaries to hold onto illegal weapons.

  • UMH

    [/i] fixed

  • This week’s murders of two soldiers and one police officer have rocked the people of Ireland to the core. These despicable acts were carried out by people claiming to be Irish Republicans. Republicanism is about acting in the interests of the people of Ireland. These people are acting against the people of Ireland who voted in huge numbers for the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. They need to be caught and locked up.

    The strong condemnation from Martin McGuinness and other Sinn Fein leaders is very welcome and must be commended. They have said that the murders were ‘wrong and counter productive’. They are right, these murders were wrong and counter productive. The murders of thousands of people including soldiers and policeman before the second IRA ceasefire in 1996 were also wrong and counter productive.

    Until Sinn Fein admit that their 25 year campaign of violence was wrong and counter productive then they will have no credibility in telling dissident organisations that they are wrong. Like these new groups the Provisional IRA acted without a mandate and against the wishes of the Irish people. The IRA eventually realised that their campaign was counter productive but they have yet to admit that it was wrong.

    It is our duty as public representatives to persuade those young people who are drawn to dissident groups that the road of violence can only lead to misery and disappointment. They need to be convinced that the unification of the country will never be brought about with guns and bombs. In order to do this we need to be honest. How can Sinn Fein seriously convince these young people of the futility of war when they constantly celebrate their own war. All week we have listened to Sinn Fein representatives talking about how IRA murders were right but dissident murders are wrong. This position is completely untenable.

    Young people can see how ridiculous Sinn Fein’s position is. In order to convince these young people that the dissidents have nothing to offer Sinn Fein need to admit that the Provisional IRA’s campaign was wrong.

  • Alan – Newtownards

    Colum
    Absolutely spot on. These vile deeds need to be condemned by every right thinking citizen of this island. I really cannot understand what drives a person to murder someone in cold blood. How can they live with themselves.

    While it is good that “mainstream” republicans are opposed to what has happened, I know that there are many people in Northern Ireland who believe that they are being hyprocritical as they supported the murder of many good people in the past.

    I drove past a guy recently in Newtownards where I live and who I would have been friendly with about in the late seventies. He was in the womb when his policeman father was murdered by the then “mainstream” I.R.A. in the 1950’s. His mother who never remarried and who is now quite elderly, told me back then that every night she went to bed she thought of her dead husband. Fifty years later she probably still thinks of him. She has never got over his death. I know that this is inmaterial but I would like to add that they are also a catholic family and really decent people.

    I’m sure that there are many widow’s and widowers in N.I. who will never remarry and will carry their memories of their beloved partner to the grave. What memories will the murderers carry to their graves.

  • Well said, Colum.

  • Lenny Deans

    I have been reading through the blogs on sluggers site, and i feel i have to comment. A lot of the blogs have deeply distrubed me,ie, “David Dee”.
    However, I praise and endorse the comments made by
    “colum” and “allan”. it is nice to read a bit of common sense on the subjects raised, especaily by allan, who like myself have seen the suffering caused on behalf of the ’cause. the fact of the matter is, no matter how strong and passionate your/mine politicial veiws are, there is no justification in killing someone.
    I cannot understand the point of bringing up “injustuse’s from the past”. we are talking about things that happened in the past,(by all factions) which , no matter how much we talk about them-rightly or wrongly, does not, in reallity help us-all to move on. I thought when the GFA was agreed by all, We had got out of the trenches and moved on for the betterment of peace,or was that just me?

  • Jamesy

    There will always be fanatical extremists emerging from the ideologies of Irish Nationalism. BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN (article 2) still continues to refer to the Irish Nation as the ‘island of Ireland which includes its islands and seas’. The territorial aspect wasn’t removed, electoral consent was added. Essentially nothing has changed.

    BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN shows a selfish interest in ruling over the territory of N.Ireland prior to a future vote on Northern Ireland’s status. In article 3 it says ‘It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland’

    How can this be justified? There would be uproar throughout Europe if Strasbourg used preemptively claiming territory over the European continent and it’s islands.

  • Jamesy

    reprased that last sentence:

    “There would be uproar throughout Europe if Strasbourg preemptively claimed territory over the European continent and it’s islands.”